1 10 6 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b75157859347211a88b4e00f48317f69.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=Nhm7YUjkuLpGfgMAN2wVz5UP1MNjBm4RBQcGuDpiMRPPcnrUQdf0PHnug3g8hC2d5X5o3aywEGNR-l920a53fdBp2%7Er4Qf0PbKVlTmaqcU9Hz5C9sJ%7E-E5inyv-mU6bWYWQLSQMnEiQDy%7E70L6wPaJIUF4Nh8lepPVJs0JshJhqKNCnLrjh2Vus2yT0Vd3X1zHjnZ4wC%7E2%7ElewheZKataDaJF1ZWAh-b%7E9l7MLiUsuYBJJ6F2%7EuQ5YPkrhy14-4mFkYjtC%7E2yFXB9Kl87MI6vqQki8OGb4Ssc1-LlvSd%7Ekqg%7EfqMM-aBbkN0IeNT9Jx94%7EDaJ-fukoA0HgSO7zKjrg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM a14e5a1892a0433accaca5adb9450281 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/f5c46392158f1786b9cf07adc785369b.m4a?Expires=1779926400&Signature=HjaA1rd4FzXJcqL80F7l7aB%7EnNYt7L%7EWYxFSeXomuatkIWSKkGa61gaMq2hf%7EjY6jBPJc8thBiQqDjUhIL3w-Pp6iFmNnbToVLVk-zk4nFUw0dn4sfqBlsbloDTHL4nagY7eIA1Uzrq8KWS00OiwMlc-gOuFqwbXM8Q4Vg8TiO9g1Hy9rPHmPPDnklG9gXKspt42f86x7y8NppJ9kPgnhkbywBN6kWNlLDFkgo7Z1Y3%7EZ-bKZbUmq2k7mjPik3BQf-4equSyN3-vXKA2QqrchMndxRGzXp3B6TBe0GuRaL5SZjPZN7wO0MDxMvYzo1EhGjEnU63mwRxdIlYvx0p60g__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7b3e2f5c8b415fd4c2e7b75533a8eadf https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/3b09602dfb88354faf6296cf3c836db4.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=P1SE5U6Uh-rO4mDiwJndWuxjWAyCEljwHiE42zJXluv0m0clZdtdjDgTI5xCkirq0P7EUOOPXU%7E824efonc2it2kxvcHqyx01Rb1wqpoBhmR5mWzKkqjfK-XVjCrfOpz3KBy8RtnLiJt-LHVevg9pAm5ibACGBDwsDe0umJCmPi-8erTaEl1VykXuEUzJbFQGviEfsZzU6WTyQcXG%7E5ZPTVCxdrl8K%7ELG7ONxKjgPjsfNV%7E5FGZfGKY6sPjNTtfFrCK%7E2atJNZciisuhWRoUuW75k6vKJiEdMSZHwK%7EdWPamxYTd1NAIx6mU-DOXkiZMUlaVuHBO9XJjCLaX6Yv0uQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 0d550c1b8aa2b70fceceb2b0af80a7e0 PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland HIST428M- Spring 2021 Instructor: Dr. Anne S. Rush Interviewer’s Name: Duany S. Philip Interviewee’s Name: Betty Junianti Simarmata Interviewee’s Country of Origin: Indonesia Interviewee’s current residence: Perry Hall, Baltimore County, Maryland, United States Date of Interview: March 9, 2021 Place of Interview: In Person, Perry Hall, Baltimore County, Maryland, United States [via Voice Memo] Introduction: This interview between Duany Philip and Betty Simarmata goes into the experiences of Betty, an Indonesian immigrant that has lived in the United States ever since 2004. Although Betty had to overcome challenges when coming to the United States, her experiences in Indonesia gave her the strength to move despite the major differences in culture, people, and lifestyle. Her upbringing in plantation farms, living in the city of Medan, Bandung, and even Jakarta have shaped her identity as a proud Indonesian to this day. Her story emphasizes how culture is important to an immigrant’s life because it gives a sense of identity of who you are and where you come from. Keywords: Indonesia, North Sumatra, Christian, culture, adapt, friends, family, Baltimore Duany: Hi everybody, my name is Duany Philip, and I am interviewing Betty Junianti Simarmata. And today's date is March 9th, 2021. And the location of this interview is Perry Hall, Maryland, in the suburbs in our townhome. So, Betty, how are you today? Betty: I'm good. Thank you. Duany: Great. So, can you tell me where you were born? Betty: I was born in Bah Jambi. It's a very small town in North Sumatra. Duany: Can you explain a little bit more? Where exactly Bah Jambi is? Betty: Bah Jambi, so north Sumatra, the capital city of North Sumatra is Medan. And Bah Jambi, I think it's like three or four hours from Medan. It's a small town belong to one company called BTPN 4. It’s a plantation, uh what is— Duany: Plantation area? Betty: Yeah. Duany: Palm oil plantation. Betty: Palm oil plantation, yeah, palm plantation. �Duany: So, I can assume that you grew up in a palm oil plantation area, correct? Betty: Yes. Duany: Can you tell me a little bit how your early childhood was in a palm oil plantation area? Betty: Yes. So, uh, plantation area so they have their own uh, perumahan, what is it? Duany: Housing. Betty: Estate, yeah, housing, their own housing, so, we live there and they have their own school. So, everything pretty much in there, school, housing, so we make friends with uh with neighbors that have their parents, the same job with my parents, something like that. And it's very, very nice childhood because the housing is pretty nice. They have pretty big yard and we can play in there. It's nice. It's very different with uh city living. Duany: So just to clarify, the friends that you met in Bah Jambi, this palm oil plantation area, your friends who are mostly people whose parents also worked in the same company as your parents? Betty: Yes. And also, uh actually, I was born in Bah Jambi, but I grew up in Mayang. So, because in that uh company, the staff is moving around, so from this uh place move to another place. So, uh after I was born in Bah Jambi, my parents moved to Doloksinumbah and then moved again to Mayang. So, but, the place that I mostly remember was Mayang. Duany: Interesting. Betty: Yup. Duany: So, you—how did that work? You moved to Mayang, back to Bah Jambi, or, was—how was the routine like? Betty: Uh. Actually, with the place is pretty much the same. So, the—and the environment is pretty much the same also. So, just, yeah, just the place different but the environment and the feeling it's pretty much the same, yeah. But we have new friends of course. Duany: Hmm. Betty: Every time my family moved, yeah, we have to make new friends, something like that. Duany: How did it feel for you when you had to constantly make new friends and never have um friends that were long term? �Betty: Yeah, for the first time always feeling sad because I have to leave everything that I loved: uh the—the house, the environment and my friend. But, after a while I have new friends and yeah, I feel happy again. Duany: That’s great. Betty: Yep. Duany: So what age did you—were—so, you said you're around Bah Jambi and Mayang, but I know that in your life you move to another city after that. Betty: Yeah, because when I was in middle school, my dad moved to another island called pop—I mean Borneo. That's uh pretty far away from Medan because Borneo is another island. And because of that, my—my dad uh told us to just stay in Medan, so only him and my mom moved to Borneo, but me and my siblings live in Medan and we went to school in Medan. [Editor’s note: Their mother lived in Medan with them, only their father stayed in other islands.] Duany: So, how’s your family like growing up? Especially with your father in a far location? Betty: Yeah, of course, that's not the ideal situation. But my uh dad thinks that's the best for us because in Borneo, at the time, Borneo, not really very developed yet. So, for school, he thinks Medan is better than Borneo. That's why, even though that's not the ideal situation, but he thinks for our education uh so much better if we just live—stay in Medan. Duany: I see. Interesting. So just for clarification, you moved to Medan at what age? Betty: I think uh either 12 or 13, something like that. Duany: 12 or 13. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: So, keep in mind, my interviewee was born in 1971, 12 to 13. She spent around 12 to 13 years in Borneo and Mayang, and around 1983-ish, early 1980s, she was in Medan. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: So, in Medan 12 and 13 years old, you obviously also had to make new friends as well. Betty: Yeah. Duany: Can you tell me a little bit of your experiences from a plantation area to a big city? Betty: Yeah, uh for this time, move to Medan is very big changes for me because Medan, it's not uh like uh small town plantation. It's very different, Medan is capital city. And yeah, everything so different. So, the environment, the situation, the school because uh school in plantation, you �know, it's in the small town. So, the school the quality is like, yeah, not really good. But in Medan, I went to, I think, at a time in the best school in Medan [laughs], so it's like very challenging for me to—to understand the subject because, you know, I like—hmm yeah, it's very advanced. The—the material is very diff—advanced compared to what I learned in small town. So, it's difficult for me to adapt for the uh for study at school. And—and friend because now uh my friend came from a different background. It's not like in—in plantation, in plantation, we have the same background, our parents works in the same company. We grew up in small town. So, it's like, we have the same background. But now in Medan, my friends came from every situation, their family is different than mine. Yeah, so that's very challenging for me, actually. And I don't like it. Duany: [Laughs.] Betty: For the first time, I think not just for the—it takes—it took like, a few years, maybe until I really like uh can uh really— Duany: Adapt. Betty: Yeah, adapt with that situation. Duany: So, knowing that you have how many siblings total at the time? Betty: Six. So, with me, we are seven siblings. Duany: Seven. Betty: Including me. Duany: Oh, so six siblings of yours. Betty: Six siblings, yeah. Duany: So due to this, at first when you arrive to Medan and how you said it was hard to adapt to the life— Betty: Mm-hm, yup. Duany: Did you—did this—did you spend more time with family and just people that you recognized? Or like people that were just similar to you? Basically, did you just spend more time with your family than trying to adapt to the new life in Medan when you first arrived? Betty: Yeah. Because I feel like more comfortable with my family than uh with my new friends, so I just spend more time with my family. �Duany: So, when you say that your relationship with your family improved after you moved to Medan compared to when you were in the palm oil plantation because you inevitably had to spend more time with them? Betty: Yeah, it could be. But I think I always have a good relationship, my siblings, even though I have a lot of friends, when back in uh plantation, but yeah, I—oh uh I always have a good relationship with my siblings. Duany: Interesting. So, you mentioned before how it took you multiple years to adapt to the new life in Medan. I can't imagine coming from a plantation life moving to the third most populated city in Indonesia. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: When did exactly did you start adapting to life in Medan and thinking, Okay, this is my life and I'm just going to make the best out of it? Betty: Uh I think uh maybe when I—after I was in high school, I'm more uh comfortable with the—with my life in Medan. I think that whenever I was in middle school. And also, maybe because, you know, at that age, I uh from childhood goes to teenager I think that that itself already makes something complicated. So, uh and adding with the moving to Medan, that's why it's hard for me to adapt. But after I was in high school, I—I already enjoy everything. So, I think that uh the things that made me more uh it's harder for me to adapt because I was in transition from childhood to teenager, I think something like that also. Duany: That makes perfect sense. Betty: Yeah. Duany: Wow, so back to the topic of family for a little bit. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: How did your siblings feel moving to Medan? Of course, you said before, you know, you had a strong relationship with them even before Medan. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: But how did they cope with Medan? Do you remember by any chance? Betty: Hmm I don't—I don't really remember. But as long as I remember, I don't think they have a hard time to adapt. Yeah. [Both laugh] Duany: Oh, you believe that you actually had the hardest experience moving to Medan? Betty: I think so but I never asked them but uh from what I saw, it's—it's not a problem for them. �Duany: [Laughs] That's cool. So, once you, you know, you finally matured a little bit you entered high school and you started to adapt. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: You have probably made like some new friends, right? Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: How were—and now you're not like traveling anywhere for like to Mayang or Bah Jambi. Betty: Mm-hm yeah. Duany: Now you have some established friends— Betty: Yeah. Duany: —like for once in your life, how did that feel for you? Betty: I was happy. Yeah. And also, I still uh make a good friend from my best friend from high school. That's how strong our relationship are. Duany: Wow. Betty: I’m still best friend with them until now. Duany: That's really cool. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Great. Okay, moving on to our next topic. So around what year did you graduate high school? Betty: ’90. Duany: 1990? Betty: 1990. Duany: I'm assuming you're around 17 or 18? Betty: Yup, 17 maybe. Duany: So, after high school, grad— �Betty: Or 18 yeah. Duany:18 years old? Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: After you graduated high school in Medan— Betty: Mm-hm Duany: —what college did you attend? Betty: Hmm, Institute Technology of Bandung, in Bandung. Duany: Interesting. So, can you tell me a little bit more about that school? I heard rumors from you before in the past, it was kind of like the MIT of Indonesia, but in Indonesia. [Both laugh] Betty: Yeah, so ITB is one of the best school in Indonesia. So, and it's uh technology school. So, I think it's more like MIT in here. So, for uh School of Technology, ITB is the best, it’s number one in Indonesia. That's why I compare it with MIT in here. Duany: Cool. Betty: Yep. Duany: So, sorry to backtrack a little bit. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Back to your life in Medan. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Despite all the challenging uh issues you've had to face such as adaptation and like how you said the education was much more advanced. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: You still had the ability to perform well to get into the quote unquote MIT of Indonesia. How is that possible? Betty: Yeah, because it's challenging just for—for me for the uh about the hmm study is challenging just for a few months, but after that, I can catch up with the uh with the— Duany: Material. �Betty: The material, yeah. It’s just challenging for like maybe like three or two or three months, but after that, I can catch up with the material. Duany: Interesting, so very on—very early in your life— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —you were born in Bah Jambi, sorry to trackback a little bit. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: But you were born in Bah Jambi. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: You moved to different plantations. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Such as Mayang, and then you moved to Medan, and now, still very early in your life really in the grand scheme of things at the age of 18— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —you are now technically at one of the best schools in Indonesia. How does that feel for you at such a young age, already experiencing a lot in your life? Betty: Hmm I think that’s just uh common. I mean, not for everybody of course, but because uh I have a lot of friends from plantation, so they have the same life with me. So, I think my thinking myself think that, yeah, that's common not just me experienced that thing but a lot of my friends experience that thing also. And because like uh we in Medan, the university not really good, the quality—the grade is not very good. So most of the students in my high school at a time uh we aim for better university in Java Island like to uh University of Indonesia, that’s that one of the best also, or to university in Jogja. So that's why I don't feel like that's very special. I think that's—that's it's common. Duany: [Laughs] So could you say that it was kind of like the—your environment? Betty: Yeah. Duany: You're, for example, when you were in Medan, it was kind of like your high school friends that pushed you and each other to aim for higher education rather than like, your family, parents pushing you or your multiple siblings pushing you? Or was it a mixture of both? �Betty: Yeah, a mix of both, so in my family, also, uh told us, my parents also told us to, yeah, aim high. Something like that. And because like my school—I went to the best high school in Medan. That's why all of my friends like they hmm all of them like try to get into the best university in Indonesia. That's why it's like, dragging me to—to go high also, that’s why, I think. Duany: That's cool. Did your siblings also achieve any high education after high school of any sort? Betty: Yeah, all—uh, yeah, all of my—not all, uh, my siblings, uh, went to university also and my sister went to ITB. And that's from her I—because of her I think about to go ITB also. She influenced me to go there. Duany: [To the listener:] So she's referring to her sister, and my aunt, Elby. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Older sister— Betty: Yeah. Duany: —that also went to the same college as her before my mother attended. So, you could say that she was like—was she your biggest role model at the time? Betty: Hmm, for school yeah, because she’s very smart. [Both laugh] Duany: That's cool. So okay. So now, right, you're 18 years old, you arrive to the Institute Technology of Bandung. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: It’s 1990. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Around 1990. Um. You said in the past that in Medan, it was already hard to adapt. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: You know, because the people there were not all parents—uh sons and daughters of plantation workers. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Now, how is it even different now the culture in Bandung compared to Medan, knowing that in Medan, for example, probably one of the highest Christian populations in Indonesia right now to Bandung an area with a lot of different ethnicities and religions such as Islam. �Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: How is the culture in Bandung compared to Medan or and even Bah Jambi? Betty: Yes, so the challenging mostly because of the culture, if it's about religion. Because in Medan, even though the Christian is like high percentage, but not really higher, it's like 50/50. So, when in Bandung it’s not about—the challenging not because of the religion, but because of the culture. Bandung is in West Java, so mostly the student in there is Sundanese. And because this is the best school, so the student came from all of our in Indonesia from middle—middle Java, East Java, and from another Island. So, it's like, we almost like every part in Indonesia came to ITB. Uh yeah, so it's another challenging, it's a different culture. And also the—yeah because this—I have to study hard in there, because it's not easy. Duany: [Laughs] That's very interesting. I like how you mentioned that. I always forget that the best schools means the best students from everywhere. So, it's such a diverse pool of people. Betty: Yeah. Duany: So, for you having to overcome diversity already in the past— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —such as in Medan, were you kind of used to it at this point, or was it still just even more challenging because the diversity was literally everybody from all parts of Indonesia? Betty: Hmm, I think uh—I think like just the same thing. I—I knew that I can handle it; that I can overcome all the challenging so I uh I knew that I just need some time. After that I know I will be okay, something like that. Duany: That’s cool. Betty: Yeah. Duany: But because of there's so many people— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —of all types, how, in ITB, how did you find your community or your friends? Betty: Uh, for the first, of course, the closest friends come from—my friends in the same major, because in, in ITB, if we are in the same major, so we have the same classes every day, so easy for—for us to make friends and to build up friendship. Because we meet every day, we study together, so we have fun together, so easy to uh build up a friendship in there. �Duany: So, if you wanted to make friends with other people outside your major, or even maybe people outside your graduating class, how was that possible? Betty: Uh we have like student club in here, we have something like that also in ITB. So, in that club, we can make friends with people from another major. So, for example, for—for me, I join uh the name of the club is Unit Kasiniyan Sumatra Utara so it's like, uh called art culture from uh North Sumatra. So—so the base is North Sumatra culture. And in that club, I met people from another major. And also, I join uh Christian organization we call Navigator. So, in that club, I met people from another major. So that's how I make friends with uh people outside from my major. Duany: Interesting. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: So, for example—oh, sorry, just to clarify the cultural club for North Sumatra? Betty: Mm-hm, Duany: North Sumatra is the province where—Medan is located in North Sumatra. Betty: Mm-hm, Duany: And as we know, my interviewee grew up in Medan. Betty: Yeah. Duany: So, it's kind of like a cultural art club related to some things she has probably done in Medan and other—and other cities in North Sumatra. And I was going to ask, umm, what activities did you guys do in that club that related back to, you know, your roots back in Medan or North Sumatra? Betty: So, in that club, we—we learn and also promote the North Sumatra culture. So, in North Sumatra, we have like Batak, uh Malayu, and like, six or seven, or maybe seven ethnic [groups] in North Sumatra, so we learn about that, their culture, and we promote that. So, it’s like we have a performance to—to show people our culture through dance, music, and uh everything that we can. From art, uh painting, something like that. Duany: Cool. Betty: Yeah. Duany: That’s really cool. Betty: Mm-hm. �Duany: And the other club, the Christian club, Navigators? Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Can you explain like, what activities you do at that club or what events? Betty: Yeah, the regular activity is bible study, and sometimes we have picnic together, or we have uh sport, it’s like uh, we call it mini Olympics. So, we—we compete in athletic and everything, just for fun, and to know each other, something like that. Duany: That’s cool. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: I find it really cool how you adapt to ITB. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: One of the hardest places to adapt that you've experienced in your life so far— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —at this point, because it was just so diverse. You made new friends, you joined new clubs. Now, when did you meet your boyfriend that after soon became your husband? Betty: I met him in those two clubs in North Sumatra club and in Navigators. And yeah. [Both laugh] Duany: So, I guess um, what major was your boyfriend at the time? Betty: Yeah, he was in architecture. Duany: That’s cool. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: So, he was actually involved in both clubs? Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: That must be pretty interesting. So, it's like, oh, for you, you must have been—he related to your roots. Betty: Yeah. Duany: But at the same time, also a big fact that he was the same religion as you. �Betty: Yeah. Duany: Which is very interesting. Just a statistic: um Indonesia is a predominantly Muslim country with around 89 to 90% being a Muslim, and the rest of the 8% are divided into religions such as Hindu, Christianity. So, you can just imagine how small the population of Christians are in Indonesia. So, you—he became your boyfriend. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: You guys graduated the same year? Betty: Yeah. Duany: What year was that? Betty: 1995. Duany: 1995. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: 1995, you were 18 when you entered. Betty: Yes, so it’s like 23. Duany: So now, at this point in your life, you are 23 years old. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: So, after graduation, congratulations, by the way. Betty: Thank you. [Laughs] Duany: After graduation, um when did you marry your boyfriend? That is now your husband to this day? Betty: It’s 1997, December 1997. Duany: Interesting. So, during those two years, did you have a job or what were you doing? Betty: Yeah. Duany: After graduation basically. Betty: I worked in the consultant company related to environmental engineering. �Duany: Cool. Betty: Yeah, my major was environmental engineering. Duany: Nice, so, when you married— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —your hus—your now husband, in 1997 where did you guys live? Betty: In, oh, it's kind of interesting because before we married uh my boyfriend then [laughs] he was, uh got internship in Baltimore. So, before we married he went to—he came to Baltimore and he worked like six months and then he came back to Jakarta and we got married in Medan. And right after we got married we—together we came here to Baltimore and stay in Baltimore for one more year and after that we came back to Jakarta and we live in Jakarta until 2004. Duany: So, your husband—well, boyfriend at the time went to the United States in 1995? Betty: No, 1997. Duany: Oh, seven. Betty: Yeah, so we married on December, right? Duany: Right. Betty: So, he came here got internship uh on June, came back in December we got married and right after that we came together to United States for one more year. Duany: Oh. Betty: Yeah so we came back again to Indonesia in 1998, oh, 1999. Duany: Interesting. Betty: Yeah. Duany: So, when you first went to the United States, can you tell me how that process was like at the time? Betty: What kind of process? Duany: Uh for example, your husband had a internship. Betty: Yeah. �Duany: Right? Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: But how was he allowed to bring you? Betty: Oh yeah, we just uh applied for uh so for internship my husband have a H, no, J, J1 visa so, for the spouse the visa is J4, or J2, something like that. So, yeah I just apply for that kind of visa. Duany: And you got it? Betty: Yeah. Duany: Wow, I see. [Laughs] Betty: I think for the spouse is not as difficult as the—like my husband to get the J1 visa that’s difficult because it has to uh company or organization to uh apa nama nya, to give to sponsor that visa but for the spouse yeah as long as—it's not that difficult something like that. Duany: So, did your husband have to apply to the internship in Bal—to the one in Baltimore or was he received the opportunity? Betty: Uh, yeah so anytime uh the consultant that he got intern to, they have project in Indonesia, uh the project that uh from the company that—my husband’s name is Kurnia, that Kurnia work with and then because of the partnership and Kurnia got the chance that got a opportunity to intern to this company in US. That's how he got the opportunity. Duany: Oh, that's really cool. So, can you clarify again, after you were married in 1997— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: You went to the US for one year, nine—so, 1997 to 1998. Betty: Yeah. Duany: And I know that my older brother, my—which is my—also my only sibling. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: He was also born in— Betty: In here. Duany: Baltimore. �Betty: Yeah. Duany: And he was a US citizen because of that. Betty: Yeah. Duany: Even though— Betty: Even though— Duany: —shortly after, you guys went back to Jakarta? Betty: Yeah. Because uh—Ame—United States they, uh what is it called? Like, sanc—there's a term for it that people who was born in here, automatically they—they have uh US citizenship. There's a term for that kind of things. [Birth Right Citizenship] Duany: Hmm. Betty: So that's why even though we are Indonesian, but because Mesakh was born in here, automatically, he has a US citizenship. Duany: Oh, I see, Mesakh, uh is the name of the—my older brother that was born here. Betty: Yep. Duany: Which is also my only sibling. So, when you guys moved back to Jakarta it was 1999? Betty: Yeah. Duany: And how long were you guys there for? Betty: Uh until 2004. So, it’s like five years? Duany: Okay, so five years in Jakarta, right? Betty: Yeah. Duany: Now, you’ve been to—you’ve been from Bah Jambi, Mayang, very small plantation areas, to Medan— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —a big city— Betty: Mm-hm. �Duany: And then college in— Betty: Bandung. Duany: Bandung, and now you’re at Jakarta. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany; Which is not only the capital city of Indonesia, but you could also call it as like the New York City in terms of center of trade, right? Betty: Yeah, commercial. Duany: And also, not having to mention already experiencing a little bit of United States. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: How did that feel for you at the time at a relatively young age already experiencing so much? Betty: [Laughs] Uh, I don't really think of it. So, I just maybe because I am kind of people who like, yeah just go with the flow. [Laughs] So, I don't really think much about it. So yeah. So, whenever there’s opportunity just grab it. And then yeah, just try to adapt and just try to love it. Yeah, for me, yeah, it’s something like that. Duany: So, you weren't—so you—I'm guessing it was very quick for you to adapt to Jakarta’s very busy lifestyle. Lots of traffic. Betty: Yeah, but because even though we live in Jakarta, but we live in area, uh, that it's like, it's not really crowded. So, and because I'm—I wasn't working at the time, so I'm a full time uh housewife. Just full-time mother. So, I don't have to face the all the crowd, crowdness, all the traffic jam in Jakarta. So, for me at the time, it was okay. Because I just stay at home and everything in our—near my—our house, everything in there. So, if I need to go to hospital, or to market, or school, everything in there just close by so I don't need to go outside. Uh outside to downtown, something like that. So, I don't have to face traffic jam and all the crowdness, something like that. Duany: [Laughs] That’s cool. And in 2001, you gave birth to your second son— Betty: Yaaay! Duany: —in Jakarta, which is me. Betty: [Laughs] �Duany: So—but I am Indonesian citizen. Betty: Yup. Duany: How did it make you feel when you had one son that's a US citizen, but living in Indonesia and having another son as an Indonesian citizen living in Indonesia? Betty: Hmm, yeah. Yeah because we live in Indonesia so it doesn't matter, I think. Duany: [Laughs]. Betty: And even though like even Mesakh is a US citizen, but because uh we’re the parents is are Indonesian so—so I think it doesn't matter because I'm Indonesian, even though Mesakh a US citizen, and we live in Indonesia. But as long as I'm Indonesian, I think that's fine. So, the uh the challenging is when we come—come back to US because we are not US citizen so uh I think that's the challenge. But when we live in Indonesia, it's not a pob—a problem. Duany: Hmm, so when did you officially move to the United States? Betty: 2004. Duany: Your—how did the process of that work? Betty: Yes, so Kurnia, my husband, got opportunity to come back to here, to United States. So— Duany: Baltimore? Betty: Baltimore. And at that time, he came here with H1 Visa; that’s a visa for work. And then after he settle like a few months after he got apartment for us, and then he came to Baltimore, to join him. Duany: You came to Baltimore. Betty: Yeah. With you too. Duany: Oh yeah. Betty: And Mesakh. Duany: So, we were living under, at that point, it was called the H1 Visa— Betty: H1. Duany: —but then it got converted to— Betty: To permanent resident. �Duany: —Permanent Green Card Resident? Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Okay, interesting. So, why did you come to United States despite having a comfortable life in Jakarta? Why did Kurnia, your husband, my father, take the opportunity? Betty: Yeah, because uh we think that uh America has a better opportunity for uh better life, better education, especially for you and Mesakh. That's why we take that opportunity because, mostly because, yeah, in here, everything better. So, like the environment, the school, the education, and health system. That's why, especially like at the time Mesakh was in the treatment for leukemia. So that's why this uh to came to America it's like uh very best opportunity for us to get best uh health system for Mesakh, best treatment for Mesakh. That's why we took that opportunity. Duany: Wow very inspiring. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: And now he's a healthy— Betty: Yup. Duany: —guy. [Laughs] Cool. So, how did your family and your friends, such as like you said in Medan your long—your best friend— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —and then friends from college, how did they feel when you announced you're coming to the United States? Betty: Yeah, they, uh, I think they—I don't really—I never asked them how they feel about that. But I think uh they happy for me? Duany: [Laughs] Cool. So now that you're in the United States— Betty: Yeah. Duany: —you start fresh again. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Just like how you have in Medan. Betty: Yeah. �Duany: And just like how you have in Bandung. And even in Jakarta a little bit. Betty: Yeah. Duany: How did you accommodate to this new lifestyle? Betty: Mm, for the second time came to US is, of course, much easier than for—from the first time because for the second time, I already knew about United States. I knew about the culture and yeah so it's uh I've—I think at that time, I feel so excited about everything in here so I don't feel is I don't think it's difficult to adjust. I feel excited. Duany: Cool. Betty: Yeah, no, everything, [laughs] yeah, I don't feel any fear or—or difficulties. Even though there's—there was challenging, of course, but I was excited! Duany: Wow. Betty: Yeah. Duany: That’s really cool. It seems like you have matured and just grew to be a stronger person. Betty: I think so, yeah. Duany: Cool, umm, of course coming from Indonesia, you spoke Bahasa Indonesian. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Were there any language barriers of any sort when you move to the United States? Betty: Of course, uh language is the—the most difficult uh to adopt, to make friends, to—yeah to everything. But I feel like I don't really care about it because I’m I think, Yeah, of course I don't have uh good English or I cannot speak English fluently because I'm not brought with that language so I don't really care about it. [Laughs] As long as I can understand and people can understand me. So yeah, that's what I think. If maybe peep—people uh feel like uh put—no, looked down on me because of that, but I don't really care because— Duany: [Laughs] Betty: —because I think, yeah, it doesn't matter. Can you speak Indonesian? Duany: [Laughs] Betty: No. Right? Yeah. So that's the same thing. �Duany: Can you explain again clarify when and where you learn to speak English? Betty: Uh I learn English back from middle school? Duany: Wow. So, you took the little English you learned in middle school all the way to the United States? Betty: Yeah, but, you know, in school, even though you learn new language, like years and years— Duany: Mm-hm. Betty: —but it's not really help, actually. But yeah, at least I know the uh yeah, at least, I know a little bit even though it's not enough to—to, what? To make you— Duany: Yeah. Betty: —to help you make conversation with someone from another language, something like that. Duany: So, did a lot of learning just come from— Betty: After I live in here. Duany: Coming, watching shows— Betty: Yeah watching, yes. Duany: —in English? Betty: Yeah and reading books. Duany: Reading books in English, talking to people in English? Betty: Yeah. Duany: Okay, that’s really cool. So, when you first arrived to the United States— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —you said you were living in an apartment, right? Betty: Yeah. Duany: What jobs did you work? �Betty: Uh, for the first time I just stay home, and then after a few years, I work in uh dry cleaners. Laundromat dry cleaners. Duany: And, at the time, it was a walking distance of— Betty: Yeah, it's like across the street. Duany: [Laughs] Less than two minutes. Betty: Yeah. Duany: Something like that. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: That's kind of incredible. So, when you first um came to the United States, you did not have a personal vehicle or you did? Betty: For the first time? Of course not. We have uh to use public transportation. Because we don't have driver license yet. Duany: And even when you officially moved in 2004 you still did not have a car for how long? Betty: Hmm, I don't remember, either six months or a year, something like that. Duany: Wow, so how was life like without, you know, any private vehicle and having to rely on public transportations, like bus routes? Was it difficult at the time? Betty: Yeah, of course, it's difficult. That's why we live in city, so we can uh use public transportation. So, it's just like we need to walk to uh bus station. And then yeah, it's not really difficult, but it's not easy too but it was okay. Duany: [Laughs] Betty: We can enjoy even though at the time we don't have a car, but I remember we went to uh places that far away. Maybe we have to spend like, one hour—one—almost two hours in the bus, just for to go to shopping center, or to Annapolis, but we went. We still go everywhere. I mean, we don't want to just stay at home because we don't have car. Duany: Mm-hm. Betty: That's why I told you even though it's not easy, but we're—we were very excited. So, we just go everywhere we just do everything we want to do. Duany: [Laughs] �Betty: [Laughing] So nothing can stop us at that time. Duany: I really praise your ability to adapt and utilize and maximize the best out of your time. Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: Not—and using your disadvantages as advantages, kind of— Betty: Mm-hm. Duany: —to still do what you really want to do. Betty: Yeah. Duany: That's really cool. Umm so of course you know, your whole life you’ve been moving everywhere, you've been meeting new friends. Betty: Mm-hm Duany: How in the United States did you meet new people or find a community? Betty: Of course, the first community we went to is a Indonesian community, so we made friends from Indonesia, we are all Indonesian. And then we went to church and this is new community for us, church, and we went to Indonesian community but in another city from our— the same ethnic, it's Batak ethnic we went to that community. Yeah so pretty much we try to make a lot of friends in here so we can feel like at home because we have friends. Duany: Nice. But despite having all these new communities did you ever have a—a longing, like you miss home, you miss family, you miss your friends back in Indonesia? Betty: Yeah, of course, uh, especially family because friends cannot replace family, you know? Even though we have a lot of friends in here we are happy in here, but still we—we miss our family because like I said friends cannot replace family. So, and uh not just the family itself but also the—the place like because I grew up in Indonesia, so I miss Indonesia a lot. I like miss the food even though I can have that kind of food in here also, but, yeah, the situation is different so that—that things still I miss. That's why uh I try to go home every year, go to Indonesia every year so I can meet family, I can uh feel uh the sit—Indonesian situation again, not just the food but the feeling, you know? And yeah everything in Indonesia, that's why I tried to go to Indonesia go home every year. Duany: Nice. In the summer, right? Betty: In the summer. Duany: So, me and my brother could come. �Betty: Yup. Duany: So just to clarify, we—we go home every summer? Betty: Yeah. Duany: Around ever since 2010 it was almost every summer and we've just still became much deeply rooted in our Indonesian cultures while also still being raised in the United States. So, it's very interesting and I'm thankful that you allow us to experience the Indonesian life despite having a normal American upbringing. So, thank you for that, and um yeah that's awesome! So, you—you found a new community, you took advantage of every opportunity you could in America, and eventually over time, just like the past um 17 years you've been here— Betty: Mm-hm Duany: —you've kind—you just became used to it, you still make new friends, can you just tell me how your experiences are now after these years of being in the United States? Betty: Hmm. Yeah, uh I love United States, I like being here, I love the—yeah, everything in here. All the—all the, yeah, culture and pretty much everything. It's like my home. Not like, but it is my home here in America. So, I think I'm a lucky person because I have two home, Indonesia and America. Duany: Mm-hm. Betty: So yeah, I'm lucky. I—I uh have uh experience to live in Indonesia and United States. And I'm happy, and I'm rich in experience, that's what I say. Duany: That's beautiful. Great. Is there anything else you'd like to tell us before we finish? Betty: Hmm. Thank you for interviewing me. Duany: [Laughs] Betty: Because before you ask me this kind of question, sometimes I don't think about it. But when you asked me and then I think and that's makes me—uh that's a reminder for me that I am a lucky person that I have a lot of blessing in my life. Thank you. Duany: Yep, no problem. And thank you for being my interviewee, that concludes it. Thank you. Betty: Yaaay! � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2021 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Duany Philip Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Betty Junianti Simarmata Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Betty Simarmata Description An account of the resource This interview between Duany Philip and Betty Simarmata goes into the experiences of Betty, an Indonesian immigrant that has lived in the United States ever since 2004. Although Betty had to overcome challenges when coming to the United States, her experiences in Indonesia gave her the strength to move despite the major differences in culture, people, and lifestyle. Her upbringing in plantation farms, living in the city of Medan, Bandung, and even Jakarta have shaped her identity as a proud Indonesian to this day. Her story emphasizes how culture is important to an immigrant’s life because it gives a sense of identity of who you are and where you come from. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2021). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Duany Philip Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2021 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, M4A, jpg Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Christianity culture family friendship Indonesia religion https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4a2d9e875fd104da6256fd4eb88981e3.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=niU1BRQmPrkZLHS5PCroF03dWsRvv1AqFedHcl8Mvse9EpmJfACUyATAmhSPJiP%7EG3YAIApI2FyhJ0Rs4zlUzS8HHWjlC85x0C2ElhpuNSYQf8Gm26hCyXB8uvDrl0WiMv2utyFQYEA8wo-Q1p0sEiBTnPe9xjTd6nKM4tY1pkmXhOZ%7EZC9shQRml9LmA37g9Qo3TiLrvEmeq8KDl5wJMG-xMWMT0rETor9TufpAhyVhXmkp2voeLrLXTCPEPapvhhr4WcJuTT7HJ2Y65WWhnWNGf9gBlPdmEpC3j%7Eeo-VoHG-HSTHkvDAuYoOGej0ILqtqjsZW3Ce5GNJF8Rl6jOQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 6147894ad22328604a02f7e8ed554f7b https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/7070aee80ef97c39565f505e41899703.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=F7gR0%7EHdilsYRAhUCbFqNvwh4AFuxALQHhkYdR%7EWg2CKqzjabXcXR1ZkArQ5z9oTvmRyDQW9u7h2j2iqcMwdncIMpps4b09hMobd6YZ1KfihhNW0ZIRDoQJTdQZLfGYUN1CuDhb5drzJ1DXIkK7wcycMgIkPn3jvjiiPTp2LEJsbVZN8Zcl62aztxEEHvHYheS5PVzTylkM3gvEz0u9Gd8eEJWjQMIl3NI1eWbZmU4xhumhlrJPsRuBDCTj6JQcz%7EZ1Eni95CMRF0feRsOmsgFvLQfTMlSriuFIP0Y%7ESNzSO%7E7A0hFL3ZfLr191tkrF8qoxldls83q8tx6I3yKiF6w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 3c716310d12b0ca10878c8a3bde68026 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/4a892d9388631515563fefe127a0c9f5.mp3?Expires=1779926400&Signature=KQ%7EXjOwtIoYCfblP3mF3FE11-CWE6V-ZSJAs-O3HjsWyg9KyTro6za3sWaquCL-z3BvPbN7L9ZvVTz9MzrdrDCOe7mX-PJaESepVyD8X3dKzE8lVB-sIZZLzLtdHd8uu1t%7EJdkdkdQ%7EUNeeqTQtBtObdBQyYNF9Vkh4VNncM9Vv64hecwUZCaFNAbY2vTLzr1JJT%7EwS-i-3C0M72xWUItM782OIyAu43REPdlq92oMWoU6mgNUadkJI31D%7EiNp--GOrYZ1mpFos4KrLuGpmO2r1nWWerv7W0IIPrPq73T%7ELQV8SzmxgK2%7E4Dgf4I7XujlX%7EjqsKrveSoOeXhtEyByQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 009db56466f16115bde2f90d683a4d4c https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/9228135b4ae80c8deba4da2d498b653e.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=o36PLOD76wIA5p72XXanJEBmqU5Ko23oap7ZfBD5Dc3vHN5TE%7EKkPMV3zR-2DxZR9Spo3yftspMFWZS1Zlwi4t4orb%7EfoibiEeHSPEferDfSvtGuK5nxn4FGZ1DndMnoba3Ui-E94Z2BYtTZrQb3C3E7DMpjg2Tvl9PAtCtHBsj8nk9sRTA0E18oRXmZLwHP7Tt83vPohGIG8uRT-WgY4MSIAww3gRwWQEjYWSFFUhfUzq2hLGnnSRT6-8uCZjx-6a1kUnj1CPazWqizCIcxyXoOu6dXk7AuqReVjNIKEu3Mjo2SM92H0Xf%7EH5gc620J9kWBqImFQ7zplqVamOP%7EdQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 66885a1a9ebe362a9b1bc980e0f290c8 PDF Text Text Transcript of an Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course IMMR 400 – Spring 2020 Instructor: Dr. Chiles Interviewer: Harshaan Grewal Interviewee: Kul Sandhu Interviewee’s Country of Origin: India Introduction: This interview between Harshaan Grewal and Kul Sandhu discusses Kul’s immigration from India to the US, as well as Kul’s family, marriage, school, and philosophies of life. Kul talks about political and religious conflict he and his family experienced in India. Kul also speaks about convincing his family to let him move to the US, the way in which his grandmother advocated for him to move, as well as eventually sponsoring his family to become US citizens themselves. Key Words: India, Sikh, education, marriage, sponsor, friendship, Punjab, green card, John F. Kennedy Harshaan: Um. Okay so it says recording on my end. So, with that we’ll get started. So, first question I want to ask um is what part of India did you grow up in? Kul: Well, I was born in 1937. And uh I lived with my grandmother from ’37-’45. That means, you know—no ‘37 to ‘47, not ‘45. Ten years. Because my father had a job at different places. He was an agriculture/horticulture specialist. So, he was at jobs with my mom and my sister next to me and one of my brothers next to. And so, grandmother was all by herself, and knowing that Indian families, what happened is my grandfather’s two brothers were living in the same complex. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And their—and my grandmother was young, she got married when she was 13 years old, and my grandfather never came back from the World War. And my [grand]father, he never knew that my father, you know, father was going to be born. And father, my father did not see his father. And so, what we did, she [Kul’s grandmother] wanted some sort of security, that there’s a male member is with her. Unless—even though I was a little kid. But what it was that the other people said, “Okay, why don’t you get married to us,” so they could get the land and all those things, you know. That was the— People did that in India for being, you know, uh that. There were two—my grandfather’s two brothers were living in the same complex. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: So, in 1947—that was India at that time too, ‘37-’47. �Harshaan: Oh, that’s right, that’s right. Kul: When it became Pakistan, then we had to leave quickly. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And um you know [I was] 10 years old and all that stuff. Um and with my other brother, two sisters and one brother, my parents. We all—in the middle of the night we left because we were afraid that somebody would kill us also. So, we travelled in uh nighttime, and hide in the sugar cane fields to save our lives. Harshaan: Oh, wow. Kul: Uh, and it took us almost about a week from where they were. My father was the horticulture manager for “Maharaja of Faridkot” who had 2,500 acres of beautiful fruit trees, all that stuff, you know. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And uh he was given a car and a hor—white horse, and other stuff, but we had to leave it in an emergency. So finally, when we came to the border, which was a river in Punjab. There were five rivers. Two—two and a half [of the rivers], you know, they were in what became Pakistan and the other one stayed with Punjab. So, we came in around uh one o’clock in the morning or something, because that’s the time they said, you know, that you could—would let you cross. It was our family and a few other people in the bus. The other four trucks were loaded with people, refugees, they were not allowed to [cross], you know. So, there was one policeman, Muslim policeman that came in, he said, with tears he came in and said, “You have only 15 minutes to live, because we have orders to kill all of you. You cannot cross the border.” Because my father was a known person, you know, and all that. So, quickly we got into the cars and, you now, all went back to another village, and there father—my father made a deal with the policeman over there in that little town or village that if we could go—because he [the policeman] told us earlier that “My family, son and his family is stuck back on the other side and they won’t let—let them come.” And so, you know, we said, “Why don’t we make a trade?” At three o’clock in the morning we crossed the border. Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: Because of the trade. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And then, you know, from there we were travelling to my mother’s place that was—we were in Punjab, which is India now. And uh in Ludhiana, that’s where my mother’s village was, we saw all sorts of uh what you call uh dead bodies on the sidewalks on the side of the road, dogs and birds eating. This is what the, you know, situation we went through. And for 10 years old it was kind of hard to believe. And uh so what we did was that my father when we came in, �he became a big officer because he was educated, he got his bachelor’s degree in science in 1936. I was born in 1937 in Lahore which was the capital of Punjab at that time. So, um he got a good job and we moved to uh a city called Karnal, which was 73 miles from New Delhi. That was Punjab also at the same time. And he was a big officer and uh, you know, all the stuff. And um the land we had left behind because we were farmers, and that land had to be from that Lyallpur, you know, that little city, we had to go to Hassar another little province. Uh but luckily what happened was that my father being—knowing all that stuff, he found a law that said if you happened to have some land that we’ll put the other land with it too. So, he went and bought thirteen acres of land just outside Karnal, which was undeveloped, but we will take care of it. That’s how we came into, you know, um after—in ‘48, ‘49 we bought the land and we build the house there. Okay? And then when I grew up there, we walk for three miles to go to high school and then to college. And uh I went to a Punjab college called Dyaal Singh College. And that college is the one which uh was three miles, so what we do we went there, you know, and that’s where we survived. After I graduated, then my father had some influence and all that stuff and uh he— in 1959 I got my undergraduate degree. And it was called Punjab University Dyaal Singh College. And my father was quite influential, so he working out with different judges and all those people because he had a good post also. So, he had somebody came in, he say, “I have a problem with my uh self, you know, could you help us out, you know, to talk to the judge.” So, he thought he could do that, you know, and get out of it. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: My sister’s [mother’s] brother, my Mama ji, he was there too, and they gave him piece of paper, “This is the case, this the name of the people, let’s give this to judge and they’ll be fine.” And I took the bicycle, I went part of the way and discovered I didn’t bring the piece of paper, so what am I going to do? When I came in secretly to pick up the piece of paper, um I overheard the conversation going on between my mother, her brother, and my father. He said, “Now—” remember, I’m the oldest in the family of five, and they said, “You know, he’s grown up, we— and he finished his college, we’ll get him a good job and get him married.” And I said, “Oh my god, I don’t want to get married!” You know? (both laugh) I—I took the piece of paper, went back, and took it to, you know, meeting his judge. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: One of my friends from my uh mother’s village, uh Ram Prakash Mahant, lived across from them. He went to Canada to study, and uh he wanted me to come to Canada. And when I learned that they’re trying to get me married and all that stuff, they want me to take care of the farm and all that stuff, I didn’t want to do it. Harshaan: Right. Kul: So, I wrote to Ram Prakash Mahant, “Hey, I think, you know, I need to get out from here, and um this is a situation I’ll explain to you later, but uh see if you could help me out.” I sent the papers to him, and in Vancouver, University of British Columbia, uh he was—that’s where he was going to school. He sent me the papers, I applied for it, I got the admission. �Harshaan: Oh wow! That’s awesome. Kul: Once I got the admission, immigration used to be fairly simple, you know. So, when I got the admission, I got the—even the card room assigned in the dorm, all that stuff ready to go. I was going to be going to the engineering school. And what happened when I went to the—I told my father, okay, once I made up my mind, I don’t want to stick around there. And in my heart it was, “I don’t want to get married, I want to go, and you know, why not?” Harshaan: Yeah, yeah. Kul: And my uh—I told my father I gotta go. I want to go. He said, “Oh you can’t go.” And I said, “Oh, but Ram Prakash is there and I’ve been talking to him.” And he says, “I don’t care.” Then I use my grandmother as a weapon. Because I spent first ten years with my grandmother to be really helpful to her even though I was a kid. I told my grandmother, “I want to go.” And she said, “You sure?” I say, “Yes.” I said, “I do want to go.” And she said, “Okay, well let’s see what I can do.” In the meantime, I went to the embassy in New Delhi. Uh, Canadian embassy. And I gave them the paper. They said, “Looks everything good, and we’ll get the medical done, and then come back in ten days, you know, fifteen days with medical, and then we’ll proceed it.” I got my whole test done by the local hospital. Once I went to the doctor, I went over there for my visa. (laughing) They flunked me for my stool examination. I got it done, it was okay, they said—I said, “Here is the proof.” And they said, “No, it’s our doctor who decides that.” That’s when I found out that I forgot to give them under the table some money. Five rupees (laughing). Harshaan: Five rupees. That’s it? Kul: Five rupees. That’s it! Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: So, I told my guy, you know, I said, “When can I come back?” He said, “Get ready in three months and come back.” Harshaan: That’s a long time. Kul: Within three months, my admissions and everything was going to go away. So, I said, “Hey, this is a situation, what should I do?” So, privately I just, you know, uh went to the library and pick up the other universities in United States. So, where I could—finally, I applied to a couple of places. I got accepted at United States. In Nashville, Tennessee. Harshaan: Nashville. I remember you [inaudible] Kul: So—yeah. So, I got out of things and I went to the embassy and that’s the day Kennedy, our president here, he’s the one who won the election. And they were in a good mood and all that stuff, and they said, “Okay, go to the doctor.” And I went to the doctor where everything was �clear. I—I had—I got the passport earlier, um and then I came back and my father said, “No, you can’t go.” I said, “Well, I have to, look I have this passport, visa, all that stuff.” He said, “Nope, I’m not paying for it.” So, I went to grandma and said, “Here’s the situation.” She said, “I know you want to go, I want to you be happy, so let’s see what I could do.” She went to my father, she said, “He has to go because I want him to go.” He said, “No, he can’t go.” She said, “Okay, I’m going on a hunger strike, and I’m not going eat a bite ‘til that happens that he goes.” And he tested her for one—one and a half days. She did not eat anything. And finally, he—my mother happy for me because she wanted me to go. She talked to her brother and her brother said, “Go ahead, you know, if you are going to go, I’ll pay for your ticket.” Yeah, and he lived about, you know, two hundred miles away from us. Yeah. So, finally that give me the courage, my grandmother ended her one day on a hunger strike, and finally, hey, I did—I got the ticket on BOAC [British Airways] up on the plane. That was the month of uh November 1960. And I came to New York. First, you know, the plane landed in London, and I had to change the flight from there, you know, for New York. (chuckling) And uh, what happened was, they said, “Lunch is on the go— uh house.” Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: And there were forks and knives, I didn’t know how to use those! (Harshaan laughs) My stomach is hurting I am already full! Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: (laughing) But, you know, I just hopped on the plane and came to New York. The flight came in uh, oh somewhere close to 10:30-11:00 in New York. Then I had to change the flights to go from there to Nashville, Tennessee, and that flight reached there around 3:30 AM. And uh I thought, you know, uh, you know, everything’s open, but 3:30 AM was very early—dark. And I went to those people at the staff, you know, airline staff and said, “What should I do?” They said, “You can’t stay here.” You know, because everybody’s gone and all that stuff. So, I said, “What should I do?” He said, “You gotta go to a hotel or motel.” So, I went to the motel, I mean I had some money in my pocket, and I went to the motel, uh and I stayed there for two hours and then I went to the University. Harshaan: Oh, in your dorm, right? Kul: Yeah. And uh for two hours I paid for the night. And after I paid my first semester’s fees, uh I had about $7.20 in my pocket. But the fees were to cover my two semesters, you know. Harshaan: Right, right, yeah. Kul: So, uh I—I was in pretty good shape, you know, in that sense. I don’t know whether you could see my picture or not. This is what I was in turban. (shows picture but not in a way that camera can see it) Harshaan: You mind holding it up a bit? You mind angling it up a little more? �Kul: Oh, higher? Harshaan: Yeah, higher. Kul: (shows picture of about nine men in suits) Harshaan: Okay, not I can see it. Kul: Yeah. I’m the one in the middle right here. Yeah, there were two other Indians, one on this side with the turban (points to the right) and the other guy from Bombay. Harshaan: I see. Kul: And other people of course from different places, you know. Okay? So, what happened was that, you know, I—I said, “Well—” The admission I got was Auto Diesel College, but you know, I wear a necktie and suit and all that stuff. Um I didn’t want to be a mechanic or anything. Harshaan: Right. Kul: So, I went to university called Peabody College. Harshaan: Peabody? Kul: Peabody. And it’s Vanderbilt University and Peabody College program. I went—I went for my graduate school there, got admission, and start my work there. And then I had figured out, you know, I—you know, I’ll start majoring in geography because my undergraduate degree was in geography uh and English and physics. So, I was doing okay, uh then I had to try to figure out, you know, what I’m gonna do because a master’s degree in arts is not gonna get me a good job. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And it’s only side I worked at gas station, you know, whatever it is to that, you know, stuff. And finally, I went to couple of places to get a better field. My parents wanted me to be either a doctor or engineer. But, uh my math was not that good, so I didn’t want to be an engineer. Doctor, I didn’t want to be a doctor because in high school in India, I took the uh, you know, b— biology and botany, and the teacher, first they said, “You know, we are going to cut a rabbit and all that stuff.” And I said, you know, it was in high school. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: They said there would be blood and all. I kept crying, I said, “I want to get out.” So, I'm looking around at all that stuff, I wonder if there’s something I could do which is a good combination: do a good service, and I don’t wanna do too much math. I found the—that there is a program called City and Regional Planning. Yeah. So, I talked to people and all the stuff, and I �discovered, you know, that I could do a good service by planning good communities and job places and uh hospitals and all those things, you know, that really could provide a good service. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And, uh, and then I won’t see blood or I won’t see the math! So, what I did was that I did my graduate work at Peabody-Vanderbilt, and then I look for where should I go to—go to get the degree. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: I went to Virginia Tech. Yeah, in Virginia Tech they—I came in in 1964. Okay? And in 1964, um, you know, I got into the urban planning, city and regional planning. And one thing I want to say, in Nashville, Tennessee, the—looking at the questions, you know, how did the Americans treated me? Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: Yeah. What happened was that, you know, I was working on gas station and all, and I used to have a turban and all that stuff. And then they came on bus and go to, you know, the school or something. And couple of people in the bus started pushing me around. And uh I said, “Why you are doing that to me?” And they said, you know, “Uh, we don’t want Cubans here.” The Cuban crisis in 1963 was going on. Harshaan: Oh, so they [inaudible] Kul: I said, “I’m not Cuban! Here’s my passport, I’m from India.” They said, “Oh, you can have a passport made anytime you want to.” Harshaan: Wow. Kul: So, I went to the driver, I told him, “Would you please stop the bus so that I could get out because they’re bothering me?” Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And even though he was also an Indian in America, he said, “I can’t stop it, there’s no stop.” So, I just, you know, came out very depressed, and you know, a little bit mad about it. Harshaan: Yeah, that’s terrible. Kul: And that’s when I cut my hair first time. So that at least nobody there gonna push me around. But one was that, the other one, my name was Kul and they call me names like “Coolwinder, Side-winder,” those things (laughing). So, back to Virginia Tech. I went first, uh, first semester there uh and uh I was running out of money. Blacksburg is a very small place, there were not that many jobs. �Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: I said, “Well, gotta do something.” Uh, and also at the same time, Virginia Tech, because it was a small town, uh Blacksburg, so they were bringing the whole class to George Washington, University in Washington, so that they know city big enough for planning situation. There was the whole summer, whole class came here with professors. Harshaan: I see. Kul: So, I said I gotta find out, you know, where I could work and go to school, and it’s a city rather than rural planning. (laughs) So, what I did was that I came here in a catholic university in Washington, DC. I talked to the head of the department because that school had only night classes. Harshaan: You said this was Catholic University? Kul: Catholic University. So, I came to 1965, you know, to Catholic University. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And uh I work with Maryland National Capital Park and Planning Commission. Harshaan: I see. Kul: As a student in the city planning—planning department. Harshaan: I see. Kul: And from there, uh I went to classes, and in 1966, I graduated with a master’s degree. Harshaan: I see. Kul: In city and regional planning. And I had the job for the Planning Commission, then I worked for the consulting firm, and then I want to—I have some friends in Blacksburg, so I went back to Blacksburg um including when my girlfriend was there (both laugh). So, I went there back and worked with a consulting firm in Roanoke, Virginia. Yeah. And uh one of my old professors he was also working there, so it worked out very well for both of us, you know, at work. So, I worked at the Madon & Madon, it was, you know, a consulting firm. In regional planning and architecture and engineering. So then, uh what happened was um in 1967, I got my green card from the student card, student visa. Then ‘67 I work with the firm and once I got my green card, I said, “I got to go back to India now to visit.” After seven years. Harshaan: Yeah. �Kul: I—I went to London. Ram Prakash, my friend from Canada, he finished his degree and he was working in England. Uh, and I went to visit them, and I said, “Hey, while I’m here I might as well learn something.” I had a book under my arm that said Europe Word of the Day. Uh, so I went to Paris, back from Paris, you know, I got on a train and went through uh Germany, Austria—Germany, Switzerland, and Austria. Just touring around. And I had a green card, so you know, there was no problem there. So, from there I came back and—to uh, you know, back to Paris to book a flight from there all the way to Delhi. Harshaan: Hmm. Kul: And by the time I get there, my grandmother is already gone. She died. But everybody was there, and they were just happy there. And, you know, after me is my sister, that is your grandma, and then um my brother, and then my sister which is uh Honey’s mom, and then there was my other brother who was uh Naunihal. Okay? Over there my parents say, “Hey, he’s back.” Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: Oh no before that, when I was getting off from the plane, uh there was a German lady with two kids. That were blonde. I was trying to help them out. And everybody said, “Oh, he’s married her and has a family.” I said, “No, that’s not my wife!” (both laughing) Just I was trying to help these little kiddies. I said, “Well, you know, I’ll go back to her when I go back. No, I’m not married.” Um, and then what I did was that my father already advertised for finding a girl for me. I was very much opposed to it because I came to see you guys. And—but, you know, they wanted to do that. It’s, I mean, parents, you know, kind of thing. And then uh I said, “Well, okay.” He said, “You can’t go back if you don’t get married.” And I said, “Hey, I told those people at work I coming back by such and such day, you know, I don’t—I can’t let that expire.” Harshaan: Right. Kul: So, finally I said, “Hey, you know, let’s play a game with them.” I said, “Well, let’s see what you could find. And I’m—but condition is I’m gonna see some time and they could see me also.” And they will have some—some presentations, you know, and watching—I am introduced to them. They have that you know, Mecca return and blah, blah, blah, blah. You know? So, I saw some girl uh I didn’t want to get married. And uh some saw me, some said “yes,” other said “reject.” It’s okay! Because I was clean shaved and all that stuff, you know. And finally, there was a girl who was an ar—degree finishing up architecture. Uh, in India, one of the schools. She lived in Chandigarh. And they said, “Okay, let’s go see her.” Architecture and city planning was close. I said, “Why not?” You know, my dad, your grandpa, myself and uncle fly in from New York; we went to Chandigarh. When we went to the girl’s house and they said, “She’s on the train on her way.” And then she said, you know, “She is sick. She’s not going to be here for a few days.” So, I said, “Well, you know, okay.” Then there was another one also advertised. While we’re here, why not? You know, two blocks from there was her. So, we went to this office and that’s where your auntie Pashi’s dad’s business was. He showed me the picture, I said, “Hey, looks good though.” And then after—it was closer to the end of the day, and I said, “Is there any way we could get back to you?” And he said, “Don’t you want to see the girl? In person?” I said, “Hey, that’s my kind of man.” You �know? He had a car, so he loaded us up and took us to his house. And your auntie Prakash she was little [guarded?] also. And they let us talk to her for a little bit, you know. And at that time, we found out that one of my professors when I was in the college, and her professor, they’re the same person! So, we talked about that for the time. And all that stuff, and I kind of liked it because they said, you know, “One of our sisters is married to an engineer, uh and the other sister is married to somebody in London.” All that stuff, I said, “Hey, that look like cosmopolitan.” Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: So, I said, “Well, okay, we’ll get back to you.” And my father-in-law, Pashi’s mom—or dad, he said, “I have a meeting in Bombay.” He was in transportation and finance business. He said, “I have a meeting in Bombay, I am going there for only four day. If we hear from you, you let us know after you talk to your family, and if not, that’s totally understandable.” That was another thing that sold me, hey, that’s the kind of family I like! (Harshaan laughs) So, I came in and it was three days and fourth day was approaching. And I showed her to my mom and my sisters and everybody, you know, grandma and all. And they really liked that girl—they [the girl’s family] gave me a picture. And my father still wasn’t there (laughs). So, next day—next morning I got on the bicycle, we didn’t have a telephone at the farm. So, I went to three miles peddling bicycle to the post office, and I dialed the, uh, I dialed the telephone number for Pashi’s, you know, dad. I said, “I’m it.” (Harshaan laughs) He said, “Oh, did you talk to your parents?” I said, “Almost everybody. But not one.” Then, uh, he said, “Okay, have them contact us.” You know? So, my father came in, I told him, he was upset, all that stuff. But once I told him about the family, um he said, “Okay, let’s look into it.” And then we found out, you know, that Pashi’s uh, Pashi’s [relative] was married to someone my father knew. And also, Pashi’s cousin uh was married to another person and we— my father knew about it. So, we looked—he looked at it, “Hey, that’s a good bondage.” Because when he was in Karnal everybody knew him, and that way he knew some people. And we found that connection. Harshaan: That’s good, yeah. Kul: So, it was 17th of December, 1967. I was uh in a hurry, you know, because I got to go back to work. I said, “Okay.” Engagement was New—uh Christmas Eve. Um and wedding was New Year’s Eve. 1967. Within two weeks. Harshaan: Wow yeah. Kul: We did that. (claps hands for emphasis) And uh January of 1967, I said, “I gotta go.” They said, “Okay, you go and then you—she could stay here and all.” I said, “No. That was not part of the deal,” (Harshaan laughs) “she comes with me.” So, finally, they said, “Okay, we’ll see if she gets all the papers.” We got the passport done, I took her to the American Embassy, and at that time uh what happened was that the clerical in the front said, “No, no, we don’t have time, and blah, blah, blah.” And Pashi was with me. And then I said, “Hey, I came so far over here, can I talk to one of the, you know, seniors—your supervisors?” I said, “Okay.” There was a young guy, and uh looked pretty good, uh young. I talked to him about the, you know, situation. And �um I want to find out more about him. He said, “Oh, so how long you been here?” He says [I said], “About five, six months.” He said, “Well, you just came in, what about the family?” I said, “I just got married, I didn’t want to leave my wife, I brought her.” I said, “This is it, that’s the reason I’m here, I want to take my wife with me.” He said, “Come back tomorrow—day after tomorrow—no, come back tomorrow. You got a visa.” (Harshaan laughs) That’s how she got the visa. Harshaan: Aww, that’s wonderful. Kul: So, we came in and uh we came to London. Pashi’s sister over there and family. We spent one week with them, I was very pleased with them because good nature, you know. That was Pashi’s older sister. The other one, middle one was in Can—Canada. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And uh—no, wait at that time she was not in Canada. And so, we came in and we got settled. And um in 1967 we were in Salem, Virginia, close to Roanoke, between Roanoke and Blacksburg. And then I got a job up in Old Town Alexandria. So, we—Pashi didn’t have a driver’s license, but she knew some driving, so we bought a little Volkswagen. No clutch, change gears. So, I had a three-cylinder all of books and finer things, we didn’t have much loaded up in the car. We came to Washington. And uh this is the Washington in 1963, when I went to see the World’s Fair, I drove my Volkswagen and I got stuck in Washington, DC. Every time I go around the Washington Monument, I couldn’t go anywhere the traffic was so bad. So, I figured out, you know, what should I do? Well, there was absolutely no parking. No parking there, I knew the policeman was going to come. Policeman came right away, he said, “Can’t you read the sign?” I said, “Officer, just tell you the honest truth, I am stuck in this damn traffic. I am—I have to go to New York. Uh before it got too dark.” And uh, um, “I knew that you could help me out.” He said, “Follow me.” He put me in the right area and he got me out of the city (laughs). Harshaan: Wow. Kul: The city, at that time I say, “I hate the city, I don’t ever want to move there.” But then I went to school here, Catholic University and all that. And we loved it. Ever since, loved this place so much. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And then, you know, I—I think I found out, you know, people wanted—my brother came, uh and my parents came, then uh Auntie came, and then uh my father died and your parents came in. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: Only—no, not parents, your grandparents came in before we cremated him. Then I think, you know, your mom and Gogi came in and all that stuff. And my parents went back and brought �Bobby also. And that’s how I am, and I love it, I would never go anywhere else. This is my side of the story. Harshaan: Such a beautiful, beautiful—first, thank you so much for sharing all of that. Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: How in depth you were. Kul: Hey, look at this. [Kul holds up an old newspaper article.] Harshaan: Is that you? Can you turn it up a bit? Kul: Yeah! [Title of the article is “Visitor from India tells how Parents Choose Children’s Mates.” The article shows a picture of a younger Kul.] Harshaan: (laughs) Wow! (Kul laughs) Is this in the Punjabi newspaper or American? Kul: No, no, there was American family and they ask me what kind of food you could make. And I said, “I don’t know! Let’s try it.” So, I made something, and they put it out, “Hey, good cook, good food.” Harshaan: Wow. Kul: And then in another one [holds up another newspaper article], there were a couple of Indian families renting a house, and uh, see this is what my life was. Harshaan: That is so interesting. I love that. Kul: Yeah, and a couple of other things I want to show you. Uh let’s see. [Holds up picture of himself] This one was me when I came. Harshaan: Do you mind angling up? Just a bit. Oh wow. Kul: And then after the people tried to throw me from the bus this is what I was. [Holds up another picture of himself.] Harshaan: This was after you cut your hair? Kul: (laughs) Yeah. And that’s the way life was, buddy. And uh that’s my side of the story, any else you want to ask? Harshaan: Yeah, absolutely. I don’t wanna like uh move around too far, so if you don’t mind, I want to start from kind of like the beginning of your story and just work forward. Kul: Say it again. �Harshaan: Um, I just—I just said I kinda wanna like work from the beginning like— Kul: Okay, sure, sure. Harshaan: —don’t wanna bounce around too much. Kul: No problem. Harshaan: Um, so, I know this personally, but I just wanna ask for the camera, um what is your religious background and how were members of your religion treated in India? Um and did this play any role—any uh role in affecting your decision to uh coming to the United States? Kul: Uh, my family they were all Sikhs. With the turbans and all that stuff. I remember I was three years old my grandmother will say, “You have to wear a turban.” And I said, “Why?” She said, “You are a Sikh.” In addition to that, she wanted to have a guy in a turban when the grandfather’s brother die, [and people were] trying to be rough on my grandma. That say, “Hey, there’s a man over here.” Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: (both laugh) I was treated very well. All Sikhs had to get out of that part of Punjab. Yeah. So, I had my turban and even in India, you know, my grandmother did a part, so she even made me do some parts. I remember some parts, you know. So, that’s how I was and up until I left India I get treated very well because it is the educated family and all that stuff, you know. And the college I went to was [run by a very rich man]. And he’s the one who has the college in Lahore where I was born. And in Pakistan, he wanted to move that, but there was a clause that they say, “Your college cannot move from this place.” So, there is still a college in Lahore and it’s where I graduated. Harshaan: That is very interesting. Kul: And uh I am still, you know, still the Sikh. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: Yeah, and the only place I went to in Nashville, Tennessee couple of colleges—uh, no couple of churches. Just to tell the story when the Bengal tiger comes from. (both laugh) And I know how to ride a camel. All those things, those kinds of funny things, you know. And then I got an invitation for a dinner party with those people. (laughs) Harshaan: Mm-hm. It all works out in the end. Kul: It does, yeah. �Harshaan: That is wonderful. Um, you kind of addressed this already, but I just wanted to ask the question specifically. Kul: Sure. Harshaan: Um, so in terms of economic and political factors, what were some of the factors in India at the time that made you decide leave? If any at all. Kul: In India we were very, very good, as I said my father had a good job, and then we had land, and owned our own farm where we built a house, and we grew uh rice, wheat, all sorts of beans, and uh potatoes, tomatoes, all the vegetables, sugarcane, and you name it. That’s what we grew. And we were fairly okay. There was not any problem. And uh my youngest brother, he was born in 1950, June 1950. And uh after I came here, you know, poor thing he had um, what you call? Cancer. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And he died. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: And so that’s part of life, you know. And uh I was thinking of even getting him over here too. But, you know, fate took him earlier. But that’s part of it. So, everybody was Sikh and we were treated very well in India. When I came in [to the US] I had difficulties with the turban I told you about. But I didn’t change. In Nashville, Tennessee there was hardly any Indians, that’s why those people think I am from Cuba. But there was no gurdwara [Sikh temple], there was no Sikhs or anything. Uh, there was one doctor came in to Vanderbilt University. Uh, and I saw them walking on the street close to the Vanderbilt University, that’s where he was going to do research, and then that’s the only person I saw in Nashville, Tennessee. And uh ‘til he died in New York, he had three daughters, all doctors, they married all doctors, their kids are all doctors. And a few years ago, nine doctors in the family, then he died. His wife still lives in New York, and one daughter lives in New York, one in Philidelphia, one in San Francisco. Harshaan: Hm. Kul: And I still talk to them. Harshaan: Hm. That’s very sweet. Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: That’s cool. Um, let me see. Um, I guess you kind of touched on this a little bit as well, but what were your first thoughts when you first came to New York and to Nashville? Kul: Yeah. �Harshaan: Anything, even like when you stayed at the motel. What were your first initial thoughts about the US? Kul: Uh, UN? Harshaan: The—the United States. Kul: Oh, United States. I was so much excited to come not even knowing what United States is all about, other than conversation with Ram Parkash. You know, Canada and United States was same. Uh, and uh in my excitement, I was very much pleased that I was there. I did not know anybody when I came to Nashville, Tennessee. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: I did not have anybody that I communicated those things, you know. I took it, it was people—I did speak some English, but not the same kind of English they were speaking. Nobody was prejudiced against me, you know, they were understanding people. And in those days what they used to do is that a foreign student, a family will take those in to make them comfortable, get adjusted. I found a family in Nashville, Tennessee. Harshaan: Oh, really? Kul: And then when I came to Blacksburg, I found another family, which adopted me for three weeks. Harshaan: Wow. Kul: Yeah. And in our house, these Aztec paintings— Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: Well, that’s the person that you know that was my family. She was a painter. And I enjoyed it. And when I came into Washington, by that time I grew out of the whole thing and I was okay. So, I—I like to—the more I got closer to people [claps hands for emphasis], the more I loved, you know, USA. Harshaan: Of course. Kul: And I enjoyed every moment, nobody was uh, you know, trying to take advantage of me other than two drunk people in the bus. Harshaan: Hm. �Kul: So, that was—and I forgave them. I said, “Well, that’s big deal.” And they don’t know it. And, you know, when I have in my hand, passport says Indian and turban, they—those people, they don’t wear turbans. (laughing) Harshaan: Yeah. It’s not important to them. Kul: But everybody treated me very well. Harshaan: That’s good. Kul: I made some good friends. I friend—I met some people in my hard times, other than financially, they helped me out. Yeah, and uh I, you know, hey, I saw—I played around very much with people and had a good time. I had a couple girlfriends there and here, that was okay too. So, that—that’s my, you know, I—I from that time onward even until today, this is where I want to be. And this is where I want to die too. Harshaan: That is so beautiful. Kul: If and when the day comes. Harshaan: Of course. Kul: As a matter of fact, I was telling your auntie, “I think I’m ready to donate my organs to your hospital.” (laughs) So, that we don’t have to go to funeral home. Harshaan: Hm. That’s brave of you. Kul: Yeah? That’s how what I believe. That’s what I want to do. Harshaan: To give back? Kul: Yes. Harshaan: I’ve always seen that as your character. That is so awesome. Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: That is really cool. Um— Kul: Wait, you say “cool,” that’s me! (both laugh) I didn’t officially change my name. But we went to the, you know, citizens and said, “What’s your name?” And I said, “Kul Mandar in parenthesis ‘cool.’” And on the passport, it says “Kul Sandu.” �Harshaan: Your passport says, “Kul Sandu?” Kul: And they said, “Yeah we know that you’re cool, but what is your name?” And I said, “It’s K-U-L.” (both laugh) And then they said, “Kul.” And I said, “I told you that!” (both laugh) Harshaan: Yeah, that is funny. So, you mentioned earlier that you actually stayed with a family in the United States, um was that part of the admissions process to the university or was that something separate thing you decided to do? Kul: In Nashville, Tennessee I decided it. Harshaan: You did? Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: How did the university accommodate other people who were coming from different countries? Kul: Very well, very well. Harshaan: That’s good. Kul: Very well. Harshaan: That’s good. Kul: As a matter of fact, you know, uh wherever I went, being different, the American students as well as the faculty, they wanted to get close enough to find out more about you. And work with you. And toward the end hours every time the conversation, “Anything we could do, we’ll be there for you.” And that’s what gave me the strength to continue. Harshaan: That is huge yeah. Kul: And that’s what, you know, up until now and onwards, it’s a give and take. Because I had to give—I was giving something and they saw it and appreciate it. I saw something in them, I said, “This is worth every bit of where I want to be.” Harshaan: Absolutely. That is so—that is really big development, so I am glad you experienced that. Um, let’s see, so you already mentioned that you came by yourself, you mentioned how people treated you, you mentioned you came to New York. Uh, you did touch on this a little bit, but um what exactly was your first job when you came into Nashville? Was it the gas station? �Kul: Uh, I worked at a gas station. Then I was working in a uh—some sort of a organization, they have all sorts of books and they, you know, send out the materials to other people. Uh, this was all—you know, I went to give a talk to a church, I had mentioned it to you. And then, they said, “What do you do?” I said, “I don’t have any work here, but I’m trying to go to school, and I’m gonna do this thing, you know.” And they helped me get a job. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: You know, with the publication. I think it was some sort of religious company or something. But all we were doing is putting things into the envelope and, you know, doing that stuff. And also, some people, they whenever they had a party or something, as a student, they— they just help me out. “Why don’t you come join the party? Even though you may have to wash dishes, but still, you see, we party too.” That’s what we did! Harshaan: Wonderful! That’s really good. Also, just towards the college experience too, that you did that. Kul: Yeah. Harshaan: That’s wonderful. Um so, tell me about the people. I know you said you made a lot of friends; um I’m just wondering if you could elaborate more. Tell me about the people you met here and how your relationships are with them now. Kul: Well, the family—there were two families in Nashville, Tennessee I was very close to. Uh, one, the George’s family. Uh, George family. They didn’t have any kids and while I was there, they adopted a kid. I learned everything, you know, to play with the little kiddies. I wanted to do it because, you know, and then I even learn how to uh change diapers and, you know, that’s a good thing. And that’s—they became very close to me. Harshaan: Mm-hm. Kul: Up, from Nashville, Tennessee, when I graduated from Catholic University, they came for my graduation. Harshaan: Wow! Kul: And all that stuff. Unfortunately, their daughter—they adopted the daughter, she lives in Florida, she has a drug problem. And they had a son who was born to them who is in uh I think Chicago or somewhere. And uh, but uh they both died. And when I came to Blacksburg, there was a family called Pienkowskis. Jody Pienkowski, wife, she was a master’s degree from University of Wisconsin in medicine. Her husband got a PhD from the same university in et—in uh etymology. And he was a professor in another department in Blacksburg. In Virginia Tech. �And she was the artist who was painting and all. And they—they, up until now, I love them, they love me. And I took your [Kul’s wife and kids] to their house, I took them a few times. And they were invited for [Kul’s children’s] wedding. But they said that they were—they got a little too old. And so, they don’t travel anywhere. They didn’t have any kids of their own, so they adopted three kids, two boys and a girl. On the daughter’s wedding, we were there in Asheville, North Carolina. Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: So, we are still very close. And as a matter of fact, uh I’m planning to take [Kul’s grandkids] to spend a weekend over there with them. Harshaan: Oh, that’s wonderful! Kul: Yeah. And they still, as a matter of fact, when Yasmine [Kul’s child] was born, I ask uh, you know, the professor’s name was Bob, Robert. And wife’s name was Jody, Jody Pienkowski. I told them, “Hey, I’m expecting a daughter, uh could you come here,” he had a good camera,” I said, “Could you come to Washington to take some pictures?” They both drove down from Blacksburg here, and when Yasmine was born, they took all the pictures. Harshaan: Oh wow. Kul: Yeah, they were that close. And still they are. Harshaan: Yeah, especially from that long ago too. Kul: I know, I know. Harshaan: 50 years now? That’s incredible. Kul: I know, I know! (laughing) Harshaan: That is wonderful though. Um, this question's a little bit subjective, but I’m just curious to hear what you have to say. Um, in the time that you spent from when you came here, so like the seven-year period from when you came here to when you went back to India, what would you say your—some of your greatest successes were? Kul: Greatest what? Harshaan: Successes. Kul: Uh to become a citizen. Uh getting green card. �Harshaan: Okay. Kul: That’s what was, you know, because that was my idea, that was my goal that I successfully do those things. Efficiencies of money, the efficiency of I did not know anybody, but my goal stayed there. I want to be here. I want to plant myself. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: Something like a tree that bears fruit that people enjoy in life. Harshaan: That’s really awesome. Kul: That’s the kind of philosophy I kept in mind and kept working on it. There was a fall, there was a crash, there was a flood. The tree lasted, bared fruit. You don’t see anybody, but this is my thinking, that that’s what I could do it. And that’s why also meeting that kind of people, I selected the field which I wanted to service. Have good living for people in residential communities. And good services by police and fire departments and the hospitals and all those things. And—other than politics (both laugh). I—I felt that I accomplished what I wanted to do. Harshaan: Absolutely. Kul: And I’m very happy. Even, for example, you know after I retired from Fairfax County, that’s where I was, and if anybody calls me and asks for advice, anything to do with zoning and planning. That’s what I want to do. Harshaan: That’s really cool just to hear. (Kul laughs) Um so, on the other side of that, during that period when you moved here to the US to when you went back to India, what would you say are some of the greatest hardships you faced? Kul: In India or here? Harshaan: In the US. Kul: Oh, in the US. Well, uh not having money. I had to find adjustments. I gave lectures [Kul’s video freezes] and did favors for families. I met a person who was an artist and when I was telling those stories, she said, you know okay—I said, “I don’t have much money to do this, this, this.” And then she said, “Okay, would you like to be make some money for whatever I tell you to?” I said, “You say it, and I’ll see what I could do.” She said, “We—I’m an artist and we have art school, we always look for models.” I said, “Huh?” So, I did some modeling. Harshaan: Oh wow. �Kul: And uh only thing was, some—one time they said, “Do you mind taking your clothes off?” You know, they want to do that kind of painting. I said, “No, my underwear is going to stay with me.” And they painted from my belly button up there. And uh I made money from there. When there were parties, I went to parties, washed the dishes, I would pick up all those things. And those things, they really helped me. And again, I never felt, you know, as I’m an educated person I threw away my dignity. No, I’m a human being. And if my hands were dirty, I could wash; if my mind was dirty, I could take a step back and think, wake up, we don’t have very many choices. Harshaan: That’s true, that’s very true. Kul: That’s how I worked it out. Harshaan: That is huge, that’s awesome and very difficult to do all in all. Um so, I know that you said that you brought [your wife] over here when you got married on New Year’s in 1968. Um, I’m just curious, what was that transition like for you and how were you able to adjust from kind of like working to being married and starting a family here? Kul: Yeah. Well, I think, you know, again, I grew up and I knew the system, the way husband and wife are. Right? And I knew the culture here, that people date and then fall in love. In India, they marry and then what should they do, you know? The parents say that. I went with my own philosophy and I practiced it and I’m happy with it. You could get married if you want to, continue good life, fall in love later on. That’s what I did. And this young lady, she’s a Libra and that means that you achieve balance. But it’s give and take. Harshaan: Of course, of course. Kul: And if you don’t give your heart to somebody, how do you expect to get a heart back? That’s love! Harshaan: That’s true. Kul: Exactly! Take any movie, they sing songs about, you know, heart and all that (both laugh). The other day, I was thinking, somebody was saying, you know, “Well, how does the heart make love to each other?” The heart does not have wings to fly to you, the heart matches to your heart even though they don’t talk, but if they click, that’s what life is all about. Harshaan: That is very true. What good wisdom. (Kul laughs) Um, final question: so, part of the reason, you know this, part of the reason my parents are both here is because you actually sponsored them. Um, so I’m just curious, what was the process of sponsoring other people, how is that process like? �Kul: Process in those days, the earlier days, it was very simple. One of the simplest things I’m ever gonna tell you. 1976 my parents came, okay? And they came on a visitor visa, which it was to expire in three months. When the third month came in, we knew that either they do some decision, which I’m going to ask them, or they do their, you know, money, all that stuff. So, I asked my parents, my mother was very outgoing, she had two years college in 1936, my father had a BS in agriculture, right? And my mother, even when she was coming first time here, she wanted to eat American food and not Indian food and my father, “Oh, big deal.” And my mother liked it very much. And especially Yasmine was a little baby at that time and she was very attached. This is the beauty in a female person, because they keep a kid in tummy for nine months, they know how to connect over the years. The, again, the male members of our culture said, “Ah, big deal. Fine. You do this thing and I’ll do this thing.” And that’s what I love, that kind of philosophy. And uh it’s uh, when we were married, we used to get letters from our home, our parents, from my father especially—I’m going to go back to that question you asked also. Is that “Do you have any babies yet?” And we said, “No.” Some other people came to our house from India and they said, “Maybe you should get married again, a man may think that your wife can’t have a baby.” And finally, I always wanted girls based on what I was saying, I like girls whether it’s a mom, whether it’s a sister, whether it’s a niece, or whatever. Or a girlfriend, I like women very much. And I said, “God,” we were expecting first baby, I said, “please God, I want a girl.” I wrote thirty-one names, only girls names. And your auntie agreed with me. We had Yasmine. We then—the second one, we said one is enough, but I said, if this girl needs some help and her husband doesn’t work with her, where is she going to go? To the blood relation. So, then we had [another daughter]. Going back to your question again. Um, repeat the question again. Harshaan: So, the question was that I know you sponsored a lot of people for citizenship in the United States, I’m asking what the process was like and um what you thought of it. Kul: Well, that I said I love people, especially, you know, so—and you were asking about also how was the system. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And when my parents’ third month came in, and I asked my parents—my mother liked it here, you know, as I said earlier. She said, “We’d like to stay.” We applied for it, within two weeks I got them a green card. Harshaan: That’s really quick, I guess when you have— Kul: The system was so easy. But also, they looked at it, I’m a stable person and all that stuff, and we are established, we are citizens, we love it, we adopted the country, and that’s what happened. But then the process went on and on, more people started abusing the system and �that’s why they became harder and harder. In today’s time, you know, if you are Cuba or Mexico or you’re face looks different, you can’t even come. So, it’s very—it was easy. Harshaan: That’s good, that’s good. Um, so this is the final question I have for you, and again, if you don’t want to answer this it’s totally fine, but I’m just curious, because in a historical sense, I know with my parents they came after the attack on the Golden Temple in 1984. Um and as you know, that caused a lot of pretty difficult relations among Sikhs in India where some would just get gunned down in the prison, some would be unlawfully arrested, and a lot of Sikhs feared for their life and turned to terrorist organizations. I’m just curious, did you know of anyone or did that even impact you at all in terms of sponsoring people, in terms of going to India, in terms of other people you knew in India? And if so, how did you react and what did you do in response to that? Kul: Well, I—What I thought was, when I came in, I had hardships. Again, financial and, you know, not knowing anybody. With determination, I’m here. Opportunities are great, opportunities are lesser and lesser every day in India. I start sponsoring. After my parents decided to come then I sponsored—my brother was already sponsored and he was here. Uh from that time onward, [I helped other family]. Then I went on, whoever want to. I counted it one time, who I had gotten the papers done plus they applied and got some of their brothers and sisters: 53 people. Harshaan: Wow. Kul: 53 people. And uh I started it, I started that, you know. Harshaan: All because you were the one who wanted to kind of— Kul: Exactly, that’s what I wanted to do because I believed in it. I cared for them, and not only that, I cared for anybody who could get a good opportunity this country provides for. Why not? Harshaan: Especially after all the hardships that Sikhs— Kul: Exactly. Because we learn through their lesson what really happened. And I was opportunity, you know, look at my opportunity. When I was in India, you know, politicians and all that stuff, and when I was here, Kennedy was visiting Vanderbilt and Peabody College. And I was sitting, you know, all the students were sitting there and he’s sitting in a car and the car is moving in front of us. I raised my hand, “Mr. President, I want to shake hands with you.” You know, like this, I was a student, I had a turban at the time. He tapped on the driver’s shoulder— those are the good times—and the car stopped, and they asked me—ordered me to the car, and I shook hands with him. Harshaan: Oh wow. �Kul: And I felt so good. I know that he was also a great person. And even this thing, hey, me $7.20 in my pocket, came in all that stuff, look what I can do. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: That is the beautiful part of this world. Harshaan: Yeah. Kul: And I’m not saying the other countries are not that good. Mankind, when they start thinking, what is good for human beings. For safety, welfare, and continuity, and togetherness, that’s what really is the most important part. And you don’t get that if you don’t love life you are living. Harshaan: That is very true. Um, that is all the questions I have written. But before I end the recording is there anything that you’d like to add in terms of your own experience or what you’ve noticed from others or anything else you’d like to comment on? Kul: Well, I feel—I feel good for change that help me with the help of God. I believe in it too. My parents, my grandmother, my Mama Ji, and others, and other people must’ve loved me. I came here, people I never knew, they loved me. My love made me another form of person. I cherish it, I will cherish it, I will promote it, anybody who get the opportunity to be something that, not only where they live or which country and all that, but whatever they want to do, wherever they want to do, come with a open heart, open mind, expand your hands, give your heart to everybody. Whether you speak one word or not of “I love you,” it is already injected in that person. As long as we do this to everybody, this is life I wish for everybody. I feel so happy, all the people I love, they’re here. Though they’re not here, I love humankind, humanbeings. And I will always wish all of you the best, safest, and peaceful life. That’s all I—I don’t know. Let me get my napkin. Oh gosh (crying). Harshaan: Thank you so much for sharing your entire story though. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2020 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Harshaan Grewal Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Kul Sandhu Location The location of the interview Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MP3, MP4, docx, png Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Kul Sandhu Description An account of the resource <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4bTG--Pj3s">Use this link to view the video of the interview.</a> <br /><br />This interview between Harshaan Grewal and Kul Sandhu discusses Kul’s immigration from India to the US, as well as Kul’s family, marriage, school, and philosophies of life. Kul talks about political and religious conflict he and his family experienced in India. Kul also speaks about convincing his family to let him move to the US, the way in which his grandmother advocated for him to move, as well as eventually sponsoring his family to become US citizens themselves. <br /><br />This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2020). This course was led by Professor Robert Chiles of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Harshaan Grewal Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3, MP4, png Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History education friendship Green Card India marriage Punjab Sikh sponsor https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/0ae15e5df28d6b935f55588330e15091.jpg?Expires=1779926400&Signature=Ex9gLae26hLqEEOXBoiwKADDF7HVR8MRDNYbuWh7y3sABHMPv%7EzuE7f4FOWRn1lKKEGcMRRL%7EjrzGO2grbuwhXqZ72W3qSb0AQ8E7QbEcSz-3OI5wy5NS%7ENitt0FHy0v9WMGXwqa6CwS4LFiUI8lHKYInIOS2r%7EGLZXuo-KBgeWglkSM4ieIe6Mq28l%7EhdLVC-n5ZGJtj8QkYUr5fViPYH6kLkKMLQPQydp%7EnpeWJsbT7yyU-3ktmEvlw1WurtjKnocDVyab6pxFh2glkfHFqSEU46tEtYCWOR3rql6KrFFnRZQyS6y4leSo3hVtX0wy232OnNamXGiaYu3paUXcwA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM e44943da4ee18bcfadeab7b3c4253948 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ed8b8f1871bb2b8942f6ce1c4f4a9eb7.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=FjkSb6i6asUaTHGO64MO2Rt%7EywcYKk4KnYSvmuKELdTC5PX%7E5ldjNHMLMSmkaRrNqjRRL0Cz%7ER%7EAqh%7EF8C5cMpq98ULxRYwkqPbwReHLFr6xPvmZC1hvIMXk6Ap4ydSKW09YlmpTsg7SIRXy6RAbPnvZPVXxOJbrgqR9Sl5A5oFlP6kVlnnQA6LowYdkrGOdaZda4yFdJc0k5T9aixaTT1Zvj2p4LuBLHyystqu7JuKFj8Z2%7EH8NrgID%7EX3HTDDx5ZYIRfLzjQsZ0OhkGtYMLr-ySHJqlb5%7EmlKVhwfrWOsbwFvbqeV6pMMz2ew7uJiMeXTMVCG-o2BMq7sdvroBmw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 910a0819959483b8929748809c413568 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/415633ab98239c1f294813327fec086a.mp3?Expires=1779926400&Signature=DozzT4af4al9Nj92QjqYDsj0iUGVayocV%7E6EVW%7EG5Cbl4jvtIa30IULltiR8nijsyK9XyY8tMzzdKNZw6a%7EElUhQ9Q4wlfnGQfZIhEM8XMZWAhtZFeZraHtvCa2k6tnBtiF3JCfbs-6dJ%7EwW-1E0rMpzjftQYuZbrT1y3jClaWm-KznnFzHSPvBuyl8Yqc4k3SbaSqSTyNBNU9%7Ep5RT1wp0EWmPnp61njiESOxs6O2cAq89bRLA7FIGknMZIiStBRkm%7EqIn7wcob3oqrZK6vf7VpFpR1MmvDCOr2R3QOPDtB%7EGWkl0VzT31k2KeBa30FoEFbvW0c1dZ7T8lHpOJZAg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 0ae0d4013359f97f105a26a3f7bcfd03 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2018 Interviews Description An account of the resource These interviews were conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park courses THET489V (Spring 2018) and HIST428M (Spring 2018). THET489V was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, HIST428M was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities. Both courses were sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Andrew O'Connor Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Philippe Dessauw Location The location of the interview Gaithersburg, Maryland Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Philippe Dessauw Description An account of the resource This interview of Philippe Dessauw, a French immigrant to the United States, explores various topics including family, stereotypes, friendships, and employment. Philippe discusses cultural differences between France and the U.S., his work as a software engineer, and the use of technology to retain relationships with family and friends. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course THET489V (Spring 2018). This course was led by Professor Esther Lee of the Theater Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Andrew O'Connor Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 29, 2018 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3 Language A language of the resource English Communication community cultural differences culture education employment Europe family food France friendship higher education language return migration science stereotypes technology television traditions visa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6d565b93ddc79f4ed200b5207692c224.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=Uev5vQCCsjTp0di6F-ChTpnBYInu2PmqHxUtEBUw4Xa9t7UF7yNxI%7ESafOVZq96Gzius93a7tT8zPbEcTQLxPbane9L0snZVfnzlW3ujIrw-WK33EmzMWtU3PMRFGH0GmR4YjxbyJae5RwMcz0KMtWiX0uSckwUB-s9QkzWhinSTU3EHeMP4CVtK7-txgkxtufPSQhrUvoPhzhGJu-gtrTOxVKOXcSOKuCDjjmnqHBQGYxJpbopW8qIZXQzsb9sMeZyjm2GecRbeRG5IVgzgjCTffMmUr%7EVZaGzhGvRwPQ2oJn%7E-oNPkx2L3fs9sHhIClWBDud6HxcL798Njw%7E0kxA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM c068e01b8e12a515ec9b8480379fbe25 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b746334bd77a089774fbfcc38c98be24.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=gdE2hwNJ7FU5OaDkS6h7CrvGzmU6Oan65o2cYN1JuOX9ree94hcLZgAyDXHSwZyR0OHRatmTncjmgx5sS1z4y7nlVpeiEmXk%7EZE0PO0XC7V2bD4NrIl8sAtKYprs%7EZkoVksoHfpLHyNN-827MXUdGTJ5fhu4nou4iH5QcfToKB9d0BSO%7EGvVILxWYeoizNqSGoYmJ-0Hr46aHZh-P0wHyOxAmWlXWQmTIkrbZIbB3r1lAh7BiW0vN3VYaZxkIND803YdePsWfdAYZhzKkoe54-zL0HIVhjeyJ4mg8P8EEpDgcl3KIvAJqXwwPlc20sLi1YEYy4Ex5CmK%7Ef2nFLhhKg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 982020cd1169e7ccf24e6dd71ce60855 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/220e3817d89270443ca8769105be2e90.mp3?Expires=1779926400&Signature=Uli8-EkpBSbibaCJYKSsY1vJ7W5v2fdVG72N5KP5X---O-WZCkp8R6nuj-7EYR2lp9dSdsyh93eBYL2pMUu4%7Ej-iBwUAZdhk6E40tu4zjkXdyaMH3zlKrMDxg4wyok6euL0rrQ2EMH8Db8fAfs8cSF6dWs0-PlmKCh-qYssBuQVLJCdkFoTSyxT7xWeY7dYO-ZVsCKQ0CizNNmzff3Xpiz5nuExE5LdEjm1fu5cC2ad-TKD7OT9Ho91rQj%7EeQbABZxDI587pYzzqXCeAIUeNv3i6QUGNyZ5vESHpKahI-hHGcug6HWqPau-%7E4Cq8k8cYZZrni81T6VPDOu2%7EDCfB6Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 936a140631916324f6c0a1617349d221 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2017 Interviews Description An account of the resource These interviews were conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park courses THET428I (Spring 2017) and HIST428M (Spring 2017). THET428I was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, HIST428M was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities. Both courses were sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Nicole Kerr Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Anabel Teixeira Location The location of the interview Washington, D.C. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Anabel Teixeira Description An account of the resource This interview between Nicole Kerr and Anabel Teixeira explores Teixeira's experiences as an immigrant to the United States from Brazil. The majority of oral history interviews focus on the experiences of immigrants who choose to become citizens of the United States. This interview follows an alternate route; it examines the effects of automatic acquisition of citizenship, specifically on the experience of a 21-year-old Brazilian immigrant named Anabel Teixeira. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST428M: "Oral History of Immigration" (Spring 2017). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the History Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nicole Kerr Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 4, 2017 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3, PNG Language A language of the resource English birthright citizenship Brazil Catholicism childhood migration Citizenship colonialism community Corruption culture Diversity Donald Trump driving economy education ethnicity exchange student family food friendship higher education identity language Opportunity politics prejudice race religion safety South America Transportation travel US politics visa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/08e6e72cd2f66bdbd79979098a5cbe19.png?Expires=1779926400&Signature=YP7pvLAxRJhSKGfvosMwxcYK9G7iWXLYb-TSAouvJKYxGGUvT10jNRdprWUSwS6w0ipIds0uGr-LI-D%7ErtlLuIL6Rv05mHaR%7Eu7y7hQbDWrGsIAG8nZDnUqw-lSq6a6uM7qy7YUaKWjEaVW6w1mHRNgkGfwr0w%7EzybqPqixPBZCFVf34RYbsHOdYgEeLGp4kREIxmE1UX4VElwwXU5K3zprrMbJ2tUKoFS6hPD6sSGUS2uY4LCu8S5sYZviAXnojdvJfNov8cg75UlRAGlbc4ykbN5H8Jy73Wgh2vvm1Hofg9umtJC9HKnlDTZ65jMRWTEMo5XaWi2WixJoFfumJ8Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM cbc24005c8eca61f08a2344fbff9e121 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/fbff887a07ce62022cdc1b2ae1ef80d7.mp3?Expires=1779926400&Signature=tyXPeBS7RkvS9xCg6v4drcr9MiT56xttcuFCwzBSn07idPXWAyjsy%7EehbTt07p67gB5yb29EHn1j02%7ErvPFy0n5JTH5zm37YoPvJpnGQ2iFZuh8mNqqoqNbrQ2NMOuKa1OgB5VZRCymL1gxshKKrPcBUmnolK-Q%7EEKGJDwqqnlzuqVFNW8aV%7EmHR9pK7ZvUO5zBLKuJx2sCgaHujB-bR9hL7%7Eqs43CwZ1n-cX1U2zmTwk%7E-Gyf9arjFH0%7E8OBUNZYxk-wo9o5l7y3Pg4QL-v63InY3NI207AOc%7EMnpP-Q62%7E-Kz9wVmr-hkGLL2stfsf91QtolTLIT5n8Z4lSBvYDA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 3ffa7735ba0c0607e7ff6bffdb40515e https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/1bbb2a43af4880862b4e709b2a92ca4a.pdf?Expires=1779926400&Signature=hQjoxPjKGMi6a02d%7EYCE3wkq1DDRbEMbyrxOxWtXtIUy48-6EdlS7CDgPys5PMxuam9LjBKUstK1UvXkD3rVXfO1muFYCx6eovyxJfNVM4XywruL2M5V6R63sRTnu2%7Eo6cYwwliFsDldePSQcDiLe-H9PsUSSliJgOafcT5h07SmXV77OLepIl4wbiwtVDZHG4FyO0ikK8-k8LDFBVJX1Ax8EtIheVBfLaoIBbUpCaerR9pGUHQEHlcuyqBd21hrE5R6FVGzTRgsOHJj08-QD4EwY1D8RDimw%7EawG5Som3wYUFY8pPZ%7Ep1qvINPMcyJuszc9p4WMyLYYXuKaNgZ9dQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 8cdbc8e41b61c34e46b1763c894983ca Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2017 Interviews Description An account of the resource These interviews were conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park courses THET428I (Spring 2017) and HIST428M (Spring 2017). THET428I was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, HIST428M was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities. Both courses were sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Erin Durham Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Murali Location The location of the interview Bethesda, MD Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Murali Description An account of the resource This interview between Erin Durham and Murali (pseudonym) explores Murali's experiences as an immigrant to the United States from Sri Lanka. This oral history documents the experiences of Murali (pseudonym), a Sri Lankan Tamil, who sought asylum in the United States in 2001. Murali recounts his experiences of growing up in Colombo, Sri Lanka, during the civil war, and experiencing bomb threats on a weekly basis. He discusses his experience traveling to Miami and applying for asylum. Murali describes the discrimination and challenges he faced after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and the six-year legal process of gaining permanent residency in the United States. Murali discusses the Sri Lankan conflict, Tamil and Sinhalese identities, the role of religion in his life, his thoughts about receiving American citizenship, and his experience volunteering in Sri Lanka in 2011. Murali’s interview touches on themes of ethnic identity, and the intrinsic worth of every individual. He emphasizes the importance of not labeling or isolating refugees, but giving them the respect deserved by every human being. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST428M: "Oral History of Immigration" (Spring 2017). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the History Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Erin Durham Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 5, 2017 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2017 Interviews Description An account of the resource These interviews were conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park courses THET428I (Spring 2017) and HIST428M (Spring 2017). THET428I was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, HIST428M was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities. Both courses were sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Nina Parekh Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Seema Parekh Location The location of the interview Ellicott City, MD Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3, JPG Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Seema Parekh Description An account of the resource This interview between Nina Parekh and Seema Parekh explores Parekh's experiences as an immigrant to the United States from India. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course THET428I (Spring 2017). This course was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nina Parekh Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 26, 2017 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource M4A, PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History assimilation child rearing Communication community culture employment family friendship higher education immigration process India language marriage motherhood South Asia visa weather