1 10 13 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/27477e5ba06c01a7008a39dee6c14337.png?Expires=1781740800&Signature=eUwJitwYKvTyEPAWxISMd3GGPI0pN9WbWh38rXb83tmzh3ni--EeEFrbCijKFtcIrklxx7d555p6JbZxnKn-8irGbxkDVpYQvuuAvnhHZewWq4Y5DDCSHZdDQ4aC4c6G2iJuL5BQ0gCcG8zKs5ZHjY0%7EZXra9ASu5Fzk4kRsjzOvnZiL-QeVxuq1Y6BRCmAsZr1iauD4ogGy6AXL9AfBtstYUVW9GNSy0kqcKIDpowPetCPlvw1Zw9HOb8tnoYUfDWWSlXKQjmv2tLE-MNIveT32NBgwlI862WtoiHSHvrT9OoKqwIxW6lI0bV0neRsylbpeL8Vk8qdmTC6C4Gv2YA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Abigail I. Carbajal Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cecia A. Turcios Location The location of the interview Lanham, Prince George’s County, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Cecia Turcios Description An account of the resource This interview between Abigail Carbajal and Cecia Turcios explores Turcios’ experiences as an immigrant to the United States of America from El Salvador. Her father had moved to the United States ten years before and was working to get them to move here. Eventually, he was able to obtain green cards for Turcios and her mother and moved them over here to start a better life. Turcios’s interview touches on her struggles with her educational dreams after moving and to find motivation to pursue her dreams in such a big country without knowing English. Until this day Turcios emphasizes the importance of having a person to teach you that education is important and how she continues to do this for her own kids. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Abigail I. Carbajal Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio America earthquake education El Salvador school war https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4f652c64a209589f7eb9a5b38980a63e.png?Expires=1781740800&Signature=jsduj120olaZa-6Gatx2FYeHcnAc8FxJMKCHJapxWOtgieIiWA1cjW9xLxDpDm0piKpNHcKUWjP5wx1i5SemQIIkQVwn83j2fbYvO1qQV7fcO2hJxiyWG2WgnsigCLGRK4QjMFp55wLC779cGfbG8Wbwhqta98q4A6dMrYzYZfzGhavFixaIMuUi3-xnF3D6kOuxIhkVZUGD2kA9mwCQ0nfyP0rKhKnjYgbSnP3ei9RhPop1OXGOrqkBYGKgZmJSt1bZUB5fm%7EyA%7EqAIsGl9PTe3BXpXHlFNwG0-FXZG1SWioo0l2xd6SfYBXqVCmkk607tF80RJvW0lpNogUxloYw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Alexander Chen Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Manoharan Chelladurai Location The location of the interview Frederick, Frederick County, Maryland, USA Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Manoharan Chelladurai Description An account of the resource This interview between Alexander Chen and Manoharan Chelladurai explores Murali's experiences as an immigrant to the United States from Tamil Nadu, India. Chelladurai tells of his experiences growing up in a rural village in India and his educational upbringing. He also gives information of how he immigrated to United States to work at Wall Street in 2003 and later moved to the DMV area in 2013, to have a calmer way of life. Chelladurai’s interview focuses on the importance of education, and how his education allowed him to succeed, strive here in America, and why education should be highly valued in society. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Alexander Chen Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 1, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Computer Science India IT Tamil Nadu technology Wall Street https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ef1d84d6ee8e4267093b3db43b0033ae.png?Expires=1781740800&Signature=KnrhTN3TBOHppKFSGuuActaodCoUQOW%7E3D7iKnX%7EmekfT2E0-oo1tBcp%7E2xFsmrtIvdpJuSo8lZySRkwpjALeKYy8ZmN2t0o-0wptnr-4-VQsgsHMo-1zODAIWp1xLsltpkHUULbJy%7E2ItBP32FxgQgAqELi0l3xgb3l1Q9zRn3pvJF1oGH0XD2DkgZVU4Mfidy7D5t4nH2LWKekzd4M2WI3CJy6hm1TyaFs18kYBAicUi9qOWXtcSupbD6yE5k5mTbGf4YQ6n1y9SHnAbN79T4Kl5UyupZpdApXw7EAuwdbXviWvQGH%7EJxZkIJJzOT05tZ8B8Bo3Q%7EW0S-cvrgmcA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Adegbemisola (Bemi) Onitiri Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jane Doe (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview Upper Marlboro, Prince George’s County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jane Doe (pseudonym) Description An account of the resource This interview between Adegbemisola Onitiri and Jane Doe (pseudonym) details Doe’s experiences as an immigrant. It explores the triumphs and struggles of her time in the United States. Additionally, this interview reveals the nature of Jane Doe’s experiences growing up in a polygamous family in Ogun state, Nigeria, the values that were emphasized in her family, and how those values impact the way she raises her children. ***This interview transcript is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Adegbemisola Onitiri Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 10, 2024 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History IT motherhood Nigeria Polygamy https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/f006ac2d9990bc30f4586c671ba56eb4.png?Expires=1781740800&Signature=vYf6wON%7EqcpvsktVrgRc7cHQE%7EMeyoPontbZH86dsLDTHAdKZeFV2K8XYGn8gJeitxrhfxzUCugR%7E7gryHDnUcaOejbxY--rgHTRCfBrBbAtbptcCsjpj5D74NoME2OhOenXz%7ETCdUlgFV7h8l06Iyn-pd5ZJZ336Yc-0NiiRl-F8GgzHVLRkJK6poZCBEPlNzTLAcPmT05RHs%7EZr97mRrNsspx8ETiH-zYFBS8x1-o0G%7EEzD4M3mG5LwV4V3fN0GxkS3sAc7ZoCy-Ha2PIZP031J3xtEnnGQth7yBLmnUwENCWcgoKY4xUWCefxGAVGyW74TKplF%7ENwUEzzyaIMNw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bala Govindaraju Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Vasanthi Kandsamy Location The location of the interview <span xml:lang="en-us" lang="en-us" class="TextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0">Clarksville</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0">, Montgomery Country, Maryland, United States</span></span><span class="EOP SCXW171178747 BCX0"> </span> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Vasanthi Kandsamy Description An account of the resource This interview between Bala Govindaraju and Vasanthi Kandsamy discusses Vasanthi’s experience growing up in India and migration to the United States. Vasanthi recounts her experience in the Indian educational system, family relationships, and labor migration. She also considers her racial-ethnic identification in India and the US. Vasanthi reflects on the difficulties communicating with family back home and family reunification. Throughout the discussion, Vasanthi shares how much had changed since her migration -- from the city side to increasing educated migrants moving to foreign countries for better opportunities. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR400 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Colleen Woods of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bala Govindaraju Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 7, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. 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Rush Interviewer’s name: Caleb McClatchey Narrator’s name: Argentina McCarthy Narrator’s Country of Origin: Panama Narrator’s Current Residence: Columbia, Howard County, MD, USA Date of Interview: March 1, 2024 Place of Interview: Columbia, Howard County, MD, USA Introduction: This interview between Caleb McClatchey and Argentina McCarthy explores Argentina’s adolescence in Panama and her adult life as an immigrant in the United States. Growing up in the small town of David, she speaks about Panamanian culture and navigating poverty and political turmoil in her teen years. Argentina intertwines her immigration experience with her older sister’s, recounting the sacrifices she and her mother made in Panama to allow her sister to immigrate first. While Argentina did not want to immigrate, she was forced to come study by her mother and arrived to the United States in 1969 at age 18. Argentina discusses her struggles learning English and making ends meet upon initially arriving. She highlights the different roles she has had in her time here: a stay-at-home parent, then a high school Spanish teacher, and now a grandparent. Keywords: Panama, immigrant, teacher, parent, poverty McClatchey: Alright. We're recording, so I'll start out with a littleMcCarthy: Ok. McClatchey: introduction. McCarthy: Mhm. McClatchey: So I'm Caleb McClatchy and today I'll be interviewing Argentina McCarthy. Today is March 1st, 2024. We are in Columbia, Maryland. And we'll be doing a oral history interview today. So with that, let's get started. So my first question, just starting out simple, is when were you born? McCarthy: What year, what? McClatchey: They, they want the birth date, you can just give the year, if that's, if you’re uncomfortableMcCarthy: Oh, no, I'm ok. Yeah, I, like I told you I’m open. I was born in March. This is my birthday month. That’s convenient it was March 1st. Long time ago, 1951. McClatchey: Ok. �2 McCarthy: Yeah. So. McClatchey: Ok. And then, where? McCarthy: I was born in Boquete, a very small town in the mountains in Chiriquí, which is one of the provinces in Panama. McClatchey: Uh, and so what, what can you tell me about where you grew up? McCarthy: I was born in Boquete, however, though I grew up in, in David. David was at that time a, a very small city where we pretty much knew, small community, that knew each other. Good for the adults, not for the teenagers because if you did something that your parents didn't approve of by the time you made it home they would already know, somebody would have informed them. It was nice because it was a sense of community where everybody look out for one another, where seems like everybody was my mother or my father. So there will be taking, you know, reprimanding you and making sure that you were doing the right thing. Along with that community of friends, it was that close community, community of family because we lived close by, my grandmother lived just a few houses down, so it was in a sense very nurturing from that point of view because you never felt totally alone. And, uh, you know, so that'sMcClatchey: How, how would you say that affected you growing up? McCarthy: Um, it was, like I said, it was nurturing and I knew that I could go when I had a problem, I could go to either my grandmother and depending what I kind of advice, if I wanted to, uh, you know, you didn’t want McClatchey: Yeah, sure. McClatchey: (Both chuckle) Yeah. Right. Right. But I could go to a grandmother. Or I could talk with my neighbor or an aunt about whatever and depended, like I said, on how I felt with a member of the family, of the community. And being a teenager or a young person, you sort of tend to manipulate a little bit (McClatchey chuckles) where you go. So it was good in that, you know, that affected me and that, it made, there was a sense of security that you could always go to somebody you were not, never alone, even when you might have felt alone, it wasn't really for too long. It was also, the sense of community was very noticeable at school. So we work in groups helping each other. So if, I wasn't good at math, but my friend was good at math, so he, we will get together and he will explain whatever to us. And, and it was like that, that interest that we had, that we wanted that other person to do well and it was again that community that we grew up with, where you were looking out for one another all the time. McClatchey: You said it was fairly small about. Can you give aMcCarthy: It was, um. McClatchey: -rough number. �3 McCarthy: Well, I'm. I would have to make it up. It might have been, it’s agriculture, It's an agricultural area. So the, the community, where the, where I grew up, the homes were fairly close even though it was a lot of land and very agricultural. And so because of those people that were living far away and you put the numbers, I would say maybe in that particular part of town, there might have been maybe. Umm. Maybe. And this is an estimate, maybe 50,000, 75,000 at the time, I don't know. But the community, the little town where I grew up, you know, like main street was just like, sort of equivalent to Ellicott City. Maybe add another street to the sideMcClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: And, and the park, central park. McClatchey: Ok McCarthy: So it wasn't really that big. Umm. McClatchey: Ok. So it's a small town, but not, not like a village?. McCarthy: It's a small town. No, it wasn't a super small, but part of it is cultural where people, you say hello to somebody and then your friends run away. (McClatchey laughs) Sort of like FacebookMcClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: -right? Like old time Facebook. And so even though there were like, a, a little small community here and then another one over here, we’d all sort of function together. So I knew people, we knew from other communities. Like I said I would be downtown, which wasn't necessarily the community where I was playing with friends and so forth, and I will play music during the Day of the Dead, and by the time I made it home my mother knew. And so, because somebody from here told this one (McClatchey laughs) and they were- and that's without phonesMcClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Imagine if there was, they had phones or the smartphone. McClatchey: Yeah. McCarthy: Yeah. McClatchey: Do you have a, uh, a childhood memory that stands out to you? You know, a favorite story? McCarthy: Maybe a mischievous one, because that's what will stand up more because, I'm sure there was some kind of consequence attached to it. Um, but you're talking as a young, a very young child, or what age? McClatchey: Whatever, whatever. �4 McCarthy; Whatever? Ok, I remember, I love coffee. OK. And so, but as a young child, when I was around 5, I wasn't really allowed to drink coffee yet. But, I knew that my grandmother had a pot of coffee brewing all the time because people will come and they will have, you know, give everybody coffee, or offer them coffee. So I remember somehow getting into that coffee, drinking the coffee more than-I don't even know how I survived that-because there's a lot of coffee that I drank, and having my mother being surprised at me. I don't know. (McClatchey chuckles). So that's sort of, I don't remember any consequence, but I'm sure there was something because it's always been stuck in my head. And the more happy, like older memory was my 15th, like quinceñera, 15th uh birthday celebration where my mother, who didn't like having parties at all, had a party in their house. At that time those celebrations were done at home because there wasn't really a venue with, where to have them. And they had a lot of food, and friends, and music, and dancing the first waltz. And, uh, it was sort of goofy, but it was so, you know, it was a mixture of adults with teenagers because that's the way they do parties over there. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Yeah. So that's another memory. McClatchey: Sounds like a lot of fun. McCarthy: Yeah, that was fun. I didn't want the party, but I, I had to have it. But at the end I, I ended up enjoying it. McClatchey: That’s good. McCarthy: Yeah. McClatchey: So you mentioned your school a little while ago. So my next question is like, so what is, what is your educational background? McCarthy: There? McClatchey: There and here I guess. McCarthy: Ok. Well over there as you know the school system is six years, six years. So, um, the six years in high school, you have the, you go three years and then you have the option to, for the last three years to have what they call, bachillerato, which is not, not to be confused with the bachelor degree here, but, would, would be the same word, but it's not a college degree. So you can either go, do science, business or education. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: And I think there was one for agriculture too, but that one, it was, one route that you could go, but you could get a job right after that, those three years. So, I chose science even though I wanted to choose, wanted education. But mostly to please my father because he wanted me to either be a nurse or a doctor and so I said, ‘Oh, I'll do that’. He was happy, but what I �5 really wanted to do was education. So that's, so my background in that sense then I had a lot of science classes, you know, and math, you know, which is not my favorite. Um, so that's that. Then from there, do you want me to tell you here? Because I didn't go toMcClatchey: Sure, yeah. McCarthy: -a college. From there, I went to a program in, to learn English in Santa Barbara. And that was two months long. And then I enrolled in a community college there, the first semester all my classes were English, English for the second learning, English 101, every, any, anything English. English grammar. And I think one history class maybe, maybe had history class. And then, um, then I transferred to another school and then eventually went to Cornell, came over here and finished school here in Towson. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: Yeah. And then I'm an education major, right. McClatchey: Ok. So you went to community college to Cornell to Towson? McCarthy: Well, but I didn't go to Cornell. I went there with a- because I was married. And so then, um, and so I worked there and then I took a class or so because I could do it for free. But, yeah, but um, but I didn't go, you know, it wasn’t likeMcClatchey: Right, enrolled? McCarthy: -pursuing a degree McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: or anything like that. It was just for fun. And then I finished over here at Towson. McClatchey: Ok. What year did you graduate? McCarthy: It was pretty late because after, I got, we got back from Cornell, I, we decided to have children. And I was pretty much set, we both were in agreement that a parent, one of us should be home full-time until they went to college. So I did that. So once they went to college, while they were in college, I also was going to school. So I graduated in 1997 I think it was. McClatchey: OK, well. McCarthy: Yeah, huh. McClatchey: So, kind of going back to high school a little bit, what, can you describe kind of a typical day in high school for you? McCarthy: A typical day would be, we walked to school, there was no bus. So, my walk to school was about a mile and a half. And so at my high school had a morning session, afternoonbut I had to go to both. It wasn't like you go to either. We got to school at around 7:30. Then we �6 left at 11:30 to go home for lunch, return at 1:00 and then from there we went until 4:00. And so, a typical day was making that walk, whether it was, well in the morning it wasn't too hot but we do get heavy rain storms uh, in the afternoon, whether you were making that walk with, under the sun or bad weather, heavy rains, going to school. And then, we will go from, whatever classes we had to take and the classes were different every [McCarthy notices McClatchey looking behind her to see time on oven] McCarthy: (whispers) Do you need a watch? McClatchey: (whispers) Oh no, you’re fine. I can see the, the time there. McCarthy: Ok, ok. McCarthy: They were, uh, the classes were different. It's not like you go to the same class over here. You go, maybe, I would have taken maybe French it might have been like Tuesdays and Thursday, but the other, you know the other day at the same period I might have had science. You know, likeMcClatchey: A little like college. McCarthy: So it's like, more like college, college in that sense. We moved the class, we had a one class together and we moved from classroom to class-uh, no, we stay in the classroom the teacher will come in. We were responsible for cleaning the class, keeping the classroom clean. Um, other than that, uh, the uh, days, just like over here at Centennial [high school where McCarthy taught and Caleb attended] where you guys will gather in the cafeteria before class, right? McClatchey: Yeah, or hallways, cafeteria. McCarthy: A lot of, or the hallways, the media center. We didn't have, you know, most people gather up front of the, like in the front of the school and wait. You know and that’s that where they waited until the bell rung and then they went to their res- you know their classes. And um, it wasn’t really, that was pretty much a typical day. McClatchey: And after school endedMcCarthy: Oh excuse me. Another, anoth- no, we didn't eat lunch there, so we had to go home, eat lunch and return. So we didn't have a cafeteria. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: Yeah, there was not a cafeteria. McClatchey: Ok. So you're walking aboutMcCarthy: Another- �7 McClatchey: 6 miles total? McCarthy: It was, yeah, we, we were very healthy. Just like the children are now because they have to walk a lot too. So um, so there was a lot of walking. Sometimes a friend with a family that-I didn't have a car so- but a family that had a car might still recognize me because of my parents, they would stop and give me, yeah, give me a ride. McClatchey: That’s nice. McCarthy: So yeah, something like that. But usually had to walk. Yeah, so. McClatchey: And so, like after school ended, what were maybe like, what would your kind of, your afternoon, evening look like? McCarthy: Well, after school ended, we went home because we didn't have the afte-rschool activities that you have here, like sports. The only sport that is played in the school that I remember was basketball. But that was during gym, but there wasn't the after school activities of teams, you know, OK, one school against the other. So you had to have your own after-school activities. Mine were, really my parents were very big on keeping busy and helping a lot around the clas-the house. So mine really went back to house chores [cell phone begins ringing] that I had to do. And, uh, so I'm meeting, you know, with friends, sometimes friends will come to study in the early evening we will study together or I will go to their home and study, but um, nothnothing after school. Yeah. McClatchey: Kind of talking in general about Panama, the culture there, how would you describe the culture? I know, I know you already kind of talked about in your town. McCarthy: Yeah, it's a very typical of any other Latin country. You went to Mexico. You know, the people can be very like, super friendly and a lot of terms of endearment, you know, like, like I will go and ask for directions to-everybody sweethearts you, (says in sweet tone) “amorcito”, “my love”, just “my dear one” like they, and nobody seems to take offense. That’s just the way people talk to one another. Even if they just met you and you're asking for directions, that's just how they talk. And so, that type of a culture, like I mentioned before, and that might be different now, but helping one anotherMcClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: -watching out for the people. I know that in my home there was a family across that didn't have much. There was an older couple, so my mother would make extra food and I will take it there for them. But, when my mother had to work evening shifts, my neighbor was just as aware as my mother was as to what I was doing or not doing, or should be doing, or shouldn't be doing. It’s a, a happy country. Few people, I think, leave because of that. They like to celebrate a lot and even when the situation is bad, for example, when Torrijos took over as a dictator-and I was living in Panama at that time, I was a teenager-when he took over, I remember initially it was, I had a lot of fear because I was at church at the time and I had to walk home and they had �8 the curfew, 9:00. And even though it, I could tell that I had more than enough time to make it home, I didn't think I was going to. So we were really, I was running-I never run-running (both laugh) and walk, running and walk, and I was terrified. But even during those times, people would have parties. They just knew that if you had a party, the people that you invited had to stay overnight because of the curfew. And so, but they still celebrated. And we hadMcClatchey: That’s awesome. McCarthy: You know, life went on. Yeah. Happy. McClatchey: Can you talk a little bit more about kind of that time in, in Panama? McCarthy: That time? McClatchey: Yeah, with, under the dictator. McCarthy: That time there. Yeah, like I said, yeah, like I said, it was, it was scary. It happened, I think it was, like. 7:00, and it happened in my town. That's where they took over, that's where they, yeah, where they did. It. And so and they had, it was scary because they say if you are on the street after 9:00 we're just going to shoot you. McClatchey: Oh my. McCarthy: And it's the type of world that you know that is not a threat. So you grow up knowing that when they say that, they mean it. So you're terrified. Now, when I went back, you know, in school, teenagers like we had the teenagers over here walking when they have, you know, when they have like rec-recently they're walking because of the conflict in Gaza, right. They, they do the walk outs. And I'm sure you participated in some. Over there, it wasn't so much doing the walkout. But more like teenagers will get involved. So I remember going downtown with a group of adults to protest the, the military takeover. And I actually went with one of my teachers, I'm even surprised. Can you imagine a teacher over here saying, “Come on and get in my car. We're going to go through that line.” And we crossed the line and there were a lot of bombs that were thrown. Those uh, tear McClatchey: Tear gas? McCarthy: Yeah, yeah, right. And so I can’t even think-I think I'd be terrified to do that now. But as a teenager we became very involved in the protesting, marching and so. But life become very scary because people were turning other people in and they were doing that sometimes for to help themselves. To get in grace with that government and get a job. And other times because they didn't like somebody, they were doing it like that. My mother lost her job because of that, not because anybody turned in her in, but because what happened is, after the takeover, some people went to the mountains and there were, like rebels that were fighting and fighting the police to regain, like, the, the government back and so there were, we knew that that was �9 happening and my mother was supposedly talking in code with a friend, on the phone talking about how many baby chicks died? And I guess it's not really much of a code (laughs) McClatchey: Yeah (laughs) McCarthy: So both of them lost their job, and so my father had family of influence that had money. I didn't have money, but they had money and were influential in the government, so they got her the job back but what they did was that they put her to work in a different town right next door to the police station. So they could keep an eye on her McClatchey: Oh, wow. McCarthy: Right, until she retired. But there was a lot of uncertainty, a lot of fear. I was told that you couldn't talk. Just don't talk to anybody. Don't voice your opinion. Because you will hear the, the news and you will hear about a priest disappear. Or a person disappeared, and somebody who was against the, the regimen, the military. And then the next day you will say, well, an ear was sent to the radio station that was from this person. So they will start sending like, parts (McClatchey makes disgusted sound) of the body, so it's very gross and mind boggling, like the sick things that went on. Like they’re very nasty things that you don't hear over here. Cruel a lot of, yeah, so for that reason I was told, you don't talk to anybody, you don't voice opinions, you just have to be careful. Don't even look at a policeman the wrong way because they might take offense to it and so. Yeah. So it was, it was tense, it was bad. Um, and then that person was, during one of my visits was um, I'm sure he was killed because he's, the plane that he was on a little small plane just crashed. McClatchey: Who? Which person, sorry? McCarthy: Then the one that took over Torrijos. Yeah. And then Noriega came after that. Noriega was the one I think that orchestrated his plane coming down and then he became the person. So there was a, Noriega didn't take over, it was somebody else. McClatchey: And you said that happened over your town, or? McCarthy: Er they took over my town. McClatchey: No you said the plane crashed? McCarthy: No, not in my town, but in the mountains. McClatchey: Ok McCarthy: I think he was coming to my town, but it was in the mountains at the province right before. But I was visiting with my daughters, they were young. I was afraid, I said, don't talk, don't talk, not in, not in English. Because when anything like that happens if you're an American, you want to hide and I, I'm not American, but that, that's it. Don't use English, just don't talk. McClatchey: And just so, just to get a sense of the timeline here around when did they? �10 McCarthy: When did they take over? Again, I came over here in 69 so that might have been, that might have happened 1966 or 67 and, and I'm not a historian. I don’t, but I'm just estimating based on when I came over. McClatchey: Ok, and yeah I mean I can like check. McCarthy: Yeah, right. You can check it out. But it was in theMcClatchey: So your last few years in Panama. McCarthy: My last few years, well I would say my last probably two or three, three years. So it's 1966, 67. Yeah, mhm. McClatchey: And so, kind of transitioning from there. What, what can you tell me about your like immigration experience? McCarthy: Mhm. Ok. With the immigration experience, I'd like to combine that one with my sister’s, if that's OK. McClatchey: OK, sure. McCarthy: Because most people that we know of, like when we talk about immigration or we see immigration over here we have that picture of people at the border trying to cross over. And they're coming from horrible situations. That wasn’t my case. I didn't walk, I didn't cross the border illegally. My mother was a very strong woman and both my parents really, we didn't have any money. We were very poor and I can mention that it, you know, explain that a little bit later. We were very poor. So my mother decided that my sister, being the older one, was going to come to the states. She didn't know how it was going to happen. But she knew that we were going to come. So one day she was looking at her bank account, the little money that she had saved, and they had made a mistake on her account. So she went to the bank and said, Sir, you made a mistake, you have given me $5000 extra that are no mine. So I'm here for you to correct the mistake. So the bank teller did the correction. So when my sister, when it was time for my sister to come to the states, my mother, she didn't have the money. My father didn't have the money. So she went to the bank to borrow money. So the bank teller was now the loan, the person that was giving the loans. So she went to him and said I need to borrow money so that my daughter can go to the states to study. So he says, I remember you, You're a very honest lady so, and, you know, put the loan through. So that was for one semester. So my mother got the money. My sister came to the states and she finished college through that loan, you know, like the next time my mother would go say, well, I haven't paid the loan yet, I don't know how to get the money. And he goes no problem, we just borrow ex-, we borrow extra, pay that one and then keep the loan going. So. �11 What, ok. So that's how my mother sent my sister here and that will be tied to me, you know in a little bit. Um, what people don't know sometimes like is that, well, what we see is people that travel long ways to come to the States and go through horrible things, and some of them died. But not much is said about people that stay behind. So my mother, the two of us, my parents, were divorced and had divorced at that time. So the two of us were left behind. My mother was using pretty much every little penny that she made to pay as much on that loan so she could get the next one to keep my sister here. So what that meant for the two of us is that there wasn't really that much to eat. So my mother would buy (pauses) a loaf of bread. Buy, you know, you can buy coffee, like a little containers and make like 2 cups of coffee. And she will make the 2 cups of coffee in the morning. She had a loaf of bread. She will cut it in half. And we would each have a fourth of that loaf with the coffee, and that was our breakfast. And then lunch, there wasn't really a lunch. And then we would go to dinner time. My mother would take the coffee grounds from that coffee. Now she will make two other cups of coffee (McClatchey laughs), which were very weak, right? You can only imagine. Probably see-through coffee. And you know, you add milk to that. And then the other bread, the bread that was leftover. And that was the, the meal. So there was a lot of sacrifice, a lot of, I began to, myself as a teenager, look for ways that I could earn money. And so one of the priests in my church had written a book that he was selling. He was selling for $0.60. He told me. He said you can go home to home and sell it for $0.60, you get to keep $0.10. So I said, OK. So I went house to house selling these books. And then with the, the, the first time I sold the books, I remember going to the store, but you had the $0.10. So I sold one book and I had those $0.10. So you could go to the little corner store and at that time you could buy $0.05 of rice and that will give you like [gestures amount] and five cents of beans. And so, and then I went home and cooked them and surprised my mother with a meal. The other option, and I remember thinking well, I could buy a coke for a nickel and I could buy a sweet for a nickel (McClatchey laughs), like a little pastry, right. McClatchey: Yeah. McCarthy: But I don't, you know, nobody likes being hungry. So the other one would last longer, and it was more nutritious. So that and then I will go to my, I told you my grandmother lived nearby, like, go 2 houses down. So I will go there and my grandmother will, will feed me because she knew what was going on, you know, like, what, you know was happening. But it was a lot and people question you like, how is she doing that? How is she doing that? Then my sister went back, you know, went back to the Panama, work for a while and then came back. And so now it was my turn to come to the states. So, again, there wasn't that much money because my mother was making, you know, I think it was like $55 a month or something. It was just really nothing. So, um, she worked for the telegraph company. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: Yeah. So, so in any case, so she couldn't buy the airline ticket for me to come here. So the only way that she could buy the ticket was in this program: you fly now and pay later type �12 of thing. So she got the ticket and then she had to pay monthly to that airline. And then I, my sister looked up that program in, in, um, Santa Barbara, CA where you go for two months and learn English. So my mother had, I don't even know how she got, she didn't get, she didn't have all the money. I remember she sent me with some of the money and she said to me, she said, just tell your sister she has to come up with the rest of the money. I remember, remember my sister was so surprised and not happy that she had to somehow suddenly come up with the rest of the tuition because my mother sent as much as she had. McClatchey: Was your sister there at the time, too, in Santa Barbara? McCarthy: My sister. Yeah. My sister was living in Los Angeles. McClatchey: OK. McCarthy: Yeah, she was working and living there at that time with her husband. So, so I went to that program. But so when after I finished that program and I went to the community college, I remember those memories from my sister being here were ingrained in my head. And I kept, it was hard for me, like she might have been able to enjoy her time when she was in Texas going to school because she didn't know what was happening at home. But I knew what had happened, so I didn't want to, you know, like my mother had to send me money for books and money for, I had to find, my sister helped me find a place to live. I was living with this family, but I, we had to pay her. And so whenever I was so worried about that that, that I ended up leaving that home and putting an ad in the paper and looking for a place where I could live, get a room in exchange for either cleaning or babysitting. So I did get that. It was within walking distance to the school where I babysat and helped with the cleaning of the house and I didn't have to pay for my room because I, that was so ingrained my- what we lived through my sister was so ingrained in my head that I didn't want my mother to go through more years like that. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: So I wanted to minimize that. And so, um. (pauses) Now. So that's my, that was my coming over here. So it's not, it wasn't a hardship of having to walk many miles and waiting at the border. The hardship was, for me was when my sister was here, there was a hardship of having to do without because she was here. McClatchey: Sure, yeah. McCarthy: And then that guilt of being here while my mother is there. And I had no choice, I mean, I didn't want to come here. But I had no choice, as, you know, in that culture you they tell you this is what you're going to do and there is no discussion. Right, so. McClatchey: So that, that kind of takes me to my next question which is, why, why did you immigrate? So, I mean, it sounds you’ve kind of mentioned it. �13 McCarthy: Right, it was, yeah, it was, I wanted to go, believe it or not I wanted to go to Russia. And the reason is tied to my sister, all this is tied to my sister. Because at the time that I was getting ready to graduate, Russia had gone to my little town and was looking, like doing the propaganda, looking for students to go to Russia. So they were offering a really good deal, I thought. My mother just didn't go for it. She actually got mad that I even suggested it. But they were going to pay my college education, everything room, board, everything. And in addition to that, they were going to give her a monthly check to my mother to help her and I thought well, you don’t have to go hungry. You don't have to, we don't, you don’t have to do what you did with my sister, right? McClatchey: Right. McCarthy: And, but I had to go back. I, I didn't have the option of staying in Russia if I liked it. I had to go back. So I knew that was propaganda because you go back and you talk about it and it makes them look good and all that stuff. But my mother got really upset when I suggested it. So that's where I wanted to go but she said, you know, you're going to the states. And that was it. Not up to you-not up for discussion, yeah. McClatchey: In your first few, so once you got to the States and when, were in community college, you, you stayed right? Like you didn't come back like your sister? Or I mean like maybe trips, but like you were there permanently then? McCarthy: I had to stay because we didn't, my parents didn't have the money for me to go and visit. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: Yeah. Same, same when my sister was over, she couldn't. She cried she wanted to go back and she wanted to go and visit. I, you know she, well, we didn't hear her cry, but she wrote letters where she was begging to go and visit, but there wasn't enough money for that. So the, the answer was always no. McClatchey: Yeah. In your first few years in the United States, what, what stood out to you as most different from Panama? McCarthy: A lot of things were so different, very different. I guess (pauses) even I'm going to go back to the first, you know, my first two months when I was in that program. Um, I mean, not necessarily people related, but more language related was that I wanted, I was so accustomed to assigning everything a gender that I remember being like, stop. I would begin talking about the pretty table. She's so, I like her, you know, she's so, the, her colors are really pretty and she's so, you know, beautiful and you know. And, and so people will stop and that, that was like a conversation stopper. McClatchey: Ah. �14 McCarthy: And people would be confused. So I remember, like, grammatically that was the one thing that always it took me, maybe one of the first self-correcting things that I did because it would, because people stop and question it. McClatchey: Sure, yeah. McCarthy: So it's like one of the first things that I started to correct. As far as culturally? The thing that really stood out for me was like I was so used to people just dropping by the house whenever. And so you always have to be ready that anybody would show up. And my mother will be like, [hits table multiple times emphatically] the house has to be cleaned by 9:00 because anybody could come. So that was my job duty. We had tile flooring because it's humid so you couldn't really have carpet. It wasMcClatchey: Mhm. McCarthy: Yeah so. So those tiles, thetile flooring had to be swept every day, had to be mopped every day and everything had to be perfect. That's because people might come and you don't want to be messy. And because people would just drop. Anytime. They could be walking and they go, oh, I think I want to see Maria. And they would just stop. With us over here, I noticed that people didn't like that. That was, what I call appointment making. Like you told me, you know, we talked about you coming at 1:00, right? [The time of the interview] McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Right. So, and I had to get used to that, to arrange my life with letting people know when I was going to be someplace, if I was going to be. And maybe ask, not just say. Because people don't ask, they just show up. McClatchey: That's really interesting. That’s a big difference. McCarthy: Yeah, that they just, they might even go from one city like Panama City, they will go to David and they will just call my mother and say, Maria, I'm going to be there for the weekend so I'll see you, I mean, get that room ready for me. (McClatchey laughs) So there was not any, Can I come over? Is it convenient for you? None, none of that. And then the other thing that you have might, you might have noticed when you went to Mexico, Mexico is the proximity, you get close to people when you talk. It’s closer and arms around, or like they're teasing, more affectionate. So those are the, like, I guess what stood out as far as people. There were a lot other things but they were more physical. McClatchey: Ok. McCarthy: You know, like the homes, the way things work. Not understanding, being confused coming from a place that wasn't really up to, was very old, didn’t have doorbells (laughs), didn't have a lot of things that were confusing to me. �15 McClatchey: Ok, so also in this first few years did you, I know you said you didn't get a chance to travel backMcCarthy: Mmm, no. McClatchey: Did you keep any other connections to Panama in any way or to your family? McCarthy: Um yes, through letters. Because again, you know, it was too expensive to call. For, I for me to call or for them to call me. Now, it's easier to, you know, and it's not as expensive nowadays, but at that time it was. It was a lot through letters. And I kept in contact with my mother and my, some of my cousins, friends through letters writing, yeah. The art of writing letters, which is forgotten by now, yeah. McClatchey: Yeah. McCarthy: Yeah, mhm. McClatchey: And so kind of since those initial years you, you said you call more now. Are there any other ways since then that you've kind of kept that connection going? McCarthy: Um, (pauses), once I was out of that, once I was able to work and was able to earn money and then I was making phone calls, I was calling. So you know, like you could, I would get those calling cards, the little calling cards that I don't know that they even exist anymore, that you will pay like for, supposedly you could talk for three hours. You use them once for 20 minutes and it was gone. Like they, no, they never really work the way they were supposed to work, but that's what I used for calling. I would go to the Latin stores and get those. But um, but it wasn't even that often. It was more like for birthdays or different celebrations that we will call each other, right? McClatchey: Um, did you ever visit, eventually? McCarthy: Yes. Once, once I decided to, once I was going to get my green card, for me to get the green card, because I'm from this continent, I couldn't get it and staying here. I had to leave the country and reenter. So it could have been, I didn't have to go to Panama, I could have gone to Mexico and re-enter, but I chose and I had the money to go to Panama. So I went to Panama, visited, and then re-entered to get a green card. And then after that I was, you know, I started to visit and then my mother would also come and visit. McClatchey: So you had to re-enter to get the green card? McCarthy: Right? That's one of the differences between the European countries and the Americas is that in, if I had been from Spain, like a Spanish, um, I would have been able to get my green card here without having to go back to Spain. But in this continent you have to leave and reenter. McClatchey: Interesting. �16 McCarthy: Isn't that? Yeah, yeah. McClatchey: So do, was this that, just, was that just something that you would get as you’re crossing back in sort of thing? Like, or why, why is it that you had to go back and come back? Or is that just how it works. McCarthy: It's just the way that the laws are. I always found that interesting the way that the laws are. I don't know, but you have to exit and reenter. And of course, the paperwork is already done. You know, all the paperwork is done prior and then, to some extent, and then I get the ca-, I go to the embassy in Pan- the U.S. embassy in Panama and then finalize it and then I get the card and then I re-enter. I had to re enterMcClatchey: OK. McCarthy: But I cannot get it here, I had to leave the country. McClatchey: Interesting. McCarthy: Yeah. And I don't know that that has changed, but that's the way it was when I got the green card. McClatchey: Do you remember around what year that was? When, when you first went back and got the green card? McCarthy: (pauses) Let me see. Go back to 75, 74. Might have been 70…69…72. McClatchey: OK, so about three years after you arrived in the U.S. McCarthy: Yeah, right. McClatchey: Um, kind of transitioning to like your career and just what you've done here in the US, can, can you tell me about the occupations you've had here, both maybe professionally and also, you know, being, being a mother? McCarthy: Right. Well, yeah, the number one occupation was being a mother, I enjoyed that a lot. I like, I like young kids. I like kids. I like the humor, even when they're being mischievous, they are funny and no different toddlers no different than teenagers, but they're, they're like, very much alike. Yeah. Um, but I, (pauses) being a mother, I guess before when I was at school, I worked as a, in the language lab for a while. Uh, I have to make money somewhere with when I was going to school. Believe it or not I painted to make money to pay for tuition. Paint their homes, clean homes, mhm, in the summer to gather enough money to pay for my tuition. Sort of forget about that, was thinking about it recently, but yeah. Yeah, the cleaning some of their homes, were like, the stove where I was like, I don't know that I can clean that stove (McClatchey laughs) because people will call to get the house cleaned for the wedding, for example, and then you have to do all this cleaning that has, had not been done for years. �17 But before I became, before I went to work in high school, I worked as, in the preschool, because I like that age, that was the age that I felt the most comfortable with. Because they were not tall like you (laughs), so, they were little and they were cute and they, you know, I like the way that they look at the world. So I worked in a preschool for many years and then after that, in church, I was asked to work with teenagers. And not work for money but like, you know, as part of mom, my, one of the things that I did in church was for, it was teenagers. And that's when I realized, came to the realization that they were just really bigger toddlers. And so when I went to college, that's where I decided to go and get a degree on, (thinking) eighth through twelfth once I felt comfortable, otherwise I would have gone with elementary school. But through the church and working with the teenagers, I realized that they’re just big toddlers. And so, so after that I worked, went to work at the high school. But before then, I took, for two years, I volunteered, no money. I volunteered, you know, at the, with the hospice in Howard County. And I also, in the school, when my kids were going to school, I was usually the room mother. Prepare all those parties and get stuff together for the, the school. And um, Girl Scout leader, did things that I don't like to do, like sleep in the, in the park going to, you know, taking the kids to sleep over. So I did a lot of things, volunteered, some of it was volunteered and some others I got some money. Like for the preschool I got money, not really, money like to go out to lunch. They don't really pay that much, even the teachers, they don't pay them that much. McClatchey: And so when, you said up until your kids went to college, were you, you primarily staying at home? McCarthy: I was a stay-home mom and I do, during that time I, you know, either volunteered at the school, sometimes if I wasn’t a room mom, I will volunteer to go and give a talk or help with something, organize something. I was a Girl Scout leader, I volunteered at a Hospice, um, you know I use, I, because I will get bored at home, I guess. Yeah. So I will try to find something to do. Yeah. McClatchey: Sounds like you did like a variety of stuff. McCarthy: Yeah, right, yeah. McClatchey: Can you talk a little bit about your experience, like teaching, in the US? McCarthy: Oh, I love teaching. I guess it's, I guess I always view teaching not so much as teaching the content more than I saw it more as a, molding a person to be the most that they can be. And sometimes that didn't go too well with some students. But I just felt that, I don't know if you, I don't think you were in a class where I would give my little lectures about the students putting their head on the, on the desk. And, you know, and I would be like guys, I’m going to stop right now. You're going to pretend that you're at work. And you really hate your boss. You don't like the job. But you're going to sit there and you're going to look interested. And you’re �18 going to, you know, you don't let them know, you don't put your head down. You, you know, it's like a little acting job, I said. And this is a practice for that. So. (both laugh) But they didn't, you know, some, some students didn't like that. But that was really the main thing that I saw that, because in my personal life I had teachers that made a difference in my life. And they were not necessarily always my favorite teachers. And so I, I enjoyed the teaching for that reason. And then when it comes to teaching the subject, I enjoy when the students were able to use the language, that brought me a lot of enjoyment, it was, it really when I would hear them speak. That was very rewarding. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Yeah. When I heard that you went to Mexico, even though you did that on your own, but you, I taught you for two years I was like, oh my gosh, so good. Or, uh, Mr. Ahearn’s, his daugh-I taught his, well he has four children, but I taught three. The other one went to private school. But I taught, Riley became a Spanish teacher. And now she's, she went from Spanish to ESOL, she's working with ESOL teaching. But I taught her and I taught her husband too. McClatchey: That's awesome. McCarthy: Yeah. So when they got married, they invited me, but I didn’t the wedding. But yeah, so when I see that that the kids, they don't have to major in the language, but if they use it and if I could help them be a better person, I guess, that's the way I side more so than teaching the content, yeah. McClatchey: Sure, that sounds very fulfilling to know that, kind of, you made an impact on that and helped. McCarthy: But yeah, yes. McClatchey: Yeah, to do that, yeah. McCarthy: Yeah, yes, yeah, and some of that, you know, it's, you know, I saw some of the students. You cannot impact, you cannot make an impact on everybody. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Yeah, but then I saw some results with some of the students that have very low self esteem, some of them didn't think that they were smart. And there is one that, he friended me on Facebook recently that, I, he wrote, it's funny because I was reading this note that he wrote to me. And it was one of the nicest notes-this is before your time-there was some kind of like poetry competition in this, in the system, county and I had them, you know, I could have them memorize like a short poem, but it was, what’s the point in that? So I had them memorize a long poem that was very, had a lot of rhythm to it, that it was easy to memorize because of that. So we memorized that, and then they had to compete through the, with the, within the school, and then one person was selected and they had to go to the county and compete with all the other schools. �19 So, Oji I think was the kids name, what, so in any case, he, you know, he wasn’t like the most studious student. And he was smart and I used to talk with him all the time, and I said you’re so smart. If you just, you know, do like, you know, it was. But even after he left my class, I will talk with him every so often about that. But in any case, he was chosen to be the one from Centennial to compete. So I went with him to the competition and he had a drum and he was drumming and he won the county competition thing. So he wrote a very nice, wrote me a very nice note about that, how that he felt like I had followed his career like, because I used to call him and said come on, do your stuff. And so, but yeah, so that kind of stuff is rewarding. So, but um, and that's what I miss. I don't really miss the adults, or the system. Yeah, but that's it. McClatchey: So, I mean, obviously you taught Spanish so that, you know, your background helped you in that, but in general, how did or did being an immigrant kind of impact your experience teaching? And if so, how so? McCarthy: Well, the, the being, knowing the language is actually not, it's not a, as a positive thing, in a sense. Maybe with the AP class helps. But with the initial, like the level one, two and three, I would say the first couple of years that I taught, I was not really, didn't do a good job with that because when you, that's your first language, you take a lot of things for granted. And you explain and you think it's understood. So it's better like to, you know, it took me a couple of years to put myself in the American mind. Like the American mind, how you might be looking at something. Because to me it was common sense that you get rid of the -ar and put the endings. But that was confusing, and some of the things that, the mistakes that the students made didn't make sense to me. But once I started to pay attention, I go, OK, that's what makes sense to them. So when I explained it, I have to look at that angle, I cannot be looking at it from mine. And so that, you know, knowing the language was maybe not a positive thing at the beginning. But as an immigrant, um, that's a hard question. As an immigrant, how did that? McClatchey: And maybe and maybe it didn't, I'm just. McCarthy: No, but no, because I never even thought about it. But now, um, well (thinking) as an immigrant, it helped me get a job because people mis-, people think that because you know Spanish, that it’s going to really be helpful in the job so it helped me in that sense. And it gave me credit, helped with the credibility with parents, at least those early years when I really should have not been given so much credit for it. But you know, but also, as an immigrant, I guess, even though I didn't understand the, the language differences completely, it helped me with having the base on how I learn English. Try to explain that to the students and sometimes there was a year where that didn't go too well and the class was like disappearing because they were terrified. And they were terrified because I said, you know, you knew that in my class you had to use Spanish, right? And I made it like that because that's how I learned English. I mean, I was in a, in a program where it would have been so easy for them to let me use Spanish. But I couldn't even eat without using English. They were told, if she doesn't use English, she doesn’t get food. McClatchey: Oh, wow. �20 McCarthy: So, I had to, the workers in the cafeteria were told that because I used to just go and point. And they were nice, they used to give to me (McClatchey laughs), but then they were told that I had to call it by name because they had the name there. So I understood at one point that in order to learn the language, you had to put it to use. So, in that sense, maybe that's one takeaway, take from, being an immigrant, knowing that you had to use the language. Because some people are here for a very long time and they don't learn English because they're afraid to use it. But the, just like in the class, some people don't want to use it because they don't want to be embarrassed, right? But the less you use it, the less you learn it, because you have to put it to use for your mind to start making all those connections that need to be made to then, and then to self-correct as you go along so that, that will be I think, one thing that I was very big, I don't know that, I don't know that any other teacher was. Mrs. Comito [another Spanish teacher at our former high school] now is. Mrs. Comito yeah she calls me now, she, we talk every day. So she asked me, what was the, the thing that you did so that they will use Spanish in the class. And so, but I think that would be the takeaway, because I was in a situation where, in the program that I went to, besides not being able to get food unless I call it by name, I was the person that knew the least Spanish. So the American people that were participating in that group, for credit I'm sure, whenever they saw me, they had to talk to me in English. And they would have to go, this is a table, what is it? And I had to say, this is a table. So at the end of the day my head was like, I hurt because there were like, I, I was avoiding people. I would be getting off the elevator and I saw somebody and I would (laughs) hit the next floor. To avoid them, I will pretend to be asleep when my roommate will come to the room, because I just, I can't deal with it, I don't want to, I don't want anybody to ask me anymore questions. Right? And so, so I guess I realized that you had to use it, so that might be some take. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: Because also my career, I pretty much pushed the use of the language in the classroom. McClatchey: I definitely, I like that aspect of your classes. Even in college, there's some professors who push that more than others. AndMcCarthy: Right. McClatchey: I think it helps when they when they do push it, yeah. McCarthy: Yeah, you have to use it, otherwise, you can’t, yeah. McClatchey: And then one of my, my final, one of my like 2 questions left. What, what would you say is your current occupation? What, what do you now? McCarthy: Well, being re- you know, I'm doing a lot of things. Didn't you work outside? Didn't you mow lawns? I remember you mentioned that youMcClatchey: In high school, yeah. �21 McCarthy: Yeah, I remember you said that. I don't know if you noticed when you came in, I can show you, like a, there's like a, river bed, or like, I I'll show you when we go outside. McClatchey: Sure. McCarthy: But I, I work, I love working outside. So I, there is a water issue around here that with the way the water runs. So I decided to make the house more water safe. So, I, I went, went around the perimeter of the house and, but I used plastic, I don't know if I'm supposed to use plastic or not, and then I put the rocks, pebbles and put them all around. And then on the front on one side I created like a, like a almost like a riverbed that goes to the side to take the water that way. And then I'm supposed to, this year, do the other side, but now I have a conflict with that. But so, so my jobs really right now I have a couple of jobs. One is to keep active physically and enjoy being, you know, like I go for walks, like I work outside. And then being a grandmother. I have two teenager teenage grandchildren. One of them is a boy and he's a little bit, um, I don't know, he’s had some uh, difficulties. He's a very good student, he gets all A’s, hates school. So first when I call him, when I call him, he goes, what, what do you want. Because that's how I talk to him, so he, you know, we can relate with that kind of silliness. And I told him one day, I said be nice, I'm a senior citizen, I could, I could report you (laughs). So, but so, I think I see my job as being, because he, he has, he's at the age where he's having difficulty with his parents, like not in agreement. He's not in agreement with the church. You're going to church and he's not ateverything is boring, but, especially church. And, although he's going to go to a church camp on his own, his decisions, I don't know. How is that any different? Uh, mom? My daughter read a book and she says some boys at that age-I don't know that that's all boys, I cannot imagine you doing that-cannot stand the, the voice of the mother and they think that the fathers are jerks. So that's the book that she read. And so they get into these silly arguments and I don't get it. And so he, you know, I'm his person to go to, so like, his support and then the same thing with my granddaughter. So I see my role as a grandparent being, you know, like I'm there for all the games. They moved to Frederick so tomorrow I'm driving to Frederick for a basketball game. I don't even, it's not, I don't know if, what part of Frederick it is. It might be like an hour, an hour and a half driving. Then I go to the little girl is [intelligible] age, so she has all this, you know, the fair, all these things. You know the viola, we’re gonna, they have all these concerts, she plays the viola. And so I, that's what I see, it's like my, that, being that grandparent trying to be that grandparent, grandmother that my grandmother was to me. Because she was very, I felt like she saved me many ways. I want to be that grandparent to them. And on that, because of that, which is why that's going to have to be postponed, that other part of it, I bought a house in Frederick. McClatchey: Ohhh, wow. McCarthy: Umm, actually, I just settled on the house yesterday. McClatchey: Exciting. �22 McCarthy: Because I want to be closer. Because it's a 45 minute drive for where they live, so sometimes, (pauses) when Sean has a bad day… but I have a feeling that he walks that fine line (pauses) like that and so. What is that he told me he got called to the office, andd he was so mad, he says, they're blaming me for stuff I didn't do (makes crying noise). I said, ok, what did you do? Or what, you know, but they were accusing him of something they actually, he actually had not done. But they did, you know, but they were too close to, to they made the call without really investigating. Once they investigated they find out who did it and who was at fault. But, but he's a little rebel. He doesn't like so, so I'll be there. He asked me if I if I will buy a basketball hoop and I said sure, I can have basketball hoop. I said I'll beat you (McClatchey laughs). Yeah. So that's my main role. And then of course, in addition to that, I like to keep, I like to play Sudoku. I like to do that. I like to do the, the word games, uh New York Times. McClatchey: The Wordle. Yeah. OK. McCarthy: The Wordle, the Connections that really is not connections. Do you do that? McClatchey: Yeah, I’ve played that. Yeah, I don't play it often but yeah, I’ve played it. McCarthy: Yesterday one group was name of animals backwards. What is that? (McClatchey laughs) I mean, I wouldn’t-just stretching that thing. So yeah, so just keeping, try to keep active. Like I said, I do a lot of walk, you know, with the neighbors if they need help, I help them. I have been in this neighborhood for 30 some years, so pretty much know the older neighbors and then the young ones too. There's a little kid, little toddler over there (motions behind her house) that comes to visit me in the summer and comes to water the plants in the summer. McCarthy: But yeah, so just um, keeping busy. I think it's important to keep busy no matter what age, there is always room to grow. And learn. McClatchey: Yeah. McCarthy: Yeah. McClatchey: That’s awesome, sounds like you still live a very full life. McCarthy: Yeah, I have to do, I was asked to work at a, another school like a private school, but that, that’s where Reily Ahearn used to work, so that, that lady who was in charge, we worked together before so she knows me. I think I, I taught her daughter when she was in preschool. But I think I'm ok not going to work. I go to visit Centennial, though. McClatchey: Oh do you? McCarthy: I go, yeah. I have to go, probably go next week sometime again. I usually bring them lunch, uh, my little department. Is this enough now that we finish? McClatchey: Yeah, I will. Yeah, I just have one, one question to wrap up. McCarthy: Ok, one more question. �23 McClatchey: Yeah. And then we can go after that. So just last question to wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to tell me as part of the interview before we finish? McCarthy: Well, that, the only thing that I always say is on my mind is that, people don't understand, you know, like, I always feel that there is that, that we sometimes don't know the shoes that other people walk in, like we don't know, you know, tend to make assumptions that people are coming here, you know as to why people come over. And I think that everybody, like through this, everybody has a story. You know, some people are escaping really bad situations. My, in my case, my mother wanted me to have a really good education that she didn't see, that she, it could be provided there because at the time that my sister and I went to school, there was only one university. And so it was limited space to go, to get in. And most of those spaces most likely would have been taken by those people that had connections, that had the money. So that would have left us out. So I think that was her motivation. You know, she wanted us to have that education and this is coming from a lady that finished her high school degree when I was going to high school. Because she hadn't, didn't have it. So she went at night, enrolled. So that was, you know, like, and so everybody come for a different reason and I think we just need to, you know, to think about that and not be so quick to criticize or make assumptions. Um, yeah so that, that's it. McClatchey: Thank you so much forMcCarthy: You're welcome. You're welcome. McClatchey: taking the time to do this, I learned a lot. I’ll end the recording now. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Caleb McClatchey Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Argentina McCarthy Location The location of the interview Columbia, Howard County, MD, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Argentina McCarthy Description An account of the resource This interview between Caleb McClatchey and Argentina McCarthy explores Argentina’s adolescence in Panama and her adult life as an immigrant in the United States. Growing up in the small town of David, she speaks about Panamanian culture and navigating poverty and political turmoil in her teen years. Argentina intertwines her immigration experience with her older sister’s, recounting the sacrifices she and her mother made in Panama to allow her sister to immigrate first. While Argentina did not want to immigrate, she was forced to come study by her mother and arrived to the United States in 1969 at age 18. Argentina discusses her struggles learning English and making ends meet upon initially arriving. She highlights the different roles she has had in her time here: a stay-at-home parent, then a high school Spanish teacher, and now a grandparent. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Caleb McClatchey Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 1, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource pdf, jpeg, mp4 Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio immigrant Panama parent Poverty teacher https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/8cca7d31e217957d9ddde97018b966dc.png?Expires=1781740800&Signature=vOPhwZHnFFEp3IAyyMekuSkYEA3F%7Em39Qr8cOk1Oj-nrVZwy-t1h6YODshXNGBHHCiVDWD1fB5jq2-NRTxJqqsEITC7PPhAZoOn2mXEJHuBSuJ77r1n9hCLyaBY-gU-flNxF2Hm-SgGmu1dhAhHiKhgy71gVgLoJViWPAbQQhTqyDm-%7E47224aQbFFkKj1iibtBQqznBG14il%7E08hUH4Xi-8JBmfexWwqFqvpcJGb7kNOk72zsIt-%7ETubDE5hQSCoQSBnFwPaONFtVsnsdwFQgSBw%7ExIbhWzdldmL2EMW9bZy4-k8AecjZw5kqCrkS8XhyGCY46bV12zYh3X3Hg%7ETw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/2752c0eac564ebd3d5bcea2666dee46e.pdf?Expires=1781740800&Signature=IxExN06eXmEMafFCBogy0TcxBvdVS9HXmCWVrVSRGE--r2lYLZQzzKG-7VBIBJis5xUUOXPYqRz3pp2gi1zfc%7EnUsdqGCF6ZztffnZAmCh2y1gPpIxckI307J3ykvci0mJ20Lms%7EtZhCTRdiGDLOGpxBUJwElIJ56FOt3sCf9vKznRM-1CwPe-NgQeyRHwT3OIX%7E48XB2VZoHMRVSe0g9d95tFSSz6VwIAguy%7EFyXPSclBevEjGML-wccidZ%7ERJuFBQPNYrik32q3J5tQEnlM9bfrSZVCL3GVCP43QsJL9aW%7EBADl8qruNWBXkaT1ejWIfqhwNRfzzEBbfVEZxJuXQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 1aa27daef38d4470f2448dc277fd02fe PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland IMMR400- Spring 2024 Instructor: Dr. Colleen Woods Interviewer’s Name: Claire O’Donnell Interviewee’s Name: Oleg Obolensky Interviewee’s County of Origin: Russia Interviewee’s Current Residence: Rockville, Montgomery Country, Maryland, United States Date of Interview: April 10, 2024 Place of Interview: In Person, College Park, Prince George’s County, Maryland, United States [via Voice Memo] Introduction: This interview between Claire O’Donnell and Oleg Obolensky discusses Oleg’s journey from Russia to the United States in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to complete postdoc research for one year on a J-1 visa. After he returned back to Russia, Oleg then traveled back to Pittsburgh to continue his research with an NSF NATO funded grant opportunity. In Pittsburgh, Oleg had his first son; then, he returned to Russia after one and a half years after his grant expired. After four months in Russia, Oleg moved to Frankfurt, Germany to work at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies. After remaining in Germany for a few years and having his second child, once Oleg’s first son reached school age, his family moved to permanently settle in Rockville, Maryland, where he currently works at the National Institute of Health. By mapping and sharing his immigration journey, Oleg describes assimilation into the United States compared to Germany and living through the collapse of the Soviet Union. Throughout this discussion, Oleg discusses how he received each work opportunity as being based on “luck”, presenting a theme of things happening to him by chance. Oleg’s story offers insights into how after the Fall of the Soviet Union, scientific collaboration between scientists in Russia, the United States, and Germany worked together to bridge research. In turn, these insights reveal how each scientific endeavor influenced Oleg’s immigration story. Keywords: Russia, Pittsburgh, Germany, Rockville, Physics, Science, Research, Opportunity, Soviet Union, Visa, Family �Claire: Thank you so much for agreeing to participate in this interview today. Before I begin, I would like to clarify that this interview will be recorded, transcribed and published in the Maryland Archive of Immigrant Voices. However, you have the option to have your name be omitted from the transcription and if you would like, you can read through the transcription yourself and request that certain information be left out of the published version after the interview. Would you like to be anonymous on the published version of this interview? Oleg: No. Claire: No? Okay, sounds good. Let's begin. So, thank you so much for agreeing to meet with me today and participate in this interview. Can we begin by having you state your name, age and tell me a little bit about yourself and your background? Oleg: My name is Oleg Obolensky, I’m 51 years old, uh (pause) no background? Claire: Like background? Oleg: Alright. I'm a (pause) staff scientist at the National Institute of Health. I'm educated as a theoretical physicist in, uh, St. Petersburg, Russia. And I worked as a theoretical physicist for many years and then at some point I came to the U.S. to be biophysicist. Claire: (pause) Thank you for that. So to begin, I would like to ask you questions about your childhood experiences and young adult life in Russia. So, I understand that you grew up in St. Petersburg. Can you tell me, um, about any stories that you have from your hometown? Oleg: Well, that's too general question. What kinds of stories? – Claire: – anything about growing up in that city, so like, what was it like for you? Anything like that? Anything you fondly remember? Oleg: Well, it was the typical Soviet large city. St. Petersburg is considered like the most, uh, educated, uh, and culture centered city in Russia. Uh, so it is an industrial city but it also has a lot of, uh, research and education, uh, centers and, uh, uh (pause) the citizens are proud to consider themselves, uh, culturally advanced – if you can say so – people. So, uh, so basically, if you don't take, uh, like suburbs where all the industry, uh, was located, you would end up with a lot of research institutions and uh people who were there were interested in, in culture, music theater, general, I don’t know, general knowledge, and that would be considered a cool thing to know about. �Claire: Can you expand a bit more on what like, so you mentioned there being a lot of culture, you mentioned theater and you mentioned art, and then you also mentioned industry being an important quality and it being a Soviet city. Could you expand a bit more on the culture aspect and then, like maybe later, talk about how it differentiates in like a Soviet city? Oleg: Well, Soviet city, I mean, it was typical for the time. Uh, the difference was that people there, uh, tend to pay more attention to culture, so as a kid, I was taken to theater and concerts regularly, even if I didn't want to (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) – Oleg: – uh, I didn't like Opera and [inaudible word] uh – the only thing I was, uh, so I was still not taken, not frequently, I resisted, but, uh, in the intermissions they would serve you like small sandwiches with caviar and uh like delicious sweets. So that was, (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) – Oleg: – I remember but I did like going to theater performances. It was both like for children and also like normal adult place– Claire: –Yeah. How often would you say that you went to these theater and opera performances? Oleg: Uh, I would say at least once a month, maybe more. Claire: That's cool. So, I was wondering if you could spend a bit more on what life was like growing up in the Soviet Union specifically. I know you mentioned a lot about like industry and that aspect of city life. Could you expand a bit more on that? Oleg: Well, industry, it was relatively high tech, uh, industry. So we lived, uh, actually across the street from a large plant called Svetlana and it was developing, uh, like, uh, optics, actually very high quality optics, which would be comparable to like, uh, [inaudible word] in Germany, and so they doing some space communication systems. And so my granddad worked in the Research Institute, uh, and they were also doing something, uh, related to, uh, communication, like regular electronic communication something, which I didn't understand and I suspect half of it was, uh, secret, so I don't know exactly what they were doing, but it was in some that direction. Claire: Interesting. So you mentioned, was that your father or your grandparents? Oleg: That was my maternal granddad. �Claire: Okay, cool. Um, how did your family and people around you discuss things, um, like the Soviet Union and things like that? And particularly, like, the fall of the Soviet Union, as well? Do you remember any like distinct things that shifted or anything? Oleg: Uh, well, I was too young, I just didn't know like, overheard what adults would say. Yeah. So my impression was that, uh, before the Perestroika1, 1985, uh, like late years for Brezhnev2, and then he was replaced by, uh, I forgot the name. There were like two old guys between him and Gorbachev3. One was KGB chief4 on drop off and there was some, also old but more like progressive, guy, but they were both very short lived. Anyway, so before that real fall of the Soviet Union, before Perestroika, my recollections were that people would tend to be, uh, moderately critical of the current, uh, political structure, uh, they could not imagine what else can be in place of the current structure, but they would criticize inefficiencies, uh, like, I don’t know, there were shortages of certain stuff in the stores, uh, there were inefficiencies of how schools are run, roads are bad, and so forth, so, and that the governance structure was that uh you have like, regular administrative uh government structure, like basically Mayor office and you have then some municipal, uh, entities, and they should take care of everyday stuff, garbage collection, what not. And then you had party, Communist Party, which would oversee that. So, in principle, you could go if you are not happy how your garbage is collected, then you would go to this municipal, uh, uh, government and say, I don't know, the garbage people don't do their job properly. So if it doesn't help, then you go to the party. And then the party would somehow apply pressure to make it, uh, better. So people could not imagine that it can be somehow different. And the criticism was mainly, uh, pointed at, you know, it's those small, everyday, uh, annoyances. And then, after Perestroika, it is, it was becoming quite rapidly worse and worse and people would complain that Perestroika led to collapse of a great state where people leave typically had no big problems at least, and now everything is just falling apart. And it was getting worse and worse. And the, uh, the worst time was like beginning of 90s. Claire: Okay. So, you said the beginning of 90s was when people were starting to complain that things were getting worse and worse – 1 During Perestroika, Mikhail Gorbachev attempted to reduce the influence of the Communist party in the Soviet Union by decentralizing power from communist leadership and re-directing these authorities towards local control. Although Gorbachev’s policies failed and deprived him of a political power base due to the Soviet Union’s corrupted economy, Perestroika led to increasing public revelations about the Soviet Party, inciting nationalist and independence movements inside and outside of the U.S.S.R. 2 Lenoid Brezhnev was the General Secretary of the Soviet Union from 1980-1982. Brezhnev’s leadership is remembered for improving the Soviet Union’s national standing while also stabilizing the position of his ruling party. 3 Mikhail Gorbachev was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1985-91, serving as president of Russia in 1990-91. Under his policies of Perestroika, his efforts led to the fall of communism in Russia. 4 The KGB was the Committee for State Security in the Soviet Union, responsible for foreign intelligence and domestic security agencies. �Oleg: – No, they would start after Perestroika. First of all, some of, some of them were conservative and they didn't like change. They would say what he's doing, uh, uh, he would, uh, destroy the relatively well functioning system, uh, why at all he needs to do that and so forth. Other, so, but most people would welcome that because they wanted, uh, uh, some kind of democracy. So they wanted that, uh, you know, in the newspapers in Soviet times, it was like a cryptic code. So you always had more or less the same, uh, headlines, same contents of the paper and the difference were on, in various small nuances and people will read that and they will try to deduce what's going on based on change of adjectives (pause) if it is like (pause) “brilliant” or “just talented.” (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) Interesting. So you mentioned a lot about how like, like, “they believed” or like “they said.” Um, how old were you during this time period? And like, how did you form this perception of like, what was going on around you? Or was this understanding more like things you picked up later on in life? Oleg: Uh, Well, I was, at the beginning of Perestroika, I was 12. Uh, and, um, my parents would invite relatives and friends from time to time, and they would, uh, sit, you know, at the table, eat and discuss stuff and I would go around and I had nothing else to do. Uh. Some of my uncles would play with me in, uh, table soccer or something like that. Table hockey. Uh, so I was like, in the same room. So we had only two rooms, one was my bedroom and my sister's bedroom, we were in the same room. Uh, and the other room was like a bigger room, it was parents room and living room together. So we didn't have a separate living room. So we've had just two rooms like you what would call it here, one bedroom. Claire: Okay. That's a great point to sort of segway into more like talking about your family. I was wondering if you could talk a bit more about your family. Um, what was your family dynamic like growing up? Oleg: (sigh) (pause) Well it was a normal family. (laughs) I had, uh, my both parents worked. Uh, My dad, well, my dad, uh, by education he was uh an architect (pause). Architect and like civil engineer or something like that. So he would work uh like normal, regular hours, nine to five. When I was very little he worked, uh, in relatively unusual place, he was, I don't know how it's called, he was like, uh, person responsible for all the engineering parts of big, one of the most famous Russian theaters, actually. So he wouldn't do any, you know, uh anything connected to the place, performances, but he will do all this, uh, technical support, like how you get smoke on the scene, and if they need something to fall down, how you do that safely, and so forth. So how everything functions. Uh, but later on he, but, still, I was too young, I don't remember that much. But later on, he would work from nine to five, he went to the, uh, like, it was called Institute – I �don't know you will not call it institute here – It was some organization which did, uh, architectural development for the whole city. So they would design buildings, they had architects, engineers, whatever, and they would do the whole cycle, like all the utilities you need for that building, they will calculate how much you need to work from where to take the water, electricity, they will design the building and so forth. My mom was, uh, school teacher and she worked more or less irregular hours, so she would go to school in the morning, and then she could stay on and off if she had some events there, like teacher parents meetings or she would come home early but then she would check homework. I had an older sister, five and a half years, who I fought a lot, but loved. Uh, so [inaudible phrase], I think we lived pretty happily. My grandparents lived in the same city and, uh, whenever I was sick, my parents would drive me, actually we took a taxi, maybe drove sometimes, I remember both ways actually. They would just send me to my grandparents and I would stay there for a week while I was sick. Maybe half the time, not every time maybe, but sometimes (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) Thank you for sharing that, um, well growing up did you have any close friends around you? What were they like? Oleg: I have a childhood friend whom I befriended, well uh, you know what dacha is? So in the 1960s, maybe late 50s, uh, government decided first that, uh, agricultural, uh, sector of Soviet economy was not doing well enough, not efficient enough. So they wanted first to get some extra source of uh food for the population. Plus, they wanted uh people to have something to do in their spare time, rather than you know, think about democracy (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) – Oleg: – but this is like later reconstruction, but the fact is that in starting from late 50s, maybe early 60s, they will, started giving away parcels of land to whoever wanted them and usually it was done through the organizations where people worked. So my granddad, uh, institute got a parcel of land, and distributed it among the people who were there. So my granddad, uh, got a piece of land and they built a house there, and it was like summer residence. So, especially in the beginning, it was prohibited to build like two stories building, it should be only one story, and they tried to discourage people from staying, uh, like in the winter months, so it was supposed to be only like from spring to the fall, and, uh, later it became looser enforced, uh, but, uh, so we had like a small house and we would come there every summer. And I, uh, I found a friend, uh, when I was, I don't know, five, six years old. So we would meet every summer we would spend there two three months, like from from the early till the night, uh, and at that time, people didn't, uh, try to control the whereabouts of their children as much as they do now, so the only thing I needed was to show up a dinner (laughs) say Mom, I'm still alive (laughs) Give me some food. Sometimes we will do even like eat together, so I will not come home. I will eat at my friend's �house. Uh, so we will just spend two months relatively freely, so that was the best time of my whole year at that time. Claire: That sounds really nice. How did you, like your relationships with family and also friendships, change as you began to like grow up into your young adult years? Oleg: (pause) I don’t know. Claire: You don’t know? Oleg: Nothing changed. Claire: Okay. Um, so, at what age did you first decide to immigrate to the United States? Oleg: Let's see. (pause) 36, I guess. Claire: 36? Oleg: Yes. Claire: Okay, um, so what did you like, what did you do after like you graduated high school and everything like before you decided to move to the United States? Oleg: Well, since, as I told you, we lived in a, uh, part of the city which was like highly educated, It was unthinkable not to go to university. So the only question was, uh, which one? And, uh, at that time, you could not apply to different universities. You should pick one. Submit your documents there, then, uh, you should hold exams, and then you are either admitted or not. So if you're not, then it's kind of catastrophe. Because, uh, first of all, it's unthinkable not to go to school and second, uh, it happens right after school and then, uh, then if you are not at the university, then you are conscript so you automatically go to the army, which nobody wanted. Claire: So to clarify, if you didn't get into university you’d automatically – Oleg: – then you're 18 years old, and uh, (pause) so, uh, the only reason for you not to be drafted, was to be at the university or work for some, uh, like military establishment. So if you didn't get into university then you may want it doesn't matter. Okay. So you are 18 years old. And this is full, and you're drafted. Claire: Okay. So what did you decide to study? �Oleg: Well, I wanted to study physics all my life. Claire: Why physics? Oleg: Because I wanted to know how things work. My, I, think it's influence of my granddad, uh, who would read with me, uh, like science, popular books about mathematics and physics. And they were quite entertaining. And, uh, I like them. Uh, and I don't know, since age five, I remember that I wanted to be a physicist, uh, that's because between our house and my grandparents house there was a bus route, uh, number 38, I still remember, and the, the endpoint uh of this route was Youth institute, which I later realized it was actually only like, off campus location, not main campus, but still on this, uh, tablet where you have this uh route number, one of the endpoints was this Youth Institute. And I remember I was five years old, I was going home from my grandparents, I’d remember this plate and I told my uh, that, I don't remember who was there, and I said, when I grew up, I will work in this Youth Institute and turned out I did (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) So what is that Institute? Like, what do you, what did you do? What did they do? Oleg: It is a part of Russian Academy of Sciences. And it does research. Uh, nowadays, it is mostly solid state and like semiconductor physics. Claire: So why do you think, like, that sign, like spoke to you at age five? Oleg: I don't know. (Pause) Well, I remember I asked what it is they told me, this is a good known, known, well known physical institution. And I said okay, I will work there. Claire: So kind of jumping forward a little bit. I'd like to transition to discuss more about your first immigration to the United States. You said you were 36, um – Oleg: – No. I did not immigrate to the United States. I was a postdoc. Claire: Postdoc? Oleg: Yeah, so I, uh, so I finished, uh high school. I went to, uh, university. Uh, and it's like here when you are in high school years, you already thinking about what university you would choose. Here you have some flexibility, there you are in a much more restricted situation. So you have to think even harder. So finally, we found a school, which had, uh, deep, uh, like deeper physics curriculum and it was connected to electrotechnical university. And (pause) I, I had to change schools, so I had to take a bus to get to the school, it wasn't, so, uh, in Russia, there are �no school buses. So you just, but there are more schools than here. They're smaller, but there are, there are more of them. Claire: Okay. Oleg: So you would just, uh, usually you have to walk to school it's I don't know two blocks three blocks away, at most. But I switched the school and I had to take bus and that school had this physics program and they had their graduates like better prepared and they had connections to that, uh, Institute. And then (pause), when I was in that school, I found out that, uh, at that university where I was going to live. That I actually don't remember clearly, maybe it was I knew about this, but I think it was, maybe I was just lucky. So when, at that school, and when we started going to that university like for after hours classes and some extra curriculum activities, I found out that there is one group, uh, (pause) which is based at this Youth Institute, so which is like attached to that Youth Institute. So it was like, uh, department which was organized by, at the time, not but now he's a Nobel Prize winner, Zhores Alferov who was head of the department there and since he was young scientist, he wanted to raise students to become scientists from like very early stage. So he organized this department at that university, electrotechnical university, and they will try to get the most, uh, uh, like promising students and they would, and who want to be scientists, and they will educate them at that department. So I learned that there is such a department And I, uh, uh, I signed up and I was chosen, uh, for that department and then we would start like uhh dividing our time between the regular university and this Youth Institute. So we would have regular classes like philosophy, history, P.E., whatever at the main university but all our, uh, major related classes were at the youth institute. Claire: Okay. Oleg: So we would spend – I don't know – three day there and two days at the University. Claire: Okay. Oleg: So I started working at the Youth Institute, like trying to do research since I was like a third year student, maybe even before that. Yeah, well, we started going there like from our first year, but first three years, but first I remember, so my friends at the University he had, his uncle, was quite famous physicist who created u, he was experimentalist, he created uh uh um (pause) scientific waves for uh transient industry in soviet union,you know, peinjunctions, LED, you know, led (pause) LED lights, pointed, you know whatever you have in city, players, everywhere, whatever you see in red spot now it can be blue or green. So, this is radiational in your remote control. This is, uh, radiation emitted when electrons go through, uh, the connection of two different materials to uh, different semiconductors so when they go through that, uh, junction they make light. It can be red light, it can be infrared light, your remote, uh, but uh, that �guy he created, uh, this, uh like he was, uh, scientific advisor when, uh, in Soviet Union they started semiconductor industry. So he put us, uh, uh, in a lab from our first year, but the only tasks we were trusted to was doing securital aux. I remember it was our project, it was a two story lab, big lab, and they wanted to open the door, uh, not going down but, uh, so we did the wiring and all the stuff, but since third year we started doing more, uh, science, like real science. And, uh, we were, uh, like, immersed into these activities. So I knew all the scientists in our department and after I graduated from the university, I went to what you would call a Ph. D program. And at that time I worked, uh, uh, I mean like a normal scientist already. And, uh, after you do your Ph. D, you, uh, it's normal to do a postdoc. So since I was working in a group there, uh, and we had collaborators all over the world, uh, my Russian boss knew a guy from Pittsburgh who worked in the similar, like, complementary direction. So he was working in, uh, studying a phenomenon called Bremsstrahlung.5 It's a radiation emitted by, uh, any charged particles when they bend their trajectory. And, uh, in Soviet Union, there was a guy who discovered that this standard radiation can be complemented by another type of radiation which is also branch strong, but the origin of this, not the accelerating particles, but the atoms in, uh, which create the field in which those, uh, particles travel. So that was like complimentary things about the same basically physical phenomenon, but taking them from different ends, like different subjects in the same, uh, picture. So they sent me to Pittsburgh as a postdoc, to like, bridge the gap, to try to build something which would be like unifying concept, uh, unifying formalism describing this, so I was going there for one year and then it was not like, I wanted to immigrate. Claire: Yeah. It was like a temporary – Oleg: – yeah, it was like a postdoc position. Claire: Did you have like uh, a temporary work status to gain permission to live in the United States or like – Oleg: – uh – Claire: – do you remember – Oleg: – the first time we went there, I was on J-1 Visa6, which is a scientific exchange. Uh, in principle, it requires you to return to your home country and spend at least two years there. Claire: Okay. So to clarify, it's like one year in Pittsburgh and then you go back to, for two years. 5 Bremsstrahlung is electromagnetic radiation that occurs when a charged particle decelerates due to deflection by another charged particle. During this process, the moving particle loses kinetic energy, which is converted into radiation. 6 J-1 exchange visitor visa for educational and cultural exchange programs that are designated by the Department of State, Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. �Oleg: Uh, it's supposed to work that way. It, it, there are loopholes, and I know people who somehow waived this J-1 one requirement, but on the other hand, where I work now there is a guy, uh, Leonardo. He had to return to his home country and spend their two years, even though, like scientific director of our institution wrote to USCIS7 asking this to be waived, but still didn't work. Claire: So, just to continue on with that timeline, so you went to Pittsburgh – Oleg: – so we went to Pittsburgh in 2000. Uh, originally, it was for one year and we started working, and my scientific supervisor was, uh, relatively happy with me. So he actually offered me to, uh, switch my position from this visiting, whatever it is called fellow something. And I said no, we want to go home. We agreed. Uh, but he couldn't find any suitable candidate to replace me. So we had to stay there longer. So instead of one year, we spent, stayed there, year and a half, maybe. Claire: Year and a half. Okay. Were you, um, like, how did you feel about this movement process? Like did you want to go back to Russia or do you want to stay in the United States? Like, how did you feel at the time about, like these moves and everything? Oleg: Uh, well, I was excited to, to work in a different country in different environment in different culture, because I only knew Soviet research culture. And it was very interesting to see how people work, uh, in the United States. Claire: What are some of the differences you noticed? Right away and then also like reflecting on your work now? Oleg: Uh, here people are more polite. So, they would, even if they see that, you are, you are completely wrong. And, uh, whatever you are doing is complete bullshit. They will not tell you that. Uh, they will just keep silent, they will say okay, and uh, yeah, they will not even try it later on to approach you well, some of them who would but, uh, only if they like know you. If it is a complete stranger and he tells me something wrong, I wouldn't argue. I would just keep, I would say to myself, forget about it, it's like, wasting two hours for this seminar. In Russia is much more direct and aggressive, so they would start arguing with the speaker. And sometimes it's even counterproductive. For, I don't know if a speaker devoted one month saying that this assumption and that assumption, uh, hold, and then the person who comes to a seminar listens to that first time, he starts arguing that those assumptions don't hold. And, uh, you know, the person said, you know, I studied this and I know this, (laughs), it's true. Uh, but, so in a sense, it is more, 7 USCIS is the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services. This is a government organization that oversees aspects of immigration related to obtaining citizenship and VISA status. �uh, (pause), it is more direct interaction in Russia than here. On the other hand, uh, (pause) on the other hand, people here (pause) probably, uh (pause), eh, so, on average, so average person here would (pause) spend more (pause) time working. Uh, (pause) no, so, you know, it's not, you know, apple to apple comparisons.Where I worked with there was like a place for fanatics. So people there would come to work with I don't know, with, uh, fire in their eyes, and they want to do that and they will. I myself, like slept in the office on put together chairs because I didn't want to spend time going home even though I lived like 15 minutes away. Uh, so those people would work harder than the average Western scientist, but there are people who would come like, two days a week for, I don't know, for several hours, just to you know, be around the scene and they will leave and they will not care about anything. Claire: Hm. Interesting. Oleg: But I don't think it's comparable. It's different time, different place. Different culture. Claire: Yeah, definitely. Could you talk a bit more about like, the culture of the United States that surprised you outside of your work environment. Like is there anything, I know it's not like super comparable, it's very different, but any like shocks or surprises? [Section of transcript cut out as someone came into the room to try to use the space] Oleg: Uh, I’m trying to recall, so you interested in that moment, what I felt then? Claire: Yeah, yeah. Oleg: Well, so we lived in Pittsburgh, and it was, uh, so University of Pittsburgh, it's like in the middle of the city. It is like a university area, and there are two universities: Pittsburgh University and Carnegie Mellon. They're very close. Uh, but still, it is a city. It's not like UMD here, where you have your own campus, and nobody else here. So there it was mixed. So it was kind of city but with a lot of students and, uh, teachers and researchers. And I think what struck me at that time is– it was, um (pause) so we had a lot of like (pause), uh a lot of people (pause) feeling not free, but (pause) like relaxing, like chilling out. So people would go into restaurants; we would go to a restaurant. We had group meetings at a restaurant every week. Uh, students would like sit on the grass, uh in the park. There was like a botanical garden and, uh, we saw a lot of students there like, some of them studying, probably like here, now. Claire: Yeah, very similar. Oleg: Yeah. And it was not typical at all for us. So, uh, in Russia, they were in Soviet Union. Well, it was Russia already, but still it was like, Soviet based, uh, reality. So people would not go �to restaurants that often. Uh, if they study they would study at home or in the library (pause). If you want to party with party at home, if you want to play with your friends, you would go, you wouldn't, you wouldn't do that just on campus. So you could see people like sitting on the benches and doing nothing but they will just wait till the next, uh, uh, we call it pairs. So we had like a 1.5, two 45 minutes joined, lessons, like 45 minutes, 5 break, and then 45, and then sometimes the lecture will not even make the break. And we had like them, uh, sequential, so we will have three or four such pairs and very rarely you would have like an empty pair. Then you would like, you would have one hour and 45 minutes free and then you will probably go to, we also had like a botanical garden across the street. But it wasn't typical and I would, I wouldn't go there, I would find some quiet place and do something. Yeah, so here I felt it's more like, like relaxed. Maybe. Claire: Did you know English prior to coming here or did you learn it when you came here? ` Oleg: (pause) Well, technically, I knew English, but, uh, I could not speak. Well, I could say something. But I could not understand people at all. So whatever they were saying, it was complete music to me. I couldn't, uh, figure out where one word ends and the next one starts. So it was like continuous (pause) because we didn't just have, so all our English studies, it was, uh, more or less theoretical. So we never watched movies, uh, in school, we never talk to real people, so it was only textbooks and we will read so I, I had relatively, (pause) relatively high level, so I could build more or less complicated phrases, sentences, but, uh, understanding was almost zero. Claire: Did that ever influence like your work aspect? Like when you first came here for your postdoc or like anything about navigating the city or anything like that? Oleg: Yeah, of course. Uh, sometimes, so my advisor was, he is a quite generous and kind man and he tried to help us. So he put us in his house. Claire: Oh, that’s nice. Oleg: He would, uh, he would do group meetings at a restaurant and he would pay for that. Uh, and he tried to give us tips on what to see, how to get there. Uh, but I remember many times when he would advise us to do something. And then, uh, when we started doing that, we realized that actually it's not like he, we thought told us and then it turned out that we just misunderstood him. Claire: Hm. That's interesting. How fast were you able to pick up the language then? Like, when do you feel like you were fully, like, able to learn how to understand people better? �Oleg: I still don't understand people sometimes. I cannot understand, uh, any songs which I hear on the radio. I can pick up a few words here and there, but, and then in American, or I don’t know, English music is completely different from Russian. So here you have very, well, I don't know about rap and such stuff, but even regular songs like pop music, they have very complicated sentences with no rhymes and, uh, so there are some, but it is very hard to do that. So Russian music is much simpler. So you have, uh, all your, you have rhymes, certainly. And then all your words would fit into music very, very easily. So they complement each other much better. It's much simpler. Claire: That makes sense. Oleg: So I still don't understand and when southern people talk I also understand 30% (laughs). Claire: (laughs) that’s fair. Um, I was wondering if you could, like extending the timeline a little bit more so, you came here for postdoc and then you went back to Russia after like a year and a half – Oleg: – Mhm – Claire: – when did you come back here again? Oleg: Ah. Yeah. So we went, (pause) actually, it was my wife who wanted to return, so for her there was no question that we coming back because she's very attached to her family. And I was more flexible. I didn't care much. I didn't like, really wanted to stay. Claire: She wanted to return to Russia? Oleg: She wanted to return to Russia, and I was more or less ambivalent and I would say we can stay here, we can go home. Don't care much. Uh, so we returned home and then, uh, (pause) I returned to my work and, uh, we had a group of people, uh, and we were more or less friends. And once I came, a guy at work told me, you know that (pause) so (pause) well here you have to apply for grants. Uh, so we had like stable salary, but if you want to go to a conference, if you want to buy some extra equipment or even if you want to increase your salary, you have to apply for grants. Uh, so it was like I don't know, I arrived like one week ago and I'm in our office and we shared an office. Uh, there were like three of us. Uh, and he told me, you know that, uh, now it's close to deadline for grant application for NSF NATO award and it's only two pages and, uh, basically they only look at your achievements and recommendations. So you don't have to go into details about your scientific program or project you're gonna work. So it was, uh, in bureaucratic terms, it was quite easy. So you have to describe your achievements, people you want to work with, and your like, the general idea of your project. And, uh, that’s it, like two �pages maybe. And he said, Why don't you apply for that? And since I just came, and I said why? And he said they will give you money and then the chances are very, very little, very small, because they give out only 20 awards per year for all, uh, fields. It's like science and arts and everything. But he said, uh, you have to play many stage games so you’ll win in one of them. So he said just do two pages, ask your professor Pratt to write your recommendation letter. And I did that and I did not expect that I would get it. So it wasn't like planned. Yeah, I didn't think I would get– the chances were, uh, almost zero– but somehow I got this grant and then, uh, once I get it, of course, why not use it? Yeah. So it took us, uh, so we came back in 2001. (pause) I think it’s like, took us a year for this project to be approved, and then all this bureaucracy stuff. So I think we came back to the US after one year, like in the late 2002. Claire: Okay. Where did you move to in the U.S.? Did you go back to Pittsburgh or somewhere else? Oleg: Yes. So, since it was– the project– a continuation of what I was doing in Pittsburgh, and Professor Pratt wrote me a recommendation letter and some of his friends. So it was, of course like, natural to go there. Claire: Yeah. Makes sense. Um, how did you feel about moving back to the United States? Oleg: Uh, I did like the idea. So, uh, so while we were here for the first time, as I mentioned, Professor Pratt, was very generous and kind and he helped us a lot and he would organize for us all sorts of things that we enjoyed staying here. So, for example, if we had a conference, he would arrange that we would rent a car, and then we would drive, and the conference could be in Texas for example. So we will drive, uh, in that car from here, well from Pittsburgh, to Texas or to Colorado or whatever. And, uh, (pause) he will say don't rush. Take your time drive carefully. You'll look at whatever you find on the way and then uh, when, when we wanted to travel, like we bought an old car and he would let me go like for one weekend. We would drive to Florida. So, I knew that can get a lot of interest and stuff. And I knew the guy and I liked him. I still like him a lot. So I was – Claire: – You were excited? – Oleg: – Yes. Claire: That's cool. Um, how long were you in Pittsburgh for this grant project? Oleg: Uh, again, one year and a half. Claire: About a year and a half. What did you decide to do after that? �Oleg: Uh, at that time, well, we decided to return to Russia. Uh, at that time, uh, my son was born, uh, and actually, so my project was for one year, so I got decent money, $42,600. It was grant for everything. So that was my salary. And it was, so my salary was like $30,000 and then I had $12,000 for conferences and stuff. And that was much more than I had when I was a postdoc. So when I was a postdoc, uh, so they, at the University of Pittsburgh, they had some, uh, fixed stipends. I don't know how they call it, (pause), uh, like fellowships, and it was, I don't know, like $10,000 a year. And I, when I, just, uh, when we were discussing it before we went, I asked some of my friends who, so my, uh, few of my, uh, school friends emigrated and I asked them, so what do you think, can we live off 10,000? And they say, Absolutely not. So anyway, I asked them to increase and they, I think the best they could do was $12,000 a year. And there were two of us. And it was quite hard. So we, had I remember, we were buying this bread for 67 cents in giant, which is like was the cheapest one and you could, you know, press it into a small bowl. And we would eat, uh, ground meat, like with pasta all day long, because it was the cheapest. Uh, but still, and then I will get more money and it was for one year. Uh, but then, my son was born and he was very young. (pause) So he was born in November. Yeah. So, uh, he was born in November. So, he basically was born when my grant, uh, expired. Yeah. So we asked for an extension, and, uh, the NSF, or NATO, probably it was NSF, so they said you can extend but we will not give you more money. So, uh, my professor had to come up with some, uh, financing. But we still are grateful to him [the professor] because he [the son] was very, uh, young. And we didn't want to travel with our newborn child. So we stayed till May 2004Claire: – Okay – Oleg: – No. Four, yes. Claire: And then you went to Russia. Oleg: So we went back to Russia. Claire: Okay. How long were you in Russia then? Oleg: Uh, I personally was in Russia for (pause) four months? It was 2000, it was 2004. So we came in, like in May, (pause), uh, and I got sick, and I got into, uh, these hospitals specialized in infectious diseases. And they couldn't figure out what with me and I stayed there for three weeks or so. Uh, and then I returned to work and I didn't like it a bit. Not, not the work but like – Claire: – the environment? �Oleg: Yeah, so I got used to American style of life. And when I came back, I didn't like all these Russian realities. Uh, ao I wasn't quite happy. And then in, uh, August 2004, uh, head of my Russian group, so he was collaborating with many people, I mean, our group, so we had like joint, uh, research projects. So one of the research directions was connected to Pittsburgh, but the other one was connected with, uh, research of, uh, Walter Greiner8, and he's actually very famous nuclear physicist who predicted, uh, super heavy nuclear to be stable. So all this, uh, acceleration experiments, where people collide, uh, heavy nuclei, what they try to achieve, they want to check if his prediction. So, you, is correct. So what you have, so our Mendeleev table, you have, uh, elements from one hydrogen and then you go to, I don't know, 90s, where you have very heavy elements and they become unstable. So when you have uranium, plutonium, they are radioactive and they spontaneously decay. So you cannot have them, uh, for a long time. So they have, their not nuclear are not stable. And if you go to even higher the decay even faster. So if your uranium can, depending on the isotope, uh, some of them stable, but some of them are not. If you go to higher, you cannot find anything. So people achieved, look at 107, highest charge of the nucleus, but it was very short lived when they collide in the in the, uh, collider particles, if you go to higher, so what he predicted that, then you can reach an island of stability. So if you go to like 130, then those, uh, elements will be stable. So he was quite famous because of this work. And he was influential enough to, uh, start a new institute. So he worked at Goethe University in Frankfurt, uh, and uh, he wanted to start a new institution, which would be like partially affiliated with University of Frankfurt, but partially independent. And he joined forces with another guy, who I don't know, he, I don't even remember his name. He's like neuro, neurosurgeon and neuroscientist, something with the brains. So they study how brains work and our guy was nuclear physicist. So those two guys, uh, they both like were famous. And they wanted to create like, Interdisciplinary Research Center. And they started what they call Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies. And they were like recruiting people for that institution. And since our group collaborated with Walter Greiner, he invited my, uh, group leader Andrei Soloviev, to be research fellow, which is basically like full professor there. And he said, uh, suggest me a couple of like low ranking people who we put in right. So, uh, Andre called me– he was in Frankfurt at the time– he called me and said, we are doing this, would you like to join us? Uh, and I said Yes. And it was like very, very early stages. So, there was no even director. They were just like founding fathers, but no administrative stuff. So she said, you can come, uh if you are interested. So I went to Frankfurt and it was like, end of August to beginning of September 2004. So I spent like four months in Russia. Claire: Okay. How long did you stay in Frankfurt after that, and what type of work were you doing there? Because it was such an institution. 8 Walter Greiner was a German theoretical physicist, who spent time researching atomic physics, nuclear physics, and elementary particle physics; he studied physics at the University of Frankfurt and became an assistant professor at the University of Maryland from 1962 to 1964. �Oleg: Uh, well there we actually continued what would they have started working on while I'm on while I was in the U.S., so they started doing cluster research, okay. So a cluster is a collection of several atoms, but it is not a molecule, so you can have, I don’t know, an alcohol molecule which you might be aware of like CT, C2H5OH.9 So this is like chemical molecule where your atoms are bound by chemical bonds. Clusters, it's when you have, uh, a collection of atoms that may be bigger than molecules, smaller than molecules, but they are not, uh, chemical molecules in traditional sense, you can have I don't know 10 sodium atoms together. So it is not a molecule. It's just like a small clump of matter. And at that time, it was relatively fashionable direction, people tried to understand how you go from, uh, atoms to solids to bulk properties, atoms and bulk properties, even if the same element if you if you have sodium, sodium atom, or sodium two, which is like natural molecule, chemical molecule, uh, have completely different, not completely but quite different, uh, properties and bulk sodium, uh, and they wanted to see what goes in between and at that time, technology, uh, developed, so that people were able to create such clumps of matter. So we were, and they started doing that, and when I came back from the U.S., I like I joined the group, and I started doing that and we continue doing that in Frankfurt. Claire: How did you like Germany? What did you think of it? Oleg: I loved Germany. Claire: You loved Germany? Oleg: Yes. I like that they have such a perfect order in everything. Claire: Mhm. What do you mean by that? Oleg: Everything, I mean, public transportation, all buses, uh, spotless. They go by minute. They, uh, the streets are cleaned. People are organized. If they tell you 2pm, it is 2pm. Uh, in the offices, they, I mean, they keep their stuff organized. I mean, it's (pause) so everything is very well oiled and organized. And, uh, aesthetically, it's also beautiful and I, it’s very old and I like history. So I liked it very much. Claire: Yeah, that's cool. Did your, um, wife and kid come with you as well when he went to Germany? Oleg: Uh, not initially. So I went alone, just to see what’s, what’s going on. If it is indeed, will be finally implemented.We did not have, so the building was still under construction. So we worked in the university. And at some point we had to move, uh, so it was not clear what's going on. And 9 C2H5OH is the compound for Ethanol, which is a volatile, flammable, colorless liquid. �we just came from the U.S. My son was very young. So it was not, uh, an option for us to go three of us. Claire: Yeah. When did they end up moving to Germany with you? Oleg: I think, so I went like August to September. Then I came back for the New Years. (pause) And I think then I returned, to Frankfurt, and then I came back for them. So I think it was like March 2005. Claire: Okay. That makes sense. Um, How did, like, what was it like moving a family to Germany, now? Like now that you have a kid. Oled: (pause) Uh (pause) I don't remember any particular difficulties. Uh, my wife was very easygoing. She does not collect stuff. She's not attached to stuff and she’s uh, she can do with what she have, what she has. So it wasn't a problem. I rented an apartment, uh, and now I don't remember about furniture. (pause) Uh, we had, yeah, I got, I think from IKEA, one bed. We had one small table. One chair. And then I think that’s it. Yeah, the second room was completely empty. Claire: Um, How long were you in Germany? Oleg: Until end of 2007. Claire: Okay. Where did you go after that? Oleg: We went directly to the U.S. Claire: Okay. And this was when you moved to Rockville? Oleg: Mhm. Claire: Why did you decide to move to rockville? Oleg: Because (pause) at that time (pause) by the end of 2006, sometime after a couple of years in Germany, we understood that (pause) it is very difficult to assimilate. So it's all good. Everything's fine, but you are an outsider, and uh you’re gonna stay an outsider. There is no way you will be accepted into that culture. German culture. Yes. So that was one reason so, if, but it wasn't, like a really urgent reason.The other reason was that my son was growing up. And we started thinking where we want him to grow up. And we had basically three options. We could go back to Russia and raise him as a standard Russian kid. We could raise him in Germany, �because I had basically job, uh, stability and it was developing well so there was no, uh, reason for us to be afraid that we would need to find something else in Germany, so I would work there 10 more years and should not be a problem. Uh, so that was the second option. And the third option was to go back to the U.S. and uh, since he was born in the U.S., so he is a citizen. So the third option was to raise him as a U.S. kid. Since he already is a citizen, so why not? And we decided which country and culture would be better for him. (pause) And since we felt, in Germany, that we will not be assimilated. And, uh, (pause) yeah, he was like closing to the school age and he didn't speak German and so we decided that it is either Russia or U.S. and we chose U.S. Claire: Why did you prefer the U.S. over Russia? Oleg: We felt that, I felt that, there he will have more opportunities and the quality of life is certainly higher. So I saw that if we can do that we should at least try. Claire: Was your wife, like, in support of that decision? Or was she when you worked with her? Oleg: Uh, she was ambivalent. So she wanted to go back to be with the family. Uh, on the other hand, she saw that, indeed maybe, uh, so, I think I pushed for the more – Claire: – to go to the U.S.? Oleg: Yeah, so I was telling her, let's go if I can find job in the U.S.. Let's go there for a few years. Uh, he will learn English, he wouldn't be a native speaker. Uh, he will grow up a little. Maybe we will get green cards and then we will have freedom to move between the countries as we wish. And then we decide later, do we want to stay in the U.S. or go back to Russia? Claire: Okay, that makes sense. And you had your second son in Germany, right? Oleg: Right. Claire: Okay. So how was his citizen status, like played into this? Did he have Russian citizenship or – Oleg: – he had Russian citizenship, he did not have German citizenship. Claire: Okay, so Germany doesn't have birthright citizenship? Oleg: No, they don't. And it would require many years for him to acquire German citizenship. �Claire: Okay, interesting. Um, so how did you find a job in the United States that would like lead you to? Oleg: Ah, I'm just a very lucky person. (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) – Oleg: Completely randomly. I mean, uh, I have a group mate, uh, my one of, maybe my best friend, we were in, so in Russia, you don't do as you do here, everybody takes their own class and then everybody takes different classes, so we had the concept of groups, where you have a certain number of people, usually like 20, and then they would go together to everything. Claire: Yeah. Oleg: (pause) I don't even think we had any subjects for choice. So we couldn't choose anything I think. So it was pre programmed. Claire: Yeah. Oleg: So we would like see the same people six, eight hours a day for five years. Claire: Yeah. Oleg: So this girl, uh, she started, uh, studying in another university and then she transferred to us and she got into our group and we just befriended, uh, she was (pause) no, yeah, so she came in this in the second year. So she, uh (pause), she got married and then she divorced, and then she moved to the U.S. not even finishing up University in Russia. Of course, her mom works here. She works at NIST, or she worked at NIST, I don't know where she works now. Uh, so she, she went to UMD I think. Claire: Okay. Oleg: (pause) and she, they lived here, in, uh, in Bethesda, near Montgomery Mall. So I just called her and I said, Masha, do you know any opportunities somewhere in the US? Uh, and I actually was thinking about even changing my career into, uh, into IT. Cause, uh, so, it was, everything was fine at work. But it was very, uh, intense. Yeah. So it was very competitive, uh, so we have had this, our group leader who like he was like, full professor, and I was like, uh, one step below him. And then we got, I don't know, seven, uh, graduate student and like, four postdocs, and we had visiting scientists and, uh, it was very hard, I worked a lot, cause, so, I had to help him with all these grant proposals, uh, all this, like, social net, not social, like scientific �networkings, so I had to prepare a draft for him to send letters to different scientists. Uh, and I would be involved in organizing like, seminars and conferences. So we invited people from all over the Europe and from the US, so he wanted to be on the map. So he wanted to have a lot of communications with other groups abroad, so everybody knows him, he is like in the network. So we had to organize a lot of events. Uh, so I was doing this more or less administrative stuff. But on the other hand, I had to, uh, oversee all our students and do work myself. And when you oversee work with student, you have to not just see what he or she is doing, you sometimes need to help or even do it yourself. So I was doing like three jobs for myself for students and this and it was very hard. Uh, so I even had doubts if I wanted to continue in science, and I was like playing with this idea of why not go to IT field where money is better and work is simpler. Yeah. So my friend, Masha told me, so she has, uh, she has a friend who was married to a guy who works who worked where I work now. And, uh, she said, let me ask Tatiana, maybe Lesha may help you. So this guy, send me coordinates of this person who hires, uh, uh, uh actually, IT guys so this is mostly IT. So, we, uh, our institution mostly maintains updates and whatever, various medical databases, so they need a lot of programmers. Claire: Yeah. Oleg: So he's, she, so that guy who worked there, send me the, uh, coordinates of that guy who is overseeing, who was overseeing, hiring. And he said we hire all the time, just email him and ask if you have anything. So I emailed him and he responded to me and he send me like a questionnaire like with different programming tasks. And since I'm not an educated coder, so I did, wrote a lot of codes but scientific codes, so I was mainly interested in efficiency in terms of the, uh, how you calculate, say integrals numerically without losing precision and fast, and maybe you can come up with another method where you don't have to do it at all, maybe you can approximate it somehow. So I was coding, but it was a completely different type of coding. So she sent me this questionnaire very with coding questions like, I don't know how better memory is allocated in code A or code B, and why. (pause) So I tried to reply and, uh, I sent it. I now understand that I was completely below level, whatever, (laughs) possibly even couldn't even hope for that. But since I submitted my application, the questionnaire was probably unsatisfactory. He didn't tell me of course, the guy. But my resume caught the eye of my current principal investigator who is a physicist by education. And we are probably the only one group doing physics at that place. And he was looking for people with exactly my qualifications, so he wanted, um, quantum calculations, quantum mechanics, and uh, since it was like, submitted in and then it was like, standard procedure when they distributed, he saw my resume and he, uh, called me, we did, uh, phone interview. Then he invited me to come here for in-person interview, and then we moved. Claire: Thank you for sharing that. Um, so you haven't gone back since, like you stayed since you moved to rockville, here? �Oleg: Yeah, so we went directly from Frankfurt to Rockville. Claire: Okay, cool. Um, how was, so you mentioned that a simulation in Germany was, like, harder. Um, would you say that it's easier in the United States or like, how were you able to form a community here? Oleg: Well, it's not harder in Germany than in the United States. It all depends on the, uh, on your group. On your, uh, professor or principal investigator, yeah. So there in Germany we were trying to establish a name. So we will completely over the grid and we tried to emerge as an advanced group doing advanced stuff. And to do that you have to work very hard. Yeah. Uh, here it is more relaxed. It is government and you have job security. Uh, and there is no point in, uh, you know trying to organize a conference, because first it is the government it is not possible to do basically, resolve the bureaucracy. (laughs) Second, there is no point, if you need to talk to your colleagues, you can go to some conference and talk to them there so you don't have to push for visibility. Claire: Okay, that makes sense. How was it able, like socially, to make friends here, like were you able to form communities in any way? Oleg: (Pause) Well, here it was relatively easy. Uh, (pause) So say in Pittsburgh, we befriended a Secretary at the Department who knew our professor for a very long time, she was his personal secretary for a while. Uh, so she was invited to all our group events, so we befriended her and one guy in the group. And that was basically it. Uh, we met few Russians in Pittsburgh, while I was working too much and there was basically no time. In Frankfort, it was very similar. I actually again befriended the Secretary of the Department. (laughs) But just because, uh, I was alone, uh, and again, I was, especially first months. Yeah. And she was a German lady she was like 50 years old. And she was very punctual. And she would show up at work, like 6:55 in the morning, and I had nothing else to do and I wanted to do some science, so I would come to work also like around seven, and we would, uh, intersect like near coffee machine. And, uh, she would help me with Germany, like with sketching around and knowing what to do, where to buy things, and that developed into a friendship. But again, no locals. Yeah, but when we moved to Frank–, to Rockville here, we had two kids, and we went to all these, you know, kids' places like the playground. I don't know, like gyms. And then you have a lot of parents. And while kids are playing you stay with parents and you're forced to communicate. So this way, we did acquire some friends, and we could even pick and choose which ones we wanted. (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) That makes sense. I guess, thinking now on like, how long you've lived in Rockville? Do you have any like, thoughts on living so close to DC or anything or like, how like, that experience is? I guess. �Oleg: That's I don't understand what – Claire: – (laughs) I’m just gonna skip that question that’s not making any sense. Um, do you have any plans for the future regarding where you live? Do you think you'll stay here? Could you ever see yourself moving back to Russia or anywhere else? Oleg: (pause) Probably not, probably not. So we got settled in here, uh, so probably will just stay here. Claire: Yeah, that makes sense. Um, I think that kind of concludes everything. I don't want to keep you too long. Um, thank you so much for allowing me to interview you today. Is there anything else you would like to share with me about your story or experience? – Oleg: – No, If you have any questions which you think like later on, you realize that it would have been nice, nice to ask him, you still can do that. Claire: Okay, thank you so much. Oleg: No problem. � https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/eb2a48c683258cf5545caa74f1a8c010.mp3?Expires=1781740800&Signature=Al2qAALwcEnzxLHe4Mw2uuk%7EUh4DP8E2FbN7K4DYY7XCnppL1OL1aujrmoMD8SRq98jEzqwmSJfzJ7-LeUI6JDwYBuBmMsHq7QODx3xAgrNmBtjPbkSDsnBpPFbsg8C%7ES3jIw2Xqj5wMq6x2um5xGxqffYWzR8NWpFXY%7E-PA2tOiEbXBTTKQZIDy6XBhuh3GDepVdXF-ueN5nbYml0dSUV20vgJGCsWoHjm3AMBDZA-4XgIiauxg-vOTjgcDFoFS7FBNLubH0TKKXHTufdB619BBkPm49CHlQlVqZPcvOnujLaJk2xshQfV0WwXpOlZVz4Qe8w-mh%7EKTaof3lkdqGw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 80b7fa32bbb7eaf1dfb327ce8c898deb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Claire O’Donnell Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Oleg Obolensky Location The location of the interview Rockville, Montgomery Country, Maryland, United States Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Oleg Obolensky Description An account of the resource This interview between Claire O’Donnell and Oleg Obolensky discusses Oleg’s journey from Russia to the United States in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to complete postdoc research for one year on a J-1 visa. After he returned back to Russia, Oleg then traveled back to Pittsburgh to continue his research with an NSF NATO funded grant opportunity. In Pittsburgh, Oleg had his first son; then, he returned to Russia after one and a half years after his grant expired. After four months in Russia, Oleg moved to Frankfurt, Germany to work at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies. After remaining in Germany for a few years and having his second child, once Oleg’s first son reached school age, his family moved to permanently settle in Rockville, Maryland, where he currently works at the National Institute of Health. By mapping and sharing his immigration journey, Oleg describes assimilation into the United States compared to Germany and living through the collapse of the Soviet Union. Throughout this discussion, Oleg discusses how he received each work opportunity as being based on “luck”, presenting a theme of things happening to him by chance. Oleg’s story offers insights into how after the Fall of the Soviet Union, scientific collaboration between scientists in Russia, the United States, and Germany worked together to bridge research. In turn, these insights reveal how each scientific endeavor influenced Oleg’s immigration story. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR400 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Colleen Woods of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Claire O’Donnell Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 10, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, jpeg family Germany Opportunity Physics Pittsburgh Research Rockville Russia science Soviet Union visa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/192993bf15390b749e154bccae69aa5e.JPG?Expires=1781740800&Signature=rI1I5Hu8VVllwn2iAH2UDWDWNaIVG4mphEyTh9NM63h44jJhnH%7EWx%7Ep96eXkL7J-JX77JBgLysbmJ5R910iJKEJ9eIpqz9ZcfkcX5g1RDDNjdsiTrssMSO3bXyuvIIK319l7rlDxM4VtbFcGGBrJAK-6I838O6X2sZ1hQdsuRpw%7ETTLQlB0lBcs0eiz0mUgAZSs%7EWRv3dPCjbz3kDBaN%7ESq95aUxef9V-8KTpq2wUg4QBN9K1aAnHJiCMBCHgMxBk%7EoTju%7EjPpS43dhDIy12iRXFncQeAFhoNjYrzBs%7Eb2EKiRBtQILUFg4ictEDD7NcKdhal02V5pKC6QpLuNZzDQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM fcb3b404768fe58ba521650f0fbaf29b https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ee65458e7384d3d4f0249c8c49e2b1b8.JPG?Expires=1781740800&Signature=JwykdDaL%7EdnU817FEDU2Xgf%7EI6fq47sn5hiPu-deXMG4%7EMDXY-m40%7EDF005V-DHWj3goCkl4ySWaUBIVjQ36br9fUL-BMCzGKbecvQgNkuiAaTJK1Lndp6u3-MAbxzjZomkVq3aoGXwLbbTzJS9iEpdawmbTl2paQz-RF87x1hiaB60BALCmtXkEqqO3GhqCly-Zn2FwNmYdkgN7usixkdJp3ZU%7E%7Ej7gsOmvvVDqoEdipVYd87FIwxHPliUQW0BIRoIwauShy8NBD6csK04FFtL1rTB7jNjhoZz2apd3OJpLnhM8ouwhCxAFbmN1wkSNS5DD7YXSYtQ-L1OzzllEdw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM aff67ebdc540a35f61cb6a4556bf0f15 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/fb63f4edf2bf93d816d590d22b4036f7.m4a?Expires=1781740800&Signature=BeaJX5bzLkysyy2QCVvULKZn9XG5yupl%7E%7EbIrWFFIZmFs1BzvpNGL%7EBDdovymbs2oKScnxSgF%7Ej%7Ep2-Ddj3dNeqJjJbweRfobznnBAygu6xBYgfbf5n%7EIGubZ%7EYTLmztACvTktE-K2eU6ltJ1ejvBwEz9J%7E5iYwq62iJEOU8eP6uIWN85AUsl-4ZOtdo-YSF6wQkzkAee2he9RIoD062aNXWTWe9MiKKHmUg6dLI50t27T2b0%7EBIVfFYTJN-sRRdtSPfl%7E7Op9K536QLtf%7EkIleTev0ySDCwouhwsFaasSEzs6oJLflmcxvhKkg6nFk0VIE5ayPHnru1DULDCNo9ng__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM b4cb15b220d96947ec911ccecf354791 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/84c07a347ccb269926536172d3526aa4.pdf?Expires=1781740800&Signature=ailatLejMRGL%7EL4DAB4DnFQAqGUKnaSO5edf6upe3PP1RJkMdfae7RGkegyp-grt2PUzq1FGYQvcLsOwDrZwukj3wOT6pYxbO605oUBG0s4MIkwgRmdKMYtttTHcQ0O2FYJ92EmtNMI205nXiqbCULNfVFji6GwCv1Tm6Ur4dy9EJSqdda6o6vY79w8WBrEQvm9VgCHTTud0bL5wCamo-TVW5dGxk2Ia-zjary6duACH78aGPgn2PofkViewZM5Do89kDXADy3FLsRFz8dO9L4IR6SP1%7ECPALyggQD7bgCpaEYCggJ4%7ELjeJxfWvCT4TeXV0eLdc1%7EBtsTiTOm5zhA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 050de00eaf2b76b7d41d15d54cc9a527 PDF Text Text ��������������������������������������������������������� https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ce52a92ddcc87645681480c1c55c98f9.jpg?Expires=1781740800&Signature=DZMl-B83wqLSdCKhzrfsfqqNG0rzwagYpZEZwCLAdhGT%7E8yztxY2ipGlqoHJlBMvkD0s3G0zwNFhyWXkwyJGfJz2tlK-g6hCVMcYG9M8LSOyyfPoioy%7E1ZaUZLkzvymXl9lPx6ovL1ux-flDKdWFHdbRQG0U8Ei0eMAWX9XBw6huYyzap%7EinRbDBXv85%7EfXkEmN4KYqg5TdDeOtC6WwQ2AXCRAc7sPc66HlSyFe4t0DbpviwJEKDlRQy65f7WDSsqB4eJ4vVIYYdBUv8fR86qTbPH5aQLYqkHH-Qcb2KLuO4GokY8FYBsaS188a0Fa15ab3gBVxu0WUPYnYREXVKXA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 3944e9592ac4d94f3f29b7f2d131eb10 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Daniela Lopez Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lizzett Contreras Location The location of the interview Urbana, Frederick County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lizzett Contreras Description An account of the resource This interview between Daniela Lopez and Lizzett Contreras explores Lizzett’s experiences growing up in El Salvador, her family dynamics, and the reasons behind their immigration to the United States. Contreras provides vivid insights into her childhood, education, and the challenges her family faced due to the political unrest in their home country. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Daniela Lopez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, PDF, jpeg Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History civil war cultural transition education El Salvador family Green Card guerilla https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6828124cc6c782166bca03c82964144d.png?Expires=1781740800&Signature=c4eyEbXZmMO%7ErVbOiQ23asj%7E1Y0%7EtAh8c1GiloXZBmUBE%7Est7x-wvNF91K51LdIw5b0rg73-h0P4cK86-txiJmdalVp4r1DIQwQkWsGsCj%7EQEfzziw61Y89dao3OFw5naw50QkBzEoTBZUBLwk8YvW3I9i0f3GduOdl7ViE8JOFRotCXm8Qb4AFMYC8vpJZxV3itrmxqXUob1SJukNKrGSEju8M8ZFnqhvkFNfLrIHUvqlRkE6ESW7yue50vwHpmuJrNUm4Dyk3yXMgc4UUcAu8nM46kimG2N8TYOeYYchSmhCC7hbyXVvx7-vX6tim3vs%7Ee9Ta9ElnNIBWYeQvamQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dora-Marie Groelsema Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Marie-Cécile Groelsema Location The location of the interview New Carrollton, Prince George’s County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Marie-Cécile Groelsema Description An account of the resource This interview between Dora-Marie Groelsema and Marie-Cécile Groelsema explores Marie-Cécile’s experiences as an immigrant to the United States from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Seeking to advance her education, she moved to the US in 1987 to Pittsburgh to study English at University of Pittsburg. Then she moved to Indiana and studied comparative literature with a minor in film studies and African studies at Indiana University. Marie-Cécile’s interview explores her education experience in the US and in other countries, her family memories, and her refusal to identify as an immigrant. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora-Marie Groelsema Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 11, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, PDF Democratic Republic of the Congo education family identity literature university https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/41f15bade4cb24a36a455347a2b19520.png?Expires=1781740800&Signature=eATlSRpTXNKg5MxrqEQjm1zIxJbxC5VvVi1BBq%7ErV0qZFVBtiHsU4iwHJGn51n%7EC7jrLRvXdrTisWnun%7EVwCasPvJu3dFl7qx7jwaJN9vdHqMVQcRfj3pZLVJdmWBHi05NDpeb%7Ei-F5Wf4%7EUOODwH0%7EFNV6Pz5E8l7HWTkLpDi-DpCQmwExB7WkwIehREneBIK3YTOramyhyJ1gxtyZqq2p4dwrvShT5S54CZmeX36vs%7ExZq1DFz0WV0LZGFGjjS-FnfpQNYFmXj%7Eao%7Em3qXJ5TDVhgxxAdNh9AtGTz5OScA-BvifTC66yJrceCEr9eCOrKcTV4AExT%7EHij2BFRuPg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data mp4, pdf Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Emma Hall Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Luis Martinez Location The location of the interview College Park, Prince George’s County, MD, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Luis Martinez Description An account of the resource This interview between Emma Hall and Luis Martinez explores Luis’s experiences as the son of a Mexican diplomat. He lives in the United States on a diplomatic visa (through his father) so he is not an immigrant, although many of his experiences mirror those of immigrants. He explains his childhood moving history, recounting his move to Brussels, Belgium at the age of 3 and move to Maryland, USA at the age of 10. He discusses cultural differences between Mexico, Belgium, and the US and his experiences with and in his various homes. He emphasizes the value of adaptability and open-mindedness throughout his interview. He also speaks on how religion and school, specifically the International Catholic school he attended, shaped his view of the world. Luis also reveals the struggles of employment as an A1, or diplomatic, visa holder. He touches on the struggle of assimilation in new countries, employment struggles, and cultural gaps between European, North, and South America. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Emma Hall Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 26th, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio assimilation Belgium Diplomat employment international Mexico https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/57b6078d28e38f05fc4b4a8a26e3af87.png?Expires=1781740800&Signature=p1yFOSNsGzPpBoVyL9N931wvM5R0J%7Ei2K4vmD45w3rjllmDqIH3%7EXrQmrD-noSQPgoKIxdbi3uyE-aPGUKOJbetQbQvd75c2l8-xkukI0Zu86ic2ZhbZHQB0ye5XHO2S-0f0mP29%7Eb63YFcxzBsaDziQTLsgVD%7E4r8lu%7E93Ba5OlE3sDWog0D8qsmtZ7ubusXGzblMVzH70oHcMXIu6XXskVoUQSLCz1aiHoSQFk6Eyig%7EYROGAJ0uvYDSzs2OyvgjihkP1nQVk42GQ9ksEs8ZsxMiWZBRKPb14OQeb6%7E1Cod8NePNEtjtd9vZUJ0kknn8FwG9CEDSCVdmT-vZ0sjQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jannatul Mia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nayon Mia Location The location of the interview Frederick County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Nayon Mia Description An account of the resource The interview between Jannatul Mia and Nayon Mia delves into Nayon's experiences as an immigrant from Bangladesh to America. In 1993, Nayon, a Bengali, sought a better life in the United States. He recounts his upbringing in Satbiriya, Kumilla, Bangladesh, where he endured the hardships of war, pursued his education, and worked as a diesel mechanic for over 12 years. The interview details his journey to obtaining a visa and better income opportunities upon arriving in America. Nayon's narrative highlights the significant role of family and the cultural responsibility placed on him as the eldest son to provide for his parents and siblings, as well as his own wife and children. Throughout the interview, he emphasizes the importance of family and the need to secure financial stability, which influenced many of his critical life decisions. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jannatul Mia Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 2, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio America Bangladesh difficult family money work