1 10 13 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ef1d84d6ee8e4267093b3db43b0033ae.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=ZLA7GNwl7a0p1qvgiALc3MMKmbhokRv5B6RyFhNz9NNynXCJiYjUc4O7RbtD3qvO7p3JneynrcDn85pc2NJMS3L6k%7EolkJkdxf89-KVb6TmEz80wrykBl6cvU2UkxAo0IBv811lpJ%7E7IZvGNV5OR7yEaDrW3rhsikkIRmBGeXNyU-hA4uhErcJEq1gRYQthkWTRdChJZq03b2xA2qx2xetTayAzhC28Y%7ElCZKYCqJZfOBtJs6xbBL44eVzDcwKEpsNMZIVkxLSSe-C0lek4hZhxwacn1d9WtjUbzJyk7fDTbhFYX%7EqRl%7Ea8u6MHiqBIi%7EYiEr4%7ElziCxIEhp0EdN8Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Adegbemisola (Bemi) Onitiri Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jane Doe (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview Upper Marlboro, Prince George’s County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jane Doe (pseudonym) Description An account of the resource This interview between Adegbemisola Onitiri and Jane Doe (pseudonym) details Doe’s experiences as an immigrant. It explores the triumphs and struggles of her time in the United States. Additionally, this interview reveals the nature of Jane Doe’s experiences growing up in a polygamous family in Ogun state, Nigeria, the values that were emphasized in her family, and how those values impact the way she raises her children. ***This interview transcript is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adegbemisola Onitiri Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 10, 2024 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History IT motherhood Nigeria Polygamy https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/d3924d8607873d26e337ca2175ce215e.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=GBZOG6YC%7EsUGxoiKglx4uoAxsrGTmTK8OCH1PXOG4O5OTC1yqod3N7sG%7Eb2tFuSBo9o1s3TH2yXlPJPCYRLXpcCEJccvVDApcrNnDGpe5RKuIKwaAhsVk08PdsEPWYS3PCiz5yIu94YlkAE4d3U5GZJrMH2sHUH3jpouuTRajSSrSD3Fw5wjZplfj0G76beTix7dvWZb5M2DbF7NlE2VIna%7EKw7%7EbW7JNx85HmDyB8LaMt%7Et5ZbZgIrgH0k-CPWmBO4zpdfbr3YnzXFdNP7gYKG9chguLZ0%7EaWGeEVsxdF3mb25HLMsRxYN66Dn9oHUaovkmzL5EWN1MFMa5XGJI6w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sydney Black Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Samuel Price (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview College Park, Maryland, Prince George’s County, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Samuel Price (pseudonym) Description An account of the resource This interview between Sydney Black and Samuel Price (pseudonym) explores Price’s path of immigration from Dominica to the United States. Samuel is a graduate student in his mid-30s. In this interview, he shares his experiences living in Dominica, Florida, Trinidad, and Maryland. Price’s interview covers experiences with racism, shifts in identity, racial and ethnic presentation, and open-mindedness. ***This interview (transcript only) is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sydney Black Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 8, 2024 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Caribbean Dominica friends music race school https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/41f15bade4cb24a36a455347a2b19520.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=j7Lsy6656Iq5ZYuNzzPdFqoXvjrx9xceODc6moCyhY3kF1QNHVqfp0HwDIvD2WZ77-PUNhKrF12yMOGLkaXhwdicYsUTUcfYGENrpBhM6%7Exd8VV8zuf%7E9gon36zK6gNytpWwwo8GYD5lwGg2W7%7EDPAJEfjU42-ugyIEPZ4stkKB1QL4wn-DipzzP9IfMmbl-JVzopFxQi46IZtw1GLh%7EdeSHHpthhWxxdTb72CE4V%7E4Q61jyR8J885kh8tQHqYMZGLP30EDjPlKIWyya4W9E9eB0OBpdWqVQjU698QsthsPfcT6HwCNRANIjfNvr%7EYPYbXocRJGpa6nJnUH4SqxiUw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data mp4, pdf Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Emma Hall Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Luis Martinez Location The location of the interview College Park, Prince George’s County, MD, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Luis Martinez Description An account of the resource This interview between Emma Hall and Luis Martinez explores Luis’s experiences as the son of a Mexican diplomat. He lives in the United States on a diplomatic visa (through his father) so he is not an immigrant, although many of his experiences mirror those of immigrants. He explains his childhood moving history, recounting his move to Brussels, Belgium at the age of 3 and move to Maryland, USA at the age of 10. He discusses cultural differences between Mexico, Belgium, and the US and his experiences with and in his various homes. He emphasizes the value of adaptability and open-mindedness throughout his interview. He also speaks on how religion and school, specifically the International Catholic school he attended, shaped his view of the world. Luis also reveals the struggles of employment as an A1, or diplomatic, visa holder. He touches on the struggle of assimilation in new countries, employment struggles, and cultural gaps between European, North, and South America. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Emma Hall Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 26th, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio assimilation Belgium Diplomat employment international Mexico https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6828124cc6c782166bca03c82964144d.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=mx51g8xBVtnoO3PVXU%7EriVmt%7Epf-G64jjnY3S4UOc0sWTC5s%7E2OXisrqCLstL9D1t1k4Jql9lE5DGjGJhlf1K35iwrxSg6w%7EMMGOJeCzB379dCJ99DXlkWa0JqmFwggOSRc2uJI-8q2dbVGzssHtlMLrjrCJsoEmFsen98kA2T22VID3YDmUdOpwxo%7EnuFOaf3C0125LPr7DwarUOeeg11NSb-LxTZVDVH0ft6MLxsaJOPTJ0dEto34kfP5LM6VhTHIi9ElzxP68oiooXM2wWXfry56pgaFdKOKovY9sNHP2sCpIfCN93lpJYBMJuBKRa9QrKQIoXIOEjA0QP8Dclw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dora-Marie Groelsema Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Marie-Cécile Groelsema Location The location of the interview New Carrollton, Prince George’s County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Marie-Cécile Groelsema Description An account of the resource This interview between Dora-Marie Groelsema and Marie-Cécile Groelsema explores Marie-Cécile’s experiences as an immigrant to the United States from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Seeking to advance her education, she moved to the US in 1987 to Pittsburgh to study English at University of Pittsburg. Then she moved to Indiana and studied comparative literature with a minor in film studies and African studies at Indiana University. Marie-Cécile’s interview explores her education experience in the US and in other countries, her family memories, and her refusal to identify as an immigrant. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora-Marie Groelsema Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 11, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, PDF Democratic Republic of the Congo education family identity literature university https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4f652c64a209589f7eb9a5b38980a63e.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=nc4Yuzta4UTtt5AuTpBZq-abqLR0M0yZ5s6eAKeXaubnMnEoAKHOLjkOWvmzYaWojWDYqDqJWJHx-KBs9TKmRfJACiDbPjwiqisRy3ew1kAbJPXwqiEYSEyAB4v6pyUnXUq5KOVJTeDnsshKn3oJq0zRlWJ0wCQJnrl48KfV2g0%7E7QVNii3Xn27DxkdC1W1SzHSm4EsvzvLWNdy-TMvIu5SRB3%7E4KIHs8itiUKt47M5KXzUdPGAM8b5i0uvWmr3nsvwmDgBx0gtbv77uurWwP69cW5587tTV-0Hvns45F9vgZ9Ydts%7EpNLGCp70%7ErxUH23i-0Ezfr6B1m74vlkG9lg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Alexander Chen Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Manoharan Chelladurai Location The location of the interview Frederick, Frederick County, Maryland, USA Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Manoharan Chelladurai Description An account of the resource This interview between Alexander Chen and Manoharan Chelladurai explores Murali's experiences as an immigrant to the United States from Tamil Nadu, India. Chelladurai tells of his experiences growing up in a rural village in India and his educational upbringing. He also gives information of how he immigrated to United States to work at Wall Street in 2003 and later moved to the DMV area in 2013, to have a calmer way of life. Chelladurai’s interview focuses on the importance of education, and how his education allowed him to succeed, strive here in America, and why education should be highly valued in society. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alexander Chen Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 1, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Computer Science India IT Tamil Nadu technology Wall Street https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/27477e5ba06c01a7008a39dee6c14337.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=N%7E%7EFkhrZWcFU7LHwwTq0290aqfltcRlQSPsBDabnBOgl3mbXQYSizntA8%7EUMPuyemmfHtXWHgEokQZVKv71aE7uCu4u8cUVYuvjiHHEKUNBuCv2fnQjSuK6OxEKxngo%7EXtfF3ptb4ACdB612xqj50HYxDvAlPQwq0jNUJMb1J%7EOJd4OksGUDs5Y2LP4zVIO52WyzvNHzmfrbg6BxMKocwQSyat7Cf5ScvuLkZR8NVMHTQbgHRGe5eL7wyOGnYt4o65DDT%7EdUlOF5iCfg1oQfdFR6I7HJ7MuYzFTpAdcJv-twr7NHkPq5ZfwS-pLf%7ENJ-3mR2EyqD9dKvZodt8HBMrg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Abigail I. Carbajal Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cecia A. Turcios Location The location of the interview Lanham, Prince George’s County, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Cecia Turcios Description An account of the resource This interview between Abigail Carbajal and Cecia Turcios explores Turcios’ experiences as an immigrant to the United States of America from El Salvador. Her father had moved to the United States ten years before and was working to get them to move here. Eventually, he was able to obtain green cards for Turcios and her mother and moved them over here to start a better life. Turcios’s interview touches on her struggles with her educational dreams after moving and to find motivation to pursue her dreams in such a big country without knowing English. Until this day Turcios emphasizes the importance of having a person to teach you that education is important and how she continues to do this for her own kids. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Abigail I. Carbajal Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio America earthquake education El Salvador school war https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/192993bf15390b749e154bccae69aa5e.JPG?Expires=1779926400&Signature=KRnuddlzaz6Pjm5srDxdVYAqEY5YaUMov-Rb8yGc0WZKbmrNKzzoFFU5qpoHH5zDJyCyEQMNSmJWfdAYBLvCHz0lIDH5W%7EqS2NhoALGR2JHKyn3OCiQtGxnRXuG9FGP0Zd%7EPF8eZeg36K0Y%7EN5uzgtlG6DEZ%7Ew0AqlCR80FKNputKqrPAmDA8QbSkPre7FjTM7JDzfbdaqHrc%7ElUWlDIkbmXgAhPWs3hcPlgvOqxQ9LzyCgBNMb9ggpjEgdILXjMyttScB5xLy3M57V5ps7P7kHrVqvLv%7Eoc495yE%7E1UWfflIaYFPmPtIlsLwJMcVjAiqxJPI-cmdmHcXlOb8R%7Eb1w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM fcb3b404768fe58ba521650f0fbaf29b https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ee65458e7384d3d4f0249c8c49e2b1b8.JPG?Expires=1779926400&Signature=U5NrjmfVMPqjdsOc63K3HryQoxqFGubxCxF%7ECLM775efoiYbbUVR0BqybmzTG0oiNQcqtwyLZCTKx6DRMmpZHpPhwLmyend23q%7EBzqRpSxawmQbWKf0Wq7vLd3aAPMnxFBAomERjY3OOYtzXSGnCH4nSbULPJBZh1kjuIKQmoIGgJaSSa%7EJosPlGmKSGJcLVErMn1WguBlF85clYhno5Zb01AwcYrxR9khbRzvSw89ScykjY-DsNVpDVnOhLT9Apvh1zGbgAAdhfBegirALZZ6kEAWS4Tep331FBYJuR8b3BAf8vGblJeZL4UVKMBHGK6mapQBtrt7JaoCxSy8zG6g__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM aff67ebdc540a35f61cb6a4556bf0f15 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/fb63f4edf2bf93d816d590d22b4036f7.m4a?Expires=1779926400&Signature=AanxQayMTmFCVcdasJqDbTcQig7IKCtQOsi5mZM6hBq2h1z3C4A%7EMUMUbE5pIfUJ-f9Vvi8eG7%7EG%7EYqcGEMTTRjU6ne8aSHAxVLC%7EHxlWJ-e73j2nfCkMIssNNlfFizVy4S3fgV9vY-gLACf4CDc5qgc4nA1kRJfjEl4ev83g-JYqBm6IobT6d5cCYUiOBteKqCGUXziEcplxSv3s0dGTjCl7wIFdkiiGspqJqrjNLmYm0H26lEfghziqVQv0iy%7ETTj0NmKg7nZxZWLtWKjXdoWuFHdZCiPg9jACv6PTjRwOkqhbFpSsoq0cI3HdIZFLToio-hs6MhHb3-OvcLAEcQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM b4cb15b220d96947ec911ccecf354791 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/84c07a347ccb269926536172d3526aa4.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=L6TO6-v57y-c8Hot-O0cV2diOCn2ebyNHfFv8J2MypP%7EY1K-1RbPeaXyO538-EawqKLhQ0cWKRrqtK298uE%7EO3E-KB71gjfcuy72GgjKzNAWvf5zErM4Nl-VjgvgBPWx88%7EGr4kd1831KOy4cZSXNIC1yJk965QiF%7EWsRYMbnc5Q7IveIdKx2aQMMcVj0zFUmQ2AAGc8SKQmWkXVBiF1hTa9AKPBvTVu3fHJO623Gc9kSQFImpXV2Hg4al3wGXbk2XpxCES1pujU2QGmEimyNCZrnZDG3DsYqmwqFpK%7EcVVXbR1qCj0QAOFlOZlgFc-91hxW2RfyA4786JGIcLOTsg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 050de00eaf2b76b7d41d15d54cc9a527 PDF Text Text ��������������������������������������������������������� https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ce52a92ddcc87645681480c1c55c98f9.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=hPj5SbEq5npei41EE2hHXL6Lx%7ExCDODPIMS2xEHSdecRYfhkn7XmK235mDbYOgz0z%7EUswOl6fmD4M2UzXeMJOrq1Q8lkiHoYvAEIyPjbLMHVB-WIj2yenVvp1CgI4Kk2MRGrwI8hzp7GUZc8mbBvSNSHVkYYo3cZT8FRLRISbc4zaU76Hu99Cdq49ICVg7h3%7EnSiW6BDy%7EpPP9h1a0co49flOhwYw9-Vjc1mcrYmbA9YJl37conjxuM-TryLiRI9eMYYeePr1k3XdxB9EnTE8E3ZV381AzW-QLRstwmEXuRWg2r8FYWHyQtQg-ySkNuVQBth4wd8lvmDDa6BNyI2HA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 3944e9592ac4d94f3f29b7f2d131eb10 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Daniela Lopez Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lizzett Contreras Location The location of the interview Urbana, Frederick County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lizzett Contreras Description An account of the resource This interview between Daniela Lopez and Lizzett Contreras explores Lizzett’s experiences growing up in El Salvador, her family dynamics, and the reasons behind their immigration to the United States. Contreras provides vivid insights into her childhood, education, and the challenges her family faced due to the political unrest in their home country. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Daniela Lopez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, PDF, jpeg Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History civil war cultural transition education El Salvador family Green Card guerilla https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/57b6078d28e38f05fc4b4a8a26e3af87.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=HpwRCFylMGrMmHold-siQu-DNhtMikiR8IOjSd%7E%7EDKxlBmJGj9d030RzsFrluck2a3%7EMBixK1JADCrnzALszLQxBFfgc5i39kn7-atOaV%7EyVWSOTPsfApMnFTGGcj20SQqlCwgk5FUsbKtMEZGDqMgqIeFWEUAAMFh8pEcnh1anmQjp9WGPv%7ET1x99u7f-ZSERB1v%7EwfaTK9yt9fwa%7E2VUO1EOfjh0fV%7Ev1uXkgqy%7EvEcNLpu66BeV5H6fnMGLU7geQQyUgtTpOSNDhXDA14ZglyYNqVzQt5-R3m4Vg%7EUp9alqOaxKJM4AjZsj%7EwFq7AohX-5LhNyPyZUbQMg8mm%7Ew__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jannatul Mia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nayon Mia Location The location of the interview Frederick County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Nayon Mia Description An account of the resource The interview between Jannatul Mia and Nayon Mia delves into Nayon's experiences as an immigrant from Bangladesh to America. In 1993, Nayon, a Bengali, sought a better life in the United States. He recounts his upbringing in Satbiriya, Kumilla, Bangladesh, where he endured the hardships of war, pursued his education, and worked as a diesel mechanic for over 12 years. The interview details his journey to obtaining a visa and better income opportunities upon arriving in America. Nayon's narrative highlights the significant role of family and the cultural responsibility placed on him as the eldest son to provide for his parents and siblings, as well as his own wife and children. Throughout the interview, he emphasizes the importance of family and the need to secure financial stability, which influenced many of his critical life decisions. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jannatul Mia Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 2, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio America Bangladesh difficult family money work https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/726729e43780889d627caecacc9e59b6.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=rb0ce19wfp1JC3rNm266miqayk6qv-sJ2Nk2pwxlEnq4O8ZTnfMj9%7Eq71KKzan0b1JdESguBHC-hL7Jj03iCusC6O9fywOjIhKNcUJgG3Eybxf7UN4GX07oMSurs5Pb5PP3%7EsyqbO9yWJI4aQ%7E70f7QEhZPKPmUEobBFQ6MK%7EGvbwVKPW-jde4alZI7bjjPN%7EHSGVMLXV7CEXHgWGJ1OTxF2711-EmdqUwutrVeBHYMuxQpjNU5%7Eq9On4vQ8rOllTAywzFclFv6YrWOjmEQoFSPilo8OglngGCrG0dzoarka3NfjM0vE5pOgIp9k5p9FVb39S0CeZgfhVKlO6TswYQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 2cd4037dfacb596ffa2841de0ef959ca https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/eff4f9fe9adab1d7ed560cc73015c18f.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=JJbVS76IysRwoaAT6FS%7EpPRYPf455ZjYsFdhibOp1x-IPq4GJhaLZU4uui23CFxZfTpWVIT%7Etdn%7EHEhWOunge6dETRXPNw0s1QBj-zo9INW4WZiY5Y4cdGMNenw9D29BXTu9xQH8gUOxSBfnyXp0S5e8curk5%7E15MhHqAQq7MbUbFhAN5cMYZvo-kLzQ2Khplz9Y0T4VQvv72Dd5um0JZ-pLw9UggcJBk3LE0SWxEC%7Ez1cZdCt%7E1XXuOWMSuBxnJ55kNJdrsh7EBgL1PsOCASj%7EUW4-73j-THoFw%7EtiBEdz3eJTIN9lFfeKpdsTKykwyc5yk8oSfUN3eXrfgpdQ1KQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 29172cfdb15905f72c79d651d4a4e8d9 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/34083e9e71921c7ce80ed9c9361e0da1.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=AgW8vciqKqPJ0JdP71BJ1ekYvI4CtSS4ape8uFXk%7EK5-eUuEwGKaQTVR9QfGoQ72G7HBNPG9vQvDR8hhQW0P89GAyRGjtGFB%7Ec7gGF8HRGcm9WL3CeR0U-8xQKmfp0a8Y9Srr6GqHOYJ0CyHfQiP-Rxc1V20YFgX%7ES9Iy8ygBc5PWrsxh%7E3hpK8KysSJPv8%7E9pWqmKz7-2ChhSZQbw4IwyCJDy1cdBsvf3n7hoMDgNd96sRXXMYGemlEex-V8CYB%7EAPVd6oilIJRCMatZpbr5IXRLLJuIUP08IQ6XxNmIrxE9NMSHNMHRAADc-ASXWqs2rLn9qsYmFIWDHMvs8sv1A__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 83ea34e90f1053c888c43c0edbe7d1ac https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/35081c0e295f0a19cfbf575f7cf0129f.m4a?Expires=1779926400&Signature=O2ikNt6oQP5my9Vv-nVGOacKqSAB8kgSFLGTGuyUQlAYiVvXstVGTiN-N1HU7MpImHbJsnA175wcy3m%7ENs%7Ed7Asd8ycIjqkZ0t8vOzrkGecb4xo9%7EJgh3y8Uql1a4C6j6j4SsFl9Xz1mtMIVQb5jiqjZZLg7yUXYaNTAIvX0EYBgSHlvCks16QdONb2wIP3J4C4i4hlb%7EiZheHJ6MAGNfTEsSuI2LYZvsrPnwQYNd76Py8gRjqrXR01LdaOQZbFak3nZ2Ek0LSzXmyK9mwfnNN38zmR9EWwp1-zHAh9Sr3Mu6QPCKG73F9mN2NgPL8F32QWhzy4QNHnkbHVuf3N%7EwQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 82a0f7fce1c9c7a1b81314f87a6b2f03 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/492a9c7bdeecf06507ec08d38d2abe52.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=tJ2Y4eat455AcNk3JBsyUqP1YReIn3zxFHpg1jYDkbPHK4hwY6ncVlKuybR8OECK9VEjZu-2t%7EC2IWUavXV%7ErEiHBtuWbXkyzS5yixt7sXzBeZA4nxVgJsA8MHvMU%7E3lCnpetZuC4J321TVCM584JTQ%7Epvawr54Vxg-m5FYjH1EjwYV981Rai-qxVOqoMoJ3iFrTzsGBSQZgd31jnRmQXX6-IM11EckMex9Dn1n4KE182Hkj4SzC56UprmPzMpA9Oy3B7BPV0S0jVK2qHHcwxMo-PFRXJ4u0aRCOX1ld8%7EzIBkn5Z0JN1zJrBU0RiVTX6wB4lGCVRH5eilq%7EgVMw6A__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 1b14ea65a4f6d93d8d8c6c6261ca7246 PDF Text Text 1 Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course HIST 465-Spring 2024 Instructor: Dr. Anne S. Rush Interviewer’s name: Caleb McClatchey Narrator’s name: Argentina McCarthy Narrator’s Country of Origin: Panama Narrator’s Current Residence: Columbia, Howard County, MD, USA Date of Interview: March 1, 2024 Place of Interview: Columbia, Howard County, MD, USA Introduction: This interview between Caleb McClatchey and Argentina McCarthy explores Argentina’s adolescence in Panama and her adult life as an immigrant in the United States. Growing up in the small town of David, she speaks about Panamanian culture and navigating poverty and political turmoil in her teen years. Argentina intertwines her immigration experience with her older sister’s, recounting the sacrifices she and her mother made in Panama to allow her sister to immigrate first. While Argentina did not want to immigrate, she was forced to come study by her mother and arrived to the United States in 1969 at age 18. Argentina discusses her struggles learning English and making ends meet upon initially arriving. She highlights the different roles she has had in her time here: a stay-at-home parent, then a high school Spanish teacher, and now a grandparent. Keywords: Panama, immigrant, teacher, parent, poverty McClatchey: Alright. We're recording, so I'll start out with a littleMcCarthy: Ok. McClatchey: introduction. McCarthy: Mhm. McClatchey: So I'm Caleb McClatchy and today I'll be interviewing Argentina McCarthy. Today is March 1st, 2024. We are in Columbia, Maryland. And we'll be doing a oral history interview today. So with that, let's get started. So my first question, just starting out simple, is when were you born? McCarthy: What year, what? McClatchey: They, they want the birth date, you can just give the year, if that's, if you’re uncomfortableMcCarthy: Oh, no, I'm ok. Yeah, I, like I told you I’m open. I was born in March. This is my birthday month. That’s convenient it was March 1st. Long time ago, 1951. McClatchey: Ok. �2 McCarthy: Yeah. So. McClatchey: Ok. And then, where? McCarthy: I was born in Boquete, a very small town in the mountains in Chiriquí, which is one of the provinces in Panama. McClatchey: Uh, and so what, what can you tell me about where you grew up? McCarthy: I was born in Boquete, however, though I grew up in, in David. David was at that time a, a very small city where we pretty much knew, small community, that knew each other. Good for the adults, not for the teenagers because if you did something that your parents didn't approve of by the time you made it home they would already know, somebody would have informed them. It was nice because it was a sense of community where everybody look out for one another, where seems like everybody was my mother or my father. So there will be taking, you know, reprimanding you and making sure that you were doing the right thing. Along with that community of friends, it was that close community, community of family because we lived close by, my grandmother lived just a few houses down, so it was in a sense very nurturing from that point of view because you never felt totally alone. And, uh, you know, so that'sMcClatchey: How, how would you say that affected you growing up? McCarthy: Um, it was, like I said, it was nurturing and I knew that I could go when I had a problem, I could go to either my grandmother and depending what I kind of advice, if I wanted to, uh, you know, you didn’t want McClatchey: Yeah, sure. McClatchey: (Both chuckle) Yeah. Right. Right. But I could go to a grandmother. Or I could talk with my neighbor or an aunt about whatever and depended, like I said, on how I felt with a member of the family, of the community. And being a teenager or a young person, you sort of tend to manipulate a little bit (McClatchey chuckles) where you go. So it was good in that, you know, that affected me and that, it made, there was a sense of security that you could always go to somebody you were not, never alone, even when you might have felt alone, it wasn't really for too long. It was also, the sense of community was very noticeable at school. So we work in groups helping each other. So if, I wasn't good at math, but my friend was good at math, so he, we will get together and he will explain whatever to us. And, and it was like that, that interest that we had, that we wanted that other person to do well and it was again that community that we grew up with, where you were looking out for one another all the time. McClatchey: You said it was fairly small about. Can you give aMcCarthy: It was, um. McClatchey: -rough number. �3 McCarthy: Well, I'm. I would have to make it up. It might have been, it’s agriculture, It's an agricultural area. So the, the community, where the, where I grew up, the homes were fairly close even though it was a lot of land and very agricultural. And so because of those people that were living far away and you put the numbers, I would say maybe in that particular part of town, there might have been maybe. Umm. Maybe. And this is an estimate, maybe 50,000, 75,000 at the time, I don't know. But the community, the little town where I grew up, you know, like main street was just like, sort of equivalent to Ellicott City. Maybe add another street to the sideMcClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: And, and the park, central park. McClatchey: Ok McCarthy: So it wasn't really that big. Umm. McClatchey: Ok. So it's a small town, but not, not like a village?. McCarthy: It's a small town. No, it wasn't a super small, but part of it is cultural where people, you say hello to somebody and then your friends run away. (McClatchey laughs) Sort of like FacebookMcClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: -right? Like old time Facebook. And so even though there were like, a, a little small community here and then another one over here, we’d all sort of function together. So I knew people, we knew from other communities. Like I said I would be downtown, which wasn't necessarily the community where I was playing with friends and so forth, and I will play music during the Day of the Dead, and by the time I made it home my mother knew. And so, because somebody from here told this one (McClatchey laughs) and they were- and that's without phonesMcClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Imagine if there was, they had phones or the smartphone. McClatchey: Yeah. McCarthy: Yeah. McClatchey: Do you have a, uh, a childhood memory that stands out to you? You know, a favorite story? McCarthy: Maybe a mischievous one, because that's what will stand up more because, I'm sure there was some kind of consequence attached to it. Um, but you're talking as a young, a very young child, or what age? McClatchey: Whatever, whatever. �4 McCarthy; Whatever? Ok, I remember, I love coffee. OK. And so, but as a young child, when I was around 5, I wasn't really allowed to drink coffee yet. But, I knew that my grandmother had a pot of coffee brewing all the time because people will come and they will have, you know, give everybody coffee, or offer them coffee. So I remember somehow getting into that coffee, drinking the coffee more than-I don't even know how I survived that-because there's a lot of coffee that I drank, and having my mother being surprised at me. I don't know. (McClatchey chuckles). So that's sort of, I don't remember any consequence, but I'm sure there was something because it's always been stuck in my head. And the more happy, like older memory was my 15th, like quinceñera, 15th uh birthday celebration where my mother, who didn't like having parties at all, had a party in their house. At that time those celebrations were done at home because there wasn't really a venue with, where to have them. And they had a lot of food, and friends, and music, and dancing the first waltz. And, uh, it was sort of goofy, but it was so, you know, it was a mixture of adults with teenagers because that's the way they do parties over there. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Yeah. So that's another memory. McClatchey: Sounds like a lot of fun. McCarthy: Yeah, that was fun. I didn't want the party, but I, I had to have it. But at the end I, I ended up enjoying it. McClatchey: That’s good. McCarthy: Yeah. McClatchey: So you mentioned your school a little while ago. So my next question is like, so what is, what is your educational background? McCarthy: There? McClatchey: There and here I guess. McCarthy: Ok. Well over there as you know the school system is six years, six years. So, um, the six years in high school, you have the, you go three years and then you have the option to, for the last three years to have what they call, bachillerato, which is not, not to be confused with the bachelor degree here, but, would, would be the same word, but it's not a college degree. So you can either go, do science, business or education. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: And I think there was one for agriculture too, but that one, it was, one route that you could go, but you could get a job right after that, those three years. So, I chose science even though I wanted to choose, wanted education. But mostly to please my father because he wanted me to either be a nurse or a doctor and so I said, ‘Oh, I'll do that’. He was happy, but what I �5 really wanted to do was education. So that's, so my background in that sense then I had a lot of science classes, you know, and math, you know, which is not my favorite. Um, so that's that. Then from there, do you want me to tell you here? Because I didn't go toMcClatchey: Sure, yeah. McCarthy: -a college. From there, I went to a program in, to learn English in Santa Barbara. And that was two months long. And then I enrolled in a community college there, the first semester all my classes were English, English for the second learning, English 101, every, any, anything English. English grammar. And I think one history class maybe, maybe had history class. And then, um, then I transferred to another school and then eventually went to Cornell, came over here and finished school here in Towson. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: Yeah. And then I'm an education major, right. McClatchey: Ok. So you went to community college to Cornell to Towson? McCarthy: Well, but I didn't go to Cornell. I went there with a- because I was married. And so then, um, and so I worked there and then I took a class or so because I could do it for free. But, yeah, but um, but I didn't go, you know, it wasn’t likeMcClatchey: Right, enrolled? McCarthy: -pursuing a degree McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: or anything like that. It was just for fun. And then I finished over here at Towson. McClatchey: Ok. What year did you graduate? McCarthy: It was pretty late because after, I got, we got back from Cornell, I, we decided to have children. And I was pretty much set, we both were in agreement that a parent, one of us should be home full-time until they went to college. So I did that. So once they went to college, while they were in college, I also was going to school. So I graduated in 1997 I think it was. McClatchey: OK, well. McCarthy: Yeah, huh. McClatchey: So, kind of going back to high school a little bit, what, can you describe kind of a typical day in high school for you? McCarthy: A typical day would be, we walked to school, there was no bus. So, my walk to school was about a mile and a half. And so at my high school had a morning session, afternoonbut I had to go to both. It wasn't like you go to either. We got to school at around 7:30. Then we �6 left at 11:30 to go home for lunch, return at 1:00 and then from there we went until 4:00. And so, a typical day was making that walk, whether it was, well in the morning it wasn't too hot but we do get heavy rain storms uh, in the afternoon, whether you were making that walk with, under the sun or bad weather, heavy rains, going to school. And then, we will go from, whatever classes we had to take and the classes were different every [McCarthy notices McClatchey looking behind her to see time on oven] McCarthy: (whispers) Do you need a watch? McClatchey: (whispers) Oh no, you’re fine. I can see the, the time there. McCarthy: Ok, ok. McCarthy: They were, uh, the classes were different. It's not like you go to the same class over here. You go, maybe, I would have taken maybe French it might have been like Tuesdays and Thursday, but the other, you know the other day at the same period I might have had science. You know, likeMcClatchey: A little like college. McCarthy: So it's like, more like college, college in that sense. We moved the class, we had a one class together and we moved from classroom to class-uh, no, we stay in the classroom the teacher will come in. We were responsible for cleaning the class, keeping the classroom clean. Um, other than that, uh, the uh, days, just like over here at Centennial [high school where McCarthy taught and Caleb attended] where you guys will gather in the cafeteria before class, right? McClatchey: Yeah, or hallways, cafeteria. McCarthy: A lot of, or the hallways, the media center. We didn't have, you know, most people gather up front of the, like in the front of the school and wait. You know and that’s that where they waited until the bell rung and then they went to their res- you know their classes. And um, it wasn’t really, that was pretty much a typical day. McClatchey: And after school endedMcCarthy: Oh excuse me. Another, anoth- no, we didn't eat lunch there, so we had to go home, eat lunch and return. So we didn't have a cafeteria. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: Yeah, there was not a cafeteria. McClatchey: Ok. So you're walking aboutMcCarthy: Another- �7 McClatchey: 6 miles total? McCarthy: It was, yeah, we, we were very healthy. Just like the children are now because they have to walk a lot too. So um, so there was a lot of walking. Sometimes a friend with a family that-I didn't have a car so- but a family that had a car might still recognize me because of my parents, they would stop and give me, yeah, give me a ride. McClatchey: That’s nice. McCarthy: So yeah, something like that. But usually had to walk. Yeah, so. McClatchey: And so, like after school ended, what were maybe like, what would your kind of, your afternoon, evening look like? McCarthy: Well, after school ended, we went home because we didn't have the afte-rschool activities that you have here, like sports. The only sport that is played in the school that I remember was basketball. But that was during gym, but there wasn't the after school activities of teams, you know, OK, one school against the other. So you had to have your own after-school activities. Mine were, really my parents were very big on keeping busy and helping a lot around the clas-the house. So mine really went back to house chores [cell phone begins ringing] that I had to do. And, uh, so I'm meeting, you know, with friends, sometimes friends will come to study in the early evening we will study together or I will go to their home and study, but um, nothnothing after school. Yeah. McClatchey: Kind of talking in general about Panama, the culture there, how would you describe the culture? I know, I know you already kind of talked about in your town. McCarthy: Yeah, it's a very typical of any other Latin country. You went to Mexico. You know, the people can be very like, super friendly and a lot of terms of endearment, you know, like, like I will go and ask for directions to-everybody sweethearts you, (says in sweet tone) “amorcito”, “my love”, just “my dear one” like they, and nobody seems to take offense. That’s just the way people talk to one another. Even if they just met you and you're asking for directions, that's just how they talk. And so, that type of a culture, like I mentioned before, and that might be different now, but helping one anotherMcClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: -watching out for the people. I know that in my home there was a family across that didn't have much. There was an older couple, so my mother would make extra food and I will take it there for them. But, when my mother had to work evening shifts, my neighbor was just as aware as my mother was as to what I was doing or not doing, or should be doing, or shouldn't be doing. It’s a, a happy country. Few people, I think, leave because of that. They like to celebrate a lot and even when the situation is bad, for example, when Torrijos took over as a dictator-and I was living in Panama at that time, I was a teenager-when he took over, I remember initially it was, I had a lot of fear because I was at church at the time and I had to walk home and they had �8 the curfew, 9:00. And even though it, I could tell that I had more than enough time to make it home, I didn't think I was going to. So we were really, I was running-I never run-running (both laugh) and walk, running and walk, and I was terrified. But even during those times, people would have parties. They just knew that if you had a party, the people that you invited had to stay overnight because of the curfew. And so, but they still celebrated. And we hadMcClatchey: That’s awesome. McCarthy: You know, life went on. Yeah. Happy. McClatchey: Can you talk a little bit more about kind of that time in, in Panama? McCarthy: That time? McClatchey: Yeah, with, under the dictator. McCarthy: That time there. Yeah, like I said, yeah, like I said, it was, it was scary. It happened, I think it was, like. 7:00, and it happened in my town. That's where they took over, that's where they, yeah, where they did. It. And so and they had, it was scary because they say if you are on the street after 9:00 we're just going to shoot you. McClatchey: Oh my. McCarthy: And it's the type of world that you know that is not a threat. So you grow up knowing that when they say that, they mean it. So you're terrified. Now, when I went back, you know, in school, teenagers like we had the teenagers over here walking when they have, you know, when they have like rec-recently they're walking because of the conflict in Gaza, right. They, they do the walk outs. And I'm sure you participated in some. Over there, it wasn't so much doing the walkout. But more like teenagers will get involved. So I remember going downtown with a group of adults to protest the, the military takeover. And I actually went with one of my teachers, I'm even surprised. Can you imagine a teacher over here saying, “Come on and get in my car. We're going to go through that line.” And we crossed the line and there were a lot of bombs that were thrown. Those uh, tear McClatchey: Tear gas? McCarthy: Yeah, yeah, right. And so I can’t even think-I think I'd be terrified to do that now. But as a teenager we became very involved in the protesting, marching and so. But life become very scary because people were turning other people in and they were doing that sometimes for to help themselves. To get in grace with that government and get a job. And other times because they didn't like somebody, they were doing it like that. My mother lost her job because of that, not because anybody turned in her in, but because what happened is, after the takeover, some people went to the mountains and there were, like rebels that were fighting and fighting the police to regain, like, the, the government back and so there were, we knew that that was �9 happening and my mother was supposedly talking in code with a friend, on the phone talking about how many baby chicks died? And I guess it's not really much of a code (laughs) McClatchey: Yeah (laughs) McCarthy: So both of them lost their job, and so my father had family of influence that had money. I didn't have money, but they had money and were influential in the government, so they got her the job back but what they did was that they put her to work in a different town right next door to the police station. So they could keep an eye on her McClatchey: Oh, wow. McCarthy: Right, until she retired. But there was a lot of uncertainty, a lot of fear. I was told that you couldn't talk. Just don't talk to anybody. Don't voice your opinion. Because you will hear the, the news and you will hear about a priest disappear. Or a person disappeared, and somebody who was against the, the regimen, the military. And then the next day you will say, well, an ear was sent to the radio station that was from this person. So they will start sending like, parts (McClatchey makes disgusted sound) of the body, so it's very gross and mind boggling, like the sick things that went on. Like they’re very nasty things that you don't hear over here. Cruel a lot of, yeah, so for that reason I was told, you don't talk to anybody, you don't voice opinions, you just have to be careful. Don't even look at a policeman the wrong way because they might take offense to it and so. Yeah. So it was, it was tense, it was bad. Um, and then that person was, during one of my visits was um, I'm sure he was killed because he's, the plane that he was on a little small plane just crashed. McClatchey: Who? Which person, sorry? McCarthy: Then the one that took over Torrijos. Yeah. And then Noriega came after that. Noriega was the one I think that orchestrated his plane coming down and then he became the person. So there was a, Noriega didn't take over, it was somebody else. McClatchey: And you said that happened over your town, or? McCarthy: Er they took over my town. McClatchey: No you said the plane crashed? McCarthy: No, not in my town, but in the mountains. McClatchey: Ok McCarthy: I think he was coming to my town, but it was in the mountains at the province right before. But I was visiting with my daughters, they were young. I was afraid, I said, don't talk, don't talk, not in, not in English. Because when anything like that happens if you're an American, you want to hide and I, I'm not American, but that, that's it. Don't use English, just don't talk. McClatchey: And just so, just to get a sense of the timeline here around when did they? �10 McCarthy: When did they take over? Again, I came over here in 69 so that might have been, that might have happened 1966 or 67 and, and I'm not a historian. I don’t, but I'm just estimating based on when I came over. McClatchey: Ok, and yeah I mean I can like check. McCarthy: Yeah, right. You can check it out. But it was in theMcClatchey: So your last few years in Panama. McCarthy: My last few years, well I would say my last probably two or three, three years. So it's 1966, 67. Yeah, mhm. McClatchey: And so, kind of transitioning from there. What, what can you tell me about your like immigration experience? McCarthy: Mhm. Ok. With the immigration experience, I'd like to combine that one with my sister’s, if that's OK. McClatchey: OK, sure. McCarthy: Because most people that we know of, like when we talk about immigration or we see immigration over here we have that picture of people at the border trying to cross over. And they're coming from horrible situations. That wasn’t my case. I didn't walk, I didn't cross the border illegally. My mother was a very strong woman and both my parents really, we didn't have any money. We were very poor and I can mention that it, you know, explain that a little bit later. We were very poor. So my mother decided that my sister, being the older one, was going to come to the states. She didn't know how it was going to happen. But she knew that we were going to come. So one day she was looking at her bank account, the little money that she had saved, and they had made a mistake on her account. So she went to the bank and said, Sir, you made a mistake, you have given me $5000 extra that are no mine. So I'm here for you to correct the mistake. So the bank teller did the correction. So when my sister, when it was time for my sister to come to the states, my mother, she didn't have the money. My father didn't have the money. So she went to the bank to borrow money. So the bank teller was now the loan, the person that was giving the loans. So she went to him and said I need to borrow money so that my daughter can go to the states to study. So he says, I remember you, You're a very honest lady so, and, you know, put the loan through. So that was for one semester. So my mother got the money. My sister came to the states and she finished college through that loan, you know, like the next time my mother would go say, well, I haven't paid the loan yet, I don't know how to get the money. And he goes no problem, we just borrow ex-, we borrow extra, pay that one and then keep the loan going. So. �11 What, ok. So that's how my mother sent my sister here and that will be tied to me, you know in a little bit. Um, what people don't know sometimes like is that, well, what we see is people that travel long ways to come to the States and go through horrible things, and some of them died. But not much is said about people that stay behind. So my mother, the two of us, my parents, were divorced and had divorced at that time. So the two of us were left behind. My mother was using pretty much every little penny that she made to pay as much on that loan so she could get the next one to keep my sister here. So what that meant for the two of us is that there wasn't really that much to eat. So my mother would buy (pauses) a loaf of bread. Buy, you know, you can buy coffee, like a little containers and make like 2 cups of coffee. And she will make the 2 cups of coffee in the morning. She had a loaf of bread. She will cut it in half. And we would each have a fourth of that loaf with the coffee, and that was our breakfast. And then lunch, there wasn't really a lunch. And then we would go to dinner time. My mother would take the coffee grounds from that coffee. Now she will make two other cups of coffee (McClatchey laughs), which were very weak, right? You can only imagine. Probably see-through coffee. And you know, you add milk to that. And then the other bread, the bread that was leftover. And that was the, the meal. So there was a lot of sacrifice, a lot of, I began to, myself as a teenager, look for ways that I could earn money. And so one of the priests in my church had written a book that he was selling. He was selling for $0.60. He told me. He said you can go home to home and sell it for $0.60, you get to keep $0.10. So I said, OK. So I went house to house selling these books. And then with the, the, the first time I sold the books, I remember going to the store, but you had the $0.10. So I sold one book and I had those $0.10. So you could go to the little corner store and at that time you could buy $0.05 of rice and that will give you like [gestures amount] and five cents of beans. And so, and then I went home and cooked them and surprised my mother with a meal. The other option, and I remember thinking well, I could buy a coke for a nickel and I could buy a sweet for a nickel (McClatchey laughs), like a little pastry, right. McClatchey: Yeah. McCarthy: But I don't, you know, nobody likes being hungry. So the other one would last longer, and it was more nutritious. So that and then I will go to my, I told you my grandmother lived nearby, like, go 2 houses down. So I will go there and my grandmother will, will feed me because she knew what was going on, you know, like, what, you know was happening. But it was a lot and people question you like, how is she doing that? How is she doing that? Then my sister went back, you know, went back to the Panama, work for a while and then came back. And so now it was my turn to come to the states. So, again, there wasn't that much money because my mother was making, you know, I think it was like $55 a month or something. It was just really nothing. So, um, she worked for the telegraph company. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: Yeah. So, so in any case, so she couldn't buy the airline ticket for me to come here. So the only way that she could buy the ticket was in this program: you fly now and pay later type �12 of thing. So she got the ticket and then she had to pay monthly to that airline. And then I, my sister looked up that program in, in, um, Santa Barbara, CA where you go for two months and learn English. So my mother had, I don't even know how she got, she didn't get, she didn't have all the money. I remember she sent me with some of the money and she said to me, she said, just tell your sister she has to come up with the rest of the money. I remember, remember my sister was so surprised and not happy that she had to somehow suddenly come up with the rest of the tuition because my mother sent as much as she had. McClatchey: Was your sister there at the time, too, in Santa Barbara? McCarthy: My sister. Yeah. My sister was living in Los Angeles. McClatchey: OK. McCarthy: Yeah, she was working and living there at that time with her husband. So, so I went to that program. But so when after I finished that program and I went to the community college, I remember those memories from my sister being here were ingrained in my head. And I kept, it was hard for me, like she might have been able to enjoy her time when she was in Texas going to school because she didn't know what was happening at home. But I knew what had happened, so I didn't want to, you know, like my mother had to send me money for books and money for, I had to find, my sister helped me find a place to live. I was living with this family, but I, we had to pay her. And so whenever I was so worried about that that, that I ended up leaving that home and putting an ad in the paper and looking for a place where I could live, get a room in exchange for either cleaning or babysitting. So I did get that. It was within walking distance to the school where I babysat and helped with the cleaning of the house and I didn't have to pay for my room because I, that was so ingrained my- what we lived through my sister was so ingrained in my head that I didn't want my mother to go through more years like that. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: So I wanted to minimize that. And so, um. (pauses) Now. So that's my, that was my coming over here. So it's not, it wasn't a hardship of having to walk many miles and waiting at the border. The hardship was, for me was when my sister was here, there was a hardship of having to do without because she was here. McClatchey: Sure, yeah. McCarthy: And then that guilt of being here while my mother is there. And I had no choice, I mean, I didn't want to come here. But I had no choice, as, you know, in that culture you they tell you this is what you're going to do and there is no discussion. Right, so. McClatchey: So that, that kind of takes me to my next question which is, why, why did you immigrate? So, I mean, it sounds you’ve kind of mentioned it. �13 McCarthy: Right, it was, yeah, it was, I wanted to go, believe it or not I wanted to go to Russia. And the reason is tied to my sister, all this is tied to my sister. Because at the time that I was getting ready to graduate, Russia had gone to my little town and was looking, like doing the propaganda, looking for students to go to Russia. So they were offering a really good deal, I thought. My mother just didn't go for it. She actually got mad that I even suggested it. But they were going to pay my college education, everything room, board, everything. And in addition to that, they were going to give her a monthly check to my mother to help her and I thought well, you don’t have to go hungry. You don't have to, we don't, you don’t have to do what you did with my sister, right? McClatchey: Right. McCarthy: And, but I had to go back. I, I didn't have the option of staying in Russia if I liked it. I had to go back. So I knew that was propaganda because you go back and you talk about it and it makes them look good and all that stuff. But my mother got really upset when I suggested it. So that's where I wanted to go but she said, you know, you're going to the states. And that was it. Not up to you-not up for discussion, yeah. McClatchey: In your first few, so once you got to the States and when, were in community college, you, you stayed right? Like you didn't come back like your sister? Or I mean like maybe trips, but like you were there permanently then? McCarthy: I had to stay because we didn't, my parents didn't have the money for me to go and visit. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: Yeah. Same, same when my sister was over, she couldn't. She cried she wanted to go back and she wanted to go and visit. I, you know she, well, we didn't hear her cry, but she wrote letters where she was begging to go and visit, but there wasn't enough money for that. So the, the answer was always no. McClatchey: Yeah. In your first few years in the United States, what, what stood out to you as most different from Panama? McCarthy: A lot of things were so different, very different. I guess (pauses) even I'm going to go back to the first, you know, my first two months when I was in that program. Um, I mean, not necessarily people related, but more language related was that I wanted, I was so accustomed to assigning everything a gender that I remember being like, stop. I would begin talking about the pretty table. She's so, I like her, you know, she's so, the, her colors are really pretty and she's so, you know, beautiful and you know. And, and so people will stop and that, that was like a conversation stopper. McClatchey: Ah. �14 McCarthy: And people would be confused. So I remember, like, grammatically that was the one thing that always it took me, maybe one of the first self-correcting things that I did because it would, because people stop and question it. McClatchey: Sure, yeah. McCarthy: So it's like one of the first things that I started to correct. As far as culturally? The thing that really stood out for me was like I was so used to people just dropping by the house whenever. And so you always have to be ready that anybody would show up. And my mother will be like, [hits table multiple times emphatically] the house has to be cleaned by 9:00 because anybody could come. So that was my job duty. We had tile flooring because it's humid so you couldn't really have carpet. It wasMcClatchey: Mhm. McCarthy: Yeah so. So those tiles, thetile flooring had to be swept every day, had to be mopped every day and everything had to be perfect. That's because people might come and you don't want to be messy. And because people would just drop. Anytime. They could be walking and they go, oh, I think I want to see Maria. And they would just stop. With us over here, I noticed that people didn't like that. That was, what I call appointment making. Like you told me, you know, we talked about you coming at 1:00, right? [The time of the interview] McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Right. So, and I had to get used to that, to arrange my life with letting people know when I was going to be someplace, if I was going to be. And maybe ask, not just say. Because people don't ask, they just show up. McClatchey: That's really interesting. That’s a big difference. McCarthy: Yeah, that they just, they might even go from one city like Panama City, they will go to David and they will just call my mother and say, Maria, I'm going to be there for the weekend so I'll see you, I mean, get that room ready for me. (McClatchey laughs) So there was not any, Can I come over? Is it convenient for you? None, none of that. And then the other thing that you have might, you might have noticed when you went to Mexico, Mexico is the proximity, you get close to people when you talk. It’s closer and arms around, or like they're teasing, more affectionate. So those are the, like, I guess what stood out as far as people. There were a lot other things but they were more physical. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: You know, like the homes, the way things work. Not understanding, being confused coming from a place that wasn't really up to, was very old, didn’t have doorbells (laughs), didn't have a lot of things that were confusing to me. �15 McClatchey: Ok, so also in this first few years did you, I know you said you didn't get a chance to travel backMcCarthy: Mmm, no. McClatchey: Did you keep any other connections to Panama in any way or to your family? McCarthy: Um yes, through letters. Because again, you know, it was too expensive to call. For, I for me to call or for them to call me. Now, it's easier to, you know, and it's not as expensive nowadays, but at that time it was. It was a lot through letters. And I kept in contact with my mother and my, some of my cousins, friends through letters writing, yeah. The art of writing letters, which is forgotten by now, yeah. McClatchey: Yeah. McCarthy: Yeah, mhm. McClatchey: And so kind of since those initial years you, you said you call more now. Are there any other ways since then that you've kind of kept that connection going? McCarthy: Um, (pauses), once I was out of that, once I was able to work and was able to earn money and then I was making phone calls, I was calling. So you know, like you could, I would get those calling cards, the little calling cards that I don't know that they even exist anymore, that you will pay like for, supposedly you could talk for three hours. You use them once for 20 minutes and it was gone. Like they, no, they never really work the way they were supposed to work, but that's what I used for calling. I would go to the Latin stores and get those. But um, but it wasn't even that often. It was more like for birthdays or different celebrations that we will call each other, right? McClatchey: Um, did you ever visit, eventually? McCarthy: Yes. Once, once I decided to, once I was going to get my green card, for me to get the green card, because I'm from this continent, I couldn't get it and staying here. I had to leave the country and reenter. So it could have been, I didn't have to go to Panama, I could have gone to Mexico and re-enter, but I chose and I had the money to go to Panama. So I went to Panama, visited, and then re-entered to get a green card. And then after that I was, you know, I started to visit and then my mother would also come and visit. McClatchey: So you had to re-enter to get the green card? McCarthy: Right? That's one of the differences between the European countries and the Americas is that in, if I had been from Spain, like a Spanish, um, I would have been able to get my green card here without having to go back to Spain. But in this continent you have to leave and reenter. McClatchey: Interesting. �16 McCarthy: Isn't that? Yeah, yeah. McClatchey: So do, was this that, just, was that just something that you would get as you’re crossing back in sort of thing? Like, or why, why is it that you had to go back and come back? Or is that just how it works. McCarthy: It's just the way that the laws are. I always found that interesting the way that the laws are. I don't know, but you have to exit and reenter. And of course, the paperwork is already done. You know, all the paperwork is done prior and then, to some extent, and then I get the ca-, I go to the embassy in Pan- the U.S. embassy in Panama and then finalize it and then I get the card and then I re-enter. I had to re enterMcClatchey: OK. McCarthy: But I cannot get it here, I had to leave the country. McClatchey: Interesting. McCarthy: Yeah. And I don't know that that has changed, but that's the way it was when I got the green card. McClatchey: Do you remember around what year that was? When, when you first went back and got the green card? McCarthy: (pauses) Let me see. Go back to 75, 74. Might have been 70…69…72. McClatchey: OK, so about three years after you arrived in the U.S. McCarthy: Yeah, right. McClatchey: Um, kind of transitioning to like your career and just what you've done here in the US, can, can you tell me about the occupations you've had here, both maybe professionally and also, you know, being, being a mother? McCarthy: Right. Well, yeah, the number one occupation was being a mother, I enjoyed that a lot. I like, I like young kids. I like kids. I like the humor, even when they're being mischievous, they are funny and no different toddlers no different than teenagers, but they're, they're like, very much alike. Yeah. Um, but I, (pauses) being a mother, I guess before when I was at school, I worked as a, in the language lab for a while. Uh, I have to make money somewhere with when I was going to school. Believe it or not I painted to make money to pay for tuition. Paint their homes, clean homes, mhm, in the summer to gather enough money to pay for my tuition. Sort of forget about that, was thinking about it recently, but yeah. Yeah, the cleaning some of their homes, were like, the stove where I was like, I don't know that I can clean that stove (McClatchey laughs) because people will call to get the house cleaned for the wedding, for example, and then you have to do all this cleaning that has, had not been done for years. �17 But before I became, before I went to work in high school, I worked as, in the preschool, because I like that age, that was the age that I felt the most comfortable with. Because they were not tall like you (laughs), so, they were little and they were cute and they, you know, I like the way that they look at the world. So I worked in a preschool for many years and then after that, in church, I was asked to work with teenagers. And not work for money but like, you know, as part of mom, my, one of the things that I did in church was for, it was teenagers. And that's when I realized, came to the realization that they were just really bigger toddlers. And so when I went to college, that's where I decided to go and get a degree on, (thinking) eighth through twelfth once I felt comfortable, otherwise I would have gone with elementary school. But through the church and working with the teenagers, I realized that they’re just big toddlers. And so, so after that I worked, went to work at the high school. But before then, I took, for two years, I volunteered, no money. I volunteered, you know, at the, with the hospice in Howard County. And I also, in the school, when my kids were going to school, I was usually the room mother. Prepare all those parties and get stuff together for the, the school. And um, Girl Scout leader, did things that I don't like to do, like sleep in the, in the park going to, you know, taking the kids to sleep over. So I did a lot of things, volunteered, some of it was volunteered and some others I got some money. Like for the preschool I got money, not really, money like to go out to lunch. They don't really pay that much, even the teachers, they don't pay them that much. McClatchey: And so when, you said up until your kids went to college, were you, you primarily staying at home? McCarthy: I was a stay-home mom and I do, during that time I, you know, either volunteered at the school, sometimes if I wasn’t a room mom, I will volunteer to go and give a talk or help with something, organize something. I was a Girl Scout leader, I volunteered at a Hospice, um, you know I use, I, because I will get bored at home, I guess. Yeah. So I will try to find something to do. Yeah. McClatchey: Sounds like you did like a variety of stuff. McCarthy: Yeah, right, yeah. McClatchey: Can you talk a little bit about your experience, like teaching, in the US? McCarthy: Oh, I love teaching. I guess it's, I guess I always view teaching not so much as teaching the content more than I saw it more as a, molding a person to be the most that they can be. And sometimes that didn't go too well with some students. But I just felt that, I don't know if you, I don't think you were in a class where I would give my little lectures about the students putting their head on the, on the desk. And, you know, and I would be like guys, I’m going to stop right now. You're going to pretend that you're at work. And you really hate your boss. You don't like the job. But you're going to sit there and you're going to look interested. And you’re �18 going to, you know, you don't let them know, you don't put your head down. You, you know, it's like a little acting job, I said. And this is a practice for that. So. (both laugh) But they didn't, you know, some, some students didn't like that. But that was really the main thing that I saw that, because in my personal life I had teachers that made a difference in my life. And they were not necessarily always my favorite teachers. And so I, I enjoyed the teaching for that reason. And then when it comes to teaching the subject, I enjoy when the students were able to use the language, that brought me a lot of enjoyment, it was, it really when I would hear them speak. That was very rewarding. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Yeah. When I heard that you went to Mexico, even though you did that on your own, but you, I taught you for two years I was like, oh my gosh, so good. Or, uh, Mr. Ahearn’s, his daugh-I taught his, well he has four children, but I taught three. The other one went to private school. But I taught, Riley became a Spanish teacher. And now she's, she went from Spanish to ESOL, she's working with ESOL teaching. But I taught her and I taught her husband too. McClatchey: That's awesome. McCarthy: Yeah. So when they got married, they invited me, but I didn’t the wedding. But yeah, so when I see that that the kids, they don't have to major in the language, but if they use it and if I could help them be a better person, I guess, that's the way I side more so than teaching the content, yeah. McClatchey: Sure, that sounds very fulfilling to know that, kind of, you made an impact on that and helped. McCarthy: But yeah, yes. McClatchey: Yeah, to do that, yeah. McCarthy: Yeah, yes, yeah, and some of that, you know, it's, you know, I saw some of the students. You cannot impact, you cannot make an impact on everybody. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Yeah, but then I saw some results with some of the students that have very low self esteem, some of them didn't think that they were smart. And there is one that, he friended me on Facebook recently that, I, he wrote, it's funny because I was reading this note that he wrote to me. And it was one of the nicest notes-this is before your time-there was some kind of like poetry competition in this, in the system, county and I had them, you know, I could have them memorize like a short poem, but it was, what’s the point in that? So I had them memorize a long poem that was very, had a lot of rhythm to it, that it was easy to memorize because of that. So we memorized that, and then they had to compete through the, with the, within the school, and then one person was selected and they had to go to the county and compete with all the other schools. �19 So, Oji I think was the kids name, what, so in any case, he, you know, he wasn’t like the most studious student. And he was smart and I used to talk with him all the time, and I said you’re so smart. If you just, you know, do like, you know, it was. But even after he left my class, I will talk with him every so often about that. But in any case, he was chosen to be the one from Centennial to compete. So I went with him to the competition and he had a drum and he was drumming and he won the county competition thing. So he wrote a very nice, wrote me a very nice note about that, how that he felt like I had followed his career like, because I used to call him and said come on, do your stuff. And so, but yeah, so that kind of stuff is rewarding. So, but um, and that's what I miss. I don't really miss the adults, or the system. Yeah, but that's it. McClatchey: So, I mean, obviously you taught Spanish so that, you know, your background helped you in that, but in general, how did or did being an immigrant kind of impact your experience teaching? And if so, how so? McCarthy: Well, the, the being, knowing the language is actually not, it's not a, as a positive thing, in a sense. Maybe with the AP class helps. But with the initial, like the level one, two and three, I would say the first couple of years that I taught, I was not really, didn't do a good job with that because when you, that's your first language, you take a lot of things for granted. And you explain and you think it's understood. So it's better like to, you know, it took me a couple of years to put myself in the American mind. Like the American mind, how you might be looking at something. Because to me it was common sense that you get rid of the -ar and put the endings. But that was confusing, and some of the things that, the mistakes that the students made didn't make sense to me. But once I started to pay attention, I go, OK, that's what makes sense to them. So when I explained it, I have to look at that angle, I cannot be looking at it from mine. And so that, you know, knowing the language was maybe not a positive thing at the beginning. But as an immigrant, um, that's a hard question. As an immigrant, how did that? McClatchey: And maybe and maybe it didn't, I'm just. McCarthy: No, but no, because I never even thought about it. But now, um, well (thinking) as an immigrant, it helped me get a job because people mis-, people think that because you know Spanish, that it’s going to really be helpful in the job so it helped me in that sense. And it gave me credit, helped with the credibility with parents, at least those early years when I really should have not been given so much credit for it. But you know, but also, as an immigrant, I guess, even though I didn't understand the, the language differences completely, it helped me with having the base on how I learn English. Try to explain that to the students and sometimes there was a year where that didn't go too well and the class was like disappearing because they were terrified. And they were terrified because I said, you know, you knew that in my class you had to use Spanish, right? And I made it like that because that's how I learned English. I mean, I was in a, in a program where it would have been so easy for them to let me use Spanish. But I couldn't even eat without using English. They were told, if she doesn't use English, she doesn’t get food. McClatchey: Oh, wow. �20 McCarthy: So, I had to, the workers in the cafeteria were told that because I used to just go and point. And they were nice, they used to give to me (McClatchey laughs), but then they were told that I had to call it by name because they had the name there. So I understood at one point that in order to learn the language, you had to put it to use. So, in that sense, maybe that's one takeaway, take from, being an immigrant, knowing that you had to use the language. Because some people are here for a very long time and they don't learn English because they're afraid to use it. But the, just like in the class, some people don't want to use it because they don't want to be embarrassed, right? But the less you use it, the less you learn it, because you have to put it to use for your mind to start making all those connections that need to be made to then, and then to self-correct as you go along so that, that will be I think, one thing that I was very big, I don't know that, I don't know that any other teacher was. Mrs. Comito [another Spanish teacher at our former high school] now is. Mrs. Comito yeah she calls me now, she, we talk every day. So she asked me, what was the, the thing that you did so that they will use Spanish in the class. And so, but I think that would be the takeaway, because I was in a situation where, in the program that I went to, besides not being able to get food unless I call it by name, I was the person that knew the least Spanish. So the American people that were participating in that group, for credit I'm sure, whenever they saw me, they had to talk to me in English. And they would have to go, this is a table, what is it? And I had to say, this is a table. So at the end of the day my head was like, I hurt because there were like, I, I was avoiding people. I would be getting off the elevator and I saw somebody and I would (laughs) hit the next floor. To avoid them, I will pretend to be asleep when my roommate will come to the room, because I just, I can't deal with it, I don't want to, I don't want anybody to ask me anymore questions. Right? And so, so I guess I realized that you had to use it, so that might be some take. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Because also my career, I pretty much pushed the use of the language in the classroom. McClatchey: I definitely, I like that aspect of your classes. Even in college, there's some professors who push that more than others. AndMcCarthy: Right. McClatchey: I think it helps when they when they do push it, yeah. McCarthy: Yeah, you have to use it, otherwise, you can’t, yeah. McClatchey: And then one of my, my final, one of my like 2 questions left. What, what would you say is your current occupation? What, what do you now? McCarthy: Well, being re- you know, I'm doing a lot of things. Didn't you work outside? Didn't you mow lawns? I remember you mentioned that youMcClatchey: In high school, yeah. �21 McCarthy: Yeah, I remember you said that. I don't know if you noticed when you came in, I can show you, like a, there's like a, river bed, or like, I I'll show you when we go outside. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: But I, I work, I love working outside. So I, there is a water issue around here that with the way the water runs. So I decided to make the house more water safe. So, I, I went, went around the perimeter of the house and, but I used plastic, I don't know if I'm supposed to use plastic or not, and then I put the rocks, pebbles and put them all around. And then on the front on one side I created like a, like a almost like a riverbed that goes to the side to take the water that way. And then I'm supposed to, this year, do the other side, but now I have a conflict with that. But so, so my jobs really right now I have a couple of jobs. One is to keep active physically and enjoy being, you know, like I go for walks, like I work outside. And then being a grandmother. I have two teenager teenage grandchildren. One of them is a boy and he's a little bit, um, I don't know, he’s had some uh, difficulties. He's a very good student, he gets all A’s, hates school. So first when I call him, when I call him, he goes, what, what do you want. Because that's how I talk to him, so he, you know, we can relate with that kind of silliness. And I told him one day, I said be nice, I'm a senior citizen, I could, I could report you (laughs). So, but so, I think I see my job as being, because he, he has, he's at the age where he's having difficulty with his parents, like not in agreement. He's not in agreement with the church. You're going to church and he's not ateverything is boring, but, especially church. And, although he's going to go to a church camp on his own, his decisions, I don't know. How is that any different? Uh, mom? My daughter read a book and she says some boys at that age-I don't know that that's all boys, I cannot imagine you doing that-cannot stand the, the voice of the mother and they think that the fathers are jerks. So that's the book that she read. And so they get into these silly arguments and I don't get it. And so he, you know, I'm his person to go to, so like, his support and then the same thing with my granddaughter. So I see my role as a grandparent being, you know, like I'm there for all the games. They moved to Frederick so tomorrow I'm driving to Frederick for a basketball game. I don't even, it's not, I don't know if, what part of Frederick it is. It might be like an hour, an hour and a half driving. Then I go to the little girl is [intelligible] age, so she has all this, you know, the fair, all these things. You know the viola, we’re gonna, they have all these concerts, she plays the viola. And so I, that's what I see, it's like my, that, being that grandparent trying to be that grandparent, grandmother that my grandmother was to me. Because she was very, I felt like she saved me many ways. I want to be that grandparent to them. And on that, because of that, which is why that's going to have to be postponed, that other part of it, I bought a house in Frederick. McClatchey: Ohhh, wow. McCarthy: Umm, actually, I just settled on the house yesterday. McClatchey: Exciting. �22 McCarthy: Because I want to be closer. Because it's a 45 minute drive for where they live, so sometimes, (pauses) when Sean has a bad day… but I have a feeling that he walks that fine line (pauses) like that and so. What is that he told me he got called to the office, andd he was so mad, he says, they're blaming me for stuff I didn't do (makes crying noise). I said, ok, what did you do? Or what, you know, but they were accusing him of something they actually, he actually had not done. But they did, you know, but they were too close to, to they made the call without really investigating. Once they investigated they find out who did it and who was at fault. But, but he's a little rebel. He doesn't like so, so I'll be there. He asked me if I if I will buy a basketball hoop and I said sure, I can have basketball hoop. I said I'll beat you (McClatchey laughs). Yeah. So that's my main role. And then of course, in addition to that, I like to keep, I like to play Sudoku. I like to do that. I like to do the, the word games, uh New York Times. McClatchey: The Wordle. Yeah. OK. McCarthy: The Wordle, the Connections that really is not connections. Do you do that? McClatchey: Yeah, I’ve played that. Yeah, I don't play it often but yeah, I’ve played it. McCarthy: Yesterday one group was name of animals backwards. What is that? (McClatchey laughs) I mean, I wouldn’t-just stretching that thing. So yeah, so just keeping, try to keep active. Like I said, I do a lot of walk, you know, with the neighbors if they need help, I help them. I have been in this neighborhood for 30 some years, so pretty much know the older neighbors and then the young ones too. There's a little kid, little toddler over there (motions behind her house) that comes to visit me in the summer and comes to water the plants in the summer. McCarthy: But yeah, so just um, keeping busy. I think it's important to keep busy no matter what age, there is always room to grow. And learn. McClatchey: Yeah. McCarthy: Yeah. McClatchey: That’s awesome, sounds like you still live a very full life. McCarthy: Yeah, I have to do, I was asked to work at a, another school like a private school, but that, that’s where Reily Ahearn used to work, so that, that lady who was in charge, we worked together before so she knows me. I think I, I taught her daughter when she was in preschool. But I think I'm ok not going to work. I go to visit Centennial, though. McClatchey: Oh do you? McCarthy: I go, yeah. I have to go, probably go next week sometime again. I usually bring them lunch, uh, my little department. Is this enough now that we finish? McClatchey: Yeah, I will. Yeah, I just have one, one question to wrap up. McCarthy: Ok, one more question. �23 McClatchey: Yeah. And then we can go after that. So just last question to wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to tell me as part of the interview before we finish? McCarthy: Well, that, the only thing that I always say is on my mind is that, people don't understand, you know, like, I always feel that there is that, that we sometimes don't know the shoes that other people walk in, like we don't know, you know, tend to make assumptions that people are coming here, you know as to why people come over. And I think that everybody, like through this, everybody has a story. You know, some people are escaping really bad situations. My, in my case, my mother wanted me to have a really good education that she didn't see, that she, it could be provided there because at the time that my sister and I went to school, there was only one university. And so it was limited space to go, to get in. And most of those spaces most likely would have been taken by those people that had connections, that had the money. So that would have left us out. So I think that was her motivation. You know, she wanted us to have that education and this is coming from a lady that finished her high school degree when I was going to high school. Because she hadn't, didn't have it. So she went at night, enrolled. So that was, you know, like, and so everybody come for a different reason and I think we just need to, you know, to think about that and not be so quick to criticize or make assumptions. Um, yeah so that, that's it. McClatchey: Thank you so much forMcCarthy: You're welcome. You're welcome. McClatchey: taking the time to do this, I learned a lot. I’ll end the recording now. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caleb McClatchey Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Argentina McCarthy Location The location of the interview Columbia, Howard County, MD, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Argentina McCarthy Description An account of the resource This interview between Caleb McClatchey and Argentina McCarthy explores Argentina’s adolescence in Panama and her adult life as an immigrant in the United States. Growing up in the small town of David, she speaks about Panamanian culture and navigating poverty and political turmoil in her teen years. Argentina intertwines her immigration experience with her older sister’s, recounting the sacrifices she and her mother made in Panama to allow her sister to immigrate first. While Argentina did not want to immigrate, she was forced to come study by her mother and arrived to the United States in 1969 at age 18. Argentina discusses her struggles learning English and making ends meet upon initially arriving. She highlights the different roles she has had in her time here: a stay-at-home parent, then a high school Spanish teacher, and now a grandparent. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Caleb McClatchey Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 1, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource pdf, jpeg, mp4 Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio immigrant Panama parent Poverty teacher https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/8101ab9d0933fc5e30e0bf4616ea2b9e.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=vKt6npYJYBeMKw%7EsqLqxqB%7Ek3sP9QDO1C9YTAsibiYYFA4WZXwEYsrR0GF8P3y8MXks-d-y8TZDNlkUd0BvLSqEPrCLTOyIxRZyh78IrQ1HPI14xWSP7gONVwpZjFQghvwrZnk3tHAhl8O4h83Dome-gecn5NZgI78e3Af9Q%7Exw0f-LSEoNk1v29I7bm8AWL21iLQ37va-aaMoDLPZys6GKWfYOoVgfPeWFLujmMrmwKN4jQ72mamLHMR5ZibJIPXJUqkadzIS6qYkEpbCqRdchZOfHBWS3Z9mxBVw0duj51aqWKtARj6I1aZZ7eAq9sVTgoOyrsGs2g8tHxSVXkMg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 08ca2efc5aebcb3dc49943609650babc https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/859fd4cdb9a9d04edc5c078c3eef28c9.m4a?Expires=1779926400&Signature=N2-6cSTlRTPas%7Exj35S9UsfRYrLHKf2nGbKZrFsKf367lV74spqdevcn-CMDrXTlQHPY3dp1YvtpIWRB4O-JTISMBsXxHqLBavqIJtovmbsrKQ8mYYiVow8T8kWLktywDUSZM8bb79n8Kt0lAQtMFufmVIM8Qzb4gbqK3Uzrz0EQTnvPdKaXkv4-1wDkF8yWVaPHy3W-pNTZZ1vk9SdjHKgC7MW5PDVyJvwUtDXv1qJG4i%7EfG9LJXYZDEVIM5Ii2cJHYMUP672HF%7EGdLaZx7uVUadvFsqIQBceuyiKL2VZ8dhXuN-m1W82uhVXMHK-yX8ts%7E4Z%7ErHJYkufZURX%7E6mw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM a37ba86aa2504976fb98b8db4bd437a0 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/152da5e26506db715f5db91563408783.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=lqR0bbof8jsK5uJNWUXeVnVMjHYg6r-JprlFmYoHRiamhS%7ENidUjCQzwZWPiXbA-aoQC3%7END-%7EkPINhEE7oD66aiI9kNd1O65nuZ7d4f2DjiZSRrfF6rzvssw01K3L-2kjy447v6HpLyWOx4Koh0p-OMNokjjUBquQmeE-B-3ia0x8ZMRQUjptBKYePiUL2MhDTw7Fs-3W1wdXwXYXXctMvYvZMD9JiF4sZSaQMGeS6215C55J-eQY0Jgf0MYX1UfoqW2wa1jgpV0683azy3YBu-W31Uo4HJQrM0HO0g9Hn4b%7EnIkR%7EMStrKCF%7EIe1mJ8w2r%7ELqxWr7%7EqlyNC6u1Qw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c24fb275a6c352e2b0315b5104021e4 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4f1721f28b6d47ba10296762a7279c74.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=VyPKDvYXXUGfoPGU9MHOrfqIb-qgGUD5Ct-p%7EqxLfjgLt3Ws15DcHRFE3zLT4rxj0HNUdolEhSzgsu2Egaw4%7ETMwbD2oRwJJQ6lgyRSekXusk6y8a4mKmz4PYURcGxDto1PZfJ7nl3p5fGIGn3djUnauBmS4DnSwG19Byh0AaXBPhHvP8UPVWuTqXCbqJX8y-utzLPP9PYfHNsrZRRdJ%7ELjQwI%7E0jIi%7EMCkiDxwZ4AevXYjfjoSgF9X4iuzwrC%7E9Ws-l0C1UH-soudiYYYJ8B2cQWIwC9voV94y32UMRUeO3%7ER9VnN98znV2EEtwdeGoyVTr6GcvBI5Hwwp6hIA54Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM d736b3e465ca2c4ada2f5e53782cb794 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/005201174d29d4911d2a9bac604b1309.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=jJ2gRP4NWQcO06rlhCzEfJdoYNNtACL92ZpUNyfxUgMJqGlrT6fAlpEMGKzaiYQCBrYz2ylgj-m1eAQ3crdS6H%7ETT6jI9OHnPVkb%7E76gvLwFgcVI0XVVS2OGmA1KjcHz82PUJoCPtAVFoNHErY5zMSpkOY5rwR9necm2wxbnIQyrZdl4zK3LeutijqTok%7EyICNyqZASmtELc8v3BDUOhFLT8txzSS-aewfSpOND3lYu0DLizABjroh%7EI2wUdywT5KNZU2mEEh0mOddwHDmslY5CpxsoIeppg0V7sy68Q%7E57XdAZ3dUZetTB1uraKb%7EReh9GNCa35TyByGKDGNlJf-w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 992d81ddefed7102182102fdb34dde1f PDF Text Text 1 Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course HIST 465-Spring 2024 Instructor: Dr. Anne S. Rush Interviewer’s name: Lori Zhao Interviewee’s name: Jiwu (George) Chen Narrator’s Country of Origin: China Narrator’s Current Residence: Ellicott City, Howard County, MD, U.S.A. Date of Interview: March 24, 2024 Place of Interview: Ellicott City, Howard County, MD, U.S.A. Introduction: This interview between Lori Zhao and George (nickname) Chen, a 61-year-old Chinese immigrant, explores George’s experience as a Chinese immigrant in the U.S. George was born in Tianjin, China, growing up under socialist China. As he grew up, China’s economic and political policy begin changing, which impacts George’s career opportunities and trajectories. George’s interview discusses differences between life in the U.S. and China, his educational background during China’s transitional period, and the different career trajectories taken during his life. Through the interview, we see that throughout George’s life, he has been continuously inspired by and embraces the freedoms that led him to make life-altering choices, following what he has wanted since childhood. Keywords: China, student, socialism, government, education, freedom, business Zhao: Hello, um-my name is Lori Zhao. Today is March 24th, 2024, and I'm here with Jiwu Chen. We are conducting an oral history interview at his home in Ellicott City. So, just to get started with some easy introduction questions, how are you today? Chen: Good. Zhao: Yes. Chen: It's a beautiful Sunday. Zhao: Yes. I did forget to add this is also my father. His legal name is Jiwu Chen, but his nickname is George. Chen: Yeah. �2 Zhao: Umm. Yeah, so you were just in China, like earlier this week, right? Chen: Yeah, I came back on March the twelve, like two weeks ago. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. How was the trip? Chen: Very good. It's my first trip this year. I had the same trip-uh, same kind of trip three times last year. I'm leaving for China again for Canton Fair on April the 17th. Zhao: Oh, okay. And you said that your son Daniel is going with you this time, right? Chen: Yeah, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. So when you go, are you just going to Canton in Guangzhou or other places? Chen: Canton is for business. It's a business trip, basically. The biggest trade show is in Canton. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: We will stay there for a week. And from there, maybe we uh, go different route. Daniel will go. He likes to see Shanghai, tour China, s-part of it. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Me, I may go to continue with my business trip to some factories. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Is Daniel going to be traveling by himself or are you traveling with him? Chen: Most part of the trip, he will stay with me. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And so for business, can you tell me a bit about the business that you do? Chen: Yeah. I'm in the wholesale dis-uh, distribution business. In fact, we import merchandise from China. Ah-we wholesale them here to the…gift shops, momma and poppa store, and garden centers, and gift shops and some big, ke-key chain stores like TJ Maxx, Home Goods, these kinds of things. �3 Zhao: Yeah. It sounds like your company should be very well known then. (Chuckles) Chen: Yeah. (both chuckle) Part of it. Zhao: Okay. Um, can you tell me your date of birth? Chen: Mm-hmm. I was born in 1962. Ah…I was born on October thirtieth, 1962. Zhao: Okay. Ah, what can you tell me about where you grew up? Chen: Yeah. The age where I was born was the communist China, 1960s, 70s up ‘till the late 1980s before China opened the door to the outside world. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, we're basically a very conservative kind of communist country, yeah, (Zhao: Okay) under communist China. Zhao: Yeah. And in China, where did you live? Can you describe the area or the community that you grew up in? Chen: I was born in the country, the-a village. Uh, it's about a hundred miles away from Beijing, the capital of China. And, uh, the living condition is pretty, I mean, backward compared with now, you know, 1960s communist China, you can imagine. But everything is okay. So we uh, live from hand to mouth, work for the, we call it brigade or the community. Uh, it's under communist, uh, rule (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and everybody has his own share and uh, very much ah, we lived happy, happy life. Yeah. Zhao: So, it sounds like collectivized agriculture almost, where it's like you-every co- every person in the community, I'm guessing, has like their own little patch of land. And that is what you use for your... Chen: Yeah, (Zhao: Okay) It's kind of uh, uh, everything is given: your share, your income through the community leaders. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, the community leaders, they chosen by the entire community and under communist rule. So, it's like, kind of utopia. It sounds kind of utopian. Zhao: That sounds amazing. (Laughs) Chen: Yeah, it sounds rea-but, uh. Yeah, you work, you do what you can. And then for me, my age, you know, from baby and then grew up and then kids in school are free up till I got my elementary, middle school, high school, everything is free. Uh, in Medicare, we don't really have kind of Medicare, but we don't really need medicine, uh-not kind of medicine. And (Zhao: Mmm, okay) so basically, the life is simple and uh, simple, easy. Yeah. �4 Zhao: And can you clarify really quickly? You said this is roughly one hundred miles outside Beijing. Chen: Mm-hmm. Zhao: Which province? Chen: Yeah, in Tianjin. Zhao: Tianjin? Okay. Chen: Tianjin is a…is a big city. Yeah it’s (Zhao: Mm-hmm) about- the city is like-uh… 40 miles away from Beijing. And we are under the municipal city of Tianjin, big Tianjin. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: And we are living in a small village. Zhao: Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So, what did a day in your life as a child look like? This can be when you were younger, middle school, high school. Chen: What do you mean day? Zhao: Like uh, how would your entire day look from when you wake up, you know, breakfast until you go to bed? Chen: Yeah, I was born in traditional family, you know. Uh, my mom cooked the breakfast, you know, when I was a kid, since I could remember something. And that's from the school age, you know, mom cooked the breakfast and dad left to work. And then out of breakfast, we go to school. It's a public school, and uh, everything is so simple. And school, basically, we don't have like first year, second year-grades, first grade, second grade. We have one classroom which is the size of, uh, let's say three hundred feet, square feet. And we have maybe two different grade merged in one class, in one classroom, and some classes, maybe classroom, has three grades merged. But uh, yeah. Zhao: So how many kids were in a grade? Chen: Uh… Zhao: Was there like a few hundred? Chen: No, not that much. We-our village has total population of five hundred to six hundred people. Zhao: Ohhh. Chen: So, we have let's say from grade one, second grade, third grade, fourth grade, and fifth grade, that's elementary school. It's around twenty, thirty kids for each grade. Zhao: Ohhh, okay okay. �5 Chen: Yeah, but in Chinese classroom is big, big! I mean, the room is not big, but the capacity is big. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: They can pack as much as they can. So, we don't have enough teachers. The teachers are all chosen from the local farmer, which had a certain kind of education level. (Zhao: Ahh) They can teach, suppose, one plus one, two plus two. As long as they know this, they can teach this. (Both laugh) Zhao: So, when-speaking of your teachers, because of the Cultural Revolution, (Chen: Mmhmm) your teachers are farmers, right? Was there anything that you remember being taught as a kid specifically? Or anything that stands out to you, by any chance? Chen: Yeah, we-I mean, as a memory, it was sweet, you know, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) really. You enjoy everything free and no pressure. Like, like nowadays, (Zhao: Mmm yeah) you have everywhere in the world, you have financial pressure or situation, everything. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) Those years, everything, life is simple. You know? You go to school and the pencil can last a couple of months, not like now. Nowadays, kids may have ten, twenty pencils and you can see pencils everywhere. And so…we don't have money. But…then…the life we have is very, I can say, we live in a very affluent abundancy. Zhao: Mmm, okay. Chen: You know? Because you have no need for anything luxury or anything more than…more than what you…(Zhao: Right) what are your basic needs. You know? Zhao: So, when you were living there, were you aware of what life was like in Beijing? Chen: Uh-yeah! (Zhao: So, did you-) That's the, that’s the kind of dream. You know, Beijing beverybody knows big city. (Zhao: Mmm) In big cities, then you have better life. And, uh, so government pays more. And poor farmers, you know, you don't have that much kind of uh…life standard. Zhao: Right, right. Chen: You know, life standard is different compared the urban area (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and the rural area. Zhao: Okay, I see. Chen: Complete difference. Zhao: Yeah. So, uhm, now going to your family, do you remember hearing stories from your parents or grandparents describing their lives? �6 Chen: Uh, yeah, they told about something about their back- their kids, their life, which is in the Qing Dynasty. (Both laugh) Zhao: Yeah. Chen: So- and my father, in fact, talk about uh, his experience in, in fighting Japanese, we call it the anti-Japanese War. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: It’s a eight-year war when China was involved fighting the Second World War. It’s before the exact Second World War, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) you know, in the late 1930s. Yeah, what happened to him. And my mom, simple, also ah…from a farm-farmer's family, (Zhao: Mmhmm) and then married early at the age of uh, 16, 17 years old, got married. Zhao: Oh. Goodness. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Did your father have any stories from the wars that you remember? Chen: Yeah, my father always told me, you know…Ah, he has to leave because the Japanese, they have machine gun. Zhao: Oh. (Chuckles) Chen: (Chuckles a bit) And my father has, their unit, only have bricks! They had to throw bricks to the Japanese soldier, and then run. So, there's no way to survive there. So, then my father, my mother always complained, “you see, your dad quit again and again.” And I have two other uncles, they fought to the end, and then they became high…government officials. (Zhao: Mmhmm) But then my father would say, “oh, if I stayed there, I might have been killed!” (Zhao laughs) you know? (both laugh) Zhao: Yeah. Chen: “Fortunately, I quit. So that's why I survived.” Yeah. Zhao: Right. In the end, your uncles got lucky, really. ‘Cuz what were the odds. Chen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, they became uh, at the state governor level, yeah (Zhao: Mm-hmm) where all the top uh…government officials, the local government. Zhao: Yeah. When you were younger, did you feel any, like, bitterness or resentment toward your father for leaving? Since you…(mumbles) �7 Chen: No (Zhao: Okay) no, because you don't have any expectation, you don’t have much expectation. You don't know what the outside world is. Zhao: Mmm. Chen: So, you have food, you're happy. And sometimes food is simple. You may complain about it to the mom, but everybody else is the same, you know? We have neighboring kids, everybody, we just play. Yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And did you grow up with any siblings? Chen: Mm-hmm. I have three older brothers, elder brothers. But my eldest brother left the family to work in a mine, coal mine, at the age of thirteen. Zhao: Wow Chen: And then my second brother left the home, joined the army from uh, middle school. So that's early, (Zhao: Wow) very early. And then he came, he been back five years later, he served in the service for five years. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: And then he became a university student. And my third brother, ten years older than me, worked as a farmer. You know. Zhao: Oh, okay. Chen: And uh, that's my family. But basically, I stayed, my sib-the only sibling I stayed with is my third elder brother. So, so as a farmer, because the other two brothers already left the family a long time ago. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. So then, when you were growing up, it was really like your mother, father, uh, third brother. Chen: Yeah, third brother me. Zhao: And then you. Chen: Yeah, me. Zhao: Okay. �8 Chen: And my third brother is ten years age, so basically he went to work every day as a farmer, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) do farming job. And me, is like single kid. So, playing with the neighboring kids. Zhao: Oh, okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Do you have any recollections or memories of playing with the neighbors? Chen: Yeah, yeah. I can say I have a very happy childhood. Yeah, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) yeah. We play, yeah. Enjoy the life, yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: We uh, you know, catch birds. (Zhao suppresses laugh, Chen chuckles) Yeah. And then, catch fishes, fish. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah, okay. So, moving on, as you were growing up, uh, I believe you went to university after finishing your primary education, correct? Chen: Yeah. Yeah, I finished the high school. At the time when I was in high school, China already started…opening to the outside world. So, we see, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) in fact, I'm at the second year or third year of high schooler who had, had the chance to get into the nationwide college entrance examination. Before that, we don't have college entrance examination, (Zhao: oh wow, yeah) even though there were Chinese, there were colleges and universities, but no test needed. Basically, the local government officials…they referred to some kids, then they can get to the college (Zhao: Mm-hmm) without a test. Yeah, that's how my second brother got into the Hebei University, which is a state university. It's like Maryland State University. Zhao: Okay. So then when you were applying for university, you had to take the college entrance exams? Chen: Yeah, yeah. It's a fortunateZhao: -Is it the gao kao as well?1 Chen: Yeah, we call it the college entrance examination, yeah. Zhao: Okay. 1 Interviewer’s note: the gao kao is China’s national undergraduate admission examination. �9 Chen: So, it's, it’s ah, it’s fortunate I had the chance to get into the test. And- unfot- it’s unfortunate thing(since?) I had to work hard to pass the test. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah, how difficult was it? Chen: Yeah, difficult uh, it’s the enrollment rate. The-I mean, the percentage of college, uh entrance is only three percent by the year. Zhao: Wow. Chen: By the year I graduated from high school. Yeah. Zhao: Oh, wow. Chen: So, it's rare, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) three percent nationwide. So, it’sZhao: And what's the university? Chen: Yeah. I got into a teacher's college, which means after graduate, I'll be a teacher. I’ll be a teacher. So I stay out there for two years and after graduate, I became a teacher. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah, this is my first uh, college education. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: And so, when you were, to my knowledge, when um, Chinese students take the gaokao, (Chen: Mm-hmm) based on their scores, that determines what they end up studying, right? Chen: Yeah. Score is the only standard. That's it. They don't look at anything else. Even now, still the same. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: So, were you always interested in being a teacher? Chen: Ahh, no. Not that. Because the social, uh…socially the teacher has the least pay. And at the bottom of the society so those years, 1980s, (Zhao: Ah, yeah) that's why, yeah, I made up my mind trying to get out to quit the job, like my father quit the army, (both laugh) to get out to the job. �10 Zhao: Yeah. Chen: And then, but-fortunately I got another chance to get into the Beijing University of Foreign Studies. (Zhao: Mmm) So that's my second college, ah, second college in-in my life. Yeah. And from there, I got my bachelor degree, get my, uh, bachelor degree of English Literature. Zhao: Okay. And mmm, around what year did you get your bachelor's degree in literature? Chen: That was in ni-1989. (Zhao chuckles) Where, that's the same year where the Tiananmen Square event occurred. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Or we call it here, Tiananmen Massacre. Yeah. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so are you saying that you were an undergraduate student getting your bachelor's in 1989? Chen: Mm-hmm. Zhao: Okay. Uhm, what was it like going to university with that going on? Since you were there at, I believe, some of the protests, right? Chen: Yeah, yeah. I was one of them. Yeah. All college kids, no exceptions for everyone. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. But how has the event impacted your life? Chen: Very deep. Now, first off, we see what is real, what did people pursue, you know? Democracy, freedom, and people…sacrificed their lives for that. And…but then, the government, they crushed it. SoZhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Uh, It's a question of did their deaths worth it for young kids, young people? And the other thing is, ever since then, China is back to, back to normal, back to the previous communism again. Ah-you know, tyranny, still the same kind of uh, communist (Zhao: Right) government. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: So, nothing changed, even worse, you know? (Zhao addresses dog and mumbles Hi Milky) �11 Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah, I see. And you mentioned that, so when studying English literature, what was your curriculum? Are there- like what did you read? What were they teaching you in university? Chen: Yeah. Ah, we uh- basically, language. The language has wide range of subjects. First of all, language, l-listening, reading, reading comprehension, you know, writing. And then literature, you had to read lots of books, uh, British, English books, and then from America, all the English-speaking countries, and then history, and ah society, or we call it social studies. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. And then also kind of translation things. Yeah. Zhao: Okay. And so, since you got into the foreign studies school, um, how many languages did they have you learn? What is the school preparing you for? Chen: Yeah, we, as uh, as uh foreign language is our major, you have to get another language, a second foreign language, as ah, kind of ah, to be qualified to graduate. So, my second foreign language is French. The FrenchZhao: What's the first one? Chen: The first is English. (Zhao chuckles) Chen: English is the major, yeah. Zhao: Okay. And I'm guessing that you take classes in French as well? Chen: Yeah. Okay. Zhao: Okay. Now, the people in your program, and you included, what did you end up doing after you got your bachelor's degree? Chen: Then ah, I became ah- back to my original school again, because of the government rule. So, after work two more years as a high school teacher again, so I tried to get into the ah, graduate school (Zhao: mkay) to further my studies. So, I realized that's the only way to change my life completely (Zhao: Mmm, so how-) instead of being a high school teacher or, or in, in this job. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. �12 Zhao: Yeah, so can you tell me about how you got to graduate school and where you went from there? Chen: Again, the national test. So, we have a nationwide of six percent of uh, enrollment uhh for the- for that year, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) but I got to the six percent. So, I got, fortunately, into the uh, graduate school, which is two years of study, and my major was comparative studies between East and West and translation. Zhao: Okay, and what university were you in? Chen: It's called, it’s the Beijing University of International Relations. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And um, do you have anything that that is memorable, like sticks out to you about your time in graduate school? Or any like fond memories that you look back on? Chen: Yeah, yeah. We have six people in one class. The professor is fun… Um, he ah, you can hear his laugh, laughter from long, from further away, yeah… He uh, had his education, college education, here in America. And ah, (Zhao: Ooh) he was those years, when he was my professor, he was almost seventy years old. So, he, uh, (Zhao: Wow), his father, his father-inlaw, his wife's father was the, uh, Secretary of the…Secretary of the Textile Department of the Guomindang government, (Zhao: mmm) so then they can afford sending him to (Zhao: Right) America to study. Oh, yeah. And then heZhao: and he was employed at Beijing? Chen: Yeah, Beijing, yeah. Zhao: Okay. Were there any like views that he might have shared during his classes? Chen: Yeah…He- uh, his ah, his major is in the Chinese culture. You know, we have Daoism, Confucius, you know (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and how what he teaches is the difference of Chinese culture and Western culture, and also the interpretation or translation of all these Chinese, ancient Chinese books, like Daoism, yeah, (Zhao: Yeah) to translate into the English, yeah. Zhao: Okay, so you've had to translate some works as well? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: For practice? Chen: Mm-hmm (makes sound in agreement) �13 Zhao: Okay. Um, what were some differences between your undergraduate and graduate experience? Chen: It's a further, it's a big step forward. I mean, more advanced and more further study into both cultures, the Western cultures and Chinese cultures. So, we really, even we grew up in China, but at the time when I, before I finished high school, we’re basically in the communist China. So, then in my high school, the end of my high school year, China started open to the outside world. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: So. What we, the education we had as kids, is basically communism, Marxism, Lenin, the previous Soviet Union style, this kind of thing. So we don't really know anything about Chinese, ancient culture, which is a precious thing. The Chinese culture, we don't know, because Mao, as the president of the first new, first president of new China. So basically he hates all the ancient Chinese culture, (Zhao: yeah) so we don't have any contact or any channel to get into the real Chinese culture at all until (Zhao: Ohhh) I get into this graduate program. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Then I know, oh, we have our own philosophy, Chinese culture, Chinese philosophy compared to the Western one, yeah. It's the same age, two thousand years ago, Confucius and Daoism and Dao. Zhao: Yeah. Do you think you can give an example of some of the differences between Chinese culture and Western culture, or even U.S. culture? Chen: Erh, mmm… Zhao: Or what were some of the main, uh, let's say like, world views that were used…? Chen: To be more specific, be more specific. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. The U.S. history is very short. You cannot search U.S. culture or history by comparing with China, basically two-five thousand years of uh, history. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, only U.S. only has modern, contemporary history, all kinds of philosophy, you know? Zhao: Right. Chen: China has…has uh, you know, uh, deep, uh, and uh…rich history and culture (Zhao: Yeah) from two thousand years ago, yeah. Zhao: Yeah, so just to clarify, when you were growing up, they didn't teach like Confucius values, Confucian values? �14 Chen: Uh, Before high school? Or… Zhao: Yeah, before high school? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: They didn’t? Chen: We didn't, we didn’t. Zhao: Okay. And then after hag-high school, you started learning? Chen: Yeah, after that age, China started open to China. So, (Zhao: Okay) people can see right now the kids in school, in Chinese high school, even still with communist rule, they have part of classes eh, introducing Chinese culture and Chinese history, you know? Zhao: Mmm, okay. Yeah. So, after you finished your graduate degree, where did you go and what did you end up doing? Chen: Then I went to work for a private company in a island, it's called Hainan Island, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and, when I was in my graduate school, the Hainan was just started to be hot land for investment and foreign uh, investment and these joint ventures. So, I decided, instead of working for the government anymore, to explore my own career in this private land (Zhao: Mm-hmm) with more freedom, so that's where I intended to go. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: And I did go there (Zhao: Mm-hmm) for a couple more years, yeah. Zhao: And it sounds like your educational background led you to kind of be more interested in the private enterprise? Chen: Yep, the uh… the job basically, the career has nothing to do with what we learn, you know. Zhao: Right Chen: Yeah- based on my major, I should work for the government and I should work in the field where I can use my uh, my education, that's the English as tool, as language tool, but I didn't like that to be as a government employee working for government anymore, so that's why. But then, I work, when you work for the comp- for the corporate company, which is completely different because you don't have anything you are good at, to work at a private company, so you have to start from the very beginning. Zhao: Ohhh, okay. Chen: Yeah. �15 Zhao: And your, your classmates when you were in graduate school, they ended up working for the government? Chen: Yeah, most of them, 99% uh, go to the government Zhao: What type of jobs? Chen: Yeah so we, (Zhao: In the government…) you can go to the foreign ministry or uh, any joint ventures a government uh…government organizations which are related to foreign of anything with foreign affairs, yeah. (Zhao: Okay so-) And they got pretty good job, pretty good pay. Zhao: Yeah Chen: Yeah. Zhao: So, it sounds like diplomacy or even like embassy workChen: Yeah, diplo, that’s why I came to here, some my friends, some of my classmates were in Chinese Embassy. Zhao: Ohh, okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. So, uhm, now when you were in Hainan, can you tell me a bit more about this company you worked for and what that was like? Chen: Ah, first of all, I work in the real-realtor real estate company; we developed land and build-buildings and uh, that was short experience. I work as a secretary, basically, to write some articles for the general manager (Zhao: Mm-hmm) or as a generous (general) manager secretary, write something and uh… to dispose the local government officials’ bad behavior, this kind of thing (Zhao giggles) so thatZhao: So, it’s like a journalist, almost. Chen: Yeah, so that this kind of (Zhao: Okay) this general manager can convince his case against government, it's like this. And then, eh, I tried…I changed a different job, which is working in the security, uh, stock market company, to work in their security department. It’s not a security guard but working in trying to get the company into…from private company to become a public company. Zhao: Ohhh, okay. Chen: Yeah, it's kind of a, public, uh…what's that, public relations department. Zhao: Mmm, okay, (Chen: Mm-hmm) I see. And yeah, so how long were you living in Hainan for? �16 Chen: Two years. Zhao: Two years? Chen: Yeah, two years and after that, I got the chance to get into ah, to move to Guangzhou, Guangdong province, which is where attract- this promise attracted more uhm, foreign investment than anywhere in China, so (Zhao: Yeah) it was so hardZhao: Because of Deng Xiaoping’s policy? Chen: Yeah, Deng Xiaoping’s policy, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: It was so hard, so then I was-I got the job from-uh referred through friends, get a job from a…American company. They make jewelry in a countryside factory, yeah. Zhao: Okay and uh, the referral was from friends that you had through graduate school? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Then I got uh, I became a manager of that factory. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Can you tell me a bit more about what it was like working there? Chen: Yeah, we were- we make uh jewelries and imitation jewelries, kind of a decoration things, and the company is located in Long Island ah, New York. Zhao: Oh! okay. Chen: And yeah, they sell to uh…many many customers, thousands of customer here- let’s say Claire's, Icing, (Zhao: Ohhh) all these kids' jewelries, each has over three thousand stores (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and uh, other home decor… thin- home decor companies. So, it's two, two kids, two young guy, they're uh…promising, you know, very hard-working two guys. They set up this factory in the Guangdong area. Zhao: Yeah. And are they (Chen: yeah) uh, Chinese? Chen: Ah, no they're American. Zhao: Okay. �17 Chen: Yeah, they're American yeah and then, (Zhao: Mmm) I basically, my job is to manage the factory for them and get your orders and then, now I use my major translate their orders, in English to Chinese and give it to all different department in the factory to produce, the process the factory, process the order. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: How long did you live in Guangdong for? Chen: I lived, I worked there for five years. Zhao: Okay, wow. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. (Chen: Mm-hmm) And from there, did you have any other jobs? BeforeChen: Ah no, that's it. (Zhao: Okay) That's my most precious experience in life because my major is in language, which is the language as a tool. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) As you manage factory, which is like you own the factory, you have to deal with different departments, different things (Zhao: Right) all sorts of things. The local people basically, they are tough and all workers are young. Young, eighteen year- eighteen to twenty-five years old and you know, we have uh, they have a strike. They went on (Zhao: Ohhh) strike two times a year. (Zhao: Okay) Every year, they would, uh, they have two times strike a year, they don't- they quit job, so then what we do: give them the raise again so everybody come back to factory. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, you have to deal with this kind of situation. Zhao: I see. Chen: Yeah. Humanely, this is tough and then uh the other thing is basically these people, workers, they don't have any trained experience (Zhao: Mmm) so you have to train them, uh, discipline them, and teach them how to do- to do a good job to raise to improve the efficiency of their production. Yeah. Zhao: Mmm okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Um, I had a question on this but I forgot… Yeah so it sounds like this is a very big factory, (Chen: Yeah, I-) how many people were there…? Chen: Yeah, at the time I entered the factory, there were only eighty workers. By the time I left the factory, we have thousand workers, which is (Zhao: Oh wow) several big, big �18 buildings,(Zhao: Mm-hmm) yeah. We ship jewelry to America by forty-foot containers (Zhao chuckles) imagine how many jewelry is a bracelet, necklace can forty of the container holds, (Zhao: Yeah) million pieces. Yeah, we have at least one of the containers every month to America. One made- one container’s jewelry. Zhao: Oh, my goodness. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Then your, your two bosses must have made a lot of money? Chen: Yeah, they made money. I made, I work hard for them, so give me a bonus, they gave me a good- good pay in China, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) so I make in U.S. dollars two thousand dollars a month back in the early nineteen-ninties, which is (Zhao: Wowww) which is uh, incredible, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) yeah. Zhao: Yeah, wow. Um, what led you to leave the company? Since after that you immigrated to the U.S., correct? Chen: Yeah. My- I have brother in Virginia, (Zhao: Mkay) so he would like me to help to come here, to help him. He owns newspaper, so then I thought about it, but I thought okay, let me start my own career. And uh, still, I didn't quit until, uh, basically, have some problem with my boss in America here, yeah. Zhao: Mmm, okay. Chen: They promised me year, and after year give me a raise, give me a raise, give me a raise for, but they didn't keep their promise until the outside. Okay, (Zhao: Ohhhh) I have to leave. So then, I had to leave. By the time I leave, he said, “Look we'll give you a big raise, how about a big raise plus bonus?” I said too late (Zhao: laughs) yeah. Then, (Zhao: yeah) I came here with a visitor visa. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah my brother as a sponsor here in Virginia, (Zhao: Right) in the States, yeah help me. Zhao: Yeah. What, what would you consider the most difficult parts about leaving China? Chen: Uh, the biggest difference is here, in America, basically, people live- everybody has their independent life, you know. The house are detached, separate from each other, (Zhao: Mmhmm) except some apartments, but people, they have more uh, private life. In China, we don't really have this kind of ah, privacy. So, uh if you…the half of your life [dog barks] you spend you live in the kind of community [dog barks] everybody is so close to each other [dog barks] and then [dog barks] friends, you [dog barks] know, relatives, family, bonding together. And then to leave this kind of environment, (Zhao: Mmm) and then you came to a different, foreign land, where you don't know anybody else, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) unless in the street with me. Someone you say hi, and that's it. So this is completely different and this is uh, for a stranger to �19 be here, is sad because (Zhao: Ohh) you lost the friendship, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) the family, and you mean…th-the entire environment you had is gone (Zhao: Mmm) and you had to be, to learn to be used to this completely- complete different kind of life. Yeah. Zhao: Oh, okay. And um, what year did you immigrate here? Chen: Ah, 1998. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah, May nine-May thirtieth, 1998. That’s the year I landed here in America, formally. Zhao: So, you were thirty-five? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Thirty-five, wow. Chen: Mm-hmm. Zhao: That means you already spent basically most- if not yeah- a good portion of your life in China? Chen: It’s thirty-five. Zhao: Yeah, wow. (Laughs) Chen: Yeah. (Chuckles) Zhao: Okay. Chen: Those are the precious thirty-five years it is, young ma- young man, you know? Zhao: Yeah, what did you expect the U.S. to be like, since you even studied a lot about… Chen: Yeah, we, it's uh…We didn't, I didn't expect it that much, so basically I don't feel big difference because we know something, what's American life is like. Yeah. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So, uh, still, you feel detached, you feel, uh, not so, uh, easily, uh, fit into the life here. Yeah. Zhao: How did you handle that? Yeah, it's just, uh, uh…you know, now I'm Christian. I know the way, I can pray. Those years, yeah, I- I wasn't Christian yet, not bapt-chris- I don't know anything about Christi- Christianity. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So, as a Chinese, yeah, none of us. So then you have to try to…with your own self-discipline or self-control, (Zhao: Mmm) you know? Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Try to overcome these kind of uh, difficulties, yeah. �20 Zhao: Yeah. Yeah. So, where were you living? Chen: Yeah, in, uh, Fairfax, Virginia. Zhao: Yeah. Were you living with your brother? Chen: The first ah, two years I live my brother. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: And youChen: And after I, uh, uh. I started dating a girl, my wife, so then I moved out, and rent an apartment in Fairfax. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And at that time, were you working um, for your brother's newspaper? Chen: A little bit. A little bit because (Zhao: Okay) I'm not, you know, uh, had any knowledge of journalism at all. Zhao: Mmm, right. Chen: So, I help him a little bit deliver newspaper things, helped him uh, go with him to all different parties, trying to learn something. But I don't feel like I can get into his world, (Zhao: mmm) which is a world with all these kind of politicians, a lot, you know. Zhao: Right. Chen: Because I was in the business circle in China, business people have different behavior or different custom compared with politicians. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) It's different way. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: And can you tell me a bit more about his newspaper? Chen: Yeah. His newspaper is called Asian Fortune and serving all the Asian communities. Yeah. The majority of his readers are these uh, Korean immigrants, people from Vietnam, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and some Chinese. And Northern Virginia has a big population of Asian minorities, Asian people. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So Asian minority is big, yeah big people. Big �21 population. (Zhao: Oh okay, yeah) So then he has a lot of these readers from these countries. Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: So, who support his business. And uh, the newspaper basically has the- got the income only from the commercial, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Mm. Zhao: And the politicians that he was meeting with, they were everyone, right? Chen: Everywhere. Zhao: D.C.? Chen: Yeah, D.C. area, all the political circle, c-congressmen, senators, you know. Zhao: Mmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: AllZhao: Did you feel special, or like V.I.P., when you were at (chuckles) the U.S.? Chen: No, I don't feel that at all. (Zhao: Okay) I feel very embarrassed because, (Zhao: Ohh) you know, when you have business, when you're in business, you don't have kind of ah, so much behavior problem that much. People say hi, you know, eat, drink, that's it. And then, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) in this, with the politicians, oh, you have to talk, chat, talk, uh…with them. Zhao: There's a way to talk. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: And then, and then ah table, dining manners, a lot of things, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: I'm really cannot fit into this kind of circle. That's why I decided, oh, this is, this is different world. It's not, I can never get-get into the world. Zhao: Okay. �22 Chen: And then I try and persuade my brother into letting me go, to picking up my old business, which is trading. Ah, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Yeah so, can you tell me a bit more about this business you started? Chen: When I was in China, even was working for the American boss, I, I go to some trade shows in China, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) searching for some suppliers, different things. (Zhao: Mmm, okay) And from there I, I became acquainted with many of the suppliers. And then we started, not just making our own factory, but also buy from the suppliers and send, ship them to America. So, my ah, American company, they are also im-importing things from them. So, I work as (Zhao: Mmm) a- as their agent in some way. So then when I came here, ah, when I decided to pick up this business again, I called all these big supplier, old suppliers' friends, see if they can support me. And some of them said, yes, sure, definitely. You can, if we can work over there, we will sell you, to you, and you sell in America yourself. I said, okay. That's how I started with the business. Zhao: Ohh, okay. Chen: And, uh. Uh. Zhao: What year was that? Chen: Yeah, that was in nineteen, uh, nine- in 2000. Zhao: 2000? Chen: 2000, two years after I came to the country. So, I started with the candle line, because (Zhao: Mm-hmm) I had a contact with a candle manufacturer in Shanghai. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So then he was my only supplier of merchandise, uh, when I started the business. (Zhao: Mmhmm) So I tried the candle. Yeah. Zhao: Okay. And how do things go from the candle? Chen: Yes. Zhao: So, at this point, you have a business, you have a girlfriend, and you're living on your own. Chen: Not exactly, it's tough. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Life is tough. You know, you don't have customers at the very beginning. You have to do trade shows, after trade shows. (Zhao: Mm) And me alone, single, fine. (Zhao: Mmm)Yeah. And then a couple years later, when I come, uh, with, uh, get married, my wife. Then fa-family. It's tough to travel. And then, but to support the family at the same time so the business was tiny. (Zhao: Okay) And because it takes years to build up the customer base. �23 Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: So how much, can you estimate, like how much were you grossing every year? Chen: Yeah. We, uh, let's say first year, maybe one hundred thousand dollars. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: And then second year, three hundred, two hundred. The first few years I came into, let's say 300k a year, which is basicallyZhao: -That doesn't cover your expenses. Chen: Yeah, 300k, you can live from hand to mouth. Yeah, many months, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) phone company connected the phone could disconnect the phone because you cannot afford paying the phone bill. Zhao: Mmm. Chen: Yeah. They can let you pass one month, but second month, if you don't pay then they will disconnect (Zhao: right) your phone. Yeah, but that's the life. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah, it's tough. You have to work hard, yeah. Hard work hard to do trade shows after trade shows, try to build up to get some more customers and selling more merchandise. (Zhao: Yeah) Yeah, it's ah…it's so tough, but then we made it, you know? Three years of hard work, I have family, I have my my first daughter, Lori, and then my son, second, my second kid, son Daniel (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and then business getting better and better. And then, I became a Christian. Uh, ten years after I came to the country, yeah. Zhao: Okay, yeah. Chen: Mm. Zhao: Um, wow, that's, that’s a lot. Um, when you went to these trade shows, they were- where were they? And ehChen: Ah- those years, I mean 1990s, or the first uh, beginning of the twenty, of the 2000, ah, there are trade shows everywhere. The business (Zhao: Mm-hmm) was completely different because there were no Amazon, there are no online business. The Walmart, even Walmart, was not that many, only (Zhao: mmm) probably… Walmart just started from three hundred Walmart in the nationwide, and to one-thousand. So then, by the end of the century, ah, Walmart boomed business, (Zhao: yeah) so they are everywhere, and they killed many, many mama and papa gift shops. (Zhao: Mm) So I can say, forty percent, fifty percent of the gift shops closed (Zhao: Mm- �24 hmm) because the competition with Walmart. Walmart came into being and then, online business came to being, Ama- the uh, eBay. And uhZhao: Right. This the mid-2000s? Chen: Yeah, (Zhao: okay) 2000, beginning of 2000. And then the toy business, the game, became to be booming also, like Toys “R” Us closed, you know, because online competition. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So then, ah, they killed another twenty, thirty percent of the business. Then, finally, Amazon came into being. Amazon killed another twenty-thirty percent of it. So, uh, from nowadays, which is 2024-2023, compared with twenty-thirty years ago, eighty percent of the business were gone. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So survived only twenty percent. This twenty percent business survived. I mean the small business in retail business survived. Zhao: Mm. So, it sounds like, would you say that the industry you're in is like a dying industry if everyone's leaving? Chen: What do you mean? Zhao: Like, you're saying that after, you know, the-these large monopolies come in, twentythirty percent of all these mom and pop small businesses are closing. So, do you think that your industry, the wholesale industry, specifically with like um, import-export…is? Chen: Yeah, the wholesale business also shrink. They will follow the suite, the same. It happened the same with the wholesalers. But I'm a wholesaler. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So what happened, the same. Eighty percent of wholesalers gone. (Zhao: Ohhh) Deleted. Then only twenty percent people left. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So I, fortunately, ah, praise the Lord, became a survivor. Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And to my knowledge, a lot of these companies now they buy directly from the manufacturer. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: They don't go through a middleman like you. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. I see. Yeah. Um. Yeah so, you are an American citizen, yes? Chen: Yes! (Zhao: Yeah) Yes I am. Yeah, been American citizen back in, ah, 2010. Zhao: Okay Chen: 2010, yeah. �25 Zhao: Yeah (Chen: Mm-hmm) and…how do you feel about the U.S.? Or how do you feel about being, let's say, like an American? Chen: Mmm I feel good! I feel great, yeah. The American is basically, this is a country of freedom, a country of ah, democracy. I mean, it's not just politically. I mean in (Zhao: Right) real life, we feel that. Me, as an educated person uh, from the communist country, (Zhao: mm, right) I feel this, uh, the big difference of living in this country compared with what life herethere in China. You know, in any other world, in other similar country, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Can you give an example of that? Chen: Yes. Let's say the uh, to take freedom for example. So, when we here, we don't really cherish the word freedom that much. Let’s say (Zhao: Mm-hmm) some of my workers they, they were born here, and you know none of them showed any appreciation of this at all. But, I talked to them is, when I talked to them I see, you see, you don't feel this. But, if you are in a different kind of uh, country, a different system, you don't have this kind of freedom at all. Zhao: What freedom are you talking… Chen: And you don't have your own right. So basically, your right is given…by the government, and you can do some thing and some thing you cannot do. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, as an individual or citizen in a society, part of your rights is removed. So that's the sad thing (Zhao: Yeah), you know. That's the big difference. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Right? Zhao: Right. So that's like freedom of speech? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: And, okay. Yeah. And since you mentioned your family, um, who are the members of your family and you can- can you tell me more about your family, what does it look like? Chen: Yeah, my mom and dad, they passed away. Uh, my father passed away when I was in high school, and my mom passed away when I came to- uh, like ten years after they came to this country. And so, we had a fam-happy family. Very traditional, mom, dad, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) you know. Mom cooked the food, three meals a day, and father left for work, joined the uh, communist community, work every day as a farmer. (Zhao: Mm) And then at the end of the year, we got our lot by the community, let's say ten dollars, twenty dollars a year as the pay, as �26 the income, we can buy something, and the uh, the food is basically free, because you got your shares. (Zhao: Yeah) Corn, rice, (Zhao: Ohh, yeah) everything is free, you got your shares, and that's enough for you to ah, support the entire family. (Zhao: okay) You don't have anything, you know, uh, beyond all these basic needs, luxuries, no. Yeah. Zhao: Mm- that sounds like the complete opposite of what it looked like for you to build a family in the U.S.? Chen: Uh-yeah. So that's a completely (Zhao: Yeah) different society. That was old, you know, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) even now China, after they open to the world, our world, since years, years in development, now it's the same, almost the same as America now. So, the life is the same. Yeah. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) People live under all sorts of pressures, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Yeah, what about, uh, you mentioned that you have a wife and kids. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Can you tell me more about your family here? Chen: Yeah, here, we have another happy family. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: My-me, I have four kids, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) two daughters, two sons. And ah…there are problems here, because this is a country of freedom, so, uh, the way to teach them is different from China, but (Zhao: Mm-hmm) we have a traditional idea of how to teach the kids. We would like to, uh, Chinese way, you know. Zhao: Yeah. So, what wereChen: It's very demanding. You had to follow me, you had to follow parents' instruction, otherwise we beat you, okay, or whatever, but that doesn't work. We found (Zhao: uh-huh) this is, uh, it doesn't work that way, (chuckles) yeah. Zhao: Yeah. So then if, what would you- which Chinese traditions and customs have you brought to the U.S. with you? So maybe not the authoritarian government, like I will force you to do what, you know, I say, but what about, like, maybe some Confucian values, like respect for the elderly? Chen: Yeah, yeah. ThisZhao: What else is there? Chen: Yeah, the Confucian value, I found later, is basically the-almost in nature, same as Christianity, you know. Love, love within families, and love within the community. So that's what Confucius promoted 2,000 years ago in China, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) but during the communism, we got rid of love. Got rid of this word completely. We don't have this world in our �27 textbook, or in our life. People only live in family, inside one family, you know. You have affection, uh, feeling about each other, but that word is never spoken out, (Zhao: Mmm) under communist society. But now, eh, in China, it's the same. Because everything is open to the outside world. So that's the difference, the big difference. And uh, that's the culture, the old culture we learned from China, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and I think we should keep anywhere we go. Zhao: Mmm, okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Um, are there any, like, Chinese traditions that you pass on? Like any holidays that you continue to celebrate here? Chen: Yeah, we still have Chinese New Year, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and we also have Moon festival, basically, uh, now from a year ago, probably- the Chinese New Year became a public holiday, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) so then we, especially this year, we enjoyed whole family unification, all (Zhao: Yeah) everybody here, under this dining table, celebrate Chinese New Year. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) It's just a simple meal, a chat, but this is the, this is the opportunity for family…to show their love each other, (Zhao: Yeah) to show their care about each other, you know? Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. I would say that it's probably one of, if not the most, like, important gathering (Chen: Yeah) or event in China. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Like…(Zhao unintelligibly trails off) yeah. Chen: Like Christmas or Thanksgiving in America. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: I see. Yeah. Um, what- this is a bit of a more personal question, but what are your dreams and visions for the future? Chen: Mmm. My dream? It’s simple. Back to, as a farmer again. (both laugh) Chen: That's my, (Zhao: Yeah) my kids call me Farmer Chen. Yeah. I brought up as a farmer. Yeah. But then my si- as I told my kids, my, at high school, the year before I graduate from high school, my high school principal had a meeting, made a, made a most influential speech in front of all of us. “So you, would you become father, become a farmer like your father, your �28 grandfather, your father’s father, or you want to change? You want to change and become someone, someone different, living in big cities, have-have a different dream, and have different, different type of life? Yeah. And then, I made that dream came true. Uh, all the way through hard work, and I come to…this country. But at, at this age, I don't really have any ambitious, ambition anymore. What I'm hoping is, my kids, hopefully they can reach their dream through the same kind of hard work I had. Zhao: I see. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Yeah, um. Chen: But, it doesn't seem this will work. (Both laugh) Chen: (Laughs) Because they… (More laughter from both) Zhao: Ah-do you think... Chen: Yeah, they have more freedom to (Zhao: Yeah), they have freedom to follow their own way, follow their (Zhao: yeah) own dream. Yeah. Zhao: Right. Because the cos-sacrifice that you made has (Zhao giggles) resulted in (Chen: Mm-hmm, uh yeah) not needing so...to um, work in the same way that you did, when you were younger. Yeah… Um. NowChen: It's basically the personality. It's everybody, everybody created specially. You have your own...by God, your own specialty, special character. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So, you pursue your own dream, one way or the other, you know. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Do you think that Christianity has also influenced a lot of how your like, values have changed? Chen: Yeah! Zhao: Okay. Chen: My later ages, I mean, ever since I became Christian, really changed my life, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. �29 Chen: Yeah. Changed the way I work, change the way I think, you Know, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) yeah. It is…it is. Zhao: Yeah. Are you an active member of the Christian community? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. So what does that look like, do you attend a, umChen: A church, yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Church every Sunday, but not that active anymore. At the- like, like the beginning, yeah. Zhao: Uh-huh. (Chen nods and makes sound in agreement) Zhao: Okay. Um, and since now that the interview is closing up a bit, um, is there anything else you would like to tell me before the interview finishes? Chen: Yeah, uh, okay. First of all, thank you for this chance (Zhao: Of course, ah, thank you for your time) for me to express myself, yeah. I would like, you know, my kids, yeah. Uh, when I talked to my son in Hawaii, yeah, I told him, uh, the person who gave me most important uhinstruction in my life is- you, as a high school kids, you should set up your own objective. Once you have the objective, you work towards this objective. Sooner or later, you will reach that target. (Zhao: Mm) So, this is how I told my son, and not to my daughter yet probably, there are some other kids. So, uh, I think life is tough, but you have to work hard, you know? Uh, it all depends on what you want to be, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Well then, what would you say for someone that doesn't know what they want to be yet? Chen: Yeah, th-the same. If you don't want to be, want to be- you have no, uh, you don't set up your target, objective yet, then you have to think about it. Will you need one? Yeah. You have to, you have to have something to hold on, to hold on to, so you can have…encouragement, or you absorb encouragement from it to encourage yourself to work toward it. Zhao: Hmm, okay. Chen: Yeah. �30 Zhao: I see. Zhao: And also, always follow Christian values. Yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Mmm. Zhao: Yeah, and…mm, um…I think that's about it. Uh, thank you for your time and participation. Yeah. Chen: Thank you. Zhao: Yeah, this has been very rewarding. Thank you. Chen: Yeah! Thank you, my daughter. (Both laugh) Zhao: Yeah, thank you. Okay. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lori Zhao Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jiwu (George) Chen Location The location of the interview Ellicott City, Howard County, MD, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jiwu (George) Chen Description An account of the resource This interview between Lori Zhao and George (nickname) Chen, a Chinese immigrant and explores George’s experience as a Chinese immigrant in the U.S. George was born in Tianjin, China, and grew up under socialist China. Throughout his childhood, China’s economic and political policies began to change, which impacted George’s career opportunities and trajectories. George’s interview discusses differences between his experiences in the U.S. and China, his educational background during China’s transitional period, and the different career trajectories he has followed over the course of his life. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lori Zhao Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 24, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio business China education Freedom government journalism Socialism student