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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Daniela Lopez Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lizzett Contreras Location The location of the interview Urbana, Frederick County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lizzett Contreras Description An account of the resource This interview between Daniela Lopez and Lizzett Contreras explores Lizzett’s experiences growing up in El Salvador, her family dynamics, and the reasons behind their immigration to the United States. Contreras provides vivid insights into her childhood, education, and the challenges her family faced due to the political unrest in their home country. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Daniela Lopez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, PDF, jpeg Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History civil war cultural transition education El Salvador family Green Card guerilla https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/7fe4b52855c9817e95d265edad5eb985.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=DnnAxLdYEi%7EsKULjV5O0Yf-VfyHGTfHOYLKg8vppkrs99-jGDiFs7VrMdTO%7EZgTjf%7ES1k3hWnUa26HCdiwy35rWipuahw4LLr0elUhfAhMdDb9RE5TxSUFzRUaPX2938tGN7AKR31KBPFLW%7EqS2D4X31MetabmkG5gR%7ExzVm8TbRkfzv4-bUNz0BlkvWDvE78Nv6UgCYJ7ntceakjpBDFBhrqyFwT9CcqpTvS4bm7uB9NH4tKCmMX5NAeTrXJ0dVt4pWXXdewhCvdrktru9bz4s6gbPDZCgVvSsHuRQYrco3NOWgzIrhQjp0CQxF%7EC-Yn8vxaKSF7f3SEIBDHwor0g__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2022 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data doc, mp4 Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Will Lobo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Keith Lobo Location The location of the interview Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Keith Lobo Description An account of the resource This interview is between Will Lobo and Keith Lobo. It explores Keith’s immigration from Pakistan to the US as a student and how he adapted to American culture. Will and Keith also discuss their family and how Keith’s immigration process affected the family. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2022). This course was led by Professor Robert Chiles of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Will Lobo Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 12, 2022 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, mp4 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History family Green Card marriage Pakistan Student Visa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4a2d9e875fd104da6256fd4eb88981e3.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=niU1BRQmPrkZLHS5PCroF03dWsRvv1AqFedHcl8Mvse9EpmJfACUyATAmhSPJiP%7EG3YAIApI2FyhJ0Rs4zlUzS8HHWjlC85x0C2ElhpuNSYQf8Gm26hCyXB8uvDrl0WiMv2utyFQYEA8wo-Q1p0sEiBTnPe9xjTd6nKM4tY1pkmXhOZ%7EZC9shQRml9LmA37g9Qo3TiLrvEmeq8KDl5wJMG-xMWMT0rETor9TufpAhyVhXmkp2voeLrLXTCPEPapvhhr4WcJuTT7HJ2Y65WWhnWNGf9gBlPdmEpC3j%7Eeo-VoHG-HSTHkvDAuYoOGej0ILqtqjsZW3Ce5GNJF8Rl6jOQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 6147894ad22328604a02f7e8ed554f7b https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/7070aee80ef97c39565f505e41899703.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=F7gR0%7EHdilsYRAhUCbFqNvwh4AFuxALQHhkYdR%7EWg2CKqzjabXcXR1ZkArQ5z9oTvmRyDQW9u7h2j2iqcMwdncIMpps4b09hMobd6YZ1KfihhNW0ZIRDoQJTdQZLfGYUN1CuDhb5drzJ1DXIkK7wcycMgIkPn3jvjiiPTp2LEJsbVZN8Zcl62aztxEEHvHYheS5PVzTylkM3gvEz0u9Gd8eEJWjQMIl3NI1eWbZmU4xhumhlrJPsRuBDCTj6JQcz%7EZ1Eni95CMRF0feRsOmsgFvLQfTMlSriuFIP0Y%7ESNzSO%7E7A0hFL3ZfLr191tkrF8qoxldls83q8tx6I3yKiF6w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 3c716310d12b0ca10878c8a3bde68026 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4a892d9388631515563fefe127a0c9f5.mp3?Expires=1779926400&Signature=KQ%7EXjOwtIoYCfblP3mF3FE11-CWE6V-ZSJAs-O3HjsWyg9KyTro6za3sWaquCL-z3BvPbN7L9ZvVTz9MzrdrDCOe7mX-PJaESepVyD8X3dKzE8lVB-sIZZLzLtdHd8uu1t%7EJdkdkdQ%7EUNeeqTQtBtObdBQyYNF9Vkh4VNncM9Vv64hecwUZCaFNAbY2vTLzr1JJT%7EwS-i-3C0M72xWUItM782OIyAu43REPdlq92oMWoU6mgNUadkJI31D%7EiNp--GOrYZ1mpFos4KrLuGpmO2r1nWWerv7W0IIPrPq73T%7ELQV8SzmxgK2%7E4Dgf4I7XujlX%7EjqsKrveSoOeXhtEyByQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 009db56466f16115bde2f90d683a4d4c https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/9228135b4ae80c8deba4da2d498b653e.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=o36PLOD76wIA5p72XXanJEBmqU5Ko23oap7ZfBD5Dc3vHN5TE%7EKkPMV3zR-2DxZR9Spo3yftspMFWZS1Zlwi4t4orb%7EfoibiEeHSPEferDfSvtGuK5nxn4FGZ1DndMnoba3Ui-E94Z2BYtTZrQb3C3E7DMpjg2Tvl9PAtCtHBsj8nk9sRTA0E18oRXmZLwHP7Tt83vPohGIG8uRT-WgY4MSIAww3gRwWQEjYWSFFUhfUzq2hLGnnSRT6-8uCZjx-6a1kUnj1CPazWqizCIcxyXoOu6dXk7AuqReVjNIKEu3Mjo2SM92H0Xf%7EH5gc620J9kWBqImFQ7zplqVamOP%7EdQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 66885a1a9ebe362a9b1bc980e0f290c8 PDF Text Text Transcript of an Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course IMMR 400 – Spring 2020 Instructor: Dr. Chiles Interviewer: Harshaan Grewal Interviewee: Kul Sandhu Interviewee’s Country of Origin: India Introduction: This interview between Harshaan Grewal and Kul Sandhu discusses Kul’s immigration from India to the US, as well as Kul’s family, marriage, school, and philosophies of life. Kul talks about political and religious conflict he and his family experienced in India. Kul also speaks about convincing his family to let him move to the US, the way in which his grandmother advocated for him to move, as well as eventually sponsoring his family to become US citizens themselves. Key Words: India, Sikh, education, marriage, sponsor, friendship, Punjab, green card, John F. Kennedy Harshaan: Um. Okay so it says recording on my end. So, with that we’ll get started. So, first question I want to ask um is what part of India did you grow up in? Kul: Well, I was born in 1937. And uh I lived with my grandmother from ’37-’45. That means, you know—no ‘37 to ‘47, not ‘45. Ten years. Because my father had a job at different places. He was an agriculture/horticulture specialist. So, he was at jobs with my mom and my sister next to me and one of my brothers next to. And so, grandmother was all by herself, and knowing that Indian families, what happened is my grandfather’s two brothers were living in the same complex. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And their—and my grandmother was young, she got married when she was 13 years old, and my grandfather never came back from the World War. And my [grand]father, he never knew that my father, you know, father was going to be born. And father, my father did not see his father. And so, what we did, she [Kul’s grandmother] wanted some sort of security, that there’s a male member is with her. Unless—even though I was a little kid. But what it was that the other people said, “Okay, why don’t you get married to us,” so they could get the land and all those things, you know. That was the— People did that in India for being, you know, uh that. There were two—my grandfather’s two brothers were living in the same complex. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: So, in 1947—that was India at that time too, ‘37-’47. �Harshaan: Oh, that’s right, that’s right. Kul: When it became Pakistan, then we had to leave quickly. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And um you know [I was] 10 years old and all that stuff. Um and with my other brother, two sisters and one brother, my parents. We all—in the middle of the night we left because we were afraid that somebody would kill us also. So, we travelled in uh nighttime, and hide in the sugar cane fields to save our lives. Harshaan: Oh, wow. Kul: Uh, and it took us almost about a week from where they were. My father was the horticulture manager for “Maharaja of Faridkot” who had 2,500 acres of beautiful fruit trees, all that stuff, you know. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And uh he was given a car and a hor—white horse, and other stuff, but we had to leave it in an emergency. So finally, when we came to the border, which was a river in Punjab. There were five rivers. Two—two and a half [of the rivers], you know, they were in what became Pakistan and the other one stayed with Punjab. So, we came in around uh one o’clock in the morning or something, because that’s the time they said, you know, that you could—would let you cross. It was our family and a few other people in the bus. The other four trucks were loaded with people, refugees, they were not allowed to [cross], you know. So, there was one policeman, Muslim policeman that came in, he said, with tears he came in and said, “You have only 15 minutes to live, because we have orders to kill all of you. You cannot cross the border.” Because my father was a known person, you know, and all that. So, quickly we got into the cars and, you now, all went back to another village, and there father—my father made a deal with the policeman over there in that little town or village that if we could go—because he [the policeman] told us earlier that “My family, son and his family is stuck back on the other side and they won’t let—let them come.” And so, you know, we said, “Why don’t we make a trade?” At three o’clock in the morning we crossed the border. Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: Because of the trade. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And then, you know, from there we were travelling to my mother’s place that was—we were in Punjab, which is India now. And uh in Ludhiana, that’s where my mother’s village was, we saw all sorts of uh what you call uh dead bodies on the sidewalks on the side of the road, dogs and birds eating. This is what the, you know, situation we went through. And for 10 years old it was kind of hard to believe. And uh so what we did was that my father when we came in, �he became a big officer because he was educated, he got his bachelor’s degree in science in 1936. I was born in 1937 in Lahore which was the capital of Punjab at that time. So, um he got a good job and we moved to uh a city called Karnal, which was 73 miles from New Delhi. That was Punjab also at the same time. And he was a big officer and uh, you know, all the stuff. And um the land we had left behind because we were farmers, and that land had to be from that Lyallpur, you know, that little city, we had to go to Hassar another little province. Uh but luckily what happened was that my father being—knowing all that stuff, he found a law that said if you happened to have some land that we’ll put the other land with it too. So, he went and bought thirteen acres of land just outside Karnal, which was undeveloped, but we will take care of it. That’s how we came into, you know, um after—in ‘48, ‘49 we bought the land and we build the house there. Okay? And then when I grew up there, we walk for three miles to go to high school and then to college. And uh I went to a Punjab college called Dyaal Singh College. And that college is the one which uh was three miles, so what we do we went there, you know, and that’s where we survived. After I graduated, then my father had some influence and all that stuff and uh he— in 1959 I got my undergraduate degree. And it was called Punjab University Dyaal Singh College. And my father was quite influential, so he working out with different judges and all those people because he had a good post also. So, he had somebody came in, he say, “I have a problem with my uh self, you know, could you help us out, you know, to talk to the judge.” So, he thought he could do that, you know, and get out of it. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: My sister’s [mother’s] brother, my Mama ji, he was there too, and they gave him piece of paper, “This is the case, this the name of the people, let’s give this to judge and they’ll be fine.” And I took the bicycle, I went part of the way and discovered I didn’t bring the piece of paper, so what am I going to do? When I came in secretly to pick up the piece of paper, um I overheard the conversation going on between my mother, her brother, and my father. He said, “Now—” remember, I’m the oldest in the family of five, and they said, “You know, he’s grown up, we— and he finished his college, we’ll get him a good job and get him married.” And I said, “Oh my god, I don’t want to get married!” You know? (both laugh) I—I took the piece of paper, went back, and took it to, you know, meeting his judge. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: One of my friends from my uh mother’s village, uh Ram Prakash Mahant, lived across from them. He went to Canada to study, and uh he wanted me to come to Canada. And when I learned that they’re trying to get me married and all that stuff, they want me to take care of the farm and all that stuff, I didn’t want to do it. Harshaan: Right. Kul: So, I wrote to Ram Prakash Mahant, “Hey, I think, you know, I need to get out from here, and um this is a situation I’ll explain to you later, but uh see if you could help me out.” I sent the papers to him, and in Vancouver, University of British Columbia, uh he was—that’s where he was going to school. He sent me the papers, I applied for it, I got the admission. �Harshaan: Oh wow! That’s awesome. Kul: Once I got the admission, immigration used to be fairly simple, you know. So, when I got the admission, I got the—even the card room assigned in the dorm, all that stuff ready to go. I was going to be going to the engineering school. And what happened when I went to the—I told my father, okay, once I made up my mind, I don’t want to stick around there. And in my heart it was, “I don’t want to get married, I want to go, and you know, why not?” Harshaan: Yeah, yeah. Kul: And my uh—I told my father I gotta go. I want to go. He said, “Oh you can’t go.” And I said, “Oh, but Ram Prakash is there and I’ve been talking to him.” And he says, “I don’t care.” Then I use my grandmother as a weapon. Because I spent first ten years with my grandmother to be really helpful to her even though I was a kid. I told my grandmother, “I want to go.” And she said, “You sure?” I say, “Yes.” I said, “I do want to go.” And she said, “Okay, well let’s see what I can do.” In the meantime, I went to the embassy in New Delhi. Uh, Canadian embassy. And I gave them the paper. They said, “Looks everything good, and we’ll get the medical done, and then come back in ten days, you know, fifteen days with medical, and then we’ll proceed it.” I got my whole test done by the local hospital. Once I went to the doctor, I went over there for my visa. (laughing) They flunked me for my stool examination. I got it done, it was okay, they said—I said, “Here is the proof.” And they said, “No, it’s our doctor who decides that.” That’s when I found out that I forgot to give them under the table some money. Five rupees (laughing). Harshaan: Five rupees. That’s it? Kul: Five rupees. That’s it! Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: So, I told my guy, you know, I said, “When can I come back?” He said, “Get ready in three months and come back.” Harshaan: That’s a long time. Kul: Within three months, my admissions and everything was going to go away. So, I said, “Hey, this is a situation, what should I do?” So, privately I just, you know, uh went to the library and pick up the other universities in United States. So, where I could—finally, I applied to a couple of places. I got accepted at United States. In Nashville, Tennessee. Harshaan: Nashville. I remember you [inaudible] Kul: So—yeah. So, I got out of things and I went to the embassy and that’s the day Kennedy, our president here, he’s the one who won the election. And they were in a good mood and all that stuff, and they said, “Okay, go to the doctor.” And I went to the doctor where everything was �clear. I—I had—I got the passport earlier, um and then I came back and my father said, “No, you can’t go.” I said, “Well, I have to, look I have this passport, visa, all that stuff.” He said, “Nope, I’m not paying for it.” So, I went to grandma and said, “Here’s the situation.” She said, “I know you want to go, I want to you be happy, so let’s see what I could do.” She went to my father, she said, “He has to go because I want him to go.” He said, “No, he can’t go.” She said, “Okay, I’m going on a hunger strike, and I’m not going eat a bite ‘til that happens that he goes.” And he tested her for one—one and a half days. She did not eat anything. And finally, he—my mother happy for me because she wanted me to go. She talked to her brother and her brother said, “Go ahead, you know, if you are going to go, I’ll pay for your ticket.” Yeah, and he lived about, you know, two hundred miles away from us. Yeah. So, finally that give me the courage, my grandmother ended her one day on a hunger strike, and finally, hey, I did—I got the ticket on BOAC [British Airways] up on the plane. That was the month of uh November 1960. And I came to New York. First, you know, the plane landed in London, and I had to change the flight from there, you know, for New York. (chuckling) And uh, what happened was, they said, “Lunch is on the go— uh house.” Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: And there were forks and knives, I didn’t know how to use those! (Harshaan laughs) My stomach is hurting I am already full! Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: (laughing) But, you know, I just hopped on the plane and came to New York. The flight came in uh, oh somewhere close to 10:30-11:00 in New York. Then I had to change the flights to go from there to Nashville, Tennessee, and that flight reached there around 3:30 AM. And uh I thought, you know, uh, you know, everything’s open, but 3:30 AM was very early—dark. And I went to those people at the staff, you know, airline staff and said, “What should I do?” They said, “You can’t stay here.” You know, because everybody’s gone and all that stuff. So, I said, “What should I do?” He said, “You gotta go to a hotel or motel.” So, I went to the motel, I mean I had some money in my pocket, and I went to the motel, uh and I stayed there for two hours and then I went to the University. Harshaan: Oh, in your dorm, right? Kul: Yeah. And uh for two hours I paid for the night. And after I paid my first semester’s fees, uh I had about $7.20 in my pocket. But the fees were to cover my two semesters, you know. Harshaan: Right, right, yeah. Kul: So, uh I—I was in pretty good shape, you know, in that sense. I don’t know whether you could see my picture or not. This is what I was in turban. (shows picture but not in a way that camera can see it) Harshaan: You mind holding it up a bit? You mind angling it up a little more? �Kul: Oh, higher? Harshaan: Yeah, higher. Kul: (shows picture of about nine men in suits) Harshaan: Okay, not I can see it. Kul: Yeah. I’m the one in the middle right here. Yeah, there were two other Indians, one on this side with the turban (points to the right) and the other guy from Bombay. Harshaan: I see. Kul: And other people of course from different places, you know. Okay? So, what happened was that, you know, I—I said, “Well—” The admission I got was Auto Diesel College, but you know, I wear a necktie and suit and all that stuff. Um I didn’t want to be a mechanic or anything. Harshaan: Right. Kul: So, I went to university called Peabody College. Harshaan: Peabody? Kul: Peabody. And it’s Vanderbilt University and Peabody College program. I went—I went for my graduate school there, got admission, and start my work there. And then I had figured out, you know, I—you know, I’ll start majoring in geography because my undergraduate degree was in geography uh and English and physics. So, I was doing okay, uh then I had to try to figure out, you know, what I’m gonna do because a master’s degree in arts is not gonna get me a good job. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And it’s only side I worked at gas station, you know, whatever it is to that, you know, stuff. And finally, I went to couple of places to get a better field. My parents wanted me to be either a doctor or engineer. But, uh my math was not that good, so I didn’t want to be an engineer. Doctor, I didn’t want to be a doctor because in high school in India, I took the uh, you know, b— biology and botany, and the teacher, first they said, “You know, we are going to cut a rabbit and all that stuff.” And I said, you know, it was in high school. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: They said there would be blood and all. I kept crying, I said, “I want to get out.” So, I'm looking around at all that stuff, I wonder if there’s something I could do which is a good combination: do a good service, and I don’t wanna do too much math. I found the—that there is a program called City and Regional Planning. Yeah. So, I talked to people and all the stuff, and I �discovered, you know, that I could do a good service by planning good communities and job places and uh hospitals and all those things, you know, that really could provide a good service. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And, uh, and then I won’t see blood or I won’t see the math! So, what I did was that I did my graduate work at Peabody-Vanderbilt, and then I look for where should I go to—go to get the degree. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: I went to Virginia Tech. Yeah, in Virginia Tech they—I came in in 1964. Okay? And in 1964, um, you know, I got into the urban planning, city and regional planning. And one thing I want to say, in Nashville, Tennessee, the—looking at the questions, you know, how did the Americans treated me? Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: Yeah. What happened was that, you know, I was working on gas station and all, and I used to have a turban and all that stuff. And then they came on bus and go to, you know, the school or something. And couple of people in the bus started pushing me around. And uh I said, “Why you are doing that to me?” And they said, you know, “Uh, we don’t want Cubans here.” The Cuban crisis in 1963 was going on. Harshaan: Oh, so they [inaudible] Kul: I said, “I’m not Cuban! Here’s my passport, I’m from India.” They said, “Oh, you can have a passport made anytime you want to.” Harshaan: Wow. Kul: So, I went to the driver, I told him, “Would you please stop the bus so that I could get out because they’re bothering me?” Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And even though he was also an Indian in America, he said, “I can’t stop it, there’s no stop.” So, I just, you know, came out very depressed, and you know, a little bit mad about it. Harshaan: Yeah, that’s terrible. Kul: And that’s when I cut my hair first time. So that at least nobody there gonna push me around. But one was that, the other one, my name was Kul and they call me names like “Coolwinder, Side-winder,” those things (laughing). So, back to Virginia Tech. I went first, uh, first semester there uh and uh I was running out of money. Blacksburg is a very small place, there were not that many jobs. �Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: I said, “Well, gotta do something.” Uh, and also at the same time, Virginia Tech, because it was a small town, uh Blacksburg, so they were bringing the whole class to George Washington, University in Washington, so that they know city big enough for planning situation. There was the whole summer, whole class came here with professors. Harshaan: I see. Kul: So, I said I gotta find out, you know, where I could work and go to school, and it’s a city rather than rural planning. (laughs) So, what I did was that I came here in a catholic university in Washington, DC. I talked to the head of the department because that school had only night classes. Harshaan: You said this was Catholic University? Kul: Catholic University. So, I came to 1965, you know, to Catholic University. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And uh I work with Maryland National Capital Park and Planning Commission. Harshaan: I see. Kul: As a student in the city planning—planning department. Harshaan: I see. Kul: And from there, uh I went to classes, and in 1966, I graduated with a master’s degree. Harshaan: I see. Kul: In city and regional planning. And I had the job for the Planning Commission, then I worked for the consulting firm, and then I want to—I have some friends in Blacksburg, so I went back to Blacksburg um including when my girlfriend was there (both laugh). So, I went there back and worked with a consulting firm in Roanoke, Virginia. Yeah. And uh one of my old professors he was also working there, so it worked out very well for both of us, you know, at work. So, I worked at the Madon & Madon, it was, you know, a consulting firm. In regional planning and architecture and engineering. So then, uh what happened was um in 1967, I got my green card from the student card, student visa. Then ‘67 I work with the firm and once I got my green card, I said, “I got to go back to India now to visit.” After seven years. Harshaan: Yeah. �Kul: I—I went to London. Ram Prakash, my friend from Canada, he finished his degree and he was working in England. Uh, and I went to visit them, and I said, “Hey, while I’m here I might as well learn something.” I had a book under my arm that said Europe Word of the Day. Uh, so I went to Paris, back from Paris, you know, I got on a train and went through uh Germany, Austria—Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. Just touring around. And I had a green card, so you know, there was no problem there. So, from there I came back and—to uh, you know, back to Paris to book a flight from there all the way to Delhi. Harshaan: Hmm. Kul: And by the time I get there, my grandmother is already gone. She died. But everybody was there, and they were just happy there. And, you know, after me is my sister, that is your grandma, and then um my brother, and then my sister which is uh Honey’s mom, and then there was my other brother who was uh Naunihal. Okay? Over there my parents say, “Hey, he’s back.” Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: Oh no before that, when I was getting off from the plane, uh there was a German lady with two kids. That were blonde. I was trying to help them out. And everybody said, “Oh, he’s married her and has a family.” I said, “No, that’s not my wife!” (both laughing) Just I was trying to help these little kiddies. I said, “Well, you know, I’ll go back to her when I go back. No, I’m not married.” Um, and then what I did was that my father already advertised for finding a girl for me. I was very much opposed to it because I came to see you guys. And—but, you know, they wanted to do that. It’s, I mean, parents, you know, kind of thing. And then uh I said, “Well, okay.” He said, “You can’t go back if you don’t get married.” And I said, “Hey, I told those people at work I coming back by such and such day, you know, I don’t—I can’t let that expire.” Harshaan: Right. Kul: So, finally I said, “Hey, you know, let’s play a game with them.” I said, “Well, let’s see what you could find. And I’m—but condition is I’m gonna see some time and they could see me also.” And they will have some—some presentations, you know, and watching—I am introduced to them. They have that you know, Mecca return and blah, blah, blah, blah. You know? So, I saw some girl uh I didn’t want to get married. And uh some saw me, some said “yes,” other said “reject.” It’s okay! Because I was clean shaved and all that stuff, you know. And finally, there was a girl who was an ar—degree finishing up architecture. Uh, in India, one of the schools. She lived in Chandigarh. And they said, “Okay, let’s go see her.” Architecture and city planning was close. I said, “Why not?” You know, my dad, your grandpa, myself and uncle fly in from New York; we went to Chandigarh. When we went to the girl’s house and they said, “She’s on the train on her way.” And then she said, you know, “She is sick. She’s not going to be here for a few days.” So, I said, “Well, you know, okay.” Then there was another one also advertised. While we’re here, why not? You know, two blocks from there was her. So, we went to this office and that’s where your auntie Pashi’s dad’s business was. He showed me the picture, I said, “Hey, looks good though.” And then after—it was closer to the end of the day, and I said, “Is there any way we could get back to you?” And he said, “Don’t you want to see the girl? In person?” I said, “Hey, that’s my kind of man.” You �know? He had a car, so he loaded us up and took us to his house. And your auntie Prakash she was little [guarded?] also. And they let us talk to her for a little bit, you know. And at that time, we found out that one of my professors when I was in the college, and her professor, they’re the same person! So, we talked about that for the time. And all that stuff, and I kind of liked it because they said, you know, “One of our sisters is married to an engineer, uh and the other sister is married to somebody in London.” All that stuff, I said, “Hey, that look like cosmopolitan.” Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: So, I said, “Well, okay, we’ll get back to you.” And my father-in-law, Pashi’s mom—or dad, he said, “I have a meeting in Bombay.” He was in transportation and finance business. He said, “I have a meeting in Bombay, I am going there for only four day. If we hear from you, you let us know after you talk to your family, and if not, that’s totally understandable.” That was another thing that sold me, hey, that’s the kind of family I like! (Harshaan laughs) So, I came in and it was three days and fourth day was approaching. And I showed her to my mom and my sisters and everybody, you know, grandma and all. And they really liked that girl—they [the girl’s family] gave me a picture. And my father still wasn’t there (laughs). So, next day—next morning I got on the bicycle, we didn’t have a telephone at the farm. So, I went to three miles peddling bicycle to the post office, and I dialed the, uh, I dialed the telephone number for Pashi’s, you know, dad. I said, “I’m it.” (Harshaan laughs) He said, “Oh, did you talk to your parents?” I said, “Almost everybody. But not one.” Then, uh, he said, “Okay, have them contact us.” You know? So, my father came in, I told him, he was upset, all that stuff. But once I told him about the family, um he said, “Okay, let’s look into it.” And then we found out, you know, that Pashi’s uh, Pashi’s [relative] was married to someone my father knew. And also, Pashi’s cousin uh was married to another person and we— my father knew about it. So, we looked—he looked at it, “Hey, that’s a good bondage.” Because when he was in Karnal everybody knew him, and that way he knew some people. And we found that connection. Harshaan: That’s good, yeah. Kul: So, it was 17th of December, 1967. I was uh in a hurry, you know, because I got to go back to work. I said, “Okay.” Engagement was New—uh Christmas Eve. Um and wedding was New Year’s Eve. 1967. Within two weeks. Harshaan: Wow yeah. Kul: We did that. (claps hands for emphasis) And uh January of 1967, I said, “I gotta go.” They said, “Okay, you go and then you—she could stay here and all.” I said, “No. That was not part of the deal,” (Harshaan laughs) “she comes with me.” So, finally, they said, “Okay, we’ll see if she gets all the papers.” We got the passport done, I took her to the American Embassy, and at that time uh what happened was that the clerical in the front said, “No, no, we don’t have time, and blah, blah, blah.” And Pashi was with me. And then I said, “Hey, I came so far over here, can I talk to one of the, you know, seniors—your supervisors?” I said, “Okay.” There was a young guy, and uh looked pretty good, uh young. I talked to him about the, you know, situation. And �um I want to find out more about him. He said, “Oh, so how long you been here?” He says [I said], “About five, six months.” He said, “Well, you just came in, what about the family?” I said, “I just got married, I didn’t want to leave my wife, I brought her.” I said, “This is it, that’s the reason I’m here, I want to take my wife with me.” He said, “Come back tomorrow—day after tomorrow—no, come back tomorrow. You got a visa.” (Harshaan laughs) That’s how she got the visa. Harshaan: Aww, that’s wonderful. Kul: So, we came in and uh we came to London. Pashi’s sister over there and family. We spent one week with them, I was very pleased with them because good nature, you know. That was Pashi’s older sister. The other one, middle one was in Can—Canada. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And uh—no, wait at that time she was not in Canada. And so, we came in and we got settled. And um in 1967 we were in Salem, Virginia, close to Roanoke, between Roanoke and Blacksburg. And then I got a job up in Old Town Alexandria. So, we—Pashi didn’t have a driver’s license, but she knew some driving, so we bought a little Volkswagen. No clutch, change gears. So, I had a three-cylinder all of books and finer things, we didn’t have much loaded up in the car. We came to Washington. And uh this is the Washington in 1963, when I went to see the World’s Fair, I drove my Volkswagen and I got stuck in Washington, DC. Every time I go around the Washington Monument, I couldn’t go anywhere the traffic was so bad. So, I figured out, you know, what should I do? Well, there was absolutely no parking. No parking there, I knew the policeman was going to come. Policeman came right away, he said, “Can’t you read the sign?” I said, “Officer, just tell you the honest truth, I am stuck in this damn traffic. I am—I have to go to New York. Uh before it got too dark.” And uh, um, “I knew that you could help me out.” He said, “Follow me.” He put me in the right area and he got me out of the city (laughs). Harshaan: Wow. Kul: The city, at that time I say, “I hate the city, I don’t ever want to move there.” But then I went to school here, Catholic University and all that. And we loved it. Ever since, loved this place so much. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And then, you know, I—I think I found out, you know, people wanted—my brother came, uh and my parents came, then uh Auntie came, and then uh my father died and your parents came in. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: Only—no, not parents, your grandparents came in before we cremated him. Then I think, you know, your mom and Gogi came in and all that stuff. And my parents went back and brought �Bobby also. And that’s how I am, and I love it, I would never go anywhere else. This is my side of the story. Harshaan: Such a beautiful, beautiful—first, thank you so much for sharing all of that. Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: How in depth you were. Kul: Hey, look at this. [Kul holds up an old newspaper article.] Harshaan: Is that you? Can you turn it up a bit? Kul: Yeah! [Title of the article is “Visitor from India tells how Parents Choose Children’s Mates.” The article shows a picture of a younger Kul.] Harshaan: (laughs) Wow! (Kul laughs) Is this in the Punjabi newspaper or American? Kul: No, no, there was American family and they ask me what kind of food you could make. And I said, “I don’t know! Let’s try it.” So, I made something, and they put it out, “Hey, good cook, good food.” Harshaan: Wow. Kul: And then in another one [holds up another newspaper article], there were a couple of Indian families renting a house, and uh, see this is what my life was. Harshaan: That is so interesting. I love that. Kul: Yeah, and a couple of other things I want to show you. Uh let’s see. [Holds up picture of himself] This one was me when I came. Harshaan: Do you mind angling up? Just a bit. Oh wow. Kul: And then after the people tried to throw me from the bus this is what I was. [Holds up another picture of himself.] Harshaan: This was after you cut your hair? Kul: (laughs) Yeah. And that’s the way life was, buddy. And uh that’s my side of the story, any else you want to ask? Harshaan: Yeah, absolutely. I don’t wanna like uh move around too far, so if you don’t mind, I want to start from kind of like the beginning of your story and just work forward. Kul: Say it again. �Harshaan: Um, I just—I just said I kinda wanna like work from the beginning like— Kul: Okay, sure, sure. Harshaan: —don’t wanna bounce around too much. Kul: No problem. Harshaan: Um, so, I know this personally, but I just wanna ask for the camera, um what is your religious background and how were members of your religion treated in India? Um and did this play any role—any uh role in affecting your decision to uh coming to the United States? Kul: Uh, my family they were all Sikhs. With the turbans and all that stuff. I remember I was three years old my grandmother will say, “You have to wear a turban.” And I said, “Why?” She said, “You are a Sikh.” In addition to that, she wanted to have a guy in a turban when the grandfather’s brother die, [and people were] trying to be rough on my grandma. That say, “Hey, there’s a man over here.” Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: (both laugh) I was treated very well. All Sikhs had to get out of that part of Punjab. Yeah. So, I had my turban and even in India, you know, my grandmother did a part, so she even made me do some parts. I remember some parts, you know. So, that’s how I was and up until I left India I get treated very well because it is the educated family and all that stuff, you know. And the college I went to was [run by a very rich man]. And he’s the one who has the college in Lahore where I was born. And in Pakistan, he wanted to move that, but there was a clause that they say, “Your college cannot move from this place.” So, there is still a college in Lahore and it’s where I graduated. Harshaan: That is very interesting. Kul: And uh I am still, you know, still the Sikh. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: Yeah, and the only place I went to in Nashville, Tennessee couple of colleges—uh, no couple of churches. Just to tell the story when the Bengal tiger comes from. (both laugh) And I know how to ride a camel. All those things, those kinds of funny things, you know. And then I got an invitation for a dinner party with those people. (laughs) Harshaan: Mm-hm. It all works out in the end. Kul: It does, yeah. �Harshaan: That is wonderful. Um, you kind of addressed this already, but I just wanted to ask the question specifically. Kul: Sure. Harshaan: Um, so in terms of economic and political factors, what were some of the factors in India at the time that made you decide leave? If any at all. Kul: In India we were very, very good, as I said my father had a good job, and then we had land, and owned our own farm where we built a house, and we grew uh rice, wheat, all sorts of beans, and uh potatoes, tomatoes, all the vegetables, sugarcane, and you name it. That’s what we grew. And we were fairly okay. There was not any problem. And uh my youngest brother, he was born in 1950, June 1950. And uh after I came here, you know, poor thing he had um, what you call? Cancer. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And he died. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And so that’s part of life, you know. And uh I was thinking of even getting him over here too. But, you know, fate took him earlier. But that’s part of it. So, everybody was Sikh and we were treated very well in India. When I came in [to the US] I had difficulties with the turban I told you about. But I didn’t change. In Nashville, Tennessee there was hardly any Indians, that’s why those people think I am from Cuba. But there was no gurdwara [Sikh temple], there was no Sikhs or anything. Uh, there was one doctor came in to Vanderbilt University. Uh, and I saw them walking on the street close to the Vanderbilt University, that’s where he was going to do research, and then that’s the only person I saw in Nashville, Tennessee. And uh ‘til he died in New York, he had three daughters, all doctors, they married all doctors, their kids are all doctors. And a few years ago, nine doctors in the family, then he died. His wife still lives in New York, and one daughter lives in New York, one in Philidelphia, one in San Francisco. Harshaan: Hm. Kul: And I still talk to them. Harshaan: Hm. That’s very sweet. Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: That’s cool. Um, let me see. Um, I guess you kind of touched on this a little bit as well, but what were your first thoughts when you first came to New York and to Nashville? Kul: Yeah. �Harshaan: Anything, even like when you stayed at the motel. What were your first initial thoughts about the US? Kul: Uh, UN? Harshaan: The—the United States. Kul: Oh, United States. I was so much excited to come not even knowing what United States is all about, other than conversation with Ram Parkash. You know, Canada and United States was same. Uh, and uh in my excitement, I was very much pleased that I was there. I did not know anybody when I came to Nashville, Tennessee. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: I did not have anybody that I communicated those things, you know. I took it, it was people—I did speak some English, but not the same kind of English they were speaking. Nobody was prejudiced against me, you know, they were understanding people. And in those days what they used to do is that a foreign student, a family will take those in to make them comfortable, get adjusted. I found a family in Nashville, Tennessee. Harshaan: Oh, really? Kul: And then when I came to Blacksburg, I found another family, which adopted me for three weeks. Harshaan: Wow. Kul: Yeah. And in our house, these Aztec paintings— Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: Well, that’s the person that you know that was my family. She was a painter. And I enjoyed it. And when I came into Washington, by that time I grew out of the whole thing and I was okay. So, I—I like to—the more I got closer to people [claps hands for emphasis], the more I loved, you know, USA. Harshaan: Of course. Kul: And I enjoyed every moment, nobody was uh, you know, trying to take advantage of me other than two drunk people in the bus. Harshaan: Hm. �Kul: So, that was—and I forgave them. I said, “Well, that’s big deal.” And they don’t know it. And, you know, when I have in my hand, passport says Indian and turban, they—those people, they don’t wear turbans. (laughing) Harshaan: Yeah. It’s not important to them. Kul: But everybody treated me very well. Harshaan: That’s good. Kul: I made some good friends. I friend—I met some people in my hard times, other than financially, they helped me out. Yeah, and uh I, you know, hey, I saw—I played around very much with people and had a good time. I had a couple girlfriends there and here, that was okay too. So, that—that’s my, you know, I—I from that time onward even until today, this is where I want to be. And this is where I want to die too. Harshaan: That is so beautiful. Kul: If and when the day comes. Harshaan: Of course. Kul: As a matter of fact, I was telling your auntie, “I think I’m ready to donate my organs to your hospital.” (laughs) So, that we don’t have to go to funeral home. Harshaan: Hm. That’s brave of you. Kul: Yeah? That’s how what I believe. That’s what I want to do. Harshaan: To give back? Kul: Yes. Harshaan: I’ve always seen that as your character. That is so awesome. Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: That is really cool. Um— Kul: Wait, you say “cool,” that’s me! (both laugh) I didn’t officially change my name. But we went to the, you know, citizens and said, “What’s your name?” And I said, “Kul Mandar in parenthesis ‘cool.’” And on the passport, it says “Kul Sandu.” �Harshaan: Your passport says, “Kul Sandu?” Kul: And they said, “Yeah we know that you’re cool, but what is your name?” And I said, “It’s K-U-L.” (both laugh) And then they said, “Kul.” And I said, “I told you that!” (both laugh) Harshaan: Yeah, that is funny. So, you mentioned earlier that you actually stayed with a family in the United States, um was that part of the admissions process to the university or was that something separate thing you decided to do? Kul: In Nashville, Tennessee I decided it. Harshaan: You did? Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: How did the university accommodate other people who were coming from different countries? Kul: Very well, very well. Harshaan: That’s good. Kul: Very well. Harshaan: That’s good. Kul: As a matter of fact, you know, uh wherever I went, being different, the American students as well as the faculty, they wanted to get close enough to find out more about you. And work with you. And toward the end hours every time the conversation, “Anything we could do, we’ll be there for you.” And that’s what gave me the strength to continue. Harshaan: That is huge yeah. Kul: And that’s what, you know, up until now and onwards, it’s a give and take. Because I had to give—I was giving something and they saw it and appreciate it. I saw something in them, I said, “This is worth every bit of where I want to be.” Harshaan: Absolutely. That is so—that is really big development, so I am glad you experienced that. Um, let’s see, so you already mentioned that you came by yourself, you mentioned how people treated you, you mentioned you came to New York. Uh, you did touch on this a little bit, but um what exactly was your first job when you came into Nashville? Was it the gas station? �Kul: Uh, I worked at a gas station. Then I was working in a uh—some sort of a organization, they have all sorts of books and they, you know, send out the materials to other people. Uh, this was all—you know, I went to give a talk to a church, I had mentioned it to you. And then, they said, “What do you do?” I said, “I don’t have any work here, but I’m trying to go to school, and I’m gonna do this thing, you know.” And they helped me get a job. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: You know, with the publication. I think it was some sort of religious company or something. But all we were doing is putting things into the envelope and, you know, doing that stuff. And also, some people, they whenever they had a party or something, as a student, they— they just help me out. “Why don’t you come join the party? Even though you may have to wash dishes, but still, you see, we party too.” That’s what we did! Harshaan: Wonderful! That’s really good. Also, just towards the college experience too, that you did that. Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: That’s wonderful. Um so, tell me about the people. I know you said you made a lot of friends; um I’m just wondering if you could elaborate more. Tell me about the people you met here and how your relationships are with them now. Kul: Well, the family—there were two families in Nashville, Tennessee I was very close to. Uh, one, the George’s family. Uh, George family. They didn’t have any kids and while I was there, they adopted a kid. I learned everything, you know, to play with the little kiddies. I wanted to do it because, you know, and then I even learn how to uh change diapers and, you know, that’s a good thing. And that’s—they became very close to me. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: Up, from Nashville, Tennessee, when I graduated from Catholic University, they came for my graduation. Harshaan: Wow! Kul: And all that stuff. Unfortunately, their daughter—they adopted the daughter, she lives in Florida, she has a drug problem. And they had a son who was born to them who is in uh I think Chicago or somewhere. And uh, but uh they both died. And when I came to Blacksburg, there was a family called Pienkowskis. Jody Pienkowski, wife, she was a master’s degree from University of Wisconsin in medicine. Her husband got a PhD from the same university in et—in uh etymology. And he was a professor in another department in Blacksburg. In Virginia Tech. �And she was the artist who was painting and all. And they—they, up until now, I love them, they love me. And I took your [Kul’s wife and kids] to their house, I took them a few times. And they were invited for [Kul’s children’s] wedding. But they said that they were—they got a little too old. And so, they don’t travel anywhere. They didn’t have any kids of their own, so they adopted three kids, two boys and a girl. On the daughter’s wedding, we were there in Asheville, North Carolina. Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: So, we are still very close. And as a matter of fact, uh I’m planning to take [Kul’s grandkids] to spend a weekend over there with them. Harshaan: Oh, that’s wonderful! Kul: Yeah. And they still, as a matter of fact, when Yasmine [Kul’s child] was born, I ask uh, you know, the professor’s name was Bob, Robert. And wife’s name was Jody, Jody Pienkowski. I told them, “Hey, I’m expecting a daughter, uh could you come here,” he had a good camera,” I said, “Could you come to Washington to take some pictures?” They both drove down from Blacksburg here, and when Yasmine was born, they took all the pictures. Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: Yeah, they were that close. And still they are. Harshaan: Yeah, especially from that long ago too. Kul: I know, I know. Harshaan: 50 years now? That’s incredible. Kul: I know, I know! (laughing) Harshaan: That is wonderful though. Um, this question's a little bit subjective, but I’m just curious to hear what you have to say. Um, in the time that you spent from when you came here, so like the seven-year period from when you came here to when you went back to India, what would you say your—some of your greatest successes were? Kul: Greatest what? Harshaan: Successes. Kul: Uh to become a citizen. Uh getting green card. �Harshaan: Okay. Kul: That’s what was, you know, because that was my idea, that was my goal that I successfully do those things. Efficiencies of money, the efficiency of I did not know anybody, but my goal stayed there. I want to be here. I want to plant myself. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: Something like a tree that bears fruit that people enjoy in life. Harshaan: That’s really awesome. Kul: That’s the kind of philosophy I kept in mind and kept working on it. There was a fall, there was a crash, there was a flood. The tree lasted, bared fruit. You don’t see anybody, but this is my thinking, that that’s what I could do it. And that’s why also meeting that kind of people, I selected the field which I wanted to service. Have good living for people in residential communities. And good services by police and fire departments and the hospitals and all those things. And—other than politics (both laugh). I—I felt that I accomplished what I wanted to do. Harshaan: Absolutely. Kul: And I’m very happy. Even, for example, you know after I retired from Fairfax County, that’s where I was, and if anybody calls me and asks for advice, anything to do with zoning and planning. That’s what I want to do. Harshaan: That’s really cool just to hear. (Kul laughs) Um so, on the other side of that, during that period when you moved here to the US to when you went back to India, what would you say are some of the greatest hardships you faced? Kul: In India or here? Harshaan: In the US. Kul: Oh, in the US. Well, uh not having money. I had to find adjustments. I gave lectures [Kul’s video freezes] and did favors for families. I met a person who was an artist and when I was telling those stories, she said, you know okay—I said, “I don’t have much money to do this, this, this.” And then she said, “Okay, would you like to be make some money for whatever I tell you to?” I said, “You say it, and I’ll see what I could do.” She said, “We—I’m an artist and we have art school, we always look for models.” I said, “Huh?” So, I did some modeling. Harshaan: Oh wow. �Kul: And uh only thing was, some—one time they said, “Do you mind taking your clothes off?” You know, they want to do that kind of painting. I said, “No, my underwear is going to stay with me.” And they painted from my belly button up there. And uh I made money from there. When there were parties, I went to parties, washed the dishes, I would pick up all those things. And those things, they really helped me. And again, I never felt, you know, as I’m an educated person I threw away my dignity. No, I’m a human being. And if my hands were dirty, I could wash; if my mind was dirty, I could take a step back and think, wake up, we don’t have very many choices. Harshaan: That’s true, that’s very true. Kul: That’s how I worked it out. Harshaan: That is huge, that’s awesome and very difficult to do all in all. Um so, I know that you said that you brought [your wife] over here when you got married on New Year’s in 1968. Um, I’m just curious, what was that transition like for you and how were you able to adjust from kind of like working to being married and starting a family here? Kul: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, again, I grew up and I knew the system, the way husband and wife are. Right? And I knew the culture here, that people date and then fall in love. In India, they marry and then what should they do, you know? The parents say that. I went with my own philosophy and I practiced it and I’m happy with it. You could get married if you want to, continue good life, fall in love later on. That’s what I did. And this young lady, she’s a Libra and that means that you achieve balance. But it’s give and take. Harshaan: Of course, of course. Kul: And if you don’t give your heart to somebody, how do you expect to get a heart back? That’s love! Harshaan: That’s true. Kul: Exactly! Take any movie, they sing songs about, you know, heart and all that (both laugh). The other day, I was thinking, somebody was saying, you know, “Well, how does the heart make love to each other?” The heart does not have wings to fly to you, the heart matches to your heart even though they don’t talk, but if they click, that’s what life is all about. Harshaan: That is very true. What good wisdom. (Kul laughs) Um, final question: so, part of the reason, you know this, part of the reason my parents are both here is because you actually sponsored them. Um, so I’m just curious, what was the process of sponsoring other people, how is that process like? �Kul: Process in those days, the earlier days, it was very simple. One of the simplest things I’m ever gonna tell you. 1976 my parents came, okay? And they came on a visitor visa, which it was to expire in three months. When the third month came in, we knew that either they do some decision, which I’m going to ask them, or they do their, you know, money, all that stuff. So, I asked my parents, my mother was very outgoing, she had two years college in 1936, my father had a BS in agriculture, right? And my mother, even when she was coming first time here, she wanted to eat American food and not Indian food and my father, “Oh, big deal.” And my mother liked it very much. And especially Yasmine was a little baby at that time and she was very attached. This is the beauty in a female person, because they keep a kid in tummy for nine months, they know how to connect over the years. The, again, the male members of our culture said, “Ah, big deal. Fine. You do this thing and I’ll do this thing.” And that’s what I love, that kind of philosophy. And uh it’s uh, when we were married, we used to get letters from our home, our parents, from my father especially—I’m going to go back to that question you asked also. Is that “Do you have any babies yet?” And we said, “No.” Some other people came to our house from India and they said, “Maybe you should get married again, a man may think that your wife can’t have a baby.” And finally, I always wanted girls based on what I was saying, I like girls whether it’s a mom, whether it’s a sister, whether it’s a niece, or whatever. Or a girlfriend, I like women very much. And I said, “God,” we were expecting first baby, I said, “please God, I want a girl.” I wrote thirty-one names, only girls names. And your auntie agreed with me. We had Yasmine. We then—the second one, we said one is enough, but I said, if this girl needs some help and her husband doesn’t work with her, where is she going to go? To the blood relation. So, then we had [another daughter]. Going back to your question again. Um, repeat the question again. Harshaan: So, the question was that I know you sponsored a lot of people for citizenship in the United States, I’m asking what the process was like and um what you thought of it. Kul: Well, that I said I love people, especially, you know, so—and you were asking about also how was the system. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And when my parents’ third month came in, and I asked my parents—my mother liked it here, you know, as I said earlier. She said, “We’d like to stay.” We applied for it, within two weeks I got them a green card. Harshaan: That’s really quick, I guess when you have— Kul: The system was so easy. But also, they looked at it, I’m a stable person and all that stuff, and we are established, we are citizens, we love it, we adopted the country, and that’s what happened. But then the process went on and on, more people started abusing the system and �that’s why they became harder and harder. In today’s time, you know, if you are Cuba or Mexico or you’re face looks different, you can’t even come. So, it’s very—it was easy. Harshaan: That’s good, that’s good. Um, so this is the final question I have for you, and again, if you don’t want to answer this it’s totally fine, but I’m just curious, because in a historical sense, I know with my parents they came after the attack on the Golden Temple in 1984. Um and as you know, that caused a lot of pretty difficult relations among Sikhs in India where some would just get gunned down in the prison, some would be unlawfully arrested, and a lot of Sikhs feared for their life and turned to terrorist organizations. I’m just curious, did you know of anyone or did that even impact you at all in terms of sponsoring people, in terms of going to India, in terms of other people you knew in India? And if so, how did you react and what did you do in response to that? Kul: Well, I—What I thought was, when I came in, I had hardships. Again, financial and, you know, not knowing anybody. With determination, I’m here. Opportunities are great, opportunities are lesser and lesser every day in India. I start sponsoring. After my parents decided to come then I sponsored—my brother was already sponsored and he was here. Uh from that time onward, [I helped other family]. Then I went on, whoever want to. I counted it one time, who I had gotten the papers done plus they applied and got some of their brothers and sisters: 53 people. Harshaan: Wow. Kul: 53 people. And uh I started it, I started that, you know. Harshaan: All because you were the one who wanted to kind of— Kul: Exactly, that’s what I wanted to do because I believed in it. I cared for them, and not only that, I cared for anybody who could get a good opportunity this country provides for. Why not? Harshaan: Especially after all the hardships that Sikhs— Kul: Exactly. Because we learn through their lesson what really happened. And I was opportunity, you know, look at my opportunity. When I was in India, you know, politicians and all that stuff, and when I was here, Kennedy was visiting Vanderbilt and Peabody College. And I was sitting, you know, all the students were sitting there and he’s sitting in a car and the car is moving in front of us. I raised my hand, “Mr. President, I want to shake hands with you.” You know, like this, I was a student, I had a turban at the time. He tapped on the driver’s shoulder— those are the good times—and the car stopped, and they asked me—ordered me to the car, and I shook hands with him. Harshaan: Oh wow. �Kul: And I felt so good. I know that he was also a great person. And even this thing, hey, me $7.20 in my pocket, came in all that stuff, look what I can do. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: That is the beautiful part of this world. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And I’m not saying the other countries are not that good. Mankind, when they start thinking, what is good for human beings. For safety, welfare, and continuity, and togetherness, that’s what really is the most important part. And you don’t get that if you don’t love life you are living. Harshaan: That is very true. Um, that is all the questions I have written. But before I end the recording is there anything that you’d like to add in terms of your own experience or what you’ve noticed from others or anything else you’d like to comment on? Kul: Well, I feel—I feel good for change that help me with the help of God. I believe in it too. My parents, my grandmother, my Mama Ji, and others, and other people must’ve loved me. I came here, people I never knew, they loved me. My love made me another form of person. I cherish it, I will cherish it, I will promote it, anybody who get the opportunity to be something that, not only where they live or which country and all that, but whatever they want to do, wherever they want to do, come with a open heart, open mind, expand your hands, give your heart to everybody. Whether you speak one word or not of “I love you,” it is already injected in that person. As long as we do this to everybody, this is life I wish for everybody. I feel so happy, all the people I love, they’re here. Though they’re not here, I love humankind, humanbeings. And I will always wish all of you the best, safest, and peaceful life. That’s all I—I don’t know. Let me get my napkin. Oh gosh (crying). Harshaan: Thank you so much for sharing your entire story though. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2020 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Harshaan Grewal Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Kul Sandhu Location The location of the interview Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MP3, MP4, docx, png Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Kul Sandhu Description An account of the resource <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4bTG--Pj3s">Use this link to view the video of the interview.</a> <br /><br />This interview between Harshaan Grewal and Kul Sandhu discusses Kul’s immigration from India to the US, as well as Kul’s family, marriage, school, and philosophies of life. Kul talks about political and religious conflict he and his family experienced in India. Kul also speaks about convincing his family to let him move to the US, the way in which his grandmother advocated for him to move, as well as eventually sponsoring his family to become US citizens themselves. <br /><br />This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2020). This course was led by Professor Robert Chiles of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Harshaan Grewal Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3, MP4, png Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History education friendship Green Card India marriage Punjab Sikh sponsor https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/bfa20ca741ee2154add39d0db5248ebc.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=XDNcIBSQ1t%7Emzxm0digss09JSsHXiphZNXnaXtG2Rg24qoBsy96iON-ZFYl%7E3UHH0QzuMXJt3ju7-eqDEwZJTEt1BZVvbwmTrdNJQ7iFK2mt5ngO9uJbvusxGoY-zLAfZpDwuVLGmzgaaTQQuDVcV-U1LWzVBlKVenGQ75NH9GiwAUAmycfrAP36L7vRaVqe0JAEQsXZ9zRNdCKB8r0183odC3rLa3qu85Fwim1kv2APat%7EB2u9cmpqR2%7ECsDnKbDgloTVM2TpDymb3d3KgncIt3oahXSkRBYQTjfMCiQ-Um9%7EPSXRpGiIq%7Eefhe0qvWpxM9rlszoHWhkmZT6moD2Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2020 Interviews Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Maurice Tchasso Description An account of the resource This interview between Elsa Tchasso and Maurice Tchasso explores Maurice's immigration journey to the United States. Maurice talks about his life in his native country and the reasons that pushed him to immigrate in the US. He later on describes the immigration process and his life in the US. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2020). This course was led by Professor Robert Chiles of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Paulette Elsa Tchasso Madzo Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 12, 2020 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History asylee Cameroon Citizenship culture family food Green Card politics visa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6cb37ab343720f9c7c89207c0b9abccb.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=WT3xyCGjPDXHIeLyam0FuViFF6h8rz6iv2DYverev6C8m8g6q%7EIHQ9sWQ0KqKLLWK3u8JBfFY3AsC7vaaaD%7E9lF7zVfpMg-HJJL4q%7Ey04IxYlAIzvur31NNx3MgM1i5ZEzAmRfGU-kIZ%7ElR95oZKAWGLTokuyVZ6dXvYX6dwXn0d573BNEKCpA4piUKSZ1KE5Ls8f0vuFH9I7vxcBs4SBDMa9Mn2K1tZUWGYuWHo7JeQcimZIWsjB9ciUQtLxSld5k6No18XKpmT35juWXFOvF-IUaEBpyMIdsBfYj49sNWr3adg8u9gUxXv8n2DtKjZS-uMmBxSGRaL6ruUFJtVtA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b23041ba2937cc49bc57f7c67593efc6.mp4?Expires=1779926400&Signature=W3ClSXBFyPgWsqCkeiETi-m4lbOCTlN-R8nFegmyNBoMlIc-1nJfjB4YMJvkmTguuhgBMjkzkQ2vbHSN2L866pVlDVDrL6Kx0VrXo-CHn%7ERX4QBodDunJEaRRUtfhqHlmqoGlHKoA1k40m1N%7E6%7EyGzGBNw2G7IOYvxMGTAgqtaERx49MZ97DPlGmjfTfpWmCAQNFQcPy0ePWV1TH3oQzizV%7E2xn95RvPmyFLa%7ElHypDF8iLUT0cBPhRTuKZdRPlw0Kk2xzUq4aU8lQxmRDBKST0BQOjTRvGCvPZZRH8KX8ZsC4mzt4kl1quZavsMYV3iKKGy7B1ZS5avWNqypcKQ6w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM dc2451fd07ef76535be3c91f0b4379a4 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/65a06e10da2eeefa9ac0eb6f246ef361.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=XKqjAoTMCaYlfH7nHlxmjq9x2-OzhG1jEO5psFj2oEx5%7ERtXgLiqA7Z-pmazM%7EIBOIIv91I05ndsNsQhRzQQ9A1pZQ6l8hGixtlK6g3ExV5MfqA%7E2UDZGxOxTHnqqkqrwe2WDmb3vOpYmQEMvQj93lMybUc2LiST60bplNQRwiY0lbvnj%7EwEiHPjBViF8NMBVUNUbbI8snhNj913h0V73Yq9akGtpQzOdQkJzrDLuQrOL8HAgnjvmKDnOn9NyaOTUtX26YOn7bFwC61n3Iuto8EPyB3Sh0UW-Hqbyo%7EBq7lsas4k%7EmuLkchdXHh4DTxnMcrgCLnTfb%7EhjGrBH6ViKA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM e59e5e51283015245049d2dec80f23cd PDF Text Text Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course IMMR 400 – Spring 2020 Instructor: Dr. Robert Chiles Interviewers’ (Student’s) name: Elvira Nnodim Interviewee’s name: Ana Saravia Interviewee’s Country of Origin: El Salvador Interviewee’s Current Resident: Hyattsville, Maryland, 20783 Date of Interview: April 24th, 2020 Place of Interview: Prince George’s County, Maryland, U.S.A. Introduction: This interview between Elvira Nnodim and Ana Saravia explores her experience as an immigrant from El Salvador. Ana speaks about the stark contrast of her life here in America compared to that of El Salvador. In her native country, she really couldn’t pursue education like she wanted to and also was not given much guidance by the people close to her. Here in America, she is grateful that there are many ways to advance yourself and that there is lots of support for women who have fallen on hard times or need help. She’s grateful that she is allowed to be independent in America and achieve her goals without the help of a man. This interview includes Yocelin, Ana’s daughter, who translates from Spanish to English for Ana and Elvira. The transcript is not written verbatim, but rather it is a summation of what Ana says to Yocelin and Elvira. Keywords: El Salvador, green card, support, assimilation, culture, education, dreams, customs Elvira: Alright, hi, good evening. Yocelin [translator]: Hello? Elvira: Yeah. Hi Yocelin’s mom, good evening. �Ana: Good evening. [redacted information] Elvira: Okay, so I’m gonna start off with the first question. Um and the first question is: when and where were you born? Ana: I was born in El Salvador February 6th, 1970. Elvira: Wow! My mom was also born in 1970. She’s gonna be 50 in December! Yocelin: Yeah! That’s true, she’s 49. Elvira: Wow, that’s really cool. Yocelin: It is. Elvira: Alright, um the next question is: what was life like for you growing up there? Like your family life, schooling, or the community that you grew up in? Ana: I was raised in a very naïve and foreign country. I was living aimlessly with no vision of the future. Elvira: Okay um, the— Ana: Without goals, just living, basically just existing. Elvira: Mm-hm. Okay um, what was your fondest memories growing up and why? Ana: My experience back at home was not good. I was raised without education, without values, without principles, and just living to help my mom. Elvira: Mm-hm. Ana: I was unable to succeed in my education or academically because the school was very far from where I lived and it would take an hour or two hours away, and I would have to go by foot. And that was one of my excuses of why I was unable to attend school. I also got bullied at school because I used to wear a veil and my classmates used to pull on it and make fun of me. So, that is why I was unable to finish my education. Elvira: Oh my god, I feel so bad. Yocelin: Yeah, me too honestly, but it’s okay, she’s strong. Elvira: Mm-hm. �Yocelin: She’s—yeah. Elvira: Okay, um the next question is when did you move to the United States and how old were you when this happened? Ana: I migrated to the States around 1994-1995 and I was 23. Elvira: Okay. Alright, um number five: did you have any preconceived notions about America before you came here? Ana: I had an idea that coming to the States you’re able to get a better opportunity or a second chance in life but I didn’t take advantage of that opportunity. Elvira: Gotcha, okay um. Number si— Does she have more to add? She can also— Ana: The first thing I did was get pregnant with you [Yocelin]. Elvira: Oh my god. [redacted] Elvira: Okay, so number six: can you describe for me like your experience of coming to America and what made you want to stay here? Ana: I decided to stay here because this is where I had all my children and I knew back home there weren’t better opportunities for me or my kids. My journey to the States was very calm. I didn’t have to experience any sexual abuse or any other kind of abuse. But I do remember having to walk day and night in order to make it to the border. Elvira: Mm-hm alright um thank you for that. Um number seven is: when you first came to America, did you experience any culture shocks? Ana: I did experience a culture shock. When I came to the States, I noticed that women in America were so independent. That they’re able to live on their own, able to have jobs, able to have cars, and careers — something that I did not get to experience back home because I never had to work outside of my home. Coming to the States I was unable to experience that emancipation. I immediately found Yocelin’s dad and that dream of mine was not fulfilled — becoming independent and things like that. Basically, I brought that custom from my own country to my marriage here in the United States. Elvira: Gotcha! Okay um, number eight is: do you remember the first thing you saw when you came to America? Ana: I saw a restaurant. I also came across this park that’s located in D.C. �Elvira: Cool. Alright. It’s so cool that you remember that far. You really have good memory. Yocelin: Yeah, she does. Elvira: Okay, number nine: what was your first job and how long did you work there for? An: My first job was being a dishwasher. I had to wash a lot of dishes and the manager took advantage of the fact that I didn’t have many proper skills or any working skills so he demanded that I wash this huge boiling pot. And because I told him no, it’s too hot, I’m gonna burn my hand, he decided to dismiss me. I lasted for less than a year. Elvira: Wow, he was very petty! What? Yocelin: He was, but luckily her aunt was able to go back to the restaurant and I wouldn’t say sue the guy, but she was able to get some money because of what occurred. Elvira: I’m glad she did. Yocelin: Yeah. Elvira: Alright, the next question is: besides Maryland, did you live anywhere else? Ana: I have lived all of my 24 years since coming to the United States, in Maryland. Elvira: Gotcha. Alright, can you tell me how you decided on coming to Maryland and what was your first impression of the state? Ana: When I first arrived in the States, I was staying at an aunt’s house that lived in Maryland. And then, a year after, I met Yocelin’s dad who lived in Maryland, so that’s why I decided to stay in Maryland. It’s okay, it’s not that I really like it, but it was kind of like it decided for itself. Elvira: Gotcha. Okay um, can you tell me what the process was like for you receiving your green card and your status as a legal resident in Maryland? Ana: I already had my working permit and then I got married to Yocelin’s dad so he was able to help me out with my residency and to get my green card. My process wasn’t that long. Elvira: Alright, cool, um. The next question is: how often you travel back to El Salvador and what is it like for you to when you go back to visit? Yocelin: I actually know that question, well, the answer by heart. She hasn’t gone to El Salvador since she came to the United States. Ana: No, I haven’t gone. �Elvira: Alright. Um, has there been a moment where you felt like the United States felt like home to you? Ana: I feel like this is my home because I have more benefits and more opportunities to better myself and I plan on retiring here in the United States because I don’t have anything with my name back home. Elvira: Gotcha, okay um— Yocelin: Oh wait, I think she’s going to get some chocolate, sorry. My sister has been bugging her. [silence cut out of recording] Yocelin: Okay, my mom is here now. Hello? Elvira: Yeah. Alright, mom, um okay. If you don’t mind, can you explain what you do now and what your life is like presently in America? Yocelin: That’s funny because we were having this conversation not too long ago. Ana: This country is blessed because we’re able to have health insurance, we’re able to have opportunities to certain jobs, opportunities to careers, opportunities to better yourself. And that’s something you cannot find back in my home country. But of course, there’s still a lot of pressure because I still have to manage a job, school, raising kids, but overall, it’s a blessing. Elvira: Okay, um the next question is: what do you think is the most important thing you’ve learned about yourself through your experience here and why? Ana: What I’ve learned about myself is that I was able to get a lot of support from organizations or from other women going through the same lifestyle or abuse. I love that when I’m ready, I’m able to go and triumph on my goals without the need of anyone else but myself. Elvira: That’s great, I love it. Um, the next question is: are there any traditions from your home country that you still currently/or used to practice? Ana: Whenever I eat, I have to make sure that I have my stack of tortillas. And making sure that the house is clean and well taken care of. Elvira: Great. Um okay, next one: is there anything that you miss from El Salvador that you still think about? Ana: I do miss my dishes from back home. They can’t compete with the dishes that they have here in the United States. �Elvira: No doubt! Home has the best food, I mean. There’s no comparison. Alright, um next question is: was there anything that made you feel pressured to Americanize yourself? Ana: Learning English. It’s something new to me so I did feel pressured to learn English. Elvira: Yeah, I can feel that. Especially when you’re here as, I guess a grade school level? Because I remember I was pressured to take ESOL in elementary and middle school, so I can feel her feeling pressured to learn English. Yocelin: Yeah, that’s true. Elvira: Okay, next question is: did you speak any English before you came here? Ana: “I don’t know.” That was the only thing that I learned, to say, “I don’t know.” Elvira: Okay. Alright, um next thing is: do you think that being an immigrant and coming to a country that’s not your own and living here, has that made you more accepting of people of other cultures or other immigrants in general? Ana: Yeah. Elvira: Okay, um the next question is: do you feel like you had to push away your own Hispanic culture or did you mesh both American and Hispanic culture? Ana: I had to mesh my culture with the American culture. Elvira: Do you mind giving examples if you have any? Ana: I’ve never had grapes or lettuce when in El Salvador, so in my food, I mix grapes and lettuce in my plate. Elvira: Ooh, that actually sounds good right now. Yocelin: Yeah, grapes and lettuce, it does. Okay, she has this kind of like, stereotype, hang on. Ana: Another one is that when I go grocery shopping, say Giant or Safeway, I like to, not stalk, but to go behind someone that’s American and see what kind of things they get. I do this because I’m thinking that this person knows a bit more of good things here in the United States than I do. Elvira: Alright. But that’s actually kind of funny though. Yocelin: I’ve seen her. It’s like we’re going down the aisle. “She’s getting almond milk, should we get almond milk too?” I’m like “No mom! I don’t want almond milk!” Elvira: That is so funny! �Yocelin: It is. Or like if someone gets one of those plain cereal boxes, she’s like, “Oh wait, we should get that too!” I’m like “No mom, I want something else.” Elvira: Imagine her getting cornflakes because somebody else is getting cornflakes and you wanted like cocoa puffs. Yocelin: Exactly, and it’s funny because she has this notion, “Okay this person knows a bit better than I do, so I’d rather just get what he’s getting.” Elvira: Alright, um I have one more question after this one, and it is: what do you hope that people take away from this interview of you telling me more about your country? Ana: Coming as an immigrant to the United States, it’s never too late to start over and want to better yourself. And you just have to put in that determination to do so. Elvira: Wow, that is great! Alright, last question for your mom is um: is there anything else you would like for me to add? Or you would like to tell me? Ana: People in the United States who have better education treat others fairly, well, with the people I’ve encountered. People who have higher education have treated me with more respect compared to those that didn’t. Yocelin: Yeah, that’s about it. Elvira: Alright. I just wanna say thank you to your mom. [redacted] Ana: You’re welcome. I’m glad that I can help. Elvira: So, this is the end of the interview with me, Yocelin, and her mom. She [Yocelin] was helping me to translate what her mom was saying from Spanish to English. So, I’m going to end it now. Again, thank you Yocelin and I’ll speak to you guys soon. Yocelin: Alright, thank you. Enjoy the rest of your day. I’m glad we were able to help. Elvira: Yup, Goodnight. Yocelin: Goodnight, bye-bye. Elvira: Bye. This is the end of the interview with Elvira, Yocelin (translator) and her mom. ______________________________________________________________________________ �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2020 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Elvira Nnodim Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ana Saravia Location The location of the interview Prince George’s County, Maryland, U.S.A. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data docx, MP3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Ana Saravia Description An account of the resource This interview between Elvira Nnodimand Ana Saravia explores her experience as an immigrant from El Salvador. Ana speaks about the stark contrast of her life here in America compared to that of El Salvador. In her native country, she really couldn’t pursue education like she wanted to and also was not given much guidance by the people close to her. Here in America, she is grateful that there are many ways to advance yourself and that there is lots of support for women who have fallen on hard times or need help. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2020). This course was led by Professor Robert Chiles of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Elvira Nnodim Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 24, 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP4, PDF Language A language of the resource English, Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History assimilation culture education El Salvador Green Card https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/a7a499fd172d9b3f54d2f6828eabd6c8.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=VAqjcrk2%7ECN4AjBTEJu39O7HlNWr7ZbKvrvBAnwbWOf%7ErvTeNBfP4DS6W4eatTibRj7ATJKE4DuhevuRWfPUg6mpRWCcQei1dbgjqVG-ZV0U5r1wALeaPJuhhjRQD51RVEvqpRNkzXxX3gwGbrOti2KXzSOD15HuoE0jVJJfC8fpiIU4Ag8Lah-HyB6btrh33NQdvSpCNG3ua0gDQXthNDV%7EuSog6hiabdnSXbTJON0eNEPXUdpJVxknY0-k5GdoubsZXnMOyPYzqlX5B2ZCinpWAIZdUM%7EP3ZqpxhBm%7EaSWHoHmSahxtLb%7EsaijojAJgsv-wuaOGdrH8I3IH6YApA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/da931a71a4e49263e522c9223c07b90c.mp3?Expires=1779926400&Signature=iY1KZTtfE6wK17tNzwr7HRO3JzmF6EXbv5PuEJIkggLpFL9BZccDWNso4%7Em7pTzC9CXo-PTFlMNMtUNZ%7EjKSPU7nYwmkWppyomj5zKKVaZowwETG-r1l%7Ed18axP7Aw7DbSx8jvrCzjQvgAOcXjAMNqGe0b25GDhnYbSYSjPr9KVlQCvBAs2cS--y8A6fwQQVxb3Ag0vRz3gpE9zTMKcYKjK0jUVytZlfSpMiORZNrGMl6VjPr%7E1Kbu4zaJHk8jI5ndVI1FQHD6sXjZ0%7EhcQwYApSZnt6tHmif9Kwk-eERHLw2FkuuizPxUiJToL8ZwSI%7EvHQnpg3sZmgXhnP02Mcyw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 686596598e19a42824f629111ea6e4e7 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/cf9969bd8af4e11858842bfcb741093b.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=c-tUB%7EDtdkqiCPcaPdI0c-5dmQ1MkLkr-AMBIhXyX00LWcEtmf7fl1PKcjZqeLH3wgZVf4%7EPux2DT8qI3tMCO%7E7OiOUqzAnbLXGXn7CMdC95Lh8dQtRw1JHIwzuga2v03DKci2P7OXJRXE0ValLMlc3rl6sxRWShI4CypTzXtch9-HMf2IWh18BwjmUtDhDZjcL5NiFKdLnCjVnS-xvFXgATp5uN%7EmhKSI%7EF8z0ElTULsUNNAUVjWc-X8OCYn9vMF26Lcikoi8foW9W%7ErLFjFL3-rbhxeY%7EDmZOY5FGgPboASuGYmB44szQAF9nZt6srf-vXIgbP16Js%7EqRUqruOXQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 690a229953be2e9785a4277f348278e3 PDF Text Text Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course IMMR 400 – Spring 2020 Instructor: Dr. Robert Chiles Interviewer’s (Student’s) name: Retu Domnic Interviewee’s name: Nallathambi Domnic Interviewee’s Country of Origin: India Interviewee’s Current Residence: Denton, Caroline County, Maryland, United States Date of Interview: April 28, 2020 Place of Interview: Denton, Caroline County, Maryland, United States Introduction: This interview between Retu Domnic and Nallathambi Domnic goes in depth on what the immigration process was like for Nallathambi Domnic and his family. Nallathambi Domnic is a 52-year-old Indian American who was born in India on September 23, 1967. He then moved to Bahrain in 1991 in order to provide for his family back in India. He met his wife in 1992 back in Bahrain as they were working for the same company. They then had their child in 1999 and migrated to the United States of America in 2003. Nallathambi’s dream was provide the best education for his child and he believed the American school system was the best. He also wanted better job opportunities for his line of work which would be possible in America. Keywords: India, Tamil, assimilation, biculturalism, green card, visa, culture, Asia, race, immigration, family, Indian, jobs �Retu Domnic: My name is Retu Domnic and today I will be interviewing Nallathambi Domnic who is an immigrant and also my dad. Can you please introduce yourself? Nallathambi Domnic: My name is Nallathambi Domnic. Retu: Okay, and we can go ahead and start with the questions. Um so, what was it like back home? Nallathambi: I am [part of] a family of six. I am the fourth member of the family, like uh after my father’s retirement from a government company, I was the only bread winner for my––the whole family, so I had to come out of the country to earn a living. So, I was working in Bahrain for almost like 12 years then, then I thought I could migrate to U.S. for the better fortune and prospects. Well, my daughter was born in Bahrain, like so we left Bahrain around 2003 June when my daughter was 2 and a half years old. The main reason for us to come to U.S. was uh for better prospects and uh my daughter’s education because we were in the Gulf, the education was not much to do after your high school graduation you have to look for a new college elsewhere so that’s a reason we thought we could move to U.S. Retu: So how was it possible for you to come to America, like what was that like? Nallathambi: When my daughter was born in Bahrain, I just was browsing, that’s the introduction of the new internet system, so I was just browsing all the companies in U.S. in my field what I was working for. And uh I got an opportunity to just apply for a few of them, maybe around 20 or 25. On that 6 responded and 3 were very much interested in me, hiring. So, I just went through the process. During that time one of my brother-in-law was in New Jersey who used to help me out during the immigration process with the lawyers. Then um the––the company which I came for, the—the boss was very accommodating and helpful in during the process so it’s a long process to come to U.S. So, we have to file a H1B visa to––other then––I mean to say it’s an employment visa to get into the country. So, we applied, and it took almost 6 or 7 months to go through the process and I got it approved. That’s––that’s the reason I’m here today. �Retu: Okay, so what did you have when you first came to America, like did you have any like money or like valuables? Nallathambi: No when we started from Bahrain, we had to leave everything there. Like uh we couldn’t bring much only rather than some U.S. dollars, like we converted everything there and brought around $2,000. The rest we started from the scratch here, all the housing and things like that when we [I] started new job. So, we started from the scratches. Retu: So, were you the only person working in your family at the time, when you first came to America? Nallathambi: Yeah, the visa, H1B is only granted for uh me, and my wife and daughter were [my] dependent. In other words, uh it’s called H1B and the dependents are H4. H4 visa, the people are not eligible to work, so. And my wife was uh––she is a master’s degree holder and uh unfortunately, she was not eligible to work. Um so, she used to be my de––she was legally here, me and my daught––she and my daughter, but my wife couldn’t work because of the immigration policy. For almost ten years until my status––not status, I mean the immigration policy changed, my wife uh couldn’t work legally anywhere. Being [having] a master’s in accounts, she couldn’t—she got a job, but she couldn’t work legally. She used to do all the voluntary work in the church, local community and she was doing the tax preparation for AARP voluntarily without any monetary benefits. So almost ten years, then uh like in around um 2014 or ‘15 I think the immigration passed a law like uh that dependants can work like who are fighting for their permanent residence, um and that is still uh on process like the dependents can work. So there, after that only, Retu and my wife, Anne, got their work permits. Retu: So, what was it like when you first arrived to America? You mentioned that your brotherin-law helped you? So, was he like a part of settling you in or how was it like first coming here? �Nallathambi: In 2003 June, I just landed in uh JFK, that was in New York, but my work was in Maryland, Denton, Maryland. But I happened to meet my brother-in-law in the airport who drove me to New Jersey. So, from there we used to commute because initially we did not have a house, I used to just come and go on a weekly basis, just see the places. First, eh I bought a––I got a room in a—in a Countryside Inn for a week and I stayed there and uh go to work then slowly, slowly tried to get a rented place where I work. Then finally after a month I moved my family here. ‘Till then they were living in my brother in law’s house in New Jersey. Uhm. Retu: So, when you settled down in Denton did you join a community of other Indians or did you join a different community? Nallathambi: In Denton we don’t have much Indian community, so we had our local church community where we part––we have active participation and—and my wife used to do lot of voluntary work in the church, so we got involved in the local community as church. Retu: So, do you wish that was different, like do you wish there were more Indians where you lived? Nallathambi: Yeah of course I wish, but fortunately or unfortunately I got a job in Denton, Maryland (laughing), so I––because when I come to the country, I cannot just skip job anywhere as I want because the immigration policy is such, I have to get a sponsorship or an employer to sponsor me to get––‘till I get my green card. So, I had to work for certain companies or a certain employer. Retu: Is there anything you regret about that? Like coming and working for like one company? Nallathambi: Yeah of course I regret because, usually we like to live in a––with our own community, like the Indian community, but unfortunately, I did not get an opportunity to mingle because all I––if I have to mingle, I have to go drive out like one and a half to two hours away, to just to get along with the Indian community that was not possible every time. So yeah, I do regret for coming and �joining in Denton, Maryland (laughing). And I also regret that my wife, uh being a master’s graduate, could not be employed uh to support me (clears throat) for almost ten years she was just doing some volunteer work in the church and helping the local AAR––AARP for the tax returns and all she used to do in the library. Other than that, there was no monetary benefits, which was difficult when a child like Retu was growing up, like she couldn’t do much in a monetary, only my earnings were the only thing, it was tough for us because just we moved from another country, and we have to start from the scratch with one employment we had really a tough time but we just managed. Retu: Do you think if Retu would have grown up with the Indian community that she would have grown up differently? Or like–– Nallathambi: Yeah, of course she would’ve gone different uh ideas and getting along with friends because now she is isolated when she meets any of our Indian friends, where she has to get into the groove to learn more things because whatever we learn at home is different from the community. So yeah, she was really lacking of that kind of uh involvement with the community, yeah. Retu: So, do you want your child to assimilate into American culture, keep your roots, or both? Nallathambi: I like to do both, as Retu is doing from the beginning. My wife also had the same idea of doing both. She put her in different ballet classes and the American dances and also simultaneously she taught the Indian classical dance, Bharatanatyam, which she is also learning and uh, as for the dances, even the culture we like to mingle with other Indian community and the American culture also. So, I prefer to do both for Retu. Retu: So, did you ever visit or like go back to your home country? Nallathambi: Yea the H1B visa its uh—it’s uh, validity of the visa is like six years, so within that six years, the employer has to file for a green card, the permanent residence, so through the employment process. Then in the meantime, once it’s approved �then I could stay longer, so during my fourth year, almost––first, every three years we have—like for six years term, like three years we have to renew our visa, the H1B. So, we have to go outside the country to stamp the visa and come back. So that’s what I did like in 2007, ‘06 I think, April, we had to go out of U.S. to India, to get it stamped for the renewal. So, I filed the renewal from the old company, and I left the country, so the papers were in the immigration for the renewal process. So, once I went to India my––the old boss where I was working for, he withdrew the petition because he ran out of business so unfortunately, he has to–– the business was not going good, so he was rel––he was uh liable to me, like when I come back, he has to give an employment. He was selling—wanted to sell the company so he withdrew the petition which I filed for. That if he would’ve done here, I would’ve gotten another job and got a sponsorship but since I left the country, I––I––there’s no means of coming back because the visa was expired, I was there for the renewal to stamp the new visa on the passport and come back. So, when he withdrew the petition, I––I got stuck. I couldn’t come back, so I had to look for another. Because Retu was studying at the time, she had just uh finished her schooling in April, and we had to come back for the next uh year, beginning like before like from August or something, but we couldn’t come because I was not having a job then I found a job in New York, through one of my friends and I uh got it. So, the immigration process took almost six/ seven months to get it approved. So, finally we came back on 2007, February. We left the country on April 2006 and came back around 2007 February. So almost seven months we were in India, just doing the––getting a job and filing for the immigration. So, it was a tough time for us, because whether we are coming back, we were not aware, we were not sure of it. So finally, we came back in 2007 February. Retu: Does that make you frust––frustrated with like the whole immigration process? Nallathambi: Yeah, of course uh it was uh, too much frustrating because I got a job, but the paperwork took––filing through the—through attorney to the immigration, it took almost seven months to get. Because the employer said it’s okay, I—I have a job, �but to go through the process it almost took seven months to get it approved. Yeah, it’s really frustrating because uh I was not working for seven months, I couldn’t work there or here, so it was tough time for me and my family. Retu: So, do you think you working in New York for that amount of time had an effect on your family? Nallathambi: Yes, of course because I used to come home only on the weekends, I couldn’t do much for the support the family, just only earn. All the things was taken care of by my wife for the daughter like schooling, uh going taking her around for all this community work and things like that. It was tough on me, just being there for the whole week, coming only for the weekend. And also, it took a lot of toll on my wife’s health too. She couldn’t––that’s the reason we lost her. She used to care more for the family and do stuff and don’t––did not care much for her health, and wouldn’t say anything that she had issues, because of the situations. Yeah, I wish uh if the immigration policy was good when we come to the country, we can go anywhere as we want to work. We were lacking on––I was lacking on that. So, I couldn’t come look for loc––another job locally where I could commute every day from home. I––I stayed in New York for the job. That’s the reason like uh, it was tough for us the whole family for almost ten years ‘till we got the green card. Retu: Would you ever want to migrate back to India? Nallathambi: No, not at this point because when we came here uh my wife was––the second reason to come here one was my wife was having breast cancer when Retu was like two years old. And uh she had a mastectomy on her left breast. Then we thought we could do for a better treatment here, so that’s also another reason to come to U.S. Yeah, she was doing good like every year we used to have a thorough check up but uh another time, like around 2013 she had another lumpectomy in her other breast and yeah. It was tough for us like uh whenever these things happen, and finally in 2000––2019, September, she––we lost her. Unfortunately, she had another, the cancer had spread all over her body and it was �so severe and she was under treatment but we never expected this would happen, but unfortunately, we lost her and at this point I don’t think I could migrate back to India, because with all this situation we came across here, we like to live here. Retu: So, if you didn’t have your green card and your like permanent residency um and you were still under H1 visa would you––would it be different like then would you want to migrate back? Nallathambi: Yes, of course because no point in just staying every––working for three, three years extension because it costs more money for the renewal and also its very tough to like with the salaries we have, unless we have a green card or permanent resident, yeah. Retu: So, do you feel you are treated unfairly in America because of your race? Nallathambi: Uh yeah, I feel sometimes because, of course, I’ve been treated differently but indirectly, in other words like uh I did my degree back home, I didn’t do my education here and it all matters here because after I got my green card I was trying to apply to a lot of companies for the same pose what I worked for, but there are lot of vacancies around but you know it all depends, like it’ll come to the final phase of the interview and they’ll drop you off because I don’t have a education here. I did only, like back home, all my educations are––since I didn’t do that’s a––I feel that’s the main point for me to be dropped off, or so I am lacking with that kind of situation, so yeah, I do feel that. Its uh––since I have been come from India it all matters. Uh they say it’s like uh, it’s, what to say, like yeah. I feel the discrimination is still going on. In my case I could really feel it because of the employment. Uh everywhere I go I really been treated that. I don’t know how long, but now I have been in a better place to work. Retu: Other than like getting jobs, have––have you experienced like getting treated unfairly like in everyday life? �Nallathambi: Yeah, everyday life, actually even the job I say, like I—I am from the––I was the project manager in a sign company where I worked, all my years almost 20, 25 years, but now I work for a retail company because I have not been given a job, like what I was, in the local companies where I live around. Retu: That you are qualified for? Nallathambi: Qualified for. I am not getting it so I have to go to another field, start from the scratch, it takes lot of time and effort to come back and start a new job but situation is there, that’s what uh–– Retu: So along with that, um your wife, was she––like her education was it like banking? Nallathambi: No, she was basically an accountant, master’s degree––master’s in accounts but she also, the same way I’ve been treated, like wherever she goes, “Oh you have a beautiful like education,” “You are qualified,” but when it comes to the final thing, they say, “We are sorry,” because it’s all about––it’s kind of a discrimination because they don’t give a job since she has not done her education here. And finally, she ending up getting a job as a bank teller being an accountant so that’s really unfair, but what to do, we have to survive, we have to get a job so she was working there for almost four years. Retu: So, in the future, do you think like things will change and people will not be discriminated against? Nallathambi: Yeah, of course I do believe because it all depends on the immigration policy because once the people come to know about––because nobody’s aware of this kind of situation, locally. Unless if we’re in of course in New York City or Jersey or Washington, Baltimore, you see people coming under H1B on a regular basis, people are aware, but locally, like Denton, Maryland nobody is aware what is H1B. So, unless people come to know what we are, because they think that we are just coming to the country and getting their jobs, it’s not like that. We have been qualified and we are––H1B is a speciality occupation job, so immigration will not �just approve a job, or we come here just like that. They––it goes almost six, seven months for the process. So, they filter all the things and then give an approval. So, when these things come up to the higher level, I think everybody comes to know what we are, and the discrimination automatically goes down and people respect, it’s not a kind of respect, at least we could get along with people freely as the others do. Retu: How did you hold on to your culture or like what have you done to hold on to your culture? Nallathambi: Just doing the basic as we did from the childhood. There’s nothing new for the culture to, we have already been used to it. So, we just came here like ten years back, but only thing we tried to––me and my wife tried to implement all these local, like the culture towards Retu because she was growing as a kid, uh the more thing is we used to take her to a lot of Indian um gatherings and friends and families we move around and also watch the international channels from the––the back home channels to keep her more uh involved in the cultural activities. And also teaching her the cultural dance which she is now doing uh every year recital on that uh dances, so. Retu: So, finally, what do you hope people will gain from your story? Nallathambi: Yeah, the main thing people will come to know is like the process of the legal immigrant and the illegal immigrant. As we know, in America there are so many illegal people coming to this country. And once they get a case filed on their name, and within like three––two to three months they get their all facilities like food stamps, medical, everything is government––okay, of course they pay back when they get a job, but—but legally when people come in, there are so much restrictions. We don’t have any––only thing we get is salary we get paid for the work we do. Apart from that we don’t get any benefits like uh especially for the dependents, even if they are sick or anything, we have to go on our own to get medical facilities and stuff like that. But now, of course things have changed. I’m �talking about like ten years back. It was so tough, we did not have any insurance in the company, we were not given. So, when we come here, we just work and take––and we pay taxes as a regular local Americans do, but—but uh the benefits, we don’t have anything as an immigrant. We’ve gone through a lot. Because with one salary, it was not enough for the whole thing to go. Um it was really tough on us. With my story, I just conclude saying that in future maybe the immigration policy can be more friendly towards the immigrants. Thank you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2020 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Retu Domnic Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nallathambi Domnic Location The location of the interview Deton, Caroline County, Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data doc, MP3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Nallathambi Domnic Description An account of the resource This interview between Retu Domnic and NallathambiDomnic goes in depth on what the immigration process was like for Nallathambi Domnic and his family. Nallathambi Domnic is a 52-year-old Indian American who was born in India on September 23, 1967. He then moved to Bahrain in 1991 in order to provide for his family back in India. He met his wife in 1992 back in Bahrain as they were working for the same company. They then had their child in 1999 and migrated to the United States of America in 2003. Nallathambi’s dream was provide the best education for his child and he believed the American school system was the best. He also wanted better job opportunities for his line of work which would be possible in America. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2020). This course was led by Professor Robert Chiles of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Retu Domnic Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 28, 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Asia assimilation culture family Green Card H1B India jobs race visa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/864e2fe6da98d2c16d68d9fddc2ea530.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=VxcTn5avafNPldJZm2d0tddLIvg9Xyu9xwjWYivMNpZKmBbBVGjX5tzig3fnOCFLcgOftQ7tq8jBc0pu8E4ES0ytdrO%7Ez8QtAdtM546eyVJmBeOWovbW1hAEGm7UjaMA3tKwotLVNocucaMyfrUdIyjqm-BdYEedNYpnppTvU69K0q2N3rdPzshR5Xf-uw5K9KCqGOSFxSAE-eRDOSm0GBrjX-Au-yfpbeA9eOdSfR7%7EVeU7H7%7E-fXmA7P1b4DBL0lpjoIhqTNeJ%7ErCCRyOs76mNMC2LQSNAvHQdhUR537n6MuRIyulm9QfsCKrDGE6wCawNBy7SVTbqKheojPTzfA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 8981cefa9890fcd06f8c44dcee40cd52 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/e59de507eb6e0e207798ece1197506a7.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=VLBQc3ITGH2K9BFZG2JJrc7cFy0O%7ENqanwc4jxnga0SNgLkzLXqj9oyigQNKmh03qdKXCG8MPja44iv9yrsguPkxFmlbtqoYJUNO6wnlIOdoL6c2T56BKxYJPPVU5fHz7zEWjbpDleuRDfbYqbz68vSiTINFPI%7EqgoPbTQqQajVw4hZiePYvVpeTZa9pR2E6UBerh5vANFinJ4FERvVo3KBPhSPoShvsBiYrnM2d21j-dZj8rottZc6ZbMtXV7HsM2ND9aDduK5YrtB-etC1wFoI39Kx0hpHgyC4QoLqXpU8WEczw0oX9etkD90%7EmzNU%7EyjYUAu8FaDnbqI7yhUuhA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7f73ea99f14c9abe8391d0ecd85a6eac https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/31c3d48a231037af1cbc9cdbe69433fc.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=jakSsa2GFDKS-g5kE-ngPZXlFBJUNZbBhz4kna0VEe%7E9PROxP5bRCHqmy28rkTQaOewCjmVZApeCyoHJd3ArUB6obe6kDQhbgSYQvxNd1N-dkf1MACNBxO54DRc1wl4Ev4LP02HrcglzVu4nZE6iQASWr3Nn%7E5TR9DpxXUfbULuEx0IP3re0eTGYj7aT5Hx6m1WIikCqKrtV8qBOQ8CRp89iYreGLHzeP5qgNClk6ELst%7EiDYDhQi5Xbk9QneKkCHqlE-cdzLNlIkiUAcsb6sopZPCVUTosPUSmGmxmiNCugYo49-ENpN1AGUFZNYydZWCdtvoDrIfOwuXGvMaRuNg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 40efe30af4bf597f7d55381c4a45a2bb https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/032fa0ae693f8acf63bbc172166157e6.MP3?Expires=1779926400&Signature=rsJiccWCMCmGAMMd-zeDojBkDSly2hn1BCahaZgntTs2q10w-Px0Z6cHokQIzc4An2x039URW8VI07652YmVDNetrx2Mre0G8eXvCL59f4zFukN4B%7E9evNCiJBJDXOCooy7%7EWYiD2YZ85A3By-cAbfy9ACIuhGydm-9quR72qxVd3%7EJjNRVFoKO63135Obf8ZQfex1e0yGk2f8LBvIJtEQdvihteur2mJi4BvvXeYCuULiNHEPCgt2FxAcO8Y7gkRvw4eco8sB42gZhQ28CMTOet1Xo8xjZK49folkBCJW7cSRoJUrP4%7E7NcS74K-mQfmPbANGYYzz1PWazFczn4bw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 0192f068fdccbc79c2ddde85c9d06c2a https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ddee5f77e78ea008725004c58137e9a7.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=tT6LpV2ijJsOPG6M2oXnPg25WXnWMaDfMDbQkAcDl%7E7zYdmcosrLBYTeraHolAX15-e5RRTMRgo%7EsMs2x4CVp%7EdQAZiymgVunXh-0GxC%7Epo04x6jC1VSySVZ5GIVtlW%7ENam61iwv8eX2Zhjmorc%7EkT-iyJ4qIYaAaoFJDC8c0BKCH4MTocI8YFWQPfFdvghAGsbTKUbjBoFp-7HUnLe8-I756Vce14S-fmfaydGdtsHkR13EeHJ-YbdkP2it3xLkX-QOZEJWBjetU7M4ZT5A-dG7183Bvm23lB3d-H7HbtGRN30eTykpif%7EyKj7vF7z35AxmPchXg4sEP5t1ztzTOA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 866951f59cfea78a20ee86e1f8a9104a PDF Text Text 1 Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course HIST428M – Spring 2020 Instructor: Dr. Anne S. Rush Interviewer’s Name: Mavishka Lankatilleke Interviewee’s Name: Malindi Lankatilleke Interviewee’s Country of Origin: Sri Lanka Interviewee’s Current Residence: Baltimore City, Maryland, U.S.A Date of Interview: February 28, 2020 Place of Interview: Baltimore City, Maryland, U.S.A Introduction: This interview between Mavishka Lankatilleke and Malindi Lankatilleke explores her twenty-year long journey as an immigrant from Sri Lanka to the United States. Her father worked in the United Nations, so while Malindi was growing up, she had to move between five countries that differed in social structure and government. At the time of her living there, these countries faced various issues, whether it be a civil war, rapidly expanding infrastructure, brand new independence, or the aftermath of racial segregation. This all occurred before her move to the United States for college with just two suitcases and a baby. Malindi emphasizes how the constant changes and leaving instilled in her a “temporary lifestyle” where she never felt like she belonged to one place. Keywords: Sri Lanka, Sudan, Thailand, Namibia, South Africa, civil war, apartheid Mavishka: Okay. I am Mavishka Lankatilleke and it is 11:55 on February 29, 2020 in Baltimore, MD and I’m with my mother, Malindi Lankatilleke, who was just named one of the top Women of Influence in Construction. And I am here to interview her on her immigration story. So, first off, where were you born and when? Malindi: Hi, Mavi. (laughs) I was born in Colombo, Sri Lanka, in um—on February 13, 1982. �2 Mavishka: Um and I know that you’ve moved around to a lot of different places, um so, how long were you in Sri Lanka for? Malindi: So, uh when I was—soon after I was born um, my father worked for the UN, United Nations. So, um he was—he got a contract to work in southern Sudan in a place called Juba which is at the very bottom of Sudan. And so, we um, we moved there. And really, it’s in the middle of nowhere next to the Nile River. And um, I was a baby obviously but we just—they didn’t have anything there, no food, nothing. Um, I remember stories of how food used to get dropped off by helicopter every week to the United Nations compound that we lived in. And so, when my parents traveled back and forth from there to Sri Lanka, they brought um seeds of things that they can grow in the garden ‘cause the soil was so good since it was near the Nile. So, they ended up having this huge garden of like fresh produce. Actually, I have a picture of me watering that garden. (shows the picture) (Both laugh) Malindi: Here it is. Um, so we were there for a couple years. Um, during that period, I got malaria twice. Um, after the second time, um, I was almost—um I almost died. And my— both my parents also got it. And so, my mother decided to go back to Sri Lanka with me, um because we kept getting sick and live in Sri Lanka with her sister and family while my dad stayed in Juba to finish off his contract. Um so, my mom and I left, and we lived in Sri Lanka um since then and then my father came when he was done with his contract. He came and I was—we were in Sri Lanka until nineteen—about 1990, which is when the civil war in Sri Lanka got really intense and real—the violence was, um, sort of coming towards—it was spreading around the country including the capital where we lived. And my father then worked—um when he came back to Sri Lanka, he �3 worked for the government. And he worked for the—essentially what would be the housing department. And he had projects all over the country um involving people. His whole career has been about people building their own homes and their own communities. So, from the beginning that was a strong influence for me ‘cause that’s what we lived and breathed. Um, so he worked for the government but instead of providing gov—government housing in other countries, there’s a whole philosophy of self-help housing that’s assisted by government resources. So, he was doing these projects um, but the war was so intense. And so, I—I was obviously very young, I was probably like five years old and um it was—I ex—I remember—I have glimpses of this experience. Um, I remember like one time, my dad came back from a trip from one of his projects and his—the white car was completely damaged and had all these black marks on it ‘cause it had been stoned by um a terrorist group. So, the war was between two extremist organizations—the Tamil Tigers and the JVP which was the Sinhalese extremist people. Um, anyway, so I have these glimpses of that. I remember another incident where we were on—on the way—on a weekend on the way to our cousin’s house for dinner. We’re driving along and there’s this bus on fire um with people all around it. And I thought they were on fire too, they must’ve been. Um there was this thing where, you know, the terrorists were just blowing up buses. There was a lot of suicide bombings. And I can never take that image out of my head. Um it was in the middle of the road. We had hit the brakes really hard and then turned around and um got out of there, but that image lives with me forever of the war. Um so there’s things like that that live with me. When the war got really bad, um we were—my family was receiving threats from um the terrorist organizations because my dad worked for the government. And um so he decided to basically exile ourselves from the country. Um, this was really hard because we had just built a house in Sri Lanka and we were well �4 established there and all of the sudden, I remember we had to um pack two suitcases and disappear. And nobody knew that we um—nobody knew that we were leaving except our closest family, and we essentially disappeared in the middle of the night. And there were—there were curfews—so—in Colombo and everywhere. Um, so like you wouldn’t be allowed to go out after 7pm or whatever. So, if you had a flight, you had to get a special pass allowing you to travel on the roads after that certain time. So fortunately, our—my mom’s sister lived near the airport, so we stayed at her house the night that we were leaving. Uh I remember it being very traumatic for them. There’s a lot of tears and I didn’t know really what was happening. They were—they were acting like we were never going to see them again. Um, so I was very confused. So, I was 7 at that time. Um so we disappeared, and we went to um Bangkok, Thailand. Um checked into a hotel and what I didn’t really know is that my dad didn’t have a job. We just left with no real plan. Um but he had some contacts at uh one of the United Nations offices, um headquarters in Bangkok. So, while my mom and I were in the hotel, she was trying to um teach me English because I had been to school in Sinhalese um in Sri Lanka. So, I did my first grade, uh kindergarten and first grade in Sinhalese, which is our native language. And so, my mom had these English workbooks and she’s trying to teach me English in the hotel. And of course, I could—I could speak English, but I couldn’t write and read and write and it’s the first grade so there’s that too. That was the level of knowledge. Um meantime my dad would go out every morning to these UN um offices and I guess what he did was um try to get a job, so he was consulting and—them on various projects on things and he put—you know, he went there every day until they actually hired him for a real job. And when they did that, we um moved out of the hotel. I remember being in that hotel for probably two months. Living in a hotel for two months (laughs) and we didn’t have any �5 money. We were just living off the savings. So, we would—at first when we started off eating in restaurants, it slowed down to getting like a couple plates and cans of like um tuna fish and—and bread. And we would eat—oh, cans of sardines and bread, that’s what we would eat... Mavishka: (laughs) Oh wow. Malindi: In the hotel room ‘cause after two months like you don’t—and you don’t have an income, um that’s what you do. So, um when he got the job, we found an apartment, um moved into the apartment. Meanwhile I’m not going to school. So, this is like 2-3 months of no schooling for me. Um then we found an apartment. It was um—I think we were on the fourth floor of this tiny little apartment. It was very nice. And I remember we didn’t have a car, so my dad rented a car for the whole time that we lived there! Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: We rented a car. So, we were there—I guess he did that because um he didn’t know it was—how long this job was gonna be for. So, we rented the apartment. We rented everything because every—our lives were so short term. Um and they enrolled me in um a British school in Bangkok. It was—it was an awesome school. Very big, it went through kindergarten through high school, it’s a really great school. Um so after many months I was going to school there. And it was in English obviously. And it was really difficult ‘cause not only was I trying to learn English, but it’s a big school, and you know, the standard was so high and um, and the commute oh my gosh! So, school—I had to leave—it took two hours to get to the school. Mavishka: Gosh. Malindi: Because of the traffic in Bangkok. Mavishka: Wow. �6 Malindi: Bangkok traffic is like the worst in the whole world. Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: Um so I remember the bus used to come at like 5:45 in the morning. And remember, I’m seven years old. So, I have to get on a school bus, a van, uh with people I don’t know and sit in this bus for like two and a half hours to get to school and then find my way to my class and everything. Mavishka: At seven years old. Malindi: At seven years old. And um, and then after school there’s like a thousand buses and a thousands of kids and you’re trying to navigate to find the bus with your number on it, your bus number. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: Um that would go to your neighborhood. Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: So, it was crazy. You have to learn to adapt like quickly um so yeah, the commute was long. So, I remember just being exhausted. My mom used to brush my teeth for me while I was like—she used to hold me, but I was asleep. So, she used to hold me at the sink and like brush my teeth. Mavishka: (laughs) Malindi: Get me ready for school. And then I would sleep on the bus all the way home. Anyway, um that was Bangkok. It was a fun place. It was very urban obviously. I learned to be very independent. I used to go down the street and there were all these um—there was a street next to us that was not Thai but all Chinese uh little stores. There’s no sidewalk. There’s like the road, a drain, and the little stores. So, you walk kind of straddling the drain. �7 Mavishka: Oh. Malindi: And I used to go and get bubblegum and stuff like that. My mom would let me go like a few blocks by myself and that was pretty exciting. (Both laugh) Malindi: To be in this huge city with a gazillion people. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Anyway, um so that was my experience with Bangkok. The food was great. People—it was very, very, safe. People were very nice. Even though they didn’t speak English, people were very kind. Um and then um at the end of two years my dad’s contract was running out with that—that particular job and he wasn’t sure where we would go next. Mavishka: Was the war still happening in Sri Lanka at this time? Malindi: Yes. And so, when we left Sri Lanka, we thought we would never come back. Um but in—within those two years we did manage to go back when things were sort of safer, I guess. We went back for like a week here a week there um just for vacation to see our family. But um there was no real way of moving there to—for my dad to work, or anyone to work. Mavishka: And you still had your house there? Malindi: We still had our house there. We had relatives living in our house. Oh, I forgot to talk about um when we were living in Sri Lanka, my mom also was working. She was working for the Canadian International Development Aid Group which is like US Aid but the Canadian version. Um and so, at that time it was interesting because they—her office um loved her. They did various kinds of aid projects in—in Sri Lanka. Um and they had offered, when the war was really bad and we were trying to leave, they had offered to help us immigrate to Canada ‘cause they really loved my mom. �8 Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: And at the time my dad said, “No way, we are not going to Canada or America!” Mavishka: (Laughs) Malindi: Um he was gonna... Mavishka: Wow, why was that? Malindi: He was gonna stick it out and fight it out. He was um—wanted to not run away from the problems. But I guess we kind of ran away, but he still wanted to continue his—his uh career in development of um challenged communities, which he didn’t think there was in Canada or America. He was trying to like work in developing countries in—in places that really needed his kinds of skills. Um so—so, he didn’t feel like running away to Canada or America was—was going to um further his philosophy and his career in that—in that path. So—so, this Canadian group tried to help us but that didn’t work out. So, I just digressed to go back to that story. Um and, where was I? Oh, so in Thailand, we didn’t know where we were going next, so I remember him—we—we moved out of the apartment because we knew we had to leave, uh and stayed with some friends. And he was on the phone and he used to get—so there were three—three places that we could possibly go, one—or two places. Um one was Zambia and the other was Namibia, which are both in southern Africa. So, um I—I think there was some trouble in Zambia at the time, so we were not keen on doing that. So, like I remember he got this phone call one night and it was supposed to be like the phone call telling us where we were gonna go next. Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: And it turned out to be Namibia. Um so my parents were really happy with that phone call. After that we went back to Sri Lanka. Took with all—took all of our stuff there back. �9 Um, and just uh—we were there for a couple months. So again, while during this transition in time again, I’m not in school. So, my mom was like really um homeschooling me I guess, informally because she had—I had libraries of workbooks that I had to do. Mavishka: Yeah. (chuckles) Malindi: Because there was no way you could keep up if you don’t go to school for months at a time. So— Mavishka: Right, and you were seven or eight around this time? Malindi: Umm I was nine. Mavishka: Oh Malindi: Nine. So back to the workbooks I go. I had always done workbooks. Um yeah so then in Sri Lanka then the time came when—oh yeah, when we were there in Sri Lanka for a couple months preparing to go to move to Namibia, um my mom was going through a lot of health issues. Um she was diagnosed with a very serious um endometriosis that was turning into—becoming cancerous. Um so that was really difficult. I remember her going to a lot of treatment and things like that. Things that I didn’t understand. I just knew that she was in bad health. And so, while were in Sri Lanka, my parents left me there with family and then went back to Bangkok for these medical treatments because Bangkok has really high-quality uh hospitals and stuff. So, I remember them leaving me and going for like weeks at a time to Bangkok to get this medical treatment. So, um and then I found out that they were—part of those treatments um—one way for her to—to get over her um—um endometriosis was to get pregnant. So, they were trying to get pregnant also, but um I don’t think that was working out. So, I think um during that time she was getting IVF, just uh um treatments to try and get pregnant. So that was all happening. I don’t know what’s going on. Um they came back, and then they told me that �10 this treatment worked and she’s pregnant. So, she was pregnant with my brother, Etosha. Um so there she’s pregnant and then we have to travel to Namibia. Who like—who goes to there often, you know? Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: Um it’s a country in southwest Africa but we were kind of hopeful. It seemed like it would be a cool place. Remember this was a time where there was no Google... Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: There’s no cell phones. There’s no way to like, “Oh let me just Google this place and let me see where we’re gonna live.” There’s nothing like that so— Mavishka: This is a completely new place that you hadn’t heard of or... Malindi: (shaking her head) Mm-mm. Mavishka: Expected? Malindi: And I mean you could go to the library and look up books but there was no way to like hop on the internet and see like “What’s this place? Like where would we live?” Nothing. Mavishka: Right, right. Malindi: This is like nineteen—when was this? 1992. So, and there’s my mom she’s having a terrible pregnancy because she’s, you know, she’s sick and feeling sick and everything. Um I remember our trip. We said goodbye to our family again and we packed our stuff into boxes. And I was told that those boxes would arrive in Namibia when we got there and found a place to live. They were shipping out basically our whole house of stuff. Again, we’re back to the two suitcases and we moved. We flew to um Nairobi, Kenya, first. Nairobi, Kenya is the headquarters for the UN, United Nations, in all of Africa. So that’s where we started the journey because my dad had to set up certain things with the headquarters before we got to Namibia. So, �11 we were there for a couple weeks. Um and then I remember my mom being very, very sick during those couple of weeks, um throwing up and all kinds of things. So, the pregnancy was kind of rough and we’re traveling so much she wasn’t—I don’t know if she was getting the right treatment like you would today in America. So, anyway, then um we went to Windhook, Namibia. It was a beautiful place. Um, so clean, so sparse, not many people, not crowded. It was just desert. Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: And this city in the dessert. And it was a city! Like they had actual buildings, roads were nice, everything was really, really nice. You could really see the European influence on the—in the cities especially just because of the infrastructure and the kinds of buildings. Um so Namibia had been colonized by um the Dutch and then there was their language—um there’s several indigenous languages and there’s also um Afrikaans which is the—the white Dutch um sort of version of their language um. Oh, they were—they were also colonized by the Germans which meant that the—they had all these German—I remember the food of course. German food everywhere and it was great. Mavishka: (laughs) Yeah? Malindi: It was like yummy. Now this is a new country. Namibia got its independence in 1992 so from... Mavishka: Right when you got there. Malindi: From the Germans. So, we had—right when we got there it’s a brand-new country. In fact, it was—if you look at maps from that time period it was just added to the map of Africa as a separate country during that time. Mavishka: Oh wow. �12 Malindi: So, if you look at older maps it will say—it will just say, “Southwest Africa.” And then maps after that changed it to Namibia ‘cause it was a new, um, newly elected government. Um President Sam Nujoma was the new president and he was awesome. I had the opportunity to meet him years later. Um he really changed the country. And the whole transition from colonization to independence was so positive and... Mavishka: Wow Malindi: Well received by all the people and I got to be a part of that history of that country. And that was just amazing, even though maybe I didn’t understand everything that was happening. Um, so we were there. My brother was born in April, on 13th of April 1992. He’s the first Sri Lankan to be born in Namibia. Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: And at the hospital they put up a map and they um—‘cause they realized like, since they got independence, they’re gonna be having more foreigners in this country coming for investment or diplomatic reasons and they’re probably gonna have more foreign babies born in this country. So, they put, in the lobby of this hospital, they put a big world map and you—you got to um put a pin on where you are from... Mavishka: Oh wow. Malindi: When your baby was born there. So, we put a pin on there, um when my brother was born. So that was kind of cool. Um they had great medical facilities. Um, we found a house. We bought a house there which was cool. Um it was like a Spanish style house. Um I got my first pet, or dog, my first dog I should say, I had fish before that. Um their friend of ours gave me this puppy at three weeks old for my birthday in February, soon after we had moved there. And I made friends with um coworkers of my dad and they gave me this puppy. His name was �13 Kalu and he was the cutest thing. And um he—so we had a house, a dog, everything’s cool. Where would I go to school? Um so like I said there was a lot of foreigners coming into the country because it’s a new country. There’s lots of foreign investment. There were um prospects of oil uh drilling on the—on the coast because they had a rich coastline. So, there were these Scandinavian companies coming to drill oil. So, I had a lot of Scandinavian friends and um one of the families decided that they should start a school for all these um diplomat kids and foreign kids. So, they got together and started a school. At first because it was such a small number of people, they um rented out space from a local school. So, like they gave us a certain area for our school and that was called the Windhook International School. Um and this is a family from Finland that started this school. Mavishka: So, it was like this school was made for you and your friends. (chuckles) Malindi: Yeah! We were the first like—the classes were um—so I would be—I would’ve been in the fifth grade but since they didn’t have enough people, they combined fifth and sixth together. And they brought in you know whoever, like the diplomat’s uh spouses who were qualified became teachers or they like brought teachers from other countries in. Um my teacher, my class teacher for the fifth/sixth grade was an Indian woman. Um and yea it was just all this—this divergence of uh different people of different ethnicities. And I fit—I fit in perfectly well because I was similar to them. It’s people that are just so transient. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: And there were also um enrolled in the school, um children of government officials from Namibia because they had the money to go to this private school. So, I had—I made friends with all these like ministers’ kids and stuff like that. Um yeah, so that was—that was a cool experience. In fact, I’m still in touch with some of those people. �14 Mavishka: That’s great. Malindi: Yeah, kids from all over the world. And through Facebook and stuff we’ve found each other and—and they’re all over the world today! And you know, I can just jump on Facebook and see their pictures and stuff and that’s cool um. But at the time there was none of that. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: There’s no social media. So, if someone left, that was it. If you wanted to keep in touch with somebody, you’d have to literally like write letters and go to the post office. So, as a kid, like that’s kind of hard to do. So, you’re always in this (sigh) um life of making and losing friends and everything is temporary, and everything is short term. Like you might—I’ve formed really great relationships with people, but at the back of your mind, you know that their parents’ jobs could change in a second and they would leave. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um so, like I said, I had a lot of Scandinavian friends. When they found that the oil drilling wasn’t working out, they left. So, I lost those friends. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: Um, yeah um. Mavishka: Was the school still running? Malindi: Yeah, school is always running because there’s always people like—like ourselves coming in and out for some reason. Um so yeah that was the lifestyle was this—it’s hard to form um well, you—it’s human nature to form close relationships because humans wanna be close to each other. But then you’re in this life of like constantly saying hello and saying goodbye. �15 Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And no one belongs anywhere because you’re in a foreign place and your friend doesn’t look anything like you. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: You know, my friend from Namibia is dark skinned and has frizzy hair, and then my other friend is from Sweden and blonde and blue eyed. And I’m brown, so that was the group of friends. Mavishka: Yeah. (laughs) Malindi: And that was no um strangeness about that. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: We played together, we laughed together, we ate together. We did all the things that little kids do together and there was no, um, no strangeness or weirdness about the fact that we’re different colors. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, when you just—I digress, but when you think about how racism is such a huge issue here in America, um I think back to those times where it was something we never even thought about. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: It’s not—it wasn’t an issue. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: There was nothing um weird about me having a friend who was as dark as the night or as light as the sun. Like there was nothing about that that bothered me or that I had even questioned. �16 Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So that was the world that I grew up in. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: And I became—there was no awareness of race. I became more aware of it in the next chapter of my journey, um which was our move to South Africa. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: I don’t know if you want to ask me anything more about Namibia but— Mavishka: No, you can keep going. (Both laugh) Malindi: Um— Mavishka: So, well you moved to South Africa during apartheid, right? Malindi: Yeah, we um, well, right after apartheid ended, actually. So—so, while we were in Namibia, South Africa was still under apartheid. Um and we were in Namibia for 4 years. Just again like a beautiful place. Um we also had a couple more Sri Lankan families who came to Namibia and we became very close friends. Um we’d get together every weekend with these families because you know they’re from Sri Lanka and we’d make Sri Lankan food together and all that kind of stuff. Um after 4 years again, my father’s contract with his job was ending. And um this time the transit—the transition to a new place was um you know easier than the last move where he found out right away that he could—he would be offered a job to do in South Africa. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: Which was a little scary because South Africa was still under apartheid— apartheid was just ending. And Nelson Mandela, as soon as he became the president um of—of �17 the new South Africa, um we were supposed to go there and start a whole new journey. Um, so it was hard to leave Namibia. Again, here we are leaving. Um at least um we had, you know, it wasn’t a long move. It wasn’t moving continents. It was moving like, you know, two days away of driving or something like that. (chuckles) So, we um, we flew out of Windhook and flew to Johannesburg. Um my father’s job was in Pretoria which is—so South Africa has a few different capital cities. It has a financial capital. It has a um judicial capital, and a government capital, and the government capital was Pretoria. So, we moved there, and we lived in some temporary housing. A temporary house that the UN gave us until we found our own place, um. [pauses] So, I’m trying to remember. Um that was a very strange experience moving there. It wasn’t like Namibia at all. And most people think, “Oh Africa is like all the same.” But um this was the country next door and it—it wasn’t the same. People were different. Um all of the sudden, I became aware of the race issue. Um and I realized that there was a lot of, because of apartheid, there was a lot of well the racial issue. Um, the inequities and unfairness and the things that went on um and how people had been, in that country, had been segregated and not offered the same opportunities. So, all of a sudden, this race issue was like brought to light and you could see it— you could see it in—everywhere. If you go into a store that was like a white store, people would just turn their heads and look at you like you were from outer space, whereas I didn’t have that experience in Namibia at all. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um, so um we lived in Pretoria. There wasn’t an international school in Pretoria at the time. So, my parents—we went to different schools and I ended up going to this (sighs) Anglican girls’ school. Mavishka: (laughs) �18 Malindi: Called St. Mary’s. And here I am, a person whose grown up around mixed races, no, you know, no religion. We’re Buddhist by the way. And just um different ethnicities and cultures and religions. Here I am going to a girls’ school. And I was kind of a tomboy growing up so this was like really weird. Um Anglican girls’ school, super, super, religious, strict, they had the ugliest uniform you could ever imagine. Mavishka: (laughs) Malindi: Which was brown. It was a brown skirt and dress and a blue tie, and a brown blazer. Mavishka: Oh no. (laughs) Malindi: And you had to, even in the middle of winter, you had to wear a skirt. Mavishka: Oh. Malindi: So, your legs were freezing. Um and there’s no like heating and stuff like there is in America. Because it doesn’t stay cold for as long as—winters aren’t as prolonged as they are here. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: But they still happen. So, it’s still probably 30 to 40 degrees for a short time and buildings aren’t built with heating or anything like that, um so—or insulation for that matter. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, um I remember just being—winters being very cold. In this school, the race issue was serious. Even though apartheid’s over, there’s—it’s a free country, but all the girls in the school had their cliques and it was all divided by race and that was the first time I had ever seen that. And I didn’t fit in anywhere. Mavishka: And how old were you at this time? �19 Malindi: Um so I would’ve been, oh gosh maybe 14? Yeah, 14, so just becoming a teenager and going through teenage issues and the girls were very cliquish. Um even within the races, there were like the British kids who stuck together. There were the Afrikaner kids who stuck together who had Dutch descendants. And then even within the um black people, they grouped themselves per their indig—their ethnicities cause there’s several um—even within the black community, there’s different ethnicities. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Like different background, uh tribes that they had descended from. And they even— and there were different languages, there were like eight different languages. So, they all grouped themselves together. Oh, there were Indian... Mavishka: Oh really? Malindi: Like Indian people um girls and they grouped themselves together and I was not welcome in that group. (Both chuckle) Malindi: Even though I am South Asian. So, I had no friends. Um (laughs) so I was depressed a lot. That was just a horrible experience. One quick story, um, I used to cry every day because my dad couldn’t pick me up right after school because he was working so I had to wait ‘til 5 o’clock ‘til he picked me up. So, I would sit on a bench and cry until he showed up. Mavishka: Oh no. Malindi: Um that was every day. And then finally—and then I used to go for walks around campus. It was kind of a cool campus. Um and I missed playing sports. So, one day while I was on a walk, I walked into the P.E. teacher’s office. Um and I—I started talking to her about basketball and they had these wonderful basketball courts that nobody used. Um and I talked to �20 her about that like, “Why do we have basketball courts? Is there like a team or something? Can I join something?” And she said, “Oh no there’s no team, but would you like to start one?” Mavishka: Oh wow. Malindi: And I was like, “Yeah!” And I started this conversation with her. Here’s me trying to start a basketball team in a girls’ school where I had no friends. Mavishka: Yeah. (Both laugh) Malindi: So. So, um but she was—really encouraged me. And I guess—I guess I was brave enough to walk into her office that day and just start talking to her. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And she was like, “Yeah, you know, why don’t you make some flyers?” And— and so, I did that, and I made some flyers and I handed it out during recess to people to come out on such and such a day after school and meet on the court. And these are people who had never heard of basketball or played it or anything. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um the teacher said she would get some balls. She would buy some balls and um before the date. And I did that, and I was so nervous no one was gonna show up. And so that afternoon, she and I got—got ready at the court and then we see all these girls coming down the street. Coming in their skirts and their ties... Mavishka: (laughs) Malindi: Um to the basketball court. That was really cool. Um so then the teacher and I—she basically helped me lead this group and explained what the sport was and showed them �21 some basics and like how to dribble the ball, and how to shoot the ball, and how to pass and do all that stuff. And we started a basketball team! Mavishka: Oh wow. Malindi: Um the first basketball team at St. Mary’s. Mavishka: Wow! (chuckles) Malindi: And um, after I—actually after I left St. Mary’s I found out that the team was still—years later was still going on and they were actually competing against other schools. Mavishka: That’s great. Malindi: Yeah, so that was a cool story. Um yeah so, we were in South Africa um for five years. Um it was—after St. Mary’s—well St. Mary’s got a little too much for me in—its just the whole philosophy. I got into trouble a lot there because of things like I was doing more work than um what was required. Mavishka: Yeah? (chuckles) Malindi: So, like for instance— Mavishka: Got in good trouble. (chuckles) Malindi: Well, they were not happy that I um finished the geometry workbook before it was—before, you know, they went through the chapters. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: Because I was bored at home, so I—and I loved geometry, so I did it. Um so, they used to call my dad a lot and complain and he was getting tired of—tired of me getting into trouble. So, um my parents found out about um the American International School of Johannesburg. Now this is in Johannesburg which is about an hour away. Um, so we went to visit there, and I loved it. Um, it was kind of like my school in Namibia, the Windhook �22 International School. International school again with people like myself who are from all over the world. Um and it was very expensive, but my parents decided to make the investment and send me there. And from the—it was—I was in the 8th grade, so I started the 8th grade at the American International School. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: And it was just from the first day it was just awesome. Everything, you know, everybody—again its integrated and I made lots of friends instantly. I played basketball, did swimming, and this and that, all the sports you could imagine, soccer. Um I was there through high school and it was awesome. Um had lots of friends, was very popular, did well in school. I did the um IB program in 11th and 12th grade which was challenging. Um, I also met my first husband there, your father, Mavi. (Both laugh) Malindi: So, um I fell in love with this guy in the second half of ninth grade towards tenth grade and um we thought we were gonna be together forever, um. We really did. (laughs) Talked about it all the time. And um it was funny when they did the—we were together all through high school. When we did the um—they did, you know how they do the high school superlatives? Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: Like we got, always, every year got um “most likely to tie the knot.” Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: Um and stuff like that. We became prom king and queen. Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: And it was unanimous, the vote. �23 Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: Um, in my senior year, um I got pregnant with you, Mavi. And that was obviously um shocking and unplanned. And um for a long time, I—well for months I hid it from everybody. Um obviously your father knew about it but uh my parents or friends, nobody knew about it. And I thought that if they knew about it, they would encourage me to have an abortion, and I didn’t wanna do that. So, I hid it so that that would be an impossibility. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: So, um yea I hid it until I couldn’t hide it anymore because I was getting too big. Um although I was very, very tiny, I was a tiny person. Um then finally I had to confess to my parents in what was going on, but at that time I was already like six months pregnant. (laughs) Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: So, when this moment happened, it was um, it was rough. My mom took it the hardest. Um, my dad was surprisingly the most calm and supportive that you could ever—I never imagined. They immediately took me to doctors and all that stuff so that I could get proper care, medical care because I’d been pregnant for six months without any kind of doctor or anything. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um, continued to go to school. Um but I was hiding it, the school didn’t know. I was so small, so nobody really noticed. Um then eventually at the end, they had to tell the—my parents told the school about it. And um, one of the—so when were at the doctor’s office one time um—obviously it was too late to get an abortion, which was my whole plan in the firstplace um to not—to avoid that or having the pressure from anybody to do that. But the doctor’s um office people were—had talked about, “Well there’s all these adoption options and things �24 like that that you can do.” And I remember sitting in that office and my dad looked at me and said, “You don’t wanna do that because you’re gonna regret it. If you give this baby up for adoption, you’re gonna regret it. We’re gonna take care of this baby.” And I was like, “Okay that’s what we’re gonna do.” Mavishka: Thank you. (Both laugh) Malindi: So, um, yeah so, they told the school and they um—because they didn’t know when—exactly when you were due and stuff, they just—based on how they measured it, they just planned for uh inducing me to have you on November 17th, 1999. So, it was all planned and set up that I was gonna go on that day and they were gonna induce me and everything and it was early, a few weeks probably earlier than when you were due. And one of the reasons for that was so that it was still safe for me to have the baby, but I could still go back to school and finish the semester. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: So—because the semester ends in December, so if I didn’t finish the semester I would have lost out on a whole semester of high school. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So—and I—my parents made a deal with the school saying to send me all the work home and I would do it at home and send it back through my brother who was going to the same school. At that point he was ten years old and he was in the elementary school, but I could send a package back on the bus. So, remember there’s no—not really email and things like— well there was email but it wasn’t used as it is today. Mavishka: Right. �25 Malindi: There’s no Google Docs. Mavishka: Right. (chuckles) Malindi: Um so we um—so we made that arrangement with the school. They were very supportive. The school counselor actually came to our house and talked to me and like everybody was very supportive. They used to send me packets of schoolwork to do at home so that I wouldn’t miss out on the work that was—and remember I was doing the IB program so it was like, that’s not something that’s easy to do. Um I did lose out on going on all the field trips that the IB program requires you to go on, but I made up for it the following year. Um anyway, so I had you, and then that was—that was a tough day. Physically a tough day, I thought I was gonna die. Mavishka: (nervously laughs) Yeah? Malindi: But as soon as I had you, Mavi, I was just like—it was—I was in awe of myself and my whole world like changed in a (snaps fingers) moment like that, and it was just incredible. I remember them taking you away to, you know, wherever they keep the babies. And um I was in that bed and I could hear you crying. And I could recognize your cry versus the other babies that were in there. And I was pressing the button to call the nurse and when they came in, they’re like, “What’s the matter?” And I was like, “Bring my baby to me, bring my baby to me.” And they were like, “Oh no, you should rest, the baby’s fine.” And I’m like, “No, I can hear my baby crying. Bring my baby to me.” I was like a mad woman in that hospital. (Both laugh) Malindi: And they finally brought me the baby and um I—I held the baby, you, on me the whole time, I didn’t rest. And they were like, “You need to rest,” you know, “they’ll take �26 care of the baby. You need to rest.” And I was like, “No.” I’m just going to hang onto this baby forever...” Mavishka: Yeah. (laughs) Malindi: “Like I don’t care what you people are doing.” Um because I was so afraid to lose you. For some reason I just had this attachment. Like you—you were in me moments ago and I had to hang onto you for dear life. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And that’s what I did. And then we went um—they told me because I was so young and so small and stuff, they told me to stay longer in the hospital, but I didn’t want to, I just felt, I wanted to go home. And um and so, then my parents were like, “Okay fine lets go home.” But they hired the nurse to come to the house every other day, so they can check on me and the baby. So, um we did that. And I was at home with you, really happy. Um, it was really magical and then two weeks after I had you, I went back to school. Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: Yeah, I couldn’t, walk really well. Um I was kind of slow, but I went back to school, and I remember that the first day of school um everybody had brought me presents, and the teachers and everybody were so welcoming, and it was a really cool day. Um and then, eventually when I got physically better, I joined the basketball team again and you actually came to a game. (Both chuckle) Malindi: My mom brought you to a basketball game. Um so, I graduated from American International School of Johannesburg the year later after that. And um, a lot of people thought that by having a child I had ruined my future. And um I knew they were wrong, and I had to �27 prove everybody wrong. So, future meaning going to college and having a career and all of that stuff. And um my parents were the most supportive on this end. Um they knew I could do it. And I started doing college applications to come to America. Um, why America? (laughs) Because um I wanted to study architecture. And um so my dad did all this research on architecture schools in America and um he did—he made like binders for every school and he was contacting different places to see what their programs were like. He did all the research. All I had to do was the applications. The applications were hard because remember back then you can’t email them on the last day. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: I had to FedEx all of them or send them through FedEx or DHL. So that would be like a week before hand and it also cost a lot of money to apply. I applied to 26 colleges. Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: Because my dad made me. (Both laugh) Malindi: So, um it was very exciting when I first got letters back. My first one was from um University of Illinois in Urbana Champaign, and then Wisconsin, and the third one was University of Virginia. And my dad was like, “That’s the one! That’s the one you’re going to.” At the time, the architecture school was um ranked—tied for number one with Harvard. Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: We can’t afford to go to Harvard so... Mavishka: Yeah. (chuckles) Malindi: Virginia was a good deal. Um, so um I was accepted the offer to go to Virginia. Um that summer we—well it was winter in South Africa. We had to—we were all moving. Um �28 so, we were leaving South Africa, the whole family. We all moved back to Sri Lanka. Um all our stuff got shipped again. So, this is our stuff is just getting shipped around the world. Mavishka: (laughs) All over the world. Malindi: Yeah. So, we went back to Sri Lanka um that whole summer and we had a great few months there. You know, you were adjusting, and the whole pan was to—for me to go um first to college and once I had settled in and found a place to live and organized myself, my mom would bring the baby over to America. So, I had a great summer. One of the hardest things, probably the hardest things that I had to go through was saying goodbye to my baby who was probably about what, eight months, nine months old. And um so my dad was taking me to college. We are flying out of Colombo, flying to Washington. And he bought me a one-way ticket. (Both laugh) Malindi: A one-way plane ticket! Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: Then we’re back to our two suitcases here. Mavishka: Yeah. (laughs) Malindi: He—you’re only allowed to take one suitcase per person, so, he wasn’t gonna stay there long, so I put my stuff in my suitcase and his suitcase with my one-way ticket. And I had to say goodbye to you. Um, baby doesn’t understand what’s happening. And I cried all the way to London and from London to Washington. Mavishka: Oh gosh. Malindi: I was sobbing the entire time. Mavishka: Oh. �29 Malindi: The entire time. Um it was—it was just crazy. Um we arrived in Washington and we were both so exhausted, my dad and I were so exhausted. We were gonna take the Greyhound Bus to Charlottesville the next day um, but we got in a cab to go to the Greyhound station. The cab driver—but we were so exhausted—I was kind of like dozing off because I had been crying for like two days. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: Um and the cab driver was a South African guy! Mavishka: Oh wow! Malindi: And he’s like—he was like so friendly so great and he and my dad were having this big chat and he was like, “I’ll just drive you to Charlottesville.” Mavishka: Wow! From Washington? Malindi: Yeah. Yeah, “I’ll just drive you 3 hours away.” Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: In a cab. Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: Um and so I slept that whole 3 hours. I don’t know what happened. I was too tired. We got to Charlottesville. He dropped us off at the hotel, at our hotel and um, that was my first moment in America. Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: Yeah so. Mavishka: That sounds like a very intense trip. That entire two decades. Malindi: Yeah. Yeah. Mavishka: From 1982 to when you came here in 2000. �30 Malindi: Yeah. Mavishka: Um and your first impression was that cab driver. Malindi: Yeah. Mavishka: Um and then I know that you talked about how in Thailand you grew independent and you had to learn how to adapt quickly to things. Did that apply to you, um when you were in college in Virginia? Malindi: Um yeah because once again it’s a different culture. And um so one thing is that um, well you go—you’ve been to college—you go to college here. You know that before school starts in the fall, you can, if you want to, have the whole summer to prepare for it, find a place to live. You already signed your lease for next semester. Mavishka: Yep. Malindi: I didn’t have that opportunity because of the visa process. Um your visa becomes—your student visa becomes active only a week before the start of school. Mavishka: Oh okay. Malindi: So international students can come only a week before school starts. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: So, what is there to, you know, do the week before? There’s only orientation. All the places to live are already signed up for. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um classes are already booked full. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, you’re already starting at a disadvantage from students that are already here. �31 Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, we arrived the week before. Did orientation. After orientation, my dad left to go back to Sri Lanka. And um that was hard, probably harder for him. He had to leave me and my two suitcases in an apartment in Charlottesville. Mavishka: (chuckles) Yeah. Malindi: And I had to figure out what to do in this gigantic campus with 25,000 students. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: And this is my first time in, um, like living in America. So, I mean, there’s all these classes I had to sign up for, ARC101. I don’t even know what these words mean, these symbols, these—I met an advisor at the school. They helped me create a schedule. Again, everything’s not online, everything’s on paper. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: Um (chuckles), it was quite an adjustment to make. So, like, yeah you have to adjust quickly, and you can’t just be sitting there feeling sorry for yourself. You have to get out there and just like—it’s survival mode all the time. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: You’re always trying to—to make it. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Yeah, so um, you have to adjust. Adjust, adjust. Figure out, the time is different! Yeah, there’s people are speaking English, but their accents are different or they’re using different words for different things. One thing was huge for architecture was measuring?! Mavishka: (laughs) �32 Malindi: I had always measured in the um, uh metric system. Everything I know until— for 18 years has been in the metric system. All of a sudden, they’re like, “Oh, do a drawing in quarter scale.” I had no idea what quarter scale means! Mavishka: (laughs) Yeah. Malindi: And I was—there’s 300 people in the class. I’m too afraid to ask. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And there’s no place to Google it. Malindi: So, I’m trying to figure out what this measuring system is. Mavishka: (laughs) Malindi: How can I do a degree that involves measuring without knowing the measuring system? (Both laugh) Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: So that’s the kind of adjustments you have to make, and you have to go through and like overcome. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: They may seem trivial, we measure things everyday but— Mavishka: But at the time— Malindi: At the time, it’s like this huge mountain you have to climb. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi And you have to climb it quickly or you just—you get lost and lost so— Mavishka: And then, I came here in 2000. �33 Malindi: Yeah, you came um, so by that time your—your father had also joined me, and he was going to community college. We found an apartment and we were settling down and so my mom brought you over Christmas break of 2000. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: And you came, um actually, I have a picture here somewhere. Maybe it’s on the computer. Of your first day. You were asleep when I picked you up at the airport. But um we brought you back to the apartment and you were still asleep. And I had to wake you because I haven’t seen you in a few months. I woke you up and you were cute as can be, but you didn’t recognize me. It’s—you didn’t recognize your mother! (Both chuckle) Malindi: And my heart just went into my stomach. Because there’s this cute baby, my baby, and you opened your eyes, and you were friendly, but you didn’t recognize me. And you went straight to my mom and was kinda hanging on her. And I was like looking into your soul in your eyes like, “Why don’t you remember me? Why don’t you know me?” And um that was really hard for me to not be—not show that I was upset, but for me to like process that my own child didn’t recognize me. You’re only a year old. You had just turned one year. Um, then a few days later, my mom left to go back to Sri Lanka. Um so here we are in this apartment. We had really no money. We had nothing in the apartment, just like a bed, um a futon, and some kitchen supplies? No TV. We had our computer that we brought. Um and a baby! And you had um—she left her sweater [short pause] at our apartment for you because you used to hang on her. You grabbed that sweater and went and sat by the door. And you were holding her sweater and sitting by the door for hours. Mavishka: Yeah. �34 Malindi: Just being sad. And that was heart breaking. So, you gotta swallow your—I had to swallow my tears and like pick you up and play with you and do stuff so that you—we can reform our bond. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: And we obviously did. Mavishka: Because it had been months. Malindi: Yeah, so we did um—and it became a very happy time. We had really nothing um in terms of stuff or money or anything. We spent all the money we had on just paying the bills and buying food for you, and milk. You used to drink crazy amounts of milk. Mavishka: (laughs) Malindi: Um but really yeah, we really had nothing but each other. So that’s how we lived for the first part of college. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: Um then after a couple years, um it was getting really hard to—for both of us to go to classes and sort of take care of you and do our homework and everything. So um, my mom and my brother um came here on visitor’s visas um to try and help. While they were here, my mom enrolled in um community college and was able to get a student visa so she could go to college. And she’s a person who doesn’t have a college degree. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, she came, and we managed to do this whole legal process of getting a student visa so she can be here legally. And we were all going to college, taking classes, and you know living together and taking care of you, and my brother at the time was about 12. About 12. Um and so I was able to, we were able to enroll him in a local public school. And um yeah, and �35 then we lived in Charlottesville for the next several years until I graduated from UVA with an undergraduate degree in architecture in 2004. And then in 2004 um my mom and brother stayed in Charlottesville. The three of us moved to Baltimore because I got a job in Baltimore at an architects’ office. And we were—so this was (sighs)—with the student visa you can work— you’re permitted to work for a year. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: So that was my year to work. So, I worked for a year and then the question is “What happens next?” You either have to leave the country, find a job that can sponsor you for a work permit, or go back to school. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: And I thought, “Well they could sponsor me,” but I also did know that I wanted a graduate degree. So, I thought that if I started to work I wouldn’t, maybe, not go to school again. So, um after a year, I decided to go back to um college for a graduate program. So, I only applied to Virginia. (Both chuckle) Malindi: Um, and I was accepted into the architecture graduate program and also the planning—urban and environmental planning. So, I enrolled for two master’s degrees. Mavishka: Wow. (laughs) Malindi: And um they actually gave me a significant scholarship for doing the two masters at the same time. Um one note is that it’s very hard, almost impossible—maybe things have changed now but I don’t know—for undergraduate international students to get any scholarship. Mavishka: Okay. �36 Malindi: Um scholarships are really for uh American citizens and residents so— Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um, so my parents had been paying for me to go to UVA this whole time, so it was great to, in grad school, get that scholarship. Um I was then back to student visa status for graduate school. Um I was there for three years. We were there for 3 years until I finished. And then um this—so in 2008, um I got a job in Baltimore again to work for a nonprofit organization called People’s Homesteading Group. Um whose director is a close friend of my father’s from the ‘70’s who—they had worked together in the UN as volunteers in Botswana. So anyway, we reconnected with him, Michael. And um, he had this nonprofit in Baltimore doing community development projects in a very challenged neighborhood. So, this kind of like really fit in and came full circle from how I had grown up with my dad’s career to my degrees in architecture and urban planning. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: And like here’s a job opportunity that really brings that together. Mavishka: Great. Malindi: Doing similar work, but in America. So, um we moved to Baltimore. I was project manager for People’s Homesteading Group for four years. Really tough job in the middle of the recession. And um, but it was good. I was making good money. And soon after we had moved here um your father decided to disappear (nervously chuckles) and leave us, you and myself. It was very soon after we moved to Baltimore. And um for the first three months, I think, we didn’t even know where he was, um and he didn’t communicate. We later found out that he had gone back to his country, Reunion. Um, so—and I was, you know, uh trying to do the paperwork for a divorce and stuff like that, but this was again a huge challenge. Because here we �37 were, after being together since high school, raising a family, and just one night, he disappeared right after we moved to Baltimore. We were living um in Highlandtown in this little rowhouse in a new city and all of sudden overnight, literally overnight, [said emotionally] I became a single mom. So, um it was very traumatic. I remember the next day, because I didn’t know what was happening, I went to your school and told them that something’s happening, I don’t really know what, but that I was scared that (fighting tears) he would come back and try to take you or do something. I was too afraid to even go to the—stay in the house. So, we packed a bag and we stayed at my cousin’s house in Arbutus for like three weeks. And I told the school not to let anybody else pick you up except me or Michael, who I worked for, who also lived in that—close to the school. Because I was scared that this guy could come back and do anything just the way he left. So, we did that, and after that, um we did stay in the house, but I was just totally alone um. And then I decided like that wasn’t a safe neighborhood to be, especially in a house uh with you. And I had to go to work so you know, what would you do in the afternoon and all this stuff? So, um so I—we were looking for an apartment that had more security and things like that. And we found the apartment at um Lighthouse Point. We moved there in a few months and um that was really a cool experience because I was trying to start my life over (laughs) and just, yeah, try to make a whole 180 on everything. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Because I had pretty serious depression, but I couldn’t show that because I had to—I had to be there for you. Mavishka: Right. �38 Malindi: I had to be stable. I couldn’t fall apart. So, I had to get myself together, no matter how hard it was to all of the sudden like, be alone. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: But because of you, it kept me from totally losing my mind because I had to like (tearing up) get up every morning, get ready, go to work, get your stuff ready, take you to school, like, I had to do it. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: I don’t have another choice. So, um we moved and then a few months after we moved, at this time, my brother was in boarding school in Charlottesville because my mom’s visa had expired, and she left the country. Um and my brother did not want to go with her, so he got a student visa as well and went to boarding school in um Charlottesville. And after, I had— now I’m living by myself, he decided that—well we decided that he should come to Baltimore and we could live together. At least I’ll have one other person. Um so, he moved to Baltimore, so it was now um him, you, and myself in Baltimore. We enrolled him at the Friends School. And so, we were—yeah it was us. Um I was taking care of a teenager and an elementary schooler (laughs) um at the same time as losing a husband and getting a divorce. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And um the recession’s happening so in terms of um the nonprofit that I worked for, we lost all our funding. Michael had to lay off everybody except me. We were not getting paid. Um my dad was subsidizing our living cir—circumstances. Um I continued to work for People’s Homesteading Group because of their home mission and everything. We didn’t have any funding, but we were applying for grants and things like that to do the projects that we were doing, to continue the projects in the neighborhood. Um then after four years of doing that, um I �39 needed a job that paid. (chuckles) So I got a job at a construction company. Um that lasted two years because at that company, I didn’t fit into the culture. It was um—construction is a male— male dominated industry. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, um that was another thing I had to deal with. Um that I had to—to work even harder to be a part of this industry and be successful in it. And at that company, um I was hired as a project engineer, which is like the lowest level. And when I had talked to them about my career and growing and becoming a project manager, they told me that I couldn’t become a project manager because I was a woman. Um— Mavishka: They just told you that? Malindi: Yeah, they just told me that. And even when I said, “Well I’m not trying to be one right now, I’m just trying to learn um all the things I should learn to be one someday.” And they said, “Oh everything you’re doing now is what a project manager does.” I knew that, I just wanted them to say it out loud. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And they said it out loud. I’m like, “Okay, alright.” Um in the meantime, so— but I needed the income, so I stayed there. And, in the meantime, I had also met um Jeff, my husband now. And um we—we had by this time moved in with Jeff to Clipper Mill, you uh and me. And um my brother was staying in an apartment and attending University of Baltimore um after graduating from Friends. Um so, we were living in Clipper Mill with Jeff. And we had planned to get married in 2012. Um so I was at this time—um well, when I worked for People’s Homesteading Group, I had worked the first year through my student visa ‘cause you’re allowed to work for a year. During that time, you—if you wanna continue to stay in America, you have to �40 have your company sponsor you for a work visa and that’s what we did. That’s what Michael did. He sponsored me, um so I’m backtracking a little bit. Um he sponsored me for a work visa. That got rejected three times. Um because at the time, the work—well even now, the work visas have a cap. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: There’s only certain amount they give out per year. So, when I was applying, they had already made that cap. They had already uh given out that amount of visas. But there’s another way um you can get a visa and that is if you work with um, or related to, a university or educational institution, you can be considered outside of that cap. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: So, my lawyers said, “Lets apply for that part.” And we had to prove that PHG, my organization, was working with universities. And we were. We were working with Johns Hopkins and MICA um and University of Baltimore because they surround the neighborhood that we were working in. And we’re doing affordable housing. In fact, Johns Hopkins’ “Live Near Your Work” program um was based in the neighborhood where we were doing houses. So, we were very directly working um with these institutions. And the first time um the visa got rejected, it got rejected saying um that we didn’t demonstrate that we were working with universities or educational institutions. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: So then—so then, okay so we had to give them more information to prove that point, so we actually had presidents of all three universities sign um a letter saying what I was doing—what work I was doing with them. And um it got rejected again. Mavishka: Oh no. (nervous laugh) �41 Malindi: Um then we were like, “Okay so we need more stuff.” We um, we went to Senator Mikulski’s office, sat there until her people talked to us and we explained the situation. We went to Senator Cardin’s, Ben Cardin’s, office, same thing there. Senator Mikulski’s office gave me a letter of support um for my visa. Mavishka: Wow! Malindi: Yeah, and then we had this petition signed by all the presidents again of the universities and detailed information. We provided detailed reports as evidence of what work I was doing with these universities. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um and then, applied again for this third time. And it wasn’t coming out well. And we were about a couple of weeks from my visa expiring. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: Which means you and I would have to leave the country. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um and it was like crazy. Um my lawyers were going through whatever they can do. Um they didn’t even charge us money (laughs) for this extra work they had to do. Then the week before our visa—and I was going crazy cause I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh you grew up here. You’ve been going to school here. We’ve established this life. How can I pack it up in my two suitcases again and leave the country?” Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And go back to Sri Lanka? You don’t speak Sinhalese. Like we—we have no belonging anywhere. There’s no place. This was our new home, so— Mavishka: Yeah, so you prepared to go back to that temporary life again. �42 Malindi: Yeah, what would we even do? What would I do? Here, I’m trying to build a career, here. Um, it was a very confusing time. Then I got a letter finally saying that my visa was accepted. Or that my work permit was accepted. Mavishka: Wow. Malindi: So that was pretty incredible. So that kept me working at People’s Homesteading Group for the three more years. Um so, at the end of the three more years, you can either apply for an extension, or you can apply for a green card. Obviously a green—having a green card would be better. To apply for a green card, you either have to marry an American citizen, or do it—do it through your work. Now remember, we already did the first application through work and it was very, very complicated to prove and things like that. And at the time, um Jeff and I were together. So um, we’d been together for like three years by that time just dating and we had plans to get married anyway. So, we thought, “Well if we get married now then I could apply for it through the marriage rather than through the job again, which would be—” and if you apply through the job, that means you are tied to that job um for—for the duration of the visa. You can’t just change to another employer because this is the employer that sponsored that position. Mavishka: This was the job that said that you can’t grow in your career? Malindi: No, this was at People’s Homesteading Group. But um—and I would—I would still be working for People’s Homesteading Group, except that it was during the recession, so PHG lost all its funding. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, if I had applied through PHG, I don’t mind doing the work, working for them, but they wouldn’t have any funds to pay me. �43 Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, I was really torn. Um and I don’t mind having PHG sponsor me again but there was no funding for the job. So, then um Jeff and I, well, Jeff asked me to marry him and we decided, let’s get married in January. Um my work permit was expiring in April of 2012, so we said, “Let’s get married in January and apply for the green card.” Um so we got married in January at Druid Hill Park and um it was really great. It was a small wedding. We had 30 people. January 7, 2012. And we were prepared for um you know, winter weather, but it turned out to be 70 degrees and sunny that day. Mavishka: (laughs) Yeah. Malindi: So that was like a sign from the universe that we were heading in the right direction. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So that was really cool, we had our closest family and friends. Our family from Canada came here. Um both of our parents, my parents came here. It was a very happy time. Um and we applied for the green card shortly after the wedding um thinking, you know, there’s four months so if your application is processed like you’re fine. And because we didn’t have time to plan a big wedding, we thought in the summertime we’ll have a reception you know to invite other family members and our friends and things like that. Um so, we were doing that and then um we got a letter saying that—oh no we got the—a conditional green card. Meanwhile um we’re doing that, we just got married, this is when I—after applying for the green card, after getting married is when I started working at the construction company. I left People’s Homesteading Group because there was no funding for the job. Mavishka: Right. �44 Malindi: So, started working for the construction company that was telling me that I couldn’t become a project manager even though I was doing all the duties of a project manager, um because I’m a woman. And um I was going through stuff over there where it’s like, you can’t um (sighs)—I’m a woman so it would come off the wrong way, or too arrogant and this and that. Things that I was really shocked about. So, I knew that um I had to find another job but for the time being I’m like, “Okay.” I was being patient with that job, and just um trying to learn everything. They were doing really cool projects um in DC and stuff and I was involved in a project in DC where I could really, really, learn a lot, and really learn the industry even though I knew I couldn’t make progress there. So, I just like was trying to be a sponge and absorb the whole industry so I could, you know, if I went somewhere else, I could be prepared. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um then, to take the um conditions off the green card, you have to um apply again. We applied for that after a year. Then we got this letter um saying that they didn’t believe that we were a real marriage, or like it was a real marriage and the application was denied, which means that my green card would expire. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um so then that was crazy, like how could they tell us that our marriage was not real? So, we had to reapply. And we got letters from our neighbors and friends saying, “Oh we know this family. They live here. They are a real couple.” Mavishka: Yeah. (laughs) Malindi: Um we had to show pictures. We had to do—prove all kinds of things. We um had to show that we had joint ownership. So, Jeff had bought the condo years ago, so obviously I wasn’t on the condo, the mortgage. Um so instead we opened a bank account together to show �45 that we had bank account together. So, we didn’t have assets together, um. Oh, but I was pregnant with your sister! Mavishka: (chuckles) Malindi: So, then I had to show hospital records to show that I was pregnant with my husband’s baby. (Both chuckle) Malindi: Um, and then during this process of going back and forth with Homeland Security, I had the baby. I had your sister in 2014. Then we uh resubmitted her uh birth certificate and stuff and the hospital bills and everything. And um, then finally we got a letter saying it was accepted now. My green card was accepted. Um because I guess the baby thing really helped. (Both laugh) Malindi: But um, so yeah, I had your sister in 2014. Um and two months before having your sister, one of my colleagues at my construction company—um there was a—it was like a revolving door there, at the company. He had left and had joined Southway Builders. And he said oh um, “Send me your resume” after he had gone to Southway. And I said, “Hey um I’m— that’s awesome, I’ll send you my resume, but just so you know like I’m pregnant and I’m due in July and stuff, so I’m not sure if people would hire me because you know I’m about to be on leave, maternity leave.” And he goes, “Oh no, it’s cool just send me your resume.” I did, and they called me for an interview to be—for a project manager position. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: Seven months pregnant, I interviewed there three times and I just immediately felt like home at that company. �46 Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: It’s also a construction company but based in Baltimore, and just felt um like it was a good fit. And they did too. They hired me right away. And I thought, “Okay, so I can start after I have the baby and after my maternity leave of three months that I wanted.” Um and they called me after and said, “Can you start before you have the baby? Like can you start right away?” And I was like, “You know I still wanna take maternity leave for three months.” Mavishka: (laughs) Malindi: And they’re like, “Oh that’s fine, just start with us early so that you can learn our processes, so that when you come back after leave, you’ll be able to run a project by yourself.” And I was like, “This is amazing!” And the salary was like two and a half times what I was making at the other company. Mavishka: Wow! Malindi: And here they are hiring a pregnant immigrant um to this construction company that was—it’s a very male, white dominated industry in general. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: So, I took the opportunity, jumped in. I worked really hard. I had the baby, um and then stayed home for three months without pay. But even that was fine because I was—I would make more money than if I had stayed at the old company and done the same thing ‘cause it was unpaid family leave. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Um because the family leave was not an issue back then, so—was unpaid back then. So uh, had the baby, went back to Southway Builders. And it was awesome. Since then, I �47 have been running projects, have been a project manager. Um, just my career has just gone through the roof and here we are. Mavishka: You and Jeff bought a house. Malindi: Oh yeah, uh Jeff and I bought a house um almost two years ago, a year and a half ago, in Federal Hill. And Mavi, you’re able to go to University of Maryland and— Mavishka: You got your citizenship. Malindi: Yeah, um so um, after having the green card for three years, I was eligible to apply for citizenship, which I did. Um Mavi’s visa, your visa was, or your green card, you had to wait five years. Um so, you had to wait longer than me to be eligible. So, I first applied to citizenship. It took thirteen months. The whole process took thirteen months. And this time I didn’t hire a lawyer because I felt like I could do the process myself and I had substantial uh sort of evidence, information, and everything to provide for the application. We—the whole process took thirteen months and several thousands of dollars and I got my citizenship on October 2018. And what an overwhelming moment that was. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Because it was 19 years after coming to this country with my two suitcases and a baby. Mavishka: Right. (chuckles) Malindi: Um yeah, and then—and then my work was not done because um you still needed to get your citizenship. (chuckles) So then as soon as you became eligible, we applied for that. And um you got—Mavi got his citizenship just a few months ago, last um November? November, right? Yeah. So, um a year, exactly a year after mine, Mavi got his citizenship. And that was really the culminating moment because then we were both like have gone through this �48 journey of the last twenty years of being in this country, trying at every which way to like, make the American Dream happen. Mavishka: Right. So, you said that um, you finally had substantial evidence and information to do the citizenship application for yourself and that was built over this past twenty years, um which is much in contrast to your first twenty years that was moving around that you described was a “temporary life.” Malindi: Yeah. Mavishka: Now that you’ve—you’re here in Baltimore City, you’re still here, you’re doing lots of projects in Baltimore, um, and you’ve been in America for twenty years and you’re a citizen. Do you still feel that temporary life thing or do you feel that you’ve settled down, or settled into America? Malindi: Umm well, so I’ve always felt like I don’t belong anywhere. And that’s be— because of um my life experience. And I’ve always considered myself very strongly Sri Lankan. You know, I embrace our culture, our food, our family values, things like that. And um, it’s—it’s hard because during the last twenty years, as you know, we went back to Sri Lanka for vacations and summers and things like that and I love—it’s still my home, and I love going home. And um—but there was—when we’ve done that, there were times where I’ve felt like a stranger there. When—here I am trying to go home, feeling very excited. Airplane lands and I can smell home, I never forget that smell and that humidity. (Both laugh) Malindi: And the people and everything. But there were moments where I’m looking at it like it’s in a bubble and I’m outside of that bubble and I’m a stranger to that place. Mavishka: Right. �49 Malindi: And there were experiences that I mean I can get into, but like, where um in Sri Lanka we were visiting some temples and they have separate prices for tourists and separate prices for locals. And I was treated—they kept trying to charge me for the tourist price. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And they wouldn’t believe that I was a Sri Lankan until I showed them my passport, my Sri Lankan passport. And I—and they were in disbelief. And my last name, Lankatilleke, is such a native name to the country... Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And it has a lot of history and significance. That people were treating me like I’m an alien in my homeland was very, very hurtful. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: So, I had this like, first yearning to go home, and then when you’re home, you’re treated like an alien. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: You feel lost. So, I’ve been trying very hard to make Baltimore my home. Like you said I bought a house, building this career here. I love this town, love this city. I’m putting a lot of my time into developing this place and [said emotionally] making it my home. Um so, and I think it’s—it’s becoming my home. But I’m—it’s—I don’t forget my roots. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Yeah. Mavishka: And so, in making Baltimore your home, do you keep some of your Sri Lankan culture here with you too? Malindi: Yeah, it’s hard to separate that. �50 Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: So, I tried to um—I wish that—I regret that um I didn’t teach you our language. Well, I’m not really good at it anymore myself. (chuckles) I can speak it but reading and writing is hard in Sinhalese. And I wish I could teach you and your sister that. But I haven’t done that, I haven’t done a good job with that. But I try to keep the culture through like food and being close to our family that’s here. Um, things like that. But I do see that our culture has slipped away from us. Mavishka: Okay. Malindi: But I’m not sure like how tightly to hold onto it because I’m a stranger to that place too. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: But I’m a stranger to this place too. Mavishka: (laughs) Malindi: But because we’re in a diverse community—well, everywhere I go I’m the only Sri Lankan. So, I’m a stranger everywhere. Mavishka: Yeah. (laughs) Malindi: Yeah. Mavishka: Do you feel that um, well I guess, when you first came to America, you never imagined that your life would be where it is right now? Um, how did—how did your first impressions compare to um how you see America now? Malindi: Um, well when we—when I first came, I moved to Charlottesville which was a totally different place from Baltimore. And I have seen that—how diverse this country is. And um obviously through all our travels here to visit different places, that I can’t just um generalize �51 what America is. And that’s often what happens when you’re—when you live outside of America in other countries, people tend to have like this general view of what America is because it’s what they see on TV. It’s what they see on CNN. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: Or The Bold and The Beautiful. Mavishka: (laughs) Malindi: So, they have this image of America that I don’t have anymore because Baltimore is different from Kentucky and it’s like having all these different um countries in one. Mavishka: Yeah. Malindi: And I’ve really embraced that part of America. And I think that’s what makes America so great is—is being um—being this melting pot of different um histories. Mavishka: Right. Well, is there anything you’d like to tell me before we finish, before we wrap up? Malindi: Um well is there something you want me to focus on? I think my main focus is like, or my main experience that I take from the last twenty years of being here or—and before that, is just this sense of not belonging somewhere and always being in this like transient mind frame. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: And I don’t uh—I embraced it for the last—the early part of my life, but now um I need to—I feel like I need to set up my own roots here because I don’t want that transient lifestyle for you anymore and for your sister. I don’t want that. I want to be rooted. Mavishka: Right. Malindi: I have this drive to be rooted in a place. �52 Mavishka: Right. Malindi: I don’t know why, but I do, so that’s what I’m working to in this part of my life. Mavishka: Right well, that’s great. Thank you for your time and for telling your story. Malindi: Thanks. Mavishka: It’s very interesting. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2020 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Mavishka Lankatilleke Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Malindi Lankatilleke Location The location of the interview Baltimore City, Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data DOCX, MP3, JPG Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Malindi Lankatilleke Description An account of the resource This interview between Mavishka Lankatilleke and Malindi Lankatilleke explores her twenty-year long journey as an immigrant from Sri Lanka to the United States. Malindi emphasizes how the constant changes and leaving instilled in her a “temporary lifestyle” where she never felt like she belonged to one place. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2020). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Mavishka Lankatilleke Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 28, 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2019 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dercem Kaya Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nico Alvarez Location The location of the interview College Park, Prince George's County, Maryland, United States Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3, JPG Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Nico Alvarez Description An account of the resource This interview between Nico Alvarez and Dercem (Derc) Kaya explores Nico's experiences migrating as a child from Spain the United States. Nico discusses his experiences in school, his observations on cultural differences between Spain and the U.S., his parents' careers (which brought them to the U.S.), and the decision and ability to stay in the U.S. once his family moved back to Spain. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2019). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dercem Kaya Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 7, 2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource African and African Diaspora Immigrant Oral Histories Subject The topic of the resource Description An account of the resource This collection contains oral histories of migrants from Africa and the African Diaspora (drawn largely from the Caribbean, Central America, and South America). In April 2020, the Center for Global Migration Studies, in conjunction with the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of African American History and Culture, will hold a symposium entitled “Making African America: Immigration and the Changing Dynamics of Blackness.” The stories in this collection demonstrate some of the key themes of the symposium: transnational ties to homeland countries; the intersectional experience of being an immigrant and black in the United States; and migrants’ influences on U.S. culture, politics, and society. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, JPG, MP3, M4A Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Zachary Wathen Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Keith Yearwood, Ph.D. Location The location of the interview University of Maryland, College Park, Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3, JPG Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Keith Yearwood Description An account of the resource This interview between Dr. Keith Yearwood and Zachary Wathen explores Keith's experiences migrating from Guyana to England, Antigua, and ultimately the United States. Keith shares his observations about politics, the benefits of travel, and his appreciation for his US citizenship. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2019). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Zachary Wathen Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 11, 2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, JPG, MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History accent Barbuda brain drain Caribbean Citizenship colonialism community Corruption economy education England Europe Green Card Guyana higher education holidays politics postcolonialism race Socialism South America teacher Tortola travel US politics https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/688c29b754ed323f69d0f1d26d855865.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=GnuwnH-5ud8I9v0ngyqCIHM3NYB5D%7EoRUIkmNffiqSSPhIbvJS4FsiYLSeNCnhgZBwSJLjZoIJS7ybElCURXwvJx5Q8MbUBvESNRb-8gK%7EphnkzeoHMf1GIbIY3DQp4CWpDMjm7pJbxEKzrwVR9kcLt2Vo8fTqfYwVBcca2AT%7EPcCt-qk2Og5QTAVUN8CwOq4ZZh54BwkTVIbjuU9818NLkRoSBROI1qOlAbd03ov2pSnB9aAzN5JtRTxPbRYqB7XDpHzyx7XvBDj3iTwOEE2Edn0HMtG088dQ-JJzW9gtChxHDkAAA4YzAenj6wZyGdRz6Ti8dut-JW1fzfzh1WGA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 304db8a7852e4f4390d69d3fcadee785 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b361d9b32bc59b673ac6f99fde30dff7.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=HR9%7ErqF6796MNwQxFFmVGzUqkTM0ugnMSCd92VsGK%7EMYGxDeGmZFVzFwYb0-Yd6svBY-Ix1Lf6mKon%7EYbZuf8tYlljYVhHxyOLgxJtpsPRtjlImdgbrnTIbF5cOTy2dC7G6eMbrpCL5GJ0hXmEQBZByyQTthCYYUSphZQxvfQgL10h3QyYOY4nInbtZruuVokBGp-tPxRV5u2Fm2ShbHXUhpy-WihRZm9j1uuoTkC6Gi1KuimtU8crDj8thwYPz4-31PGbwLd07lTfv2Herr%7EK5a0mXw2F9ngPujhFD%7E8gbJa-YYjHAJ0lMY2qjewlaaQPGCtF7qKXnMweZC8M1T8g__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 391e7ea9aab29d6fa8d1582334f59aa7 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b0519eb4d6481ca2d234f8132ecebeee.mp3?Expires=1779926400&Signature=BqhJ77sH0ixwTnvofAI-Uf9HBfLr0qpohrGkfFeqJBDZ9stRC4iJbH-dcH5jV5-t84iUbHmmZ9faqkHR4MA2voRReXUIL4kiAHx-s-TtFmwVxMWZ3yLV9k5tSTvJGQ%7E1ZMaumr0-zrqBuuY%7EnQO4JLiqTKK2chZ6dmpSTV0HCdfYe4Z8LNzudbnvYuL-9VYjkadSRgKnV3fQ-Rfuagb0ToXgtbvkVB2Qq6piU2enUJChOXh43xi3zgJ7IQ4HNxr1K2lZ3pEU74Whn3gle7bnp%7EBTBaQ5-FLPXcE57TZghej8Xf1WOgj03xsKYeyz32c1B9RLr6K1YIdPQW3kKRgmeA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 40006e0e3712f2e8d9c00f12765e63ad Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2019 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Ivonne Gonzales Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Blanca Henriquez Location The location of the interview Silver Spring, Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MP3, PDF, JPG Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Blanca Henriquez Description An account of the resource This interview between Blanca Henriquez and Ivonne Gonzalez explores Blanca's experiences growing up during the Salvadoran Civil War and how she came to the United States. Blanca and her family were able to immigrate due to her father's work visa. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2019). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ivonne Gonzalez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 11, 2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3, PDF, JPG Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History American Dream Catholicism Central America childhood childhood migration Children civil war culture education El Salvador employment family family reunification gender roles grandparents Green Card higher education immigration process jobs language Language Barrier motherhood religion safety Salvadoran Civil War siblings traditions visa