1 10 68 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6828124cc6c782166bca03c82964144d.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=mx51g8xBVtnoO3PVXU%7EriVmt%7Epf-G64jjnY3S4UOc0sWTC5s%7E2OXisrqCLstL9D1t1k4Jql9lE5DGjGJhlf1K35iwrxSg6w%7EMMGOJeCzB379dCJ99DXlkWa0JqmFwggOSRc2uJI-8q2dbVGzssHtlMLrjrCJsoEmFsen98kA2T22VID3YDmUdOpwxo%7EnuFOaf3C0125LPr7DwarUOeeg11NSb-LxTZVDVH0ft6MLxsaJOPTJ0dEto34kfP5LM6VhTHIi9ElzxP68oiooXM2wWXfry56pgaFdKOKovY9sNHP2sCpIfCN93lpJYBMJuBKRa9QrKQIoXIOEjA0QP8Dclw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dora-Marie Groelsema Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Marie-Cécile Groelsema Location The location of the interview New Carrollton, Prince George’s County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Marie-Cécile Groelsema Description An account of the resource This interview between Dora-Marie Groelsema and Marie-Cécile Groelsema explores Marie-Cécile’s experiences as an immigrant to the United States from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Seeking to advance her education, she moved to the US in 1987 to Pittsburgh to study English at University of Pittsburg. Then she moved to Indiana and studied comparative literature with a minor in film studies and African studies at Indiana University. Marie-Cécile’s interview explores her education experience in the US and in other countries, her family memories, and her refusal to identify as an immigrant. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dora-Marie Groelsema Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 11, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, PDF Democratic Republic of the Congo education family identity literature university https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/27477e5ba06c01a7008a39dee6c14337.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=N%7E%7EFkhrZWcFU7LHwwTq0290aqfltcRlQSPsBDabnBOgl3mbXQYSizntA8%7EUMPuyemmfHtXWHgEokQZVKv71aE7uCu4u8cUVYuvjiHHEKUNBuCv2fnQjSuK6OxEKxngo%7EXtfF3ptb4ACdB612xqj50HYxDvAlPQwq0jNUJMb1J%7EOJd4OksGUDs5Y2LP4zVIO52WyzvNHzmfrbg6BxMKocwQSyat7Cf5ScvuLkZR8NVMHTQbgHRGe5eL7wyOGnYt4o65DDT%7EdUlOF5iCfg1oQfdFR6I7HJ7MuYzFTpAdcJv-twr7NHkPq5ZfwS-pLf%7ENJ-3mR2EyqD9dKvZodt8HBMrg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Abigail I. Carbajal Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Cecia A. Turcios Location The location of the interview Lanham, Prince George’s County, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Cecia Turcios Description An account of the resource This interview between Abigail Carbajal and Cecia Turcios explores Turcios’ experiences as an immigrant to the United States of America from El Salvador. Her father had moved to the United States ten years before and was working to get them to move here. Eventually, he was able to obtain green cards for Turcios and her mother and moved them over here to start a better life. Turcios’s interview touches on her struggles with her educational dreams after moving and to find motivation to pursue her dreams in such a big country without knowing English. Until this day Turcios emphasizes the importance of having a person to teach you that education is important and how she continues to do this for her own kids. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Abigail I. Carbajal Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Daniela Lopez Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Lizzett Contreras Location The location of the interview Urbana, Frederick County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Lizzett Contreras Description An account of the resource This interview between Daniela Lopez and Lizzett Contreras explores Lizzett’s experiences growing up in El Salvador, her family dynamics, and the reasons behind their immigration to the United States. Contreras provides vivid insights into her childhood, education, and the challenges her family faced due to the political unrest in their home country. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Daniela Lopez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource mp4, PDF, jpeg Language A language of the resource English Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History civil war cultural transition education El Salvador family Green Card guerilla https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/8101ab9d0933fc5e30e0bf4616ea2b9e.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=vKt6npYJYBeMKw%7EsqLqxqB%7Ek3sP9QDO1C9YTAsibiYYFA4WZXwEYsrR0GF8P3y8MXks-d-y8TZDNlkUd0BvLSqEPrCLTOyIxRZyh78IrQ1HPI14xWSP7gONVwpZjFQghvwrZnk3tHAhl8O4h83Dome-gecn5NZgI78e3Af9Q%7Exw0f-LSEoNk1v29I7bm8AWL21iLQ37va-aaMoDLPZys6GKWfYOoVgfPeWFLujmMrmwKN4jQ72mamLHMR5ZibJIPXJUqkadzIS6qYkEpbCqRdchZOfHBWS3Z9mxBVw0duj51aqWKtARj6I1aZZ7eAq9sVTgoOyrsGs2g8tHxSVXkMg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 08ca2efc5aebcb3dc49943609650babc https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/859fd4cdb9a9d04edc5c078c3eef28c9.m4a?Expires=1779926400&Signature=N2-6cSTlRTPas%7Exj35S9UsfRYrLHKf2nGbKZrFsKf367lV74spqdevcn-CMDrXTlQHPY3dp1YvtpIWRB4O-JTISMBsXxHqLBavqIJtovmbsrKQ8mYYiVow8T8kWLktywDUSZM8bb79n8Kt0lAQtMFufmVIM8Qzb4gbqK3Uzrz0EQTnvPdKaXkv4-1wDkF8yWVaPHy3W-pNTZZ1vk9SdjHKgC7MW5PDVyJvwUtDXv1qJG4i%7EfG9LJXYZDEVIM5Ii2cJHYMUP672HF%7EGdLaZx7uVUadvFsqIQBceuyiKL2VZ8dhXuN-m1W82uhVXMHK-yX8ts%7E4Z%7ErHJYkufZURX%7E6mw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM a37ba86aa2504976fb98b8db4bd437a0 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/152da5e26506db715f5db91563408783.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=lqR0bbof8jsK5uJNWUXeVnVMjHYg6r-JprlFmYoHRiamhS%7ENidUjCQzwZWPiXbA-aoQC3%7END-%7EkPINhEE7oD66aiI9kNd1O65nuZ7d4f2DjiZSRrfF6rzvssw01K3L-2kjy447v6HpLyWOx4Koh0p-OMNokjjUBquQmeE-B-3ia0x8ZMRQUjptBKYePiUL2MhDTw7Fs-3W1wdXwXYXXctMvYvZMD9JiF4sZSaQMGeS6215C55J-eQY0Jgf0MYX1UfoqW2wa1jgpV0683azy3YBu-W31Uo4HJQrM0HO0g9Hn4b%7EnIkR%7EMStrKCF%7EIe1mJ8w2r%7ELqxWr7%7EqlyNC6u1Qw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c24fb275a6c352e2b0315b5104021e4 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4f1721f28b6d47ba10296762a7279c74.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=VyPKDvYXXUGfoPGU9MHOrfqIb-qgGUD5Ct-p%7EqxLfjgLt3Ws15DcHRFE3zLT4rxj0HNUdolEhSzgsu2Egaw4%7ETMwbD2oRwJJQ6lgyRSekXusk6y8a4mKmz4PYURcGxDto1PZfJ7nl3p5fGIGn3djUnauBmS4DnSwG19Byh0AaXBPhHvP8UPVWuTqXCbqJX8y-utzLPP9PYfHNsrZRRdJ%7ELjQwI%7E0jIi%7EMCkiDxwZ4AevXYjfjoSgF9X4iuzwrC%7E9Ws-l0C1UH-soudiYYYJ8B2cQWIwC9voV94y32UMRUeO3%7ER9VnN98znV2EEtwdeGoyVTr6GcvBI5Hwwp6hIA54Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM d736b3e465ca2c4ada2f5e53782cb794 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/005201174d29d4911d2a9bac604b1309.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=jJ2gRP4NWQcO06rlhCzEfJdoYNNtACL92ZpUNyfxUgMJqGlrT6fAlpEMGKzaiYQCBrYz2ylgj-m1eAQ3crdS6H%7ETT6jI9OHnPVkb%7E76gvLwFgcVI0XVVS2OGmA1KjcHz82PUJoCPtAVFoNHErY5zMSpkOY5rwR9necm2wxbnIQyrZdl4zK3LeutijqTok%7EyICNyqZASmtELc8v3BDUOhFLT8txzSS-aewfSpOND3lYu0DLizABjroh%7EI2wUdywT5KNZU2mEEh0mOddwHDmslY5CpxsoIeppg0V7sy68Q%7E57XdAZ3dUZetTB1uraKb%7EReh9GNCa35TyByGKDGNlJf-w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 992d81ddefed7102182102fdb34dde1f PDF Text Text 1 Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course HIST 465-Spring 2024 Instructor: Dr. Anne S. Rush Interviewer’s name: Lori Zhao Interviewee’s name: Jiwu (George) Chen Narrator’s Country of Origin: China Narrator’s Current Residence: Ellicott City, Howard County, MD, U.S.A. Date of Interview: March 24, 2024 Place of Interview: Ellicott City, Howard County, MD, U.S.A. Introduction: This interview between Lori Zhao and George (nickname) Chen, a 61-year-old Chinese immigrant, explores George’s experience as a Chinese immigrant in the U.S. George was born in Tianjin, China, growing up under socialist China. As he grew up, China’s economic and political policy begin changing, which impacts George’s career opportunities and trajectories. George’s interview discusses differences between life in the U.S. and China, his educational background during China’s transitional period, and the different career trajectories taken during his life. Through the interview, we see that throughout George’s life, he has been continuously inspired by and embraces the freedoms that led him to make life-altering choices, following what he has wanted since childhood. Keywords: China, student, socialism, government, education, freedom, business Zhao: Hello, um-my name is Lori Zhao. Today is March 24th, 2024, and I'm here with Jiwu Chen. We are conducting an oral history interview at his home in Ellicott City. So, just to get started with some easy introduction questions, how are you today? Chen: Good. Zhao: Yes. Chen: It's a beautiful Sunday. Zhao: Yes. I did forget to add this is also my father. His legal name is Jiwu Chen, but his nickname is George. Chen: Yeah. �2 Zhao: Umm. Yeah, so you were just in China, like earlier this week, right? Chen: Yeah, I came back on March the twelve, like two weeks ago. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. How was the trip? Chen: Very good. It's my first trip this year. I had the same trip-uh, same kind of trip three times last year. I'm leaving for China again for Canton Fair on April the 17th. Zhao: Oh, okay. And you said that your son Daniel is going with you this time, right? Chen: Yeah, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. So when you go, are you just going to Canton in Guangzhou or other places? Chen: Canton is for business. It's a business trip, basically. The biggest trade show is in Canton. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: We will stay there for a week. And from there, maybe we uh, go different route. Daniel will go. He likes to see Shanghai, tour China, s-part of it. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Me, I may go to continue with my business trip to some factories. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Is Daniel going to be traveling by himself or are you traveling with him? Chen: Most part of the trip, he will stay with me. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And so for business, can you tell me a bit about the business that you do? Chen: Yeah. I'm in the wholesale dis-uh, distribution business. In fact, we import merchandise from China. Ah-we wholesale them here to the…gift shops, momma and poppa store, and garden centers, and gift shops and some big, ke-key chain stores like TJ Maxx, Home Goods, these kinds of things. �3 Zhao: Yeah. It sounds like your company should be very well known then. (Chuckles) Chen: Yeah. (both chuckle) Part of it. Zhao: Okay. Um, can you tell me your date of birth? Chen: Mm-hmm. I was born in 1962. Ah…I was born on October thirtieth, 1962. Zhao: Okay. Ah, what can you tell me about where you grew up? Chen: Yeah. The age where I was born was the communist China, 1960s, 70s up ‘till the late 1980s before China opened the door to the outside world. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, we're basically a very conservative kind of communist country, yeah, (Zhao: Okay) under communist China. Zhao: Yeah. And in China, where did you live? Can you describe the area or the community that you grew up in? Chen: I was born in the country, the-a village. Uh, it's about a hundred miles away from Beijing, the capital of China. And, uh, the living condition is pretty, I mean, backward compared with now, you know, 1960s communist China, you can imagine. But everything is okay. So we uh, live from hand to mouth, work for the, we call it brigade or the community. Uh, it's under communist, uh, rule (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and everybody has his own share and uh, very much ah, we lived happy, happy life. Yeah. Zhao: So, it sounds like collectivized agriculture almost, where it's like you-every co- every person in the community, I'm guessing, has like their own little patch of land. And that is what you use for your... Chen: Yeah, (Zhao: Okay) It's kind of uh, uh, everything is given: your share, your income through the community leaders. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, the community leaders, they chosen by the entire community and under communist rule. So, it's like, kind of utopia. It sounds kind of utopian. Zhao: That sounds amazing. (Laughs) Chen: Yeah, it sounds rea-but, uh. Yeah, you work, you do what you can. And then for me, my age, you know, from baby and then grew up and then kids in school are free up till I got my elementary, middle school, high school, everything is free. Uh, in Medicare, we don't really have kind of Medicare, but we don't really need medicine, uh-not kind of medicine. And (Zhao: Mmm, okay) so basically, the life is simple and uh, simple, easy. Yeah. �4 Zhao: And can you clarify really quickly? You said this is roughly one hundred miles outside Beijing. Chen: Mm-hmm. Zhao: Which province? Chen: Yeah, in Tianjin. Zhao: Tianjin? Okay. Chen: Tianjin is a…is a big city. Yeah it’s (Zhao: Mm-hmm) about- the city is like-uh… 40 miles away from Beijing. And we are under the municipal city of Tianjin, big Tianjin. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: And we are living in a small village. Zhao: Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So, what did a day in your life as a child look like? This can be when you were younger, middle school, high school. Chen: What do you mean day? Zhao: Like uh, how would your entire day look from when you wake up, you know, breakfast until you go to bed? Chen: Yeah, I was born in traditional family, you know. Uh, my mom cooked the breakfast, you know, when I was a kid, since I could remember something. And that's from the school age, you know, mom cooked the breakfast and dad left to work. And then out of breakfast, we go to school. It's a public school, and uh, everything is so simple. And school, basically, we don't have like first year, second year-grades, first grade, second grade. We have one classroom which is the size of, uh, let's say three hundred feet, square feet. And we have maybe two different grade merged in one class, in one classroom, and some classes, maybe classroom, has three grades merged. But uh, yeah. Zhao: So how many kids were in a grade? Chen: Uh… Zhao: Was there like a few hundred? Chen: No, not that much. We-our village has total population of five hundred to six hundred people. Zhao: Ohhh. Chen: So, we have let's say from grade one, second grade, third grade, fourth grade, and fifth grade, that's elementary school. It's around twenty, thirty kids for each grade. Zhao: Ohhh, okay okay. �5 Chen: Yeah, but in Chinese classroom is big, big! I mean, the room is not big, but the capacity is big. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: They can pack as much as they can. So, we don't have enough teachers. The teachers are all chosen from the local farmer, which had a certain kind of education level. (Zhao: Ahh) They can teach, suppose, one plus one, two plus two. As long as they know this, they can teach this. (Both laugh) Zhao: So, when-speaking of your teachers, because of the Cultural Revolution, (Chen: Mmhmm) your teachers are farmers, right? Was there anything that you remember being taught as a kid specifically? Or anything that stands out to you, by any chance? Chen: Yeah, we-I mean, as a memory, it was sweet, you know, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) really. You enjoy everything free and no pressure. Like, like nowadays, (Zhao: Mmm yeah) you have everywhere in the world, you have financial pressure or situation, everything. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) Those years, everything, life is simple. You know? You go to school and the pencil can last a couple of months, not like now. Nowadays, kids may have ten, twenty pencils and you can see pencils everywhere. And so…we don't have money. But…then…the life we have is very, I can say, we live in a very affluent abundancy. Zhao: Mmm, okay. Chen: You know? Because you have no need for anything luxury or anything more than…more than what you…(Zhao: Right) what are your basic needs. You know? Zhao: So, when you were living there, were you aware of what life was like in Beijing? Chen: Uh-yeah! (Zhao: So, did you-) That's the, that’s the kind of dream. You know, Beijing beverybody knows big city. (Zhao: Mmm) In big cities, then you have better life. And, uh, so government pays more. And poor farmers, you know, you don't have that much kind of uh…life standard. Zhao: Right, right. Chen: You know, life standard is different compared the urban area (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and the rural area. Zhao: Okay, I see. Chen: Complete difference. Zhao: Yeah. So, uhm, now going to your family, do you remember hearing stories from your parents or grandparents describing their lives? �6 Chen: Uh, yeah, they told about something about their back- their kids, their life, which is in the Qing Dynasty. (Both laugh) Zhao: Yeah. Chen: So- and my father, in fact, talk about uh, his experience in, in fighting Japanese, we call it the anti-Japanese War. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: It’s a eight-year war when China was involved fighting the Second World War. It’s before the exact Second World War, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) you know, in the late 1930s. Yeah, what happened to him. And my mom, simple, also ah…from a farm-farmer's family, (Zhao: Mmhmm) and then married early at the age of uh, 16, 17 years old, got married. Zhao: Oh. Goodness. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Did your father have any stories from the wars that you remember? Chen: Yeah, my father always told me, you know…Ah, he has to leave because the Japanese, they have machine gun. Zhao: Oh. (Chuckles) Chen: (Chuckles a bit) And my father has, their unit, only have bricks! They had to throw bricks to the Japanese soldier, and then run. So, there's no way to survive there. So, then my father, my mother always complained, “you see, your dad quit again and again.” And I have two other uncles, they fought to the end, and then they became high…government officials. (Zhao: Mmhmm) But then my father would say, “oh, if I stayed there, I might have been killed!” (Zhao laughs) you know? (both laugh) Zhao: Yeah. Chen: “Fortunately, I quit. So that's why I survived.” Yeah. Zhao: Right. In the end, your uncles got lucky, really. ‘Cuz what were the odds. Chen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, they became uh, at the state governor level, yeah (Zhao: Mm-hmm) where all the top uh…government officials, the local government. Zhao: Yeah. When you were younger, did you feel any, like, bitterness or resentment toward your father for leaving? Since you…(mumbles) �7 Chen: No (Zhao: Okay) no, because you don't have any expectation, you don’t have much expectation. You don't know what the outside world is. Zhao: Mmm. Chen: So, you have food, you're happy. And sometimes food is simple. You may complain about it to the mom, but everybody else is the same, you know? We have neighboring kids, everybody, we just play. Yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And did you grow up with any siblings? Chen: Mm-hmm. I have three older brothers, elder brothers. But my eldest brother left the family to work in a mine, coal mine, at the age of thirteen. Zhao: Wow Chen: And then my second brother left the home, joined the army from uh, middle school. So that's early, (Zhao: Wow) very early. And then he came, he been back five years later, he served in the service for five years. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: And then he became a university student. And my third brother, ten years older than me, worked as a farmer. You know. Zhao: Oh, okay. Chen: And uh, that's my family. But basically, I stayed, my sib-the only sibling I stayed with is my third elder brother. So, so as a farmer, because the other two brothers already left the family a long time ago. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. So then, when you were growing up, it was really like your mother, father, uh, third brother. Chen: Yeah, third brother me. Zhao: And then you. Chen: Yeah, me. Zhao: Okay. �8 Chen: And my third brother is ten years age, so basically he went to work every day as a farmer, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) do farming job. And me, is like single kid. So, playing with the neighboring kids. Zhao: Oh, okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Do you have any recollections or memories of playing with the neighbors? Chen: Yeah, yeah. I can say I have a very happy childhood. Yeah, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) yeah. We play, yeah. Enjoy the life, yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: We uh, you know, catch birds. (Zhao suppresses laugh, Chen chuckles) Yeah. And then, catch fishes, fish. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah, okay. So, moving on, as you were growing up, uh, I believe you went to university after finishing your primary education, correct? Chen: Yeah. Yeah, I finished the high school. At the time when I was in high school, China already started…opening to the outside world. So, we see, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) in fact, I'm at the second year or third year of high schooler who had, had the chance to get into the nationwide college entrance examination. Before that, we don't have college entrance examination, (Zhao: oh wow, yeah) even though there were Chinese, there were colleges and universities, but no test needed. Basically, the local government officials…they referred to some kids, then they can get to the college (Zhao: Mm-hmm) without a test. Yeah, that's how my second brother got into the Hebei University, which is a state university. It's like Maryland State University. Zhao: Okay. So then when you were applying for university, you had to take the college entrance exams? Chen: Yeah, yeah. It's a fortunateZhao: -Is it the gao kao as well?1 Chen: Yeah, we call it the college entrance examination, yeah. Zhao: Okay. 1 Interviewer’s note: the gao kao is China’s national undergraduate admission examination. �9 Chen: So, it's, it’s ah, it’s fortunate I had the chance to get into the test. And- unfot- it’s unfortunate thing(since?) I had to work hard to pass the test. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah, how difficult was it? Chen: Yeah, difficult uh, it’s the enrollment rate. The-I mean, the percentage of college, uh entrance is only three percent by the year. Zhao: Wow. Chen: By the year I graduated from high school. Yeah. Zhao: Oh, wow. Chen: So, it's rare, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) three percent nationwide. So, it’sZhao: And what's the university? Chen: Yeah. I got into a teacher's college, which means after graduate, I'll be a teacher. I’ll be a teacher. So I stay out there for two years and after graduate, I became a teacher. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah, this is my first uh, college education. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: And so, when you were, to my knowledge, when um, Chinese students take the gaokao, (Chen: Mm-hmm) based on their scores, that determines what they end up studying, right? Chen: Yeah. Score is the only standard. That's it. They don't look at anything else. Even now, still the same. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: So, were you always interested in being a teacher? Chen: Ahh, no. Not that. Because the social, uh…socially the teacher has the least pay. And at the bottom of the society so those years, 1980s, (Zhao: Ah, yeah) that's why, yeah, I made up my mind trying to get out to quit the job, like my father quit the army, (both laugh) to get out to the job. �10 Zhao: Yeah. Chen: And then, but-fortunately I got another chance to get into the Beijing University of Foreign Studies. (Zhao: Mmm) So that's my second college, ah, second college in-in my life. Yeah. And from there, I got my bachelor degree, get my, uh, bachelor degree of English Literature. Zhao: Okay. And mmm, around what year did you get your bachelor's degree in literature? Chen: That was in ni-1989. (Zhao chuckles) Where, that's the same year where the Tiananmen Square event occurred. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Or we call it here, Tiananmen Massacre. Yeah. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so are you saying that you were an undergraduate student getting your bachelor's in 1989? Chen: Mm-hmm. Zhao: Okay. Uhm, what was it like going to university with that going on? Since you were there at, I believe, some of the protests, right? Chen: Yeah, yeah. I was one of them. Yeah. All college kids, no exceptions for everyone. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. But how has the event impacted your life? Chen: Very deep. Now, first off, we see what is real, what did people pursue, you know? Democracy, freedom, and people…sacrificed their lives for that. And…but then, the government, they crushed it. SoZhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Uh, It's a question of did their deaths worth it for young kids, young people? And the other thing is, ever since then, China is back to, back to normal, back to the previous communism again. Ah-you know, tyranny, still the same kind of uh, communist (Zhao: Right) government. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: So, nothing changed, even worse, you know? (Zhao addresses dog and mumbles Hi Milky) �11 Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah, I see. And you mentioned that, so when studying English literature, what was your curriculum? Are there- like what did you read? What were they teaching you in university? Chen: Yeah. Ah, we uh- basically, language. The language has wide range of subjects. First of all, language, l-listening, reading, reading comprehension, you know, writing. And then literature, you had to read lots of books, uh, British, English books, and then from America, all the English-speaking countries, and then history, and ah society, or we call it social studies. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. And then also kind of translation things. Yeah. Zhao: Okay. And so, since you got into the foreign studies school, um, how many languages did they have you learn? What is the school preparing you for? Chen: Yeah, we, as uh, as uh foreign language is our major, you have to get another language, a second foreign language, as ah, kind of ah, to be qualified to graduate. So, my second foreign language is French. The FrenchZhao: What's the first one? Chen: The first is English. (Zhao chuckles) Chen: English is the major, yeah. Zhao: Okay. And I'm guessing that you take classes in French as well? Chen: Yeah. Okay. Zhao: Okay. Now, the people in your program, and you included, what did you end up doing after you got your bachelor's degree? Chen: Then ah, I became ah- back to my original school again, because of the government rule. So, after work two more years as a high school teacher again, so I tried to get into the ah, graduate school (Zhao: mkay) to further my studies. So, I realized that's the only way to change my life completely (Zhao: Mmm, so how-) instead of being a high school teacher or, or in, in this job. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. �12 Zhao: Yeah, so can you tell me about how you got to graduate school and where you went from there? Chen: Again, the national test. So, we have a nationwide of six percent of uh, enrollment uhh for the- for that year, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) but I got to the six percent. So, I got, fortunately, into the uh, graduate school, which is two years of study, and my major was comparative studies between East and West and translation. Zhao: Okay, and what university were you in? Chen: It's called, it’s the Beijing University of International Relations. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And um, do you have anything that that is memorable, like sticks out to you about your time in graduate school? Or any like fond memories that you look back on? Chen: Yeah, yeah. We have six people in one class. The professor is fun… Um, he ah, you can hear his laugh, laughter from long, from further away, yeah… He uh, had his education, college education, here in America. And ah, (Zhao: Ooh) he was those years, when he was my professor, he was almost seventy years old. So, he, uh, (Zhao: Wow), his father, his father-inlaw, his wife's father was the, uh, Secretary of the…Secretary of the Textile Department of the Guomindang government, (Zhao: mmm) so then they can afford sending him to (Zhao: Right) America to study. Oh, yeah. And then heZhao: and he was employed at Beijing? Chen: Yeah, Beijing, yeah. Zhao: Okay. Were there any like views that he might have shared during his classes? Chen: Yeah…He- uh, his ah, his major is in the Chinese culture. You know, we have Daoism, Confucius, you know (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and how what he teaches is the difference of Chinese culture and Western culture, and also the interpretation or translation of all these Chinese, ancient Chinese books, like Daoism, yeah, (Zhao: Yeah) to translate into the English, yeah. Zhao: Okay, so you've had to translate some works as well? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: For practice? Chen: Mm-hmm (makes sound in agreement) �13 Zhao: Okay. Um, what were some differences between your undergraduate and graduate experience? Chen: It's a further, it's a big step forward. I mean, more advanced and more further study into both cultures, the Western cultures and Chinese cultures. So, we really, even we grew up in China, but at the time when I, before I finished high school, we’re basically in the communist China. So, then in my high school, the end of my high school year, China started open to the outside world. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: So. What we, the education we had as kids, is basically communism, Marxism, Lenin, the previous Soviet Union style, this kind of thing. So we don't really know anything about Chinese, ancient culture, which is a precious thing. The Chinese culture, we don't know, because Mao, as the president of the first new, first president of new China. So basically he hates all the ancient Chinese culture, (Zhao: yeah) so we don't have any contact or any channel to get into the real Chinese culture at all until (Zhao: Ohhh) I get into this graduate program. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Then I know, oh, we have our own philosophy, Chinese culture, Chinese philosophy compared to the Western one, yeah. It's the same age, two thousand years ago, Confucius and Daoism and Dao. Zhao: Yeah. Do you think you can give an example of some of the differences between Chinese culture and Western culture, or even U.S. culture? Chen: Erh, mmm… Zhao: Or what were some of the main, uh, let's say like, world views that were used…? Chen: To be more specific, be more specific. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. The U.S. history is very short. You cannot search U.S. culture or history by comparing with China, basically two-five thousand years of uh, history. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, only U.S. only has modern, contemporary history, all kinds of philosophy, you know? Zhao: Right. Chen: China has…has uh, you know, uh, deep, uh, and uh…rich history and culture (Zhao: Yeah) from two thousand years ago, yeah. Zhao: Yeah, so just to clarify, when you were growing up, they didn't teach like Confucius values, Confucian values? �14 Chen: Uh, Before high school? Or… Zhao: Yeah, before high school? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: They didn’t? Chen: We didn't, we didn’t. Zhao: Okay. And then after hag-high school, you started learning? Chen: Yeah, after that age, China started open to China. So, (Zhao: Okay) people can see right now the kids in school, in Chinese high school, even still with communist rule, they have part of classes eh, introducing Chinese culture and Chinese history, you know? Zhao: Mmm, okay. Yeah. So, after you finished your graduate degree, where did you go and what did you end up doing? Chen: Then I went to work for a private company in a island, it's called Hainan Island, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and, when I was in my graduate school, the Hainan was just started to be hot land for investment and foreign uh, investment and these joint ventures. So, I decided, instead of working for the government anymore, to explore my own career in this private land (Zhao: Mm-hmm) with more freedom, so that's where I intended to go. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: And I did go there (Zhao: Mm-hmm) for a couple more years, yeah. Zhao: And it sounds like your educational background led you to kind of be more interested in the private enterprise? Chen: Yep, the uh… the job basically, the career has nothing to do with what we learn, you know. Zhao: Right Chen: Yeah- based on my major, I should work for the government and I should work in the field where I can use my uh, my education, that's the English as tool, as language tool, but I didn't like that to be as a government employee working for government anymore, so that's why. But then, I work, when you work for the comp- for the corporate company, which is completely different because you don't have anything you are good at, to work at a private company, so you have to start from the very beginning. Zhao: Ohhh, okay. Chen: Yeah. �15 Zhao: And your, your classmates when you were in graduate school, they ended up working for the government? Chen: Yeah, most of them, 99% uh, go to the government Zhao: What type of jobs? Chen: Yeah so we, (Zhao: In the government…) you can go to the foreign ministry or uh, any joint ventures a government uh…government organizations which are related to foreign of anything with foreign affairs, yeah. (Zhao: Okay so-) And they got pretty good job, pretty good pay. Zhao: Yeah Chen: Yeah. Zhao: So, it sounds like diplomacy or even like embassy workChen: Yeah, diplo, that’s why I came to here, some my friends, some of my classmates were in Chinese Embassy. Zhao: Ohh, okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. So, uhm, now when you were in Hainan, can you tell me a bit more about this company you worked for and what that was like? Chen: Ah, first of all, I work in the real-realtor real estate company; we developed land and build-buildings and uh, that was short experience. I work as a secretary, basically, to write some articles for the general manager (Zhao: Mm-hmm) or as a generous (general) manager secretary, write something and uh… to dispose the local government officials’ bad behavior, this kind of thing (Zhao giggles) so thatZhao: So, it’s like a journalist, almost. Chen: Yeah, so that this kind of (Zhao: Okay) this general manager can convince his case against government, it's like this. And then, eh, I tried…I changed a different job, which is working in the security, uh, stock market company, to work in their security department. It’s not a security guard but working in trying to get the company into…from private company to become a public company. Zhao: Ohhh, okay. Chen: Yeah, it's kind of a, public, uh…what's that, public relations department. Zhao: Mmm, okay, (Chen: Mm-hmm) I see. And yeah, so how long were you living in Hainan for? �16 Chen: Two years. Zhao: Two years? Chen: Yeah, two years and after that, I got the chance to get into ah, to move to Guangzhou, Guangdong province, which is where attract- this promise attracted more uhm, foreign investment than anywhere in China, so (Zhao: Yeah) it was so hardZhao: Because of Deng Xiaoping’s policy? Chen: Yeah, Deng Xiaoping’s policy, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: It was so hard, so then I was-I got the job from-uh referred through friends, get a job from a…American company. They make jewelry in a countryside factory, yeah. Zhao: Okay and uh, the referral was from friends that you had through graduate school? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Then I got uh, I became a manager of that factory. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Can you tell me a bit more about what it was like working there? Chen: Yeah, we were- we make uh jewelries and imitation jewelries, kind of a decoration things, and the company is located in Long Island ah, New York. Zhao: Oh! okay. Chen: And yeah, they sell to uh…many many customers, thousands of customer here- let’s say Claire's, Icing, (Zhao: Ohhh) all these kids' jewelries, each has over three thousand stores (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and uh, other home decor… thin- home decor companies. So, it's two, two kids, two young guy, they're uh…promising, you know, very hard-working two guys. They set up this factory in the Guangdong area. Zhao: Yeah. And are they (Chen: yeah) uh, Chinese? Chen: Ah, no they're American. Zhao: Okay. �17 Chen: Yeah, they're American yeah and then, (Zhao: Mmm) I basically, my job is to manage the factory for them and get your orders and then, now I use my major translate their orders, in English to Chinese and give it to all different department in the factory to produce, the process the factory, process the order. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: How long did you live in Guangdong for? Chen: I lived, I worked there for five years. Zhao: Okay, wow. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. (Chen: Mm-hmm) And from there, did you have any other jobs? BeforeChen: Ah no, that's it. (Zhao: Okay) That's my most precious experience in life because my major is in language, which is the language as a tool. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) As you manage factory, which is like you own the factory, you have to deal with different departments, different things (Zhao: Right) all sorts of things. The local people basically, they are tough and all workers are young. Young, eighteen year- eighteen to twenty-five years old and you know, we have uh, they have a strike. They went on (Zhao: Ohhh) strike two times a year. (Zhao: Okay) Every year, they would, uh, they have two times strike a year, they don't- they quit job, so then what we do: give them the raise again so everybody come back to factory. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, you have to deal with this kind of situation. Zhao: I see. Chen: Yeah. Humanely, this is tough and then uh the other thing is basically these people, workers, they don't have any trained experience (Zhao: Mmm) so you have to train them, uh, discipline them, and teach them how to do- to do a good job to raise to improve the efficiency of their production. Yeah. Zhao: Mmm okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Um, I had a question on this but I forgot… Yeah so it sounds like this is a very big factory, (Chen: Yeah, I-) how many people were there…? Chen: Yeah, at the time I entered the factory, there were only eighty workers. By the time I left the factory, we have thousand workers, which is (Zhao: Oh wow) several big, big �18 buildings,(Zhao: Mm-hmm) yeah. We ship jewelry to America by forty-foot containers (Zhao chuckles) imagine how many jewelry is a bracelet, necklace can forty of the container holds, (Zhao: Yeah) million pieces. Yeah, we have at least one of the containers every month to America. One made- one container’s jewelry. Zhao: Oh, my goodness. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Then your, your two bosses must have made a lot of money? Chen: Yeah, they made money. I made, I work hard for them, so give me a bonus, they gave me a good- good pay in China, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) so I make in U.S. dollars two thousand dollars a month back in the early nineteen-ninties, which is (Zhao: Wowww) which is uh, incredible, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) yeah. Zhao: Yeah, wow. Um, what led you to leave the company? Since after that you immigrated to the U.S., correct? Chen: Yeah. My- I have brother in Virginia, (Zhao: Mkay) so he would like me to help to come here, to help him. He owns newspaper, so then I thought about it, but I thought okay, let me start my own career. And uh, still, I didn't quit until, uh, basically, have some problem with my boss in America here, yeah. Zhao: Mmm, okay. Chen: They promised me year, and after year give me a raise, give me a raise, give me a raise for, but they didn't keep their promise until the outside. Okay, (Zhao: Ohhhh) I have to leave. So then, I had to leave. By the time I leave, he said, “Look we'll give you a big raise, how about a big raise plus bonus?” I said too late (Zhao: laughs) yeah. Then, (Zhao: yeah) I came here with a visitor visa. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah my brother as a sponsor here in Virginia, (Zhao: Right) in the States, yeah help me. Zhao: Yeah. What, what would you consider the most difficult parts about leaving China? Chen: Uh, the biggest difference is here, in America, basically, people live- everybody has their independent life, you know. The house are detached, separate from each other, (Zhao: Mmhmm) except some apartments, but people, they have more uh, private life. In China, we don't really have this kind of ah, privacy. So, uh if you…the half of your life [dog barks] you spend you live in the kind of community [dog barks] everybody is so close to each other [dog barks] and then [dog barks] friends, you [dog barks] know, relatives, family, bonding together. And then to leave this kind of environment, (Zhao: Mmm) and then you came to a different, foreign land, where you don't know anybody else, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) unless in the street with me. Someone you say hi, and that's it. So this is completely different and this is uh, for a stranger to �19 be here, is sad because (Zhao: Ohh) you lost the friendship, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) the family, and you mean…th-the entire environment you had is gone (Zhao: Mmm) and you had to be, to learn to be used to this completely- complete different kind of life. Yeah. Zhao: Oh, okay. And um, what year did you immigrate here? Chen: Ah, 1998. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah, May nine-May thirtieth, 1998. That’s the year I landed here in America, formally. Zhao: So, you were thirty-five? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Thirty-five, wow. Chen: Mm-hmm. Zhao: That means you already spent basically most- if not yeah- a good portion of your life in China? Chen: It’s thirty-five. Zhao: Yeah, wow. (Laughs) Chen: Yeah. (Chuckles) Zhao: Okay. Chen: Those are the precious thirty-five years it is, young ma- young man, you know? Zhao: Yeah, what did you expect the U.S. to be like, since you even studied a lot about… Chen: Yeah, we, it's uh…We didn't, I didn't expect it that much, so basically I don't feel big difference because we know something, what's American life is like. Yeah. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So, uh, still, you feel detached, you feel, uh, not so, uh, easily, uh, fit into the life here. Yeah. Zhao: How did you handle that? Yeah, it's just, uh, uh…you know, now I'm Christian. I know the way, I can pray. Those years, yeah, I- I wasn't Christian yet, not bapt-chris- I don't know anything about Christi- Christianity. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So, as a Chinese, yeah, none of us. So then you have to try to…with your own self-discipline or self-control, (Zhao: Mmm) you know? Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Try to overcome these kind of uh, difficulties, yeah. �20 Zhao: Yeah. Yeah. So, where were you living? Chen: Yeah, in, uh, Fairfax, Virginia. Zhao: Yeah. Were you living with your brother? Chen: The first ah, two years I live my brother. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: And youChen: And after I, uh, uh. I started dating a girl, my wife, so then I moved out, and rent an apartment in Fairfax. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And at that time, were you working um, for your brother's newspaper? Chen: A little bit. A little bit because (Zhao: Okay) I'm not, you know, uh, had any knowledge of journalism at all. Zhao: Mmm, right. Chen: So, I help him a little bit deliver newspaper things, helped him uh, go with him to all different parties, trying to learn something. But I don't feel like I can get into his world, (Zhao: mmm) which is a world with all these kind of politicians, a lot, you know. Zhao: Right. Chen: Because I was in the business circle in China, business people have different behavior or different custom compared with politicians. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) It's different way. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: And can you tell me a bit more about his newspaper? Chen: Yeah. His newspaper is called Asian Fortune and serving all the Asian communities. Yeah. The majority of his readers are these uh, Korean immigrants, people from Vietnam, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and some Chinese. And Northern Virginia has a big population of Asian minorities, Asian people. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So Asian minority is big, yeah big people. Big �21 population. (Zhao: Oh okay, yeah) So then he has a lot of these readers from these countries. Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: So, who support his business. And uh, the newspaper basically has the- got the income only from the commercial, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Mm. Zhao: And the politicians that he was meeting with, they were everyone, right? Chen: Everywhere. Zhao: D.C.? Chen: Yeah, D.C. area, all the political circle, c-congressmen, senators, you know. Zhao: Mmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: AllZhao: Did you feel special, or like V.I.P., when you were at (chuckles) the U.S.? Chen: No, I don't feel that at all. (Zhao: Okay) I feel very embarrassed because, (Zhao: Ohh) you know, when you have business, when you're in business, you don't have kind of ah, so much behavior problem that much. People say hi, you know, eat, drink, that's it. And then, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) in this, with the politicians, oh, you have to talk, chat, talk, uh…with them. Zhao: There's a way to talk. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: And then, and then ah table, dining manners, a lot of things, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: I'm really cannot fit into this kind of circle. That's why I decided, oh, this is, this is different world. It's not, I can never get-get into the world. Zhao: Okay. �22 Chen: And then I try and persuade my brother into letting me go, to picking up my old business, which is trading. Ah, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Yeah so, can you tell me a bit more about this business you started? Chen: When I was in China, even was working for the American boss, I, I go to some trade shows in China, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) searching for some suppliers, different things. (Zhao: Mmm, okay) And from there I, I became acquainted with many of the suppliers. And then we started, not just making our own factory, but also buy from the suppliers and send, ship them to America. So, my ah, American company, they are also im-importing things from them. So, I work as (Zhao: Mmm) a- as their agent in some way. So then when I came here, ah, when I decided to pick up this business again, I called all these big supplier, old suppliers' friends, see if they can support me. And some of them said, yes, sure, definitely. You can, if we can work over there, we will sell you, to you, and you sell in America yourself. I said, okay. That's how I started with the business. Zhao: Ohh, okay. Chen: And, uh. Uh. Zhao: What year was that? Chen: Yeah, that was in nineteen, uh, nine- in 2000. Zhao: 2000? Chen: 2000, two years after I came to the country. So, I started with the candle line, because (Zhao: Mm-hmm) I had a contact with a candle manufacturer in Shanghai. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So then he was my only supplier of merchandise, uh, when I started the business. (Zhao: Mmhmm) So I tried the candle. Yeah. Zhao: Okay. And how do things go from the candle? Chen: Yes. Zhao: So, at this point, you have a business, you have a girlfriend, and you're living on your own. Chen: Not exactly, it's tough. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Life is tough. You know, you don't have customers at the very beginning. You have to do trade shows, after trade shows. (Zhao: Mm) And me alone, single, fine. (Zhao: Mmm)Yeah. And then a couple years later, when I come, uh, with, uh, get married, my wife. Then fa-family. It's tough to travel. And then, but to support the family at the same time so the business was tiny. (Zhao: Okay) And because it takes years to build up the customer base. �23 Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: So how much, can you estimate, like how much were you grossing every year? Chen: Yeah. We, uh, let's say first year, maybe one hundred thousand dollars. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: And then second year, three hundred, two hundred. The first few years I came into, let's say 300k a year, which is basicallyZhao: -That doesn't cover your expenses. Chen: Yeah, 300k, you can live from hand to mouth. Yeah, many months, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) phone company connected the phone could disconnect the phone because you cannot afford paying the phone bill. Zhao: Mmm. Chen: Yeah. They can let you pass one month, but second month, if you don't pay then they will disconnect (Zhao: right) your phone. Yeah, but that's the life. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Yeah, it's tough. You have to work hard, yeah. Hard work hard to do trade shows after trade shows, try to build up to get some more customers and selling more merchandise. (Zhao: Yeah) Yeah, it's ah…it's so tough, but then we made it, you know? Three years of hard work, I have family, I have my my first daughter, Lori, and then my son, second, my second kid, son Daniel (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and then business getting better and better. And then, I became a Christian. Uh, ten years after I came to the country, yeah. Zhao: Okay, yeah. Chen: Mm. Zhao: Um, wow, that's, that’s a lot. Um, when you went to these trade shows, they were- where were they? And ehChen: Ah- those years, I mean 1990s, or the first uh, beginning of the twenty, of the 2000, ah, there are trade shows everywhere. The business (Zhao: Mm-hmm) was completely different because there were no Amazon, there are no online business. The Walmart, even Walmart, was not that many, only (Zhao: mmm) probably… Walmart just started from three hundred Walmart in the nationwide, and to one-thousand. So then, by the end of the century, ah, Walmart boomed business, (Zhao: yeah) so they are everywhere, and they killed many, many mama and papa gift shops. (Zhao: Mm) So I can say, forty percent, fifty percent of the gift shops closed (Zhao: Mm- �24 hmm) because the competition with Walmart. Walmart came into being and then, online business came to being, Ama- the uh, eBay. And uhZhao: Right. This the mid-2000s? Chen: Yeah, (Zhao: okay) 2000, beginning of 2000. And then the toy business, the game, became to be booming also, like Toys “R” Us closed, you know, because online competition. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So then, ah, they killed another twenty, thirty percent of the business. Then, finally, Amazon came into being. Amazon killed another twenty-thirty percent of it. So, uh, from nowadays, which is 2024-2023, compared with twenty-thirty years ago, eighty percent of the business were gone. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So survived only twenty percent. This twenty percent business survived. I mean the small business in retail business survived. Zhao: Mm. So, it sounds like, would you say that the industry you're in is like a dying industry if everyone's leaving? Chen: What do you mean? Zhao: Like, you're saying that after, you know, the-these large monopolies come in, twentythirty percent of all these mom and pop small businesses are closing. So, do you think that your industry, the wholesale industry, specifically with like um, import-export…is? Chen: Yeah, the wholesale business also shrink. They will follow the suite, the same. It happened the same with the wholesalers. But I'm a wholesaler. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So what happened, the same. Eighty percent of wholesalers gone. (Zhao: Ohhh) Deleted. Then only twenty percent people left. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So I, fortunately, ah, praise the Lord, became a survivor. Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. And to my knowledge, a lot of these companies now they buy directly from the manufacturer. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: They don't go through a middleman like you. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. I see. Yeah. Um. Yeah so, you are an American citizen, yes? Chen: Yes! (Zhao: Yeah) Yes I am. Yeah, been American citizen back in, ah, 2010. Zhao: Okay Chen: 2010, yeah. �25 Zhao: Yeah (Chen: Mm-hmm) and…how do you feel about the U.S.? Or how do you feel about being, let's say, like an American? Chen: Mmm I feel good! I feel great, yeah. The American is basically, this is a country of freedom, a country of ah, democracy. I mean, it's not just politically. I mean in (Zhao: Right) real life, we feel that. Me, as an educated person uh, from the communist country, (Zhao: mm, right) I feel this, uh, the big difference of living in this country compared with what life herethere in China. You know, in any other world, in other similar country, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Can you give an example of that? Chen: Yes. Let's say the uh, to take freedom for example. So, when we here, we don't really cherish the word freedom that much. Let’s say (Zhao: Mm-hmm) some of my workers they, they were born here, and you know none of them showed any appreciation of this at all. But, I talked to them is, when I talked to them I see, you see, you don't feel this. But, if you are in a different kind of uh, country, a different system, you don't have this kind of freedom at all. Zhao: What freedom are you talking… Chen: And you don't have your own right. So basically, your right is given…by the government, and you can do some thing and some thing you cannot do. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: So, as an individual or citizen in a society, part of your rights is removed. So that's the sad thing (Zhao: Yeah), you know. That's the big difference. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Right? Zhao: Right. So that's like freedom of speech? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: And, okay. Yeah. And since you mentioned your family, um, who are the members of your family and you can- can you tell me more about your family, what does it look like? Chen: Yeah, my mom and dad, they passed away. Uh, my father passed away when I was in high school, and my mom passed away when I came to- uh, like ten years after they came to this country. And so, we had a fam-happy family. Very traditional, mom, dad, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) you know. Mom cooked the food, three meals a day, and father left for work, joined the uh, communist community, work every day as a farmer. (Zhao: Mm) And then at the end of the year, we got our lot by the community, let's say ten dollars, twenty dollars a year as the pay, as �26 the income, we can buy something, and the uh, the food is basically free, because you got your shares. (Zhao: Yeah) Corn, rice, (Zhao: Ohh, yeah) everything is free, you got your shares, and that's enough for you to ah, support the entire family. (Zhao: okay) You don't have anything, you know, uh, beyond all these basic needs, luxuries, no. Yeah. Zhao: Mm- that sounds like the complete opposite of what it looked like for you to build a family in the U.S.? Chen: Uh-yeah. So that's a completely (Zhao: Yeah) different society. That was old, you know, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) even now China, after they open to the world, our world, since years, years in development, now it's the same, almost the same as America now. So, the life is the same. Yeah. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) People live under all sorts of pressures, yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Yeah, what about, uh, you mentioned that you have a wife and kids. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Can you tell me more about your family here? Chen: Yeah, here, we have another happy family. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: My-me, I have four kids, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) two daughters, two sons. And ah…there are problems here, because this is a country of freedom, so, uh, the way to teach them is different from China, but (Zhao: Mm-hmm) we have a traditional idea of how to teach the kids. We would like to, uh, Chinese way, you know. Zhao: Yeah. So, what wereChen: It's very demanding. You had to follow me, you had to follow parents' instruction, otherwise we beat you, okay, or whatever, but that doesn't work. We found (Zhao: uh-huh) this is, uh, it doesn't work that way, (chuckles) yeah. Zhao: Yeah. So then if, what would you- which Chinese traditions and customs have you brought to the U.S. with you? So maybe not the authoritarian government, like I will force you to do what, you know, I say, but what about, like, maybe some Confucian values, like respect for the elderly? Chen: Yeah, yeah. ThisZhao: What else is there? Chen: Yeah, the Confucian value, I found later, is basically the-almost in nature, same as Christianity, you know. Love, love within families, and love within the community. So that's what Confucius promoted 2,000 years ago in China, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) but during the communism, we got rid of love. Got rid of this word completely. We don't have this world in our �27 textbook, or in our life. People only live in family, inside one family, you know. You have affection, uh, feeling about each other, but that word is never spoken out, (Zhao: Mmm) under communist society. But now, eh, in China, it's the same. Because everything is open to the outside world. So that's the difference, the big difference. And uh, that's the culture, the old culture we learned from China, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and I think we should keep anywhere we go. Zhao: Mmm, okay. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Um, are there any, like, Chinese traditions that you pass on? Like any holidays that you continue to celebrate here? Chen: Yeah, we still have Chinese New Year, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) and we also have Moon festival, basically, uh, now from a year ago, probably- the Chinese New Year became a public holiday, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) so then we, especially this year, we enjoyed whole family unification, all (Zhao: Yeah) everybody here, under this dining table, celebrate Chinese New Year. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) It's just a simple meal, a chat, but this is the, this is the opportunity for family…to show their love each other, (Zhao: Yeah) to show their care about each other, you know? Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. I would say that it's probably one of, if not the most, like, important gathering (Chen: Yeah) or event in China. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Like…(Zhao unintelligibly trails off) yeah. Chen: Like Christmas or Thanksgiving in America. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: I see. Yeah. Um, what- this is a bit of a more personal question, but what are your dreams and visions for the future? Chen: Mmm. My dream? It’s simple. Back to, as a farmer again. (both laugh) Chen: That's my, (Zhao: Yeah) my kids call me Farmer Chen. Yeah. I brought up as a farmer. Yeah. But then my si- as I told my kids, my, at high school, the year before I graduate from high school, my high school principal had a meeting, made a, made a most influential speech in front of all of us. “So you, would you become father, become a farmer like your father, your �28 grandfather, your father’s father, or you want to change? You want to change and become someone, someone different, living in big cities, have-have a different dream, and have different, different type of life? Yeah. And then, I made that dream came true. Uh, all the way through hard work, and I come to…this country. But at, at this age, I don't really have any ambitious, ambition anymore. What I'm hoping is, my kids, hopefully they can reach their dream through the same kind of hard work I had. Zhao: I see. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Yeah. Yeah, um. Chen: But, it doesn't seem this will work. (Both laugh) Chen: (Laughs) Because they… (More laughter from both) Zhao: Ah-do you think... Chen: Yeah, they have more freedom to (Zhao: Yeah), they have freedom to follow their own way, follow their (Zhao: yeah) own dream. Yeah. Zhao: Right. Because the cos-sacrifice that you made has (Zhao giggles) resulted in (Chen: Mm-hmm, uh yeah) not needing so...to um, work in the same way that you did, when you were younger. Yeah… Um. NowChen: It's basically the personality. It's everybody, everybody created specially. You have your own...by God, your own specialty, special character. (Zhao: Mm-hmm) So, you pursue your own dream, one way or the other, you know. Zhao: Yeah. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Do you think that Christianity has also influenced a lot of how your like, values have changed? Chen: Yeah! Zhao: Okay. Chen: My later ages, I mean, ever since I became Christian, really changed my life, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. �29 Chen: Yeah. Changed the way I work, change the way I think, you Know, (Zhao: Mm-hmm) yeah. It is…it is. Zhao: Yeah. Are you an active member of the Christian community? Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Okay. So what does that look like, do you attend a, umChen: A church, yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Church every Sunday, but not that active anymore. At the- like, like the beginning, yeah. Zhao: Uh-huh. (Chen nods and makes sound in agreement) Zhao: Okay. Um, and since now that the interview is closing up a bit, um, is there anything else you would like to tell me before the interview finishes? Chen: Yeah, uh, okay. First of all, thank you for this chance (Zhao: Of course, ah, thank you for your time) for me to express myself, yeah. I would like, you know, my kids, yeah. Uh, when I talked to my son in Hawaii, yeah, I told him, uh, the person who gave me most important uhinstruction in my life is- you, as a high school kids, you should set up your own objective. Once you have the objective, you work towards this objective. Sooner or later, you will reach that target. (Zhao: Mm) So, this is how I told my son, and not to my daughter yet probably, there are some other kids. So, uh, I think life is tough, but you have to work hard, you know? Uh, it all depends on what you want to be, you know. Zhao: Mm-hmm. Chen: Yeah. Zhao: Well then, what would you say for someone that doesn't know what they want to be yet? Chen: Yeah, th-the same. If you don't want to be, want to be- you have no, uh, you don't set up your target, objective yet, then you have to think about it. Will you need one? Yeah. You have to, you have to have something to hold on, to hold on to, so you can have…encouragement, or you absorb encouragement from it to encourage yourself to work toward it. Zhao: Hmm, okay. Chen: Yeah. �30 Zhao: I see. Zhao: And also, always follow Christian values. Yeah. Zhao: Okay. Chen: Mmm. Zhao: Yeah, and…mm, um…I think that's about it. Uh, thank you for your time and participation. Yeah. Chen: Thank you. Zhao: Yeah, this has been very rewarding. Thank you. Chen: Yeah! Thank you, my daughter. (Both laugh) Zhao: Yeah, thank you. Okay. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lori Zhao Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jiwu (George) Chen Location The location of the interview Ellicott City, Howard County, MD, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Jiwu (George) Chen Description An account of the resource This interview between Lori Zhao and George (nickname) Chen, a Chinese immigrant and explores George’s experience as a Chinese immigrant in the U.S. George was born in Tianjin, China, and grew up under socialist China. Throughout his childhood, China’s economic and political policies began to change, which impacted George’s career opportunities and trajectories. George’s interview discusses differences between his experiences in the U.S. and China, his educational background during China’s transitional period, and the different career trajectories he has followed over the course of his life. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lori Zhao Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 24, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio business China education Freedom government journalism Socialism student https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/f006ac2d9990bc30f4586c671ba56eb4.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=vFxh6%7EzajkAUR06-PEMCnFW-O0YV4KmOC8YVw%7E9dzSCRPKkwNXZOgmSKIKORiqre3E6pLqRbPhzBj4xz2lrmFtRtw58xAthpIPJ4faehloHo6ru23AcfWDue76nOMq16Pyns1P1XxASpz7TQ%7EUqFkOYS%7E8Zl0r55c9akbqJKGzKzfPD9Eb%7EDy%7EgasQTpfpAMnSbCvjtrzW6L8JdMYBuO7LwYxzeL3-dxb1e8wrgHzzfBqKM8xqJ%7EOt4JdbPSRu8p302SWuGcqBFBrxLL0A3M66NEG4l3HVQHRGpCDNFTbCm%7EkStULPaTIyDGEpASgzBkHaMn98sEtrJ3FB4XGUmUjg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bala Govindaraju Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Vasanthi Kandsamy Location The location of the interview <span xml:lang="en-us" lang="en-us" class="TextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0">Clarksville</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0">, Montgomery Country, Maryland, United States</span></span><span class="EOP SCXW171178747 BCX0"> </span> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Vasanthi Kandsamy Description An account of the resource This interview between Bala Govindaraju and Vasanthi Kandsamy discusses Vasanthi’s experience growing up in India and migration to the United States. Vasanthi recounts her experience in the Indian educational system, family relationships, and labor migration. She also considers her racial-ethnic identification in India and the US. Vasanthi reflects on the difficulties communicating with family back home and family reunification. Throughout the discussion, Vasanthi shares how much had changed since her migration -- from the city side to increasing educated migrants moving to foreign countries for better opportunities. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR400 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Colleen Woods of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bala Govindaraju Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 7, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Dharmapuri education family India maryland visa work https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/2ddb508b99677e148f72481466097897.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=jHW3wEN%7EDVq34ixA--gHoJ2LLW7Hh4T15P0%7E4T8744oOpnQ-Y5mzUT5chA7vRd3UeWon43a1AZG1YFtVLRCQsQniUw2RmdtBy6p5o8Wof0Hd0VsL72bD86DM0fdzqz8QG5C8q1fg2faLALUtgdxjBokmdgiRjp6eJe2RE4IaoAeKW5dlFS5NDzoaAx0c8G3J2gj486Buz9BRh67n6mVmIxaEqkjlncBIjzdWqLaRTZKiwOeDrQsWFbF9xECqnOETlhqOGkPha-GrVxmx5hpRJkxtyicSwlVtqoQGdUApU5TM98b1Jm2be7BZpHJInttCJmVY6nWSx8Z10wAA95Tjpg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2023 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Avani R. Katre Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ratnakar Katre Location The location of the interview Clarksburg, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ratnakar Katre Description An account of the resource This interview between Avani Katre and her father, Ratnakar Katre, delves into his childhood, overcoming the struggles of poverty, and finding his way to America to build a life for him and his family. He explains the difficulties of attaining his education and of finding a job in his chosen career field as well as the unique challenges of chasing ambition from rural India. The interview also explores the experiences of an immigrant coming on a work visa and becoming a naturalized citizen, hinting at the exploitation by companies of these immigrants. Throughout the interview Ratnakar focuses on his work ethic, his ambition, and gratefulness even in the face of all his struggles in both India and the U.S. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2023). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Avani R. Katre Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 12, 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History education H1B India jobs Poverty https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/36c35e006f8425deb48c76bf2b4a937b.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=YT6F2pk6-%7EUkJ9wjPH9tfKK86aNWBjgm4DGe0szpftiA5MRQtREZCeGRIYJ4jRwD7VJxeTa6hPtMGes7WiBmyQuDBgN1dKrCf72zqOkg1HgdRD9pz%7Eu9OyLKZheKzLR0kBTcFLZwZ2kocgcbYpyO0yf8KlPkJlxY17Gl7-nBPgtUjbrrto2Do3g%7ES5l6lvqWw1KeEemR9JlQRny1zZHqJQUprC9mVL%7ElY6AcczvP45KFWNu1vd3qjR6X9XWbFiTHAWwDxO-72VOmV%7EPJWapSr-qy1zzUnViVkvYPWsHFaSt8cVF97kdF%7EqIIqGVnE3dmuPL5NGZqs0lbrjxBHWS1Bg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2021 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Nicholas Sanzone Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Clara (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview College Park, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Clara (Pseudonym) Description An account of the resource This interview between Nicholas Sanzone and Clara [pseudonym] explores Clara’s experiences as a Chinese resident in the United States on a Student Visa. She talks about her first sixteen years in China before taking two trips to the United States, in 2012. Both trips left a deep impression on her; especially about what Westerners think. She recollects the process of coming to the United States, what her Undergraduates school was like at Emory University and John’s Hopkins University, and the work or internship opportunities she took on after earning her degree. She explored a variety of fields in her time here from 2014-2020. Her main reason for coming to the United States was for education and a new world which she reflects upon. Later, she returned to China in 2020 and began teaching in her community. She and most of her family still reside in China today. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2021). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nicholas Sanzone Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2021 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History China COVID culture education jobs teacher https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/a64196fbcd6d3a6244c40b686b5d9114.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=i9QCmABr1cIBauccttTcuHIqPRmcrLugI0wIORxJbpgzcPfPioFTrQtw61OFN45RZmFq3wxvYLgZrW4yRzC%7EarvydKWwNMaZHsM1nY903tqe5RkIcWT13z9bvJnKeaaP0YUXLanuf1SWwUeUxFHGV52917McKjv7dsynpY-5Dt9Neeey905g6ja1idUhfNdv7TQVTY6R2sxCY1CizuvV6rUuLzM8sx0mKnY23nY8ZJMFKHLRdwxv7n5C1yDLWmzhadI3cn5rj%7E-gRh4ccGFlVvvAoXF0nid8UDDl%7Ee%7ETh3c3nNK%7Ea6QHcxhtxjxNzkDo2StHCGfy6LZ5r2rpp495OQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2021 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Devin O'Neill Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed J.D. (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview Bethesda, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of J.D. (Pseudonym) Description An account of the resource This interview conducted between Devin O’Neill and J.D. explores J.D.'s experiences as an immigrant coming to the United States from Colombia. J.D. grew up in Colombia and decided to come to America as a part of his overall journey. He recounts experiences of mistreatment, struggles he had to undergo to survive in a new place, other trials and tribulations. J.D. presents his life in a more upbeat tone as he recounts his past experiences. He talks about his family in Colombia, education, trade work, his new life in America and much more. J.D. expresses how lucky he is to have done so well for himself and is proud of his journey. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2021). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Devin O'Neill Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2021 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Columbia COVID education family https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/2f4969be65d392f37f5f097742f80e80.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=R1%7E5%7EmoCvAPi%7Eq39My50I4RVWAzorYen7H1ha%7EIIkjLLeT9RZmAh8DUmltPJ4M5PsnRsgc9rzJrorWfS9yvLPJQQlVqMCapRtBIHGHyAGNkLsH%7EtmL-5Ca1xa1Nui%7EjThEf6dSspF8r6taGeCwt1Q-LeGgGeCdkHsLEyxkP9pgrpKd3MibKWcFW4b1Ia5gRa8MMkqGi2rVQIY2BqHSLbCBN2M7EUUlMH-H4HeVa1qBo7-1U1wwm1PXUYKupciBwkMnmN1ztCa7TwTSClaKtG3t86ihJZUSuWSaxpOg8xKc7M9rT0rrmbJF950G5LNk6n2ZQOPVI7MT1vJNbEUlVSsg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2021 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Tyler Huang Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Fucheng Li Location The location of the interview Rockville, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Fucheng Li Description An account of the resource This interview with Fucheng Li goes over his life experiences as an immigrant to the United States from Guangdong, China. Fucheng immigrated to the U.S. in 2012 at the age of 12, after his father immigrated to the U.S. 25 years prior due to a work opportunity. A major part of Fucheng’s life has been schooling, so he discusses the differences in education between China and the U.S. In addition, his past life in China allows him to comment on cultural and societal norms/practices surrounding his community in China. His experiences as an immigrant may be applicable to and even assist other immigrant children adapting to life in the United States, especially those who do not have a comprehensive grasp on English. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2021). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Tyler Huang Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 27, 2021 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource pdf, mkv Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Children China communism community education Opportunity https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4d5224caf94bbfb2b080af0c081c8f91.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=jSHbfqKDQeoKCYaXb2hEj68uEgu%7EtcTAkvXFwtq2swWgrCfwFFeDhQx1YwUyvo2cwAfX%7E7x-zl6Jgww%7E-tTv5Qvietk9x6uqlbFPbW0q3MXf4ulbn4R9l4nok1VdSAhGZKKzptwBUUO6lns4xYyT9OfIKNk6niMZIYi5dheNNge1UXbbwBo0UupKhtuiTEb8WIrqNEdY8qtyELxHqDS8XjT5UaSPQ3Xs5-xI0BatBPhQy94C8usmRoDqyvdj53f3URBlPbl%7E9TPjhPDNL8NEJ4T-JU4EOaM2XV6Y8dxrJ3VYGuF2aVpmGFdt5GmYrfT%7ER44bVBQhNy8LHJew8IwhEA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/a5c7c8d4938757c8d076753ee7e2b4df.m4a?Expires=1779926400&Signature=CCY%7EbioGkyyZcNrwDKuoUwyN8wJCgMnnnR6t2xhhvpfBO8ah6iWoI9LY0LLoCKXcdmfrqNHEX20uuxVMkjS3ZWda0chFCjIYnhqBpUiNTQbA9Wc2vRtu634jn8i-DMe%7EQajesd3n3IvM-n1y9q4cLv2H93HaiivudnTgd2q0ZAjuFNr71luo0xQH1lyjvnDDWPCa7lOYRTFxuN2OeFRpdfWgGTjYHwb0I4P-WixH0tjgk1ATjNzufHYHqxhSTb%7E9B%7EWapsE8YU2VGK-BET4-%7E1ClrR6KQYlLfI4pSndYGChkqLac9IRNO1XI9Sy1tIvHrMq%7ElCftMgcZ2SOg7XYl5Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 65d52c64f4bbbbf1ed6a697b2b75e4aa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b1b46ebb87f45047ac7131c101a2658a.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=vOmYAZYSesvavjDkkEC4NCO5uI2MjiNwXxG0DmTGUkNK2L5tAqXtMwXp6CO18YiHg46BlC-0etuOLevq3w3LYVLNdOuB8plgELaFl4U0gTPKr2E6KcKrgXRuzzz9gxUmG0tXpa6iqnmwSWmEEqyzNR0yZzNFs1dtPchO0hwvXbq9-vMpXnCAl-uVAfN27P9vXKGRqVw07k%7ELguc0Kzu6Ti7RI1v9dT4tPAtevtGc3SeSUZeuYDBEYQuQZNXNVDU8in1GM3uxePPYfDiReBwWgtmykrqF9WUJBiVs4FXZrcQB9Q8MjkcLgFT1omTfRSpnjy9j35D0tJOMdWP%7Ecxqykw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM bc98df75c2b366ca421f4107c1854513 PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland IMMR 400 – Spring 2022 Instructor: Dr. Robert Chiles Interviewer’s Name: Diego Plazas Interviewee’s Name: Bertha Jeannette Gasca Interviewee’s Country of Origin: Columbia Interviewee’s Current Residence: Maryland Date of Interview: March 11, 2022 Place of Interview: Maryland Introduction: This interview between Diego Plazas and Jeannette Gasca discusses Jeannette’s experience immigration from Columbia to the US in the 90s amidst a civil war. Jeannette talks about her career path and how she had to change careers due to the language barrier in the US. Jeannette also talks about life in Columbia when she was a child and what Columbia is like for her family still there now. Jeannette emphasizes the importance of education for everyone. Note: This interview was conducted in English and Spanish, but it has been transcribed in English. Key Words: Columbia, education, civil war, school, education, Children, Language Barrier Diego: Hello, this is Diego Plazas and I’ll be conducting an interview. The questions will be asked in English and the interviewee will be able to respond in Spanish if desired as this is their native language. What is your name? Jeannette: My name is Bertha Jeannette Gasca. I go by my middle name Jeannette. Diego: Alright Jeannette, what year were you born? Jeannette: I was born in Colombia, in 1954. Diego: Alright, and how many brothers and sisters do you have, if any siblings? Jeannette: Okay, my parents had 10 children. I am the number four. In 70’s my first brother came here to the United States in 1972. And then my mom got her papers through him and then she applied for us to get the green card [for] seven of us. Two went to England and one stayed in Colombia. Diego: Alright and did you pursue any higher education? Did you go to college, and if so, was that in Colombia or the US? Jeannette: When I was in Colombia, I finished my high school in 1974. When I started in the National University of Colombia, I was awarded with the title of Nutritionist in 1982. �Diego: Okay and is that the current occupation you hold to this day? [The remainder of this interview was conducted in Spanish and is translated from Spanish] Jeannette: I worked, okay I will continue in Spanish, for 5 years I worked with a government agency “The Colombian Institute for Family Wellbeing” I worked for 5 years. Then when I stopped working there, in about two years I got married and we decided to move to the United States. As my mother used to say, she filled out an application for 7 of us [her children] and we came in 1990. We then had our first child, Alejandra, who is now 30 years old, and in 94 we had our second child Diego Alejandro that is now 27 years old. Well [being] here, regarding the language, well it became very difficult, to the both of us, to me and my husband. We had to start [life here] with jobs that were very hands on, very, well as we say, from the bottom. We had to start from the bottom, which made me very depressed at the time because I was used to being at a professional level in Colombia. I came [to this country] to work hard in whatever I could manage and get hold of, and well, then I began working at daycares and I began studying early education. I did not finish my career because, well, it became very hard due to [having] the kids and I stopped. Two years ago, I worked as a teacher in a daycare. I spent 22 years working as a teacher of a daycare. I had to stop due to the pandemic of COVID-19 and then, due to the tough circumstances of life, I had to stop because I got sick and was diagnosed with cancer and thank God the surgery turned out good. I received chemotherapy and during this time I didn’t work and was able to get me healthy. Then I decided to take care of children at their household to not stress myself out so much. Working at a daycare I realized stressed me out a lot. Diego: Okay, I understand that there were many obstacles you faced once you were in this country. What was your goal and objective for coming to this country? Jeannette: Well the truth is that I did not want to come to this country. It was the last thing that I really thought of doing. The person that really convinced me in doing so was my husband. To not have the papers go to waste, which are very hard to acquire by the way, I already had the residency. Well, I wanted to make the most out of it and test my luck. We came and well, yes lots of obstacles like I mentioned before. First and foremost, the English language, the culture. But working very hard we were able to find our footing. My husband works for the World Bank and thanks to the hard work that we both committed to, we reached a socioeconomic status that allowed us to live a comfortable life. This was achieved with lots of hard work, lots of hard work and little by little with the classes that we took in Montgomery College, we learned some English, which is very important to be able to get ahead here. I did not continue my career in nutrition in this country, because as I mentioned, the language was a very big obstacle. Then, well, I had kids and since raising them is not cheap I had my �mother along my side helping raise them. We also had to provide for my mother while she was here and I had to work in whatever it was at the time. Due to this, I decided to study early childhood education. Diego: You mentioned your husband. What career path did he take, and does he still take part in it to this day being in this country of the United States? Jeannette: Okay. In Colombia he studied Journalism. At one point he worked for a national newspaper and then when we came to this country, due to the language barrier, he couldn’t continue in his profession. But with lots of luck, he was contracted with a job for the World Bank and to this day he works as an IT in the World Bank. It is true that what helped him achieve where he has gotten so far is because he is very engaged [in his work], and like I said, learning English. That is what is most important to being successful in this country. Diego: Okay. Focusing more on your family. What occupation did your mother have in Colombia? Jeannette: My mother? Diego: Yes. Jeannette: Oh, my mother was always a housewife. She never worked, well in that time. My mother got married when she was 22 years old in 1949 and well, in that time they just barley got through high school. My mom went as far as finishing her fourth year in high school, my dad was an accountant and well we didn’t live the most comfortable lifestyle but thankfully we had enough to live good. Diego: You mentioned that she only attained an education up to high school. Have you noticed a difference in the education experienced in Colombia nowadays? Would you say that it is different when you compare it to how it was before? Jeannette: Well of course today there is more opportunity. The [Colombian] government facilitates and provides more assistance and funding for education. It also depends on where you’re located. My mother was raised in a small town, and at that time, there wasn’t an educational level so high. The possibilities were much smaller from the ones today. At the time people weren’t so caught up in trying to get an education because it was much easier to find a job. There was much less competition. Nowadays, there is lots of competition and if you don’t get a degree you can’t work in many things. Just look at things here. You now need an early childhood certificate, and in Colombia it is very similar. If you don’t have a title [degree] it is very difficult to land a job. Diego: I see. During the time that you were a kid, would you say that there were any major events that influenced your decision to come to this country? Or any that influenced your career path decision? In other words, what events occurred during that time that were very memorable to you? �Jeannette: That caused me to come here? Or that made me decide what career path to take? Diego: Regarding your childhood experience. The major events that occurred at the time that shaped your childhood that you still remember to this day? Are there any events during your childhood that you still remember to this day that happened in Colombia? Jeannette: Are you referring to any events that may have caused me to immigrate to this country? Diego: If you want to focus on that aspect of immigrating to this country. Or what major events occurred in your days such as the FARC. Jeannette: Well if you’re talking about situations that made me feel obligated in coming here. Yes, as I mentioned before, there were drug trafficking problems, insecurity, the war that affected the farmers way of life, and well all those people would come to the city and that would create more insecurity. Since the major cities are what attracts everyone, it makes it much harder to find a job. Therefore, the most memorable events are those. These events lead people to migrate from their country over to the United States. For the reason of insecurity and unemployment. The lack of trust that people have in the government. They take the money from the people and the towns which is why the towns don’t get the help they need to be able to develop. Diego: In those times, to mitigate the risks of insecurities of the drug trafficking, did you notice that the government of Colombia intervened at any point? Such as requiring that young people enlist in the military, or did you notice that the government tried to put a stop to these activities? Jeannette: Well what happens is that the young men always have to enlist in the military. They are required to fight in the areas where the war is at which takes place in very small towns, very desolate such as the mountains. In the late 80’s the government began taking a stand against the drug trafficking because before then, there were even some [drug traffickers] that would take part in office as senators. Once the government realized the severity of this problem, they began to attack [the drug traffickers]. In return the drug traffickers would place bombs everywhere and the insecurity only got worse. They then noticed that the best course of action was taking it [the drugs] to Mexico. They noticed it was the easiest as they noticed the United States was the number one buyer of cocaine and marijuana. This in turn lowered the drug trafficking presence in Colombia. Diego: Alright. If I remember correctly, you mentioned that they required young men to take part in the military. Did it so happen that any of your brothers were enlisted in the military at the time? Jeannette: The truth is that at the time, if we paid off, or gave money, there was a chance that one’s children would not have to enlist in the military. None of my brothers were required to enlist in the military because it was all paid off. From what I remember lots of my other family �and many that I remember were excused from having to serve in the military due to this. There was also a draft system that gave men numbers and if the number were for example, even, then they would not have to take part in the military. This also helped my relatives escape military enlistment duties. From what I remember, none of my brothers had to enlist in the military. Diego: I remember you mentioned that you came to this country because you already had the required documentation to eventually become a citizen. Would you say you felt obligated to come to this country since you really didn’t want to? Or do you think if you had the final say, would you have stayed in Colombia? Jeannette: Well the truth is not that I was obligated to come, but rather that you realize the problems of Colombia and that in reality how difficult it is to obtain a citizenship. In reality I did not want to, and my husband was the one that pushed me and convinced me in coming to this country. At the end of the day if we decided on going back [to Colombia], we could and there was no problem. Due to this I did not let this opportunity go to waste of coming to the United States. And here we are to this day, 32 years, with two kids and a granddaughter. Diego: I remember you mentioned you have two sisters that decided to move to England. Did it never occur to them to come to this country, and for what reasons did they chose another country over this one? Jeannette: Well the truth is that it’s not that they didn’t have the opportunity to come to this country, even though my oldest brother was already here. They decided to go to England because the oldest of the two had a friend there, and this was the reason why they ended up going there instead. The sister of her friend helped them find a job and all. My sister Marlene, which is the fifth oldest out of the ten, ended up arriving there and then once she settled down my other sister Claudia ended up going, number 10 out of all my siblings. Due to this, the two of them ended up settling in England. Diego: Focusing on you immigrating to this country. Prior to you moving to this country for good, did you ever visit beforehand? Jeannette: No, well the thing is that it never occurred to me before on coming to this country. When I had to come to get my documents certified I had the chance to get to get to know it. It was March 20 something in 1990 when I came to get my documents certified. I was planning on getting married in May but we had to postpone everything because me and my husband were still dating at the time when I came to get the documents certified. Then I stayed 3 months when I got my residency approved and then shortly after I got married [in Colombia]. We then came back [to the United States]. But I never arrived as a tourist [status] here. �Diego: When you arrived to this country, during your first week was there anything that stood out that you had never seen in Colombia? Jeannette: Oh well of course, the metro, and the organization. I am not sure if that is what you are asking me. Yes well, the metro. In Colombia the only city that has a metro is Medellin, which is one of the cities that I dream of going to visit. But I had never seen one in person and being here it was very amazing to me. The organization of this country also struck me. Everything in this country is huge, American-sized. This is probably what stood out to me the most. What most got me depressed was when I tired finding a job as a nutritionist. It was very inconvenient. Of course, when I applied for this job posting, at the time job postings popped up on the newspaper, and I spotted one for a position at Adventist Hospital. It was for a nutritionist position based on meal nutrition services. Since I already had 3 brothers here, one of them always helped translate for me and like I mentioned my English at the time was not the best. I ended up going to the interview and when they posed a question about any communication barriers or difficulties, that’s when I fell into the depression. It hit me very hard. I had my hopes up and shortly after I ended up getting pregnant and had my first daughter. One year had passed after moving here and seeing that my daughter was a bit older, I decided to take some English classes at Montgomery College. Diego: If I understand correctly, you arrived on a plane? Jeannette: Yes, we arrived under all the guidelines of the law. With the proper documentation, I was already arriving with my residency because like I said I was here three months to certify my residence, I went back to Colombia and got married, and well my husband did come here with a tourist visa. But then he ended up filing for the residency and after two years was able to get it. In that regard, we did not have any problems. The problem ended up being acclimating ourselves to this country. Especially when you aren’t as fluent in the English language. Diego: I remember that you mentioned you still have a brother that stayed in Colombia. Is there a reason why he didn’t end up coming to this country and what do you think would have happened differently if he ended up coming to this country? Or what has he done having stayed in Colombia this whole time? Jeannette: The truth is that he was never interested in coming to this country. My mother was never able to file the proper documentation for him because he was already married. One of the conditions of obtaining [United States] citizenship was that you could not have already gotten married. Due to him already being married, he lost the opportunity to come to this country. Since he’s a systems engineer, he has been able to make ends meet and holds a stable job. At the end of the day, he does not worry about never having been able to come to this country. �Maybe a reason he might have been bothered about not being able to come to this country is because of his kids. Since they ended up becoming doctors, they would have liked doing their residency here but due to the high cost of living and challenges of obtaining the proper documentation, they never did. This I think is the only thing that worries him. Everything else, no. He is doing very well in Colombia. Diego: After having spent all this time here, is there anything that you miss from Colombia? Such as friends? Jeannette: Oh yes definitely. I miss the social life and the food. Regardless I still keep up with my friends but it’s not the same. Everyone already has their family and everyone has settled down. I have my best friend Merchi that I was able to cherish lots of memories with. Then I got married and came to this country but we still keep up. My cousins, yeah, you end up missing your family a lot but everyone has their own life figured out. Diego: I imagine that you still have lots of family out Colombia. Have you gone back to Colombia to visit throughout all these years? Jeannette: Oh yes. Well first of all, I don’t have much family out here in the United States. From my siblings out of the seven of us that came here, two have already gone back to Colombia. I now have three brothers in Colombia. Some cousins here and there but uncles I don’t have any. No, the majority of my family are in Colombia. Thankfully they’re all doing good in Colombia. Even with all of the insecurity and the employment difficulties everything has gone real good for them. Yes I really miss Colombia, and I have gone about four times in these 32 years. I went to Colombia to visit them, to take note of the changes. Every time it has always changed. It changes, changes, changes. I always have a good time when I go out there. I’ve also been to lots of other places such as Spain, Canada, England, and yeah one way or another nothing replaces my Colombia. I think I’m going to end up staying in the United States though to be able to stay in contact with my kids. Diego: Have you noticed any major changes in Colombia from the times that you went back recently to what you remember from your childhood? You mentioned that there were lots of changes. Jeannette: The last time that I went to Colombia was in the year 2015. Since then I have not gone back. Oh yes the changes are drastic. Nowadays there is lots of immigration to Colombia from Venezuela. Due to the situation in Venezuela, lots of people have immigrated to Colombia and the insecurity has increased due to this. There has been lots of changes. The difference in eras from the years I lived out there, such as the music. You would dance to music such as cumbia, merengue, chucu chucu. It was very nice. There were lots of dance clubs where you would have a great time. �With the passing of time the music changes. That type of music isn’t really listened to anymore. A denser population makes it so that everything is harder. I really liked Colombia when I lived there. It has changed for the better somewhat, but the insecurity has also developed as well. Diego: Have you ever thought about how different your life would have been had you stayed in Colombia? In terms of reflecting on your colleagues from school that went into the same major. Have you noticed certain things that they ended up doing from staying out in Colombia that you might have been able to achieve had you stayed out there? Jeannette: Well from my graduating class from Colombia, that I know of, three ended up here, and one in Spain. The rest of them stayed in Colombia. Some of them didn’t have much luck landing a stable job because they keep getting temp jobs as contractors. But it seems that all of them are well off and situated. I had a job offer to work at the military hospital but I had already started making my way here, and I most likely would have ended up working there. It’s hard to say really. Diego: Out of the benefits of this country, which one would you say has helped you the most? In terms of security, finances, health insurance. Jeannette: Well, it goes without saying that this country brings you lots of benefits. That’s one of the reasons why I ended up staying, lets put it that way, I think that if I don’t head to Colombia then I’ll just end up staying here. Of course, the help offered here has really been shown with raising my kids. The free education offered here, the schooling system, it’s all free, a very good education. I had financial help from the start. I was provided with Medicaid which helped me have my first kid. Yes, there are plenty of benefits I can’t deny, lots of help, lots of help all around. Diego: I noticed that the first thing you mentioned was that the education here was free. Would you say that in Colombia the education system is different? Do you have to pay? Jeannette: In Colombia there is also free schooling. I studied in a school funded by the government. I believe I didn’t have to pay for my schooling. It wasn’t bad, I mean obviously if you go to a private school, it’s a bit more organized, the discipline. It’s more controlled. Regardless, I was still able to learn. The education in Colombia is very good, it is recognized at a world level. The college education offered there is very good. The education system you can say is very good. Lots of students finish their careers, but the problem is that most of the time they do not find a job. There is lots of possibilities to get an education in Colombia, whether that is through financial aid given by the government, or by attending a federally funded university such as the one that I went to. It’s not expensive but the admissions process makes it somewhat hard to get into. There are lots more federally funded universities, but the National University is one of the more recognized universities at a world scale. �Diego: To wrap things up, one last question that I would like to make is if you could travel back in time, what piece of advice would you tell your former self before having come to this country? What would it be? Being able to go back in time with all the experience you have gathered throughout the years in this country what piece of advice would you have given yourself prior to coming here? Jeannette: Well, is it advice to have stayed in Colombia and not have ended up coming here? Diego: Whatever piece of advice you deem necessary, whether that be having stayed in Colombia or ending up here, learning something, bringing something, leaving something. Jeannette: Okay, the piece of advice that I can give everyone in the world is for them to get an education. Getting an education is the best treasure that a person can have in this world and no one else can take it from you. Getting an education in whatever it may be, it does not need to be a PhD or anything sophisticated. Whatever it may be it helps someone defend themselves in the real world with the knowledge they attain. Even if it means that you don’t end up working in your own field that degree is going to help one remain educated in many different aspects such as a cultural standpoint. An education is the skeleton key that opens many doors. Diego: Okay. Much thanks. Jeannette: Thank you. Diego: With this we will conclude this interview. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2022 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data doc, m4a Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Diego Plazas Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jeannette Gasca Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Jeannette Gasca Description An account of the resource This interview between Diego Plazas and Jeannette Gasca discusses Jeannette’s experience immigration from Columbia to the US in the 90s amidst a civil war. Jeannette talks about her career path and how she had to change careers due to the language barrier in the US. Jeannette also talks about life in Columbia when she was a child and what Columbia is like for her family still there now. Jeannette emphasizes the importance of education for everyone. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2022). This course was led by Professor Robert Chiles of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Diego Plazas Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 11, 2022 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, m4a Language A language of the resource English, Spanish Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Children civil war Columbia education Language Barrier school