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                    <text>Transcript of Oral History Interview
Conducted for University of Maryland IMMR 400 – Spring 2022
Instructor: Dr. Robert Chiles
Interviewer’s Name: Diego Plazas
Interviewee’s Name: Bertha Jeannette Gasca
Interviewee’s Country of Origin: Columbia
Interviewee’s Current Residence: Maryland
Date of Interview: March 11, 2022
Place of Interview: Maryland
Introduction: This interview between Diego Plazas and Jeannette Gasca discusses Jeannette’s
experience immigration from Columbia to the US in the 90s amidst a civil war. Jeannette talks
about her career path and how she had to change careers due to the language barrier in the US.
Jeannette also talks about life in Columbia when she was a child and what Columbia is like for
her family still there now. Jeannette emphasizes the importance of education for everyone.
Note: This interview was conducted in English and Spanish, but it has been transcribed in
English.
Key Words: Columbia, education, civil war, school, education, Children, Language Barrier
Diego: Hello, this is Diego Plazas and I’ll be conducting an interview. The questions will be
asked in English and the interviewee will be able to respond in Spanish if desired as this is their
native language. What is your name?
Jeannette: My name is Bertha Jeannette Gasca. I go by my middle name Jeannette.
Diego: Alright Jeannette, what year were you born?
Jeannette: I was born in Colombia, in 1954.
Diego: Alright, and how many brothers and sisters do you have, if any siblings?
Jeannette: Okay, my parents had 10 children. I am the number four. In 70’s my first brother
came here to the United States in 1972. And then my mom got her papers through him and then
she applied for us to get the green card [for] seven of us. Two went to England and one stayed in
Colombia.
Diego: Alright and did you pursue any higher education? Did you go to college, and if so, was
that in Colombia or the US?
Jeannette: When I was in Colombia, I finished my high school in 1974. When I started in the
National University of Colombia, I was awarded with the title of Nutritionist in 1982.

�Diego: Okay and is that the current occupation you hold to this day?
[The remainder of this interview was conducted in Spanish and is translated from Spanish]
Jeannette: I worked, okay I will continue in Spanish, for 5 years I worked with a government
agency “The Colombian Institute for Family Wellbeing” I worked for 5 years. Then when I
stopped working there, in about two years I got married and we decided to move to the United
States. As my mother used to say, she filled out an application for 7 of us [her children] and we
came in 1990. We then had our first child, Alejandra, who is now 30 years old, and in 94 we had
our second child Diego Alejandro that is now 27 years old.
Well [being] here, regarding the language, well it became very difficult, to the both of us, to me
and my husband. We had to start [life here] with jobs that were very hands on, very, well as we
say, from the bottom. We had to start from the bottom, which made me very depressed at the
time because I was used to being at a professional level in Colombia.
I came [to this country] to work hard in whatever I could manage and get hold of, and well, then
I began working at daycares and I began studying early education.
I did not finish my career because, well, it became very hard due to [having] the kids and I
stopped. Two years ago, I worked as a teacher in a daycare. I spent 22 years working as a teacher
of a daycare. I had to stop due to the pandemic of COVID-19 and then, due to the tough
circumstances of life, I had to stop because I got sick and was diagnosed with cancer and thank
God the surgery turned out good. I received chemotherapy and during this time I didn’t work and
was able to get me healthy.
Then I decided to take care of children at their household to not stress myself out so much.
Working at a daycare I realized stressed me out a lot.
Diego: Okay, I understand that there were many obstacles you faced once you were in this
country. What was your goal and objective for coming to this country?
Jeannette: Well the truth is that I did not want to come to this country. It was the last thing that I
really thought of doing. The person that really convinced me in doing so was my husband. To
not have the papers go to waste, which are very hard to acquire by the way, I already had the
residency. Well, I wanted to make the most out of it and test my luck.
We came and well, yes lots of obstacles like I mentioned before. First and foremost, the English
language, the culture. But working very hard we were able to find our footing. My husband
works for the World Bank and thanks to the hard work that we both committed to, we reached a
socioeconomic status that allowed us to live a comfortable life. This was achieved with lots of
hard work, lots of hard work and little by little with the classes that we took in Montgomery
College, we learned some English, which is very important to be able to get ahead here.
I did not continue my career in nutrition in this country, because as I mentioned, the language
was a very big obstacle. Then, well, I had kids and since raising them is not cheap I had my

�mother along my side helping raise them. We also had to provide for my mother while she was
here and I had to work in whatever it was at the time. Due to this, I decided to study early
childhood education.
Diego: You mentioned your husband. What career path did he take, and does he still take part in
it to this day being in this country of the United States?
Jeannette: Okay. In Colombia he studied Journalism. At one point he worked for a national
newspaper and then when we came to this country, due to the language barrier, he couldn’t
continue in his profession. But with lots of luck, he was contracted with a job for the World Bank
and to this day he works as an IT in the World Bank. It is true that what helped him achieve
where he has gotten so far is because he is very engaged [in his work], and like I said, learning
English. That is what is most important to being successful in this country.
Diego: Okay. Focusing more on your family. What occupation did your mother have in
Colombia?
Jeannette: My mother?
Diego: Yes.
Jeannette: Oh, my mother was always a housewife. She never worked, well in that time. My
mother got married when she was 22 years old in 1949 and well, in that time they just barley got
through high school. My mom went as far as finishing her fourth year in high school, my dad
was an accountant and well we didn’t live the most comfortable lifestyle but thankfully we had
enough to live good.
Diego: You mentioned that she only attained an education up to high school. Have you noticed a
difference in the education experienced in Colombia nowadays? Would you say that it is
different when you compare it to how it was before?
Jeannette: Well of course today there is more opportunity. The [Colombian] government
facilitates and provides more assistance and funding for education. It also depends on where
you’re located. My mother was raised in a small town, and at that time, there wasn’t an
educational level so high. The possibilities were much smaller from the ones today.
At the time people weren’t so caught up in trying to get an education because it was much easier
to find a job. There was much less competition. Nowadays, there is lots of competition and if you
don’t get a degree you can’t work in many things. Just look at things here. You now need an
early childhood certificate, and in Colombia it is very similar. If you don’t have a title [degree] it
is very difficult to land a job.
Diego: I see. During the time that you were a kid, would you say that there were any major
events that influenced your decision to come to this country? Or any that influenced your career
path decision? In other words, what events occurred during that time that were very memorable
to you?

�Jeannette: That caused me to come here? Or that made me decide what career path to take?
Diego: Regarding your childhood experience. The major events that occurred at the time that
shaped your childhood that you still remember to this day? Are there any events during your
childhood that you still remember to this day that happened in Colombia?
Jeannette: Are you referring to any events that may have caused me to immigrate to this
country?
Diego: If you want to focus on that aspect of immigrating to this country. Or what major events
occurred in your days such as the FARC.
Jeannette: Well if you’re talking about situations that made me feel obligated in coming here.
Yes, as I mentioned before, there were drug trafficking problems, insecurity, the war that
affected the farmers way of life, and well all those people would come to the city and that would
create more insecurity. Since the major cities are what attracts everyone, it makes it much harder
to find a job.
Therefore, the most memorable events are those. These events lead people to migrate from their
country over to the United States. For the reason of insecurity and unemployment. The lack of
trust that people have in the government. They take the money from the people and the towns
which is why the towns don’t get the help they need to be able to develop.
Diego: In those times, to mitigate the risks of insecurities of the drug trafficking, did you notice
that the government of Colombia intervened at any point? Such as requiring that young people
enlist in the military, or did you notice that the government tried to put a stop to these activities?
Jeannette: Well what happens is that the young men always have to enlist in the military. They
are required to fight in the areas where the war is at which takes place in very small towns, very
desolate such as the mountains. In the late 80’s the government began taking a stand against the
drug trafficking because before then, there were even some [drug traffickers] that would take
part in office as senators.
Once the government realized the severity of this problem, they began to attack [the drug
traffickers]. In return the drug traffickers would place bombs everywhere and the insecurity only
got worse. They then noticed that the best course of action was taking it [the drugs] to Mexico.
They noticed it was the easiest as they noticed the United States was the number one buyer of
cocaine and marijuana. This in turn lowered the drug trafficking presence in Colombia.
Diego: Alright. If I remember correctly, you mentioned that they required young men to take part
in the military. Did it so happen that any of your brothers were enlisted in the military at the
time?
Jeannette: The truth is that at the time, if we paid off, or gave money, there was a chance that
one’s children would not have to enlist in the military. None of my brothers were required to
enlist in the military because it was all paid off. From what I remember lots of my other family

�and many that I remember were excused from having to serve in the military due to this. There
was also a draft system that gave men numbers and if the number were for example, even, then
they would not have to take part in the military. This also helped my relatives escape military
enlistment duties. From what I remember, none of my brothers had to enlist in the military.
Diego: I remember you mentioned that you came to this country because you already had the
required documentation to eventually become a citizen. Would you say you felt obligated to
come to this country since you really didn’t want to? Or do you think if you had the final say,
would you have stayed in Colombia?
Jeannette: Well the truth is not that I was obligated to come, but rather that you realize the
problems of Colombia and that in reality how difficult it is to obtain a citizenship. In reality I did
not want to, and my husband was the one that pushed me and convinced me in coming to this
country. At the end of the day if we decided on going back [to Colombia], we could and there
was no problem. Due to this I did not let this opportunity go to waste of coming to the United
States.
And here we are to this day, 32 years, with two kids and a granddaughter.
Diego: I remember you mentioned you have two sisters that decided to move to England. Did it
never occur to them to come to this country, and for what reasons did they chose another country
over this one?
Jeannette: Well the truth is that it’s not that they didn’t have the opportunity to come to this
country, even though my oldest brother was already here. They decided to go to England because
the oldest of the two had a friend there, and this was the reason why they ended up going there
instead.
The sister of her friend helped them find a job and all. My sister Marlene, which is the fifth
oldest out of the ten, ended up arriving there and then once she settled down my other sister
Claudia ended up going, number 10 out of all my siblings. Due to this, the two of them ended up
settling in England.
Diego: Focusing on you immigrating to this country. Prior to you moving to this country for
good, did you ever visit beforehand?
Jeannette: No, well the thing is that it never occurred to me before on coming to this country.
When I had to come to get my documents certified I had the chance to get to get to know it. It
was March 20 something in 1990 when I came to get my documents certified. I was planning on
getting married in May but we had to postpone everything because me and my husband were still
dating at the time when I came to get the documents certified. Then I stayed 3 months when I got
my residency approved and then shortly after I got married [in Colombia].
We then came back [to the United States]. But I never arrived as a tourist [status] here.

�Diego: When you arrived to this country, during your first week was there anything that stood
out that you had never seen in Colombia?
Jeannette: Oh well of course, the metro, and the organization. I am not sure if that is what you
are asking me. Yes well, the metro. In Colombia the only city that has a metro is Medellin, which
is one of the cities that I dream of going to visit. But I had never seen one in person and being
here it was very amazing to me. The organization of this country also struck me. Everything in
this country is huge, American-sized. This is probably what stood out to me the most.
What most got me depressed was when I tired finding a job as a nutritionist. It was very
inconvenient. Of course, when I applied for this job posting, at the time job postings popped up
on the newspaper, and I spotted one for a position at Adventist Hospital. It was for a nutritionist
position based on meal nutrition services.
Since I already had 3 brothers here, one of them always helped translate for me and like I
mentioned my English at the time was not the best. I ended up going to the interview and when
they posed a question about any communication barriers or difficulties, that’s when I fell into the
depression. It hit me very hard. I had my hopes up and shortly after I ended up getting pregnant
and had my first daughter.
One year had passed after moving here and seeing that my daughter was a bit older, I decided to
take some English classes at Montgomery College.
Diego: If I understand correctly, you arrived on a plane?
Jeannette: Yes, we arrived under all the guidelines of the law. With the proper documentation, I
was already arriving with my residency because like I said I was here three months to certify my
residence, I went back to Colombia and got married, and well my husband did come here with a
tourist visa. But then he ended up filing for the residency and after two years was able to get it.
In that regard, we did not have any problems. The problem ended up being acclimating ourselves
to this country. Especially when you aren’t as fluent in the English language.
Diego: I remember that you mentioned you still have a brother that stayed in Colombia. Is there a
reason why he didn’t end up coming to this country and what do you think would have happened
differently if he ended up coming to this country? Or what has he done having stayed in
Colombia this whole time?
Jeannette: The truth is that he was never interested in coming to this country. My mother was
never able to file the proper documentation for him because he was already married. One of the
conditions of obtaining [United States] citizenship was that you could not have already gotten
married. Due to him already being married, he lost the opportunity to come to this country. Since
he’s a systems engineer, he has been able to make ends meet and holds a stable job. At the end of
the day, he does not worry about never having been able to come to this country.

�Maybe a reason he might have been bothered about not being able to come to this country is
because of his kids. Since they ended up becoming doctors, they would have liked doing their
residency here but due to the high cost of living and challenges of obtaining the proper
documentation, they never did. This I think is the only thing that worries him. Everything else,
no. He is doing very well in Colombia.
Diego: After having spent all this time here, is there anything that you miss from Colombia?
Such as friends?
Jeannette: Oh yes definitely. I miss the social life and the food. Regardless I still keep up with
my friends but it’s not the same. Everyone already has their family and everyone has settled
down. I have my best friend Merchi that I was able to cherish lots of memories with. Then I got
married and came to this country but we still keep up. My cousins, yeah, you end up missing
your family a lot but everyone has their own life figured out.
Diego: I imagine that you still have lots of family out Colombia. Have you gone back to
Colombia to visit throughout all these years?
Jeannette: Oh yes. Well first of all, I don’t have much family out here in the United States.
From my siblings out of the seven of us that came here, two have already gone back to
Colombia. I now have three brothers in Colombia. Some cousins here and there but uncles I
don’t have any. No, the majority of my family are in Colombia. Thankfully they’re all doing
good in Colombia. Even with all of the insecurity and the employment difficulties everything has
gone real good for them.
Yes I really miss Colombia, and I have gone about four times in these 32 years. I went to
Colombia to visit them, to take note of the changes. Every time it has always changed. It
changes, changes, changes. I always have a good time when I go out there. I’ve also been to lots
of other places such as Spain, Canada, England, and yeah one way or another nothing replaces
my Colombia. I think I’m going to end up staying in the United States though to be able to stay
in contact with my kids.
Diego: Have you noticed any major changes in Colombia from the times that you went back
recently to what you remember from your childhood? You mentioned that there were lots of
changes.
Jeannette: The last time that I went to Colombia was in the year 2015. Since then I have not
gone back. Oh yes the changes are drastic. Nowadays there is lots of immigration to Colombia
from Venezuela. Due to the situation in Venezuela, lots of people have immigrated to Colombia
and the insecurity has increased due to this. There has been lots of changes. The difference in
eras from the years I lived out there, such as the music. You would dance to music such as
cumbia, merengue, chucu chucu. It was very nice. There were lots of dance clubs where you
would have a great time.

�With the passing of time the music changes. That type of music isn’t really listened to anymore.
A denser population makes it so that everything is harder. I really liked Colombia when I lived
there. It has changed for the better somewhat, but the insecurity has also developed as well.
Diego: Have you ever thought about how different your life would have been had you stayed in
Colombia? In terms of reflecting on your colleagues from school that went into the same major.
Have you noticed certain things that they ended up doing from staying out in Colombia that you
might have been able to achieve had you stayed out there?
Jeannette: Well from my graduating class from Colombia, that I know of, three ended up here,
and one in Spain. The rest of them stayed in Colombia. Some of them didn’t have much luck
landing a stable job because they keep getting temp jobs as contractors. But it seems that all of
them are well off and situated. I had a job offer to work at the military hospital but I had already
started making my way here, and I most likely would have ended up working there. It’s hard to
say really.
Diego: Out of the benefits of this country, which one would you say has helped you the most? In
terms of security, finances, health insurance.
Jeannette: Well, it goes without saying that this country brings you lots of benefits. That’s one
of the reasons why I ended up staying, lets put it that way, I think that if I don’t head to
Colombia then I’ll just end up staying here. Of course, the help offered here has really been
shown with raising my kids. The free education offered here, the schooling system, it’s all free, a
very good education.
I had financial help from the start. I was provided with Medicaid which helped me have my first
kid. Yes, there are plenty of benefits I can’t deny, lots of help, lots of help all around.
Diego: I noticed that the first thing you mentioned was that the education here was free. Would
you say that in Colombia the education system is different? Do you have to pay?
Jeannette: In Colombia there is also free schooling. I studied in a school funded by the
government. I believe I didn’t have to pay for my schooling. It wasn’t bad, I mean obviously if
you go to a private school, it’s a bit more organized, the discipline. It’s more controlled.
Regardless, I was still able to learn. The education in Colombia is very good, it is recognized at a
world level. The college education offered there is very good. The education system you can say
is very good. Lots of students finish their careers, but the problem is that most of the time they
do not find a job.
There is lots of possibilities to get an education in Colombia, whether that is through financial
aid given by the government, or by attending a federally funded university such as the one that I
went to. It’s not expensive but the admissions process makes it somewhat hard to get into. There
are lots more federally funded universities, but the National University is one of the more
recognized universities at a world scale.

�Diego: To wrap things up, one last question that I would like to make is if you could travel back
in time, what piece of advice would you tell your former self before having come to this country?
What would it be? Being able to go back in time with all the experience you have gathered
throughout the years in this country what piece of advice would you have given yourself prior to
coming here?
Jeannette: Well, is it advice to have stayed in Colombia and not have ended up coming here?
Diego: Whatever piece of advice you deem necessary, whether that be having stayed in
Colombia or ending up here, learning something, bringing something, leaving something.
Jeannette: Okay, the piece of advice that I can give everyone in the world is for them to get an
education. Getting an education is the best treasure that a person can have in this world and no
one else can take it from you. Getting an education in whatever it may be, it does not need to be
a PhD or anything sophisticated. Whatever it may be it helps someone defend themselves in the
real world with the knowledge they attain. Even if it means that you don’t end up working in
your own field that degree is going to help one remain educated in many different aspects such
as a cultural standpoint.
An education is the skeleton key that opens many doors.
Diego: Okay. Much thanks.
Jeannette: Thank you.
Diego: With this we will conclude this interview.

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