1 10 31 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/8860bfdf40a3dcbd242624dd871943c5.jpg?Expires=1779321600&Signature=T5XbqvELme6uMmiDeo1kYp9MoNkHnzu9kspPdPeYbsAj4ZpJYJORRWU8cG4UxyqJq1gRGdLlof8DPWLzW8ElPsb45qFfILQNqgHcFAew8zBjBbTBLgxxS1N1wztqqcdr40FkKxswOeXIKrWfb2GnvxtNU0MO4-HE-cYigAepdnjU7PAKIR1wqHu6BQIhrFXacShh6byhf%7E0HmT9zuwQaTCWs8-Lp0A0jQyuFDzwb2Tkkj0hHUsowVcrXXoIoI5kPHRWwQg%7Ebeb31qKFzOY5p-dzH3rqkj9tbWMakkwUfNRsjqprADXaLVqDtNq9nESrH-ugRv8LCR2rptYYLkiIQ3w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 719670027456c01db1ccd537bb8f92f3 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/004a93c62ba9027ef955ae51c9e1df8d.jpg?Expires=1779321600&Signature=tBLD-M1SNjFHQGhPT7vYEe6pkSezXaCywIiWVfkNZiJouj-J9Ggum8WAfvfE75WE9ozJQLJfqMd%7ElClvFTSXeIuffOasfMbBbU47IBqGyxh9gKTFGOxtlfqo%7E2cAM9BVGWH3QPiH9yxoR7jNk93iFaMeARX1XCgfmb2CbwJ5KrqSO669%7EnRMlGyEfhf9MP4ebijFahgRU%7EtAwsZChDfBKGAYzSSFTn9uLgGjEIAkbpPZRhnxyNaOYxEsjcdDEXBYln0wRe%7ESAECkrvVyC-Fmp6qY0QX3VQrEtoUnFSIb-Mw7xfEhbIl1OcCuwbCn-XT2FaLe1oPrUOpXk8-EZuA1DA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM c417289066f31be5e68fe4e1d02a374e https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/3c6d9d59ae5dfe3df35ca11b971d67a5.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=bnn7OKvOyxl8ZZN%7ESOicv85yNKEF8ALsYTFsqGoXtPiNJMGvsAsH7DBSjP64wTwfAenyp8QF9ElO3SgoDkcKwjMxTUt-ueR2Oz%7Ek2%7EZS516ch7G72h4vhC33ESReRJGjBvDct48ciB8rigwoc7d9lJ9lXlj%7ETnKHyUEge9AZSwGl81s%7E%7EOONZ2rlH9bvcwu7lYcKDs2suVjDw-sf2j49Wyi0AN1vV7pjoDE%7E5DAU3fW7iRfmh2jIULnlx6JQdKnNURaCEpYaRW%7Eo3KtoPP1a5TO1Dx3TZ9QiqRz0moqs-36xbSXx%7ESjFcCeCuD88Fq7w24oNZCmaqrZ3C7q5SYVqQQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 584262c01dc99b9d24cf6c2cc1430ec3 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/e79c86aaa6e6f885dd6307f2fc0ff428.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=qbae2NRVmNYLuWCQQV5FGq2niiZSkWvq%7EM%7E4cqVpcIDEg135585XKNAcuZKPVu469OP%7EqSWDC9I%7EMVUTPDwDM4xvJG%7EJQ3W%7EhJSi74BGDCszVbBbZULhCktZDSNZdK3tmFlVbDqR7FX2rS-gu55P9eiph%7EV2%7ECBYqr1OQmm899zd5TEEfBZEbkDUcuhA1aA7Gt83R845Cbxj3zl6Mdqc-SB5bhwGw4IVKwCFS8oIVdXYn5D3ZEIFVjW3Fz4fd1avBjDYZX6yzRIwZZCqWdBNTdHzm3B3Ly%7EUy-Xe7Dz-0%7EZeVFkr2PsC2FDSxhQs-WG86E4WNOHVwHcwoPJ%7ENOhAtg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 38665f0499689bf21955719f49d14101 PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland IMMR – Spring 2024 Instructor: Dr. Colleen Woods Interviewer’s Name: Kaitlyn Kim Interviewee’s Name: Victoria Truong Interviewee’s Country of Origin: Vietnam Interviewee’s Current Residence: Maryland, USA Date of Interview: April 5, 2024 Place of Interview: Maryland, USA Introduction: This interview between Victoria Truong and Kaitlyn Kim explore Truong’s personal experiences and perspectives on immigration, highlighting the adversity of leaving a communist country in search of a better life. Truong discussed her experiences as a Vietnamese refugee in the US throughout her childhood, young adulthood, and adult life. She shares stories about her family dynamics and her difficult upbringing due to her socioeconomic status. Her strong belief in freedom and opportunity explains her appreciativeness for America, and throughout the interview Truong reiterates how she is grateful for where she is today, despite all the hardships she has faced. Keywords: Vietnam, refugee, freedom, escape, fate, opportunity, family reunification, communism, Asia, language, parents Kaitlyn: Okay, it's starting to record can you state your — I'm starting, are you ready? Can you state your name and today's date? Victoria: My name is Victoria Truong. Today's date is April 5, 2024. Kaitlyn: Okay um. First question is, where did you immigrate from and how old were you? Victoria: I came from Vietnam. Um I was at age — hold on. Um age eight. Wait, I left the country at age seven. Kaitlyn: Okay. So you left at seven? Did you come here when you were eight? Victoria: To the US, 1981. Kaitlyn: Okay, and well, since you immigrated at a young age, can you tell me a little bit about growing up in Vietnam? �Victoria: My father had left or escaped it to America, in 1979? I was home with my mom at that time, um — with my two siblings, and um well, actually three, but my sister lives with my grandma. And then my mom had me and my two younger brothers. Kaitlyn: Okay, so you had siblings, do you remember like, if you guys did anything together, or your brothers, or like did you get to see your sister? Victoria: Um, no, because at the time my dad was in the – left the country for a better life, or to give us a better life, in America. And my mom raised us on her own for the time that my dad is gone. And we still um we kind of had an okay life because we were not too poor. But um, the country is communist. So everyone always want to leave the country. But I got to go to school and my brother and my two brother was younger, they didn't get to go to school. So I was probably in, like, kindergarten, back in Vietnam. Kaitlyn: Did your older sister get to go to school? Or was she older younger? Victoria: My sister was older but she was living with my grandma because she's mentally, uh epilepsy. So my grandma took care of her. My dad's mom took care of her. Kaitlyn: You also said that your dad escaped? What did you mean by that? Or can you talk a little bit more about that? Victoria: Okay. Um I said escape because you are not allowed to leave the country, at that time, because the country is communist. And if they find out you left the country um or catch you, you can get um jail time or even killed, in jail. So from what I know, from what my mom said was he left the country so that he can find a better place for us, or have more freedom so then he can sponsor us or help us get over. But at that time you were not allowed to sponsor straight from Vietnam. You either have to leave the country illegally, or um like to another country. Yeah. But we left the country, um after my dad was in the US, trying to get us over to the US. But you have to go through a lot of stages for that. For freedom. Kaitlyn: And I know you said that he left first. And I know you were young. How did you feel when he left? Victoria: I mean sad because I didn't have a dad. But I was still young, so I still have my mom. And my mom always tell me that we gonna be together soon. So I always think that I'm going to get to see my dad sooner or later, because at that time, they don't tell you — I'm telling you escape but at that time I doesn't know it’s an escape. I doesn't know that it's illegal. My mom always say my dad's like out of the country on a business trip, and soon we'll we will meet up with him. But after when we came to the US, that's when I realized that we actually escaped from Vietnam because we were boat people. We left the country by boat, and so did my dad. �Kaitlyn: So before you left, what kind of things did you do in preparation for leaving? Victoria: There is no preparation. You don't know between life and death, you don't know, if you're going to get caught by the communists, you don't know if um, you know, all you can do is leave quietly. So I would say the only preparation is that my dad has helped us because he left the country first. And he would send a map home to my uncle and mom, but in in little puzzle pieces, and they would have to put it together. Because if the government ever find out that you try to leave the country, um, that's a big punishment. You either go in jail or they would kill you at that time, and this was back in 1978-1979 after the war. So basically, you left the country in Vietnam, it's illegal, but when you go to other country it's not because they would take you in. Um you know, the country is communist and no one wants to stay in a communist country. Uh, so I mean there wasn't really a plan but I guess it was kind of planned out by my dad to help us in a way where we wouldn't get caught. So he sent the map in little puzzle pieces where my mom and my uncle had to put it together. And then my uncle's home already have a ship that was already, uh like for fishing. So they use the fishing ship as an escape ship, or a leaving ship out of the country to leave the country, and it was by water, like by the ocean that we have to leave. So, all I can remember was that we left that night and you're not allowed to make any noise. If the government or the communists catch you, um you're done. Kaitlyn: And I know we have stories in our family about like, you having a dog, um or things like that, do you remember like if you just left really abruptly or if there were other things you had to do before you left at night? Victoria: Um no, we just, from what I remember was my mom always told me we're visiting my grandmom. But we have to leave behind my dog. And I always ask her why at that time because I don't know that I'm leaving the country. All I know is that I'm going to go visit my grandmom, and then my grandmom is going to take us to my dad. And that's the story that was uh, told the people around so that you don't get or the government or the people around them get suspicious that you're trying to leave the country here. Um, so at that time, all I know as I'm going out to visit my grandmom and spend time with my cousins and you know, my uncles and my aunts and all that would be there. And which is true because all my grandma and uncles and aunts were on the ship. So all I can think of at that time was oh, we're gonna go see my dad now, um on his business trip or wherever he was. So for the time like I say, it was it was all kept secret by my mom because everything that was done cannot be known by the government, because you would get killed like I say or you would go to jail. And there'll be no way out for you if they ever catch you at that, in, back in those time of years. Kaitlyn: Then, okay. Do you remember how big the ship was? Or how many people were on it? And like, what your experience was like on the boat? �Victoria: [Chuckle] Yeah. So the ship is overflowing with people for safety. So it was hazardous. It's not enough food. Not enough water. Not enough. All I remember is the whole ship was crowded, and if there's a storm coming the ship can sink, in which it did happen the storm did come. But lucky we were saved by another ship when we were uh, out in the ocean. Um but at the beginning, when we travel at night like I say we have to leave at night, I always asked my mom, why can't we be loud and my little brother was a baby, he's only a couple months old. And he would cried. And my mom would have to hush him because if they can hear a baby crying, or if they catch us in any kind of way. So we take from a small little paddle boat out to the big ship. And from that big ship, we would leave. And that's a fishing ship. It's supposed to be for fishing, not for people, you know, like cruising or escaping or whatever it is. But there's so many people that want to leave the country at that time. Um, it was overcrowded, but we can't send them back because if we send them back, they would tell on us and we would all be caught. So there was some people on the boat that we don't even know and then there are some people in the boat that actually knows that they're going, which is our family. And so, when we travel, I think it was like almost three days before we reach the map where my dad has my mom and my uncle put together, that my dad has sent to the island where he was, and that was in Singapore. So a ship from Singapore saved us and we live in uh, those uh, what do you call that? Kinda like a home on the water. Uh I don't know what it's called by that time but it was like uh, it's not inside the country it's outside the country but the places they built for uh, people like us, would be immigrants to stay out until we get I guess kinda like, asylum. Um and then we get put in another country which is Indonesia: Galang 1 and Galang 2. Um, and we would stay there I think almost like a year before my dad actually sponsor us over to America. Then we left on the plane and flew over to America. But at that time we were on a big ship, American– I guess navy ship? I don't remember what kind of ship, but it was a U.S. ship that took us to Indonesia for asylum, I guess, until we um until we get into the country, legally. Sponsored by my dad. Kaitlyn: Okay so, just to be, or just to make sure. Like from what I studied, refugees stopped by, or many refugees stopped by a first destination as you were saying. So you stopped by Singapore first, and then you went to Indonesia? And then from Indonesia, you went on a ship to the US? Victoria: Yes. Kaitlyn: Okay, um I know you brought some pictures. Do you have any pictures from when you were in Indonesia and Singapore? And do you have any stories you can tell or remember from the time you were there for a year? Victoria: I don't have picture of us sailing on the ship, but I have pictures like, just like, where the island where we stay with my uncles and family that we took. Um, but I don't have like uh boat pictures because I guess my mom, um at that time doesn't really say or tell me because I was too little to know �that she actually like, we actually escaped the communist country. Um she wants us to just think that my dad is um sponsoring us over. But when I grown up, I realized that we were actually boat people. Like both people that escaped from Vietnam, from communist country over to America. For freedom. Kaitlyn: Can show me some of the pictures from when you were on the island? Victoria: Um yeah, I can show you like, like there's a temple, there's um of my mom and you know my little brother, and my sister, and my uncle, and her uncle, and my aunt um, right here. Kaitlyn: What is this picture? [Pointing at the photo she pulls out of an album] Victoria: This is in uh Galang 1 or Galang 2. Kaitlyn: And what were you guys doing here? Victoria: Um we were just taking pictures. We live in this uh country, for a while waiting from sponsorship from my dad, from America. Like saying like it's okay for us to come to the US, legally, um by plane. Kaitlyn: So you, wait. So you got — So you flew on a plane to America? Or you got on a boat to America? Victoria: No, We rode on a ship, a US ship, to America and that landed in Seattle, Washington. And then from Seattle, Washington, we flew over to DC. Kaitlyn: Okay, but okay. You're showing me this picture and– Victoria: This in Indonesia where we have to stay. Kaitlyn: Yes. Is this the temple you were talking about too or no? Victoria: Yes. Kaitlyn: Oh okay. Victoria: This is all– this is inside the temple in um, the island. Galang 1 or Galang 2, Indonesia. Part of Indo— it's an island in Indonesia. Kaitlyn: Okay. Do you have any other pictures? Or are these the only three? �Victoria: Those are the only three that's from the, from the island that we kept, I kept, that I have, of my mom and my grandma and my uncles. Most of my uncles are gone now or passed away. And so is my grandma. But that's, you know, the only picture that I have of them. I don't have a picture of um, I have pictures of my dad when I first came to America, with my grandma. That's like the first picture when we first came to America. [Shows image of family standing in front of a tree] Kaitlyn: And was this when you were in Seattle? Or was this is when you're in DC? Victoria: Um in Maryland. In Maryland. And yeah. [Flips through photo album] Kaitlyn: Okay, we can go back when we talk, or look at the pictures again, if we need to jog your memory or anything. Okay! So, do you remember, I think you said this already. But now we're going to talk about when you're in the US. But do you remember what year you arrived in the US and what your first impression of the United States was? I know you were really young. Victoria: So, we arrived, I remember as 1981. And I have here the um, the shot records for school. So, like you have to get all these immunizations before you're legally in school. So the date I have was the first um tetanus shot that I have was September 10, 1981. But I think I arrived here in January of '81. Or, or somewhere in around before school start. Kaitlyn: That's okay. We don't have to know the exact date, but just a general timeline. But yeah, back to my next question, the question that I asked though. I know you're really young you said you were like eight. Um but do you remember what you felt when you first came to the US? Or like, what you thought about it? Victoria: When I first came to the US, um, my dad pick us up in a green Camaro, I think it's a green like sport car. I think that's a Camaro, Chevrolet, whatever, sport car. And the seats were like [laughs] like holes in it. And you're, you know, it's illegal to sit with a lot of people in the back on a sport car. But there's like four of us and my mom, so there's five of us. So, I just think it's– I have all these memory where I don't want to say that we're poor, but we were immigrants so we're coming in as refugees. So we have green cards, um permanent resident alien they call us um from, we get all that paperwork done in Washington, Seattle. And then we got- flew over to Maryland where my dad actually was, at the time, and he sponsor us from there over here. Um, at once we got, you know into America. Um, so what I feel was like, oh wow, you know, like my first ride or anything in a car because we didn't have a car in Vietnam. We rode in like, motorcycles or you know um, if I go to school the neighbor would pick us up. And the neighbor came with us too to America, um, on the same boat. So the person who lived next to us came with us because I guess she knew that we're leaving Vietnam and we don't want to get in trouble by not, you know, like, she's like next door to us. �So we all say like, my mom's like, she tells us many different stories like where we're just visiting my Grandma, I'm going to see my dad, and all that. But when I first stepped to America, that's when I realized that my mom, um, wasn't lying, that I got to see my dad. But she actually came to tell us later on in life that, we actually escaped, we were both people arriving to America, as um, legal immigrant because we got sponsored in by my dad that was already here. Um— I don't know at that time, we lived in Riverdale. So the apartment, I mean everything is like, even if it's the poorest thing here in the US or the poorest neighborhood or whatever, to us it's uh, uh luxury. Because it's more than what we have back in the country. At that time, when you're a kid you don't, I don't know, I don't know any better except I know that I got to go to school. I got to ride in a car, even though the car's broken down [laughs]. I got to see my dad. Um, it was like, a happy moment. You know like for a kid who haven't seen you know, like your dad for two or three years. You're, you're happy. Kaitlyn: Yeah. Okay. Um, you know, so I wanted to ask you about– because you said you were happy and that it was better than, your living conditions were way better than in Vietnam, even though it might be considered poor over here. Can I ask you about how your parents made a living when they first came to the US and what they did? And did you ever have to help out, and stuff like that? Victoria: Umm, oh yeah. So back in the 80s um, minimum wage was like two dollars [laughs], and something per hour. So my, my dad worked as an assembly in a manufacturer. And then he got my mom to work in there. Um but when we first come over there, my mom didn't have a job until later. My dad was only working uh parent. So we get help from, I guess you call it welfare? And um you were on like food stamp? We were on food stamps for a while. We were on um, you know, the government helped us for awhile. And, but my dad also had an income where he had to go to work every day, supporting us. And I still remember um, I couldn't work because I was only eight. But I was still trying to help my mom like, we would dig through trash can for clothing. We would you know, like go to thrift stores. We're not, it's like, if you're talking about poor, I mean, that's I uh guess it's better than living in a communist country. Because they control you, but here it’s not really controlling. It's like you can find stuff in the trash can which you can't really find in Vietnam. But I didn't have to find stuff in Vietnam. Like I said, my mom, my dad came to the US first and he send like money home sometime to help out, and my mom works. So I was kind of living like an okay life. But if I think if I was to grow up my whole life in Vietnam I would have been in a more serious poor situation than the US. But even coming to the US in like, I say not like poor, maybe can poor consider to the people in America, but it's not poor consider to people in the communist country. Third World country. Um, so I would say like, we, we were doing like, finding cans. We would sell cans, we would, you know, to the Safeway store to get money here and there for like our candy or ice cream. We don't get the luxury of, you know, like kids nowadays, where whatever you want to eat you can just go out to the ice cream truck and buy. At that time, we would have to have, like, I would have to, you know, like, have the extra money to go buy. My dad wouldn't just, you know, take us to the ice cream truck and say here �[laughs], "this is your treat". Because money back then was real tight. But once my mom start working and then they work, they work hard, they worked their way up. And I guess we were in the apartment for awhile because, maybe like my parents came over, my mom came over '81. And my parent actually bought their first home in 1986. Before they bought their second home in 1991. So I mean, my parents was hard-working parents. And I would have to like, at that time you're not supposed to leave your kid at home [laughs], you know, illegally, but I was only eight and I have to watch my two siblings, and my sister. So that was kind of like, illegal, but that's what we have to do. You know like when you, you work um, your parent goes to work, and then you get stuck home and— my parent can't afford babysit. You know they don't have the money to babysit so we babysit each other. We looked after each other. So we would get in trouble all the time if something happened at home. Um, sometime my brother breaks the apartment door glass. Sometime it's like you know, like, c'mon now I'm only eight so I had to watch over like, my brother what, three years younger than five, five year old and a two year old um, of course they're not going to listen to me over my parents but both of my parents have to be at work. So yeah, I helped a lot out, it's kinda like, the older sibling took care of the younger sibling at a wrong age, but we made it through and we survived. And like I say the car, um, was a sport car. But there's six of us every time we go, we have to sit, like hiding on the floor, and hoping praying to God that we doesn't get caught by cop [laughs]. Because my dad would be in big trouble. But every time when we go somewhere it's always like nervous breakdown for my dad because if he gets pulled over, he's done. Like, with his license maybe, or suspended. But luckily, I am grateful for, like God blessed us because we never got caught in that green Camaro that he have, Chevrolet Camaro I think, that was the car. And that was the longest car time, before my dad can afford like another car. And even then we still–six people in a sedan [laughs]. So it's for, it's for a while, like until the kids actually grow up and get their own like, you know, money and work and stuff to help out. Um, so I mean, if you call babysitting one another taking care of helping out, yes. Picking up clothes from trash can, cans to sell to you know, yes. But, I would say that's probably the happiest moment. Because you get to be with your parents, and you get to be with your family [tears up]. Kaitlyn: And I know that you were talking about taking care of your brothers a lot and being with your parents. What about your sister? Was she there and were are you taking care of her too, or where was she? Victoria: So, we have two apartments. So my grandma helps out taking, um my sister at the time, because I guess my grandma was like still young, at that age, my age of eight. I mean, she was probably my parents age right now or younger. Younger than my parents age right now, which my mom right now is 74. My grandma is probably in her 50s or 60s. I don't know. But um, my grandma helped out. We all help out. We live in an apartment— Kaitlyn: You lived in two apartments? �Victoria: We lived in– uh yeah because my grandma have their own apartment, with my uncles and aunt. And then, my parents have us. It's a two bedroom apartment for six people. So the four of us would be in one room and then my parents would be in one room. Kaitlyn: So your sister was, your sister was there with you guys? Victoria: Yeah, during, during, like um nighttime. But daytime she would stay at my grandmom because it would be too much for me to take care because she's older than me, and then I have two smaller sibling, so I can only babysit my two brother. I can't babysit my older sister that's handicapped too because if something happened, I can't leave her, you know, because then, people probably get suspicious [laughs]. But yeah, like I say, we did most of the illegal stuff, like, not illegal, but like illegal as in your– it's kind of like babysitting. You're not allowed to stay home at certain age. You're not allowed to ride in a car without seatbelt. You know, those kinds of things. But otherwise, it's nothing else that's like, tremendous you call illegal. Kaitlyn: Right, okay. Yeah that's fine. I mean [laughs], I just, yeah. I also want to circle back because you said, you're talking about your family now and like your aunts or uncles are with you, grandma's with you, your mom, dad, your brother, your sister. What happened, whatever happened to that neighbor, that came with you? Victoria: Oh! So, we're boat people. So whoever sponsor you, whatever asylum you seek for, whoever sponsor you, so we all spread out to different state. There's some people in the boat that we don't know goes to different states that– I'm only eight. So I don't remember all of them. But I only remember that one neighbor because that one neighbor lived in Virginia. And it was near my dad, so they came in contact with my dad later. That's how I know that they are nearby us. But everyone else is spread out because whoever sponsor you in the US is where you go. It can be whatever state. Like I say, we were actually brought in by the ship to Washington, Seattle before my dad's sponsor us over to Maryland. From the plane—to live with him. Kaitlyn: Mhm. Okay! Yeah I just wanted to circle back on that but if she was in Virginia, do you know if she's still here and do you still talk to her anything? Victoria: Um, so she, my parent did have connection with them for awhile. But I guess after that everyone goes on their own way because you, you're busy in America, you're too busy for anything. You have your own life, you have your own family, and they're not, they're just our neighbor. They're not like family where we keep in touch. So maybe a couple time um they came, um to visit us, but that was about it. Kaitlyn: Okay! And, now I'm gonna start asking questions, I guess more focused on your adult experience, now that we've talked about your childhood and stuff. Um, so pivoting to this question, I �know that many people who migrate to the US often end up being translators for their parents in a new society. Was that your experience growing up? And I guess when did that start, if it was? Victoria: So [nervous laugh], that starts soon because my parents don't, didn't go to school here. So their English is— whatever I learned in school. I would have to talk to them in Vietnamese at home. So I would have to learn two language, um, to communicate, unlike my brother who can speak English later on and, and not have to worry about Vietnamese. But they still have to talk to my parent in somewhat Vietnamese, but not like the older– in Asia tradition the oldest always take care of the youngest. So it's more or more on me as a mirror image for my brother. So my parents always expect more from me. Um, my sister's mentally challenged so they can't expect anything from her. So I was kinda like, the route for my parents, if anything paperwork wise. Taking care of my sibling wise um. It's, it's a, I don't want to say it's a challenge for me but it's, it's a lot of things that you can't— it makes you grow up faster. So, maybe that makes me want my kid to grow up faster because I have that kind of trait, where I have to learn everything and do everything on my own. Um, learn everything quick, do everything quick, uh catch on to everything quick, because you have to survive in a country that is your second language. So, taking ESOL but I got out of ESOL quickly and that I end up helping ESOL kids, at times. Um, but all is, I know that if I have to do it, I am grateful and blessed that my dad had given us that opportunity, or you know, helping us to get here, and working his day off, hard, to get where we are. And it's like a lot of appreciation. If it wasn't for my dad, we wouldn't be in the US. We would be still in Vietnam, in the communist country and third world country. Where, if you really see the poor side of Vietnam, maybe that's where we would be right now but I'm not sure where we would be at. But I know that being grateful and appreciation, and even though it's suffering, for me as a child to pick up things or learning things, it's a will. It's like, I want to do it. At the same time, I don't think, I don't take it for granted like kids nowadays does, like things that kids have now. They take it for granted. We take everything in, not for granted. We take it in as a blessing, a gift, you know, something that God grant us. Kaitlyn: Okay, sounds like you had a lot of hardships growing up, but are so grateful for your experience in the US. So I guess, my next question is, since you had to do everything a lot on your own, and kind of be like, suffice for yourself, how did you make money when you're in the US, and when did that have to start, if you were helping your family out? Victoria: So I started working as soon as my minimum age was legal. Which is at that time, or back in time was 14 and 9 months. You can work like 20 hours per week. Um, so as soon as I was legal to work, I started working at McDonald's. And at that time it was $4.25 an hour. And every paycheck I would go give it to my mom. And that's when she bought our second home. Um, my mom at that time, my parents would use my name and I was only what [laughs]. 14 Something, I was on the mortgage with them, because I have an income coming in. Um, but it's like that's my first job and every penny earned is every penny you know you saved. Um, I started working at that age. I bought my own car! I got, I go pay for �my own tuition. So you work around where you save and you go to school and you try, you always try your hardest and your best when your second language is not your first language. Because—you have to um, I wouldn't say fight for your things but it's like you have to earn it, and you have to uh, uh work hard for it. So, it's not a day in my life where I just like lay back and say "oh, this is nothing", this is you know, every penny is something. Because when you have to pick things from a trash can or you know, selling cans or you know working at age 8, or doing all the work that you did to survive– you take everything and appreciate it. So [tears up], to me um, when I started working when I can is when I, when I can, and I do everything that I can [sniffles]. I try to get as many job as I can because, I just want to have, I guess a simple life. Or if I have a family and my holiday that my kids doesn't have to suffer of doing what I had to do. Kaitlyn: Okay, thank you for sharing that. Um, I guess on a more happier note. Now you started working at 14 and 9 months but that's also the same time you were in high school. And I know you also talked about paying for your tuition. Do you remember how you made friends here and what you liked to do together with them? Or do you remember any of those friends and who they were, and if they were still friends with them today? Victoria: Yes! Um, most of my friends, we stay in touch with uh Facebook. Um and I went out a couple time, I would say once or twice um. And I did go back and look for my high school, one of my best friend, um that's not Vietnamese, like Indian, but she moved. I don't know where she moved to. But her parents still live at the same house! One of my friend moved to Florida, in Miami. Her name is Nicole [...]. And there's a friend of mine that lives in Columbia, Maryland right now, in Howard County and his name is Matthew [...]. And then I have a David [...] that's in Virginia. A Joseph [...] in North Carolinayeah! We stay in touch, even though it doesn't seem or feel like we're still talking, but we do. We you know, text each other through Facebook or we comment things. We don't get, because like I say everyone have their own family and busy life. So if there's a chance, we might meet up one day all together, we might. But I can name you like Lavinia [...], that's here. Kaitlyn: [Laughs] That's okay, you don't have to name all of them! Victoria: Yeah, but they're the friends that you know, that's long, best friend or good friends because we still try to keep in touch. And they're my high school friends and they're my elementary school friends, um middle school friends. That we stay from elementary to middle school to high school, and through college. And then you know as you grow up, as I was growing up I meet like, one of my best friend, Diana [...], is from high school at High Point. And we still go eat, we still do things and I introduce like, you guys, my kids to her. Um and then I have college friend like Margaret [...] and Jane [...]. And then I have like– it's always good to have at least a close friend, you know, from [laughs] your younger ages. But I don't know if they have to come over the way I do but I know they're also immigrants, um, my college friends. And probably the same way that I did but maybe like [sniffles] not boat people but �maybe sponsor by plane. Um but I was one of the friends that came over by boat, by like seeking asylum um, and I worked my way up. Um you know, I don't want to say rags to riches because we're not rich but to be rich is uh, when you know that you have food on your table or when you have like you said, still hang around with your friends, or when you are grateful for everything you have. Kaitlyn: Okay [smiles]. Thank you for sharing that again. Do you remember, I know you were talking about your college friends, being immigrants as well. Do you think that shared experience is, is why you guys are friends? Or why you guys, do relate to them in any way? Victoria: Um, that's not why we became friends, but we learned from each other once we became friends that, you know like, when we talk, oh, "were you like sponsor here?" It's the same condition where like, you know, they would tell me, my college friend would tell me- oh, like my friend Jane [...], she would have to take care of her siblings. She have to work the same age I have to work. Or she would have to you know, help out her parents where you know, like on welfare and opening up restaurants and you know? Try to better ourselves. So it's kind of like make, it made us stay friends like best friends, probably forever. Uh because we have that kind of relationship, or that we can understand where we came from, uh, but I also have, like I said, like my friend, Nicole [...]. She always asked me to come over to Florida because that's where she is. Like, I was her friend and she's like uh, we have sleepover when we were kids. And um, it's not that I distance myself but it's like I don't have time in my life, or you know, like, maybe one day I will when my kids are older where I have time to myself to go visit all my friends that I tell you that I still, keep in touch with through Facebook or stuff, and go see. But um, my college friend is more closer as um. It's like we build relationship because we can understand our, I guess our life is more alike. And we all work hard to get where we are today. Kaitlyn: And, do you feel like, well, I know who they are, so I know they're both Asian. Do you feel like you were more like, I guess attracted to making friends with people since you're alike? And because they're Asian, or because they're Vietnamese? And it was easier for you guys to understand each other. Or was that not something that you're thinking about when you became friends with them? Victoria: Umm, no that was not something I think about because I have all kinds of friends, like my, my best uh elementary school friend. Uh her name was Lakisha [...]. And she's, we just um, when I move was like at that time, I was only what, sixth grader? So I lost contact, and when I tried to go back to the same house to visit when I was older, and she's gone. Like she moved. So we all move on our own ways. But, it's not because they're Asian that I stay close with. But it's the personality. It's the kind of like um, you know, like the understanding the environment, or you know, like when you're in college and you have a best friend or you do things. And it's like, I have uh I want to say not like, all color friends? You oh, you call it color people or whatever it is they call it now. But I have White friends, Black friends, Asian friends, you know. We don't, we don't, how would I say? Uh like nowadays racist this and racist that. We don't have those back in our days. We are all like together, we're you know like one. We play �with each other, there's no difference in how we become friends. But it's how, it's how we, our personality, our you know like, what we like as one another, how we feel. It's free. You know like, we're we were more open. We're not like, I don't want to say today is more or whatever it is. But uh, I want, and I don't know, like how I, like the question you asked me is like, I want to say that we're opened. We're, we love each other for who we are and what we do and how we can relate to each other. And how not just because of where we come from, but like our, you know like our personality. Kaitlyn: Yeah. No, I understand what you're saying. I just asked that question because like in my experience, like my friend who's Vietnamese, I can relate to her on more things and stuff. Because we're both Vietnamese because we have the same shared experience. So I go to her to talk about that. But I might not go to my other friends to talk about that. And it just sounded similar to what you were saying. Victoria: Mhm. Kaitlyn: Yeah. Okay [laughs]. But I guess on the same topic, did you think about your Vietnamese identity growing up a lot in the U.S.? And how did that influence like school, your work, your family, and your social life? Victoria: Um, so the funny thing is, back then, it's more of, you feel like you're a uh, what do you call that? There's a word I can't think of it. Um. Kaitlyn: Can you describe it? Victoria: Umm. Not. It's uh, it's kind of like you're a... oh my god, I can't think of the word. It's like, on paper, they always ask— a minority! Okay, so the word is minority. Um, so in school, we're minority, just like you know, every other minority. But the only thing I have problem was when I was a kid let's say back, if I have stories to tell, I have lots of story to tell. There's kid that picks on you that think no matter what, you're Vietnamese, you're Japanese, you're Chinese, you're Korean, you're whatever. The first thing they think in mind is you're Chinese. They don't care what kind of Asian or nationality or ethnic, or you know, you are. Um first come to mind, everyone thinks you're Chinese. They never once know I'm Vietnamese until I say I'm from Vietnam. Like, where they asked me, “where you're from?” That's when they'll know! But otherwise, they'll assume that I'm Chinese. And I guess because Chinese people came before, to the US, or have migrated here, um before us maybe? I'm not sure. Um but I don't feel any difference in school as for Vietnamese. But I know that it makes me, work harder study harder because I was fortunate to come to a country with freedom and with opportunities. Then a third world country, where I was told by my parents that if I was still there, I would be less of what I am today then, you know. Kaitlyn Kim: Mhm [nods]. �Victoria: When I'm- when I'm, you know, if I was still there. So, I don't know if that's how other people thinks, but I know that everyone– Oh, I can't speak for everyone. But the friends that I know and the friends that I have, work hard to get to where they are. Kaitlyn: So, I think that you answered the beginning of the question. Do you think about, or I know you were talking about like working hard and that's, even like if you were getting picked on and stuff, that just made you want to work harder. Do you think about your Vietnamese identity now? Like as an adult, or like, with your family, and things like that? Or not as often? Victoria: Um What do you mean? Like Vietnamese? Kaitlyn: Cause you talked about like, you have a lot of stories [laughs]. Victoria:Yeah! So for growing up as a Vietnamese, it's kind of like you're in the minority group. Kaitlyn: Okay. Victoria: Um, I mean, the chances you have is still the same. Like, let's say, example, if I go to apply for jobs, I probably get the same opportunity, as you know, any other, you know, nationality, you know? Nationality or races, or whatever it is. It's, it's like, you feel, I feel fortunate because I can speak two language. That I can you know, use that! It's America where everybody is here. Not just White, Black, Asian, you know um, whatever it is. You know it's like everyone is in the sameit's like- you don't- for me it's, I was taught not to differentiate yourself. You're no different, you're all the same. As long as you work hard and you have the mind to keep it, you shouldn't think less or more or whatever it is. You're, I guess, because the way my parents or my dad brought us up is, you always stay strong and you work for what you earn. You earn for what you work. You know? It's like you um— and I think this is how I teach my kid now too is like, you have to be strong because you have to be independent. You have to know how to take care of yourself. It doesn't matter the color, the race you are, the ethnic you are or whatever it is. It's you, your personality. You are yourself. So Vietnamese, or white, or whatever it is, I think I am, I'm probably the same way. Because I think it's how you were brought up, or how you're teached as a child is how you're going to grow up with yourself. Kaitlyn: Okay! So you were talking about how you raised your kids with these values and these morals. Is it or was it important for you, when you, like was it important for you to raise your kids with Vietnamese traditions and their culture then as well? Victoria: Um I would say, important, I wouldn't use the word important. But it's good if they know their culture because then they can know their background of where they came from. Um, t's like I would send my kids to school1, so they could know the language. Or you know like, or it's like, I want to teach 1 In reference to Vietnamese Language School �them some tradition. Um you know, like, just for because they're Vietnamese. Their skin, I mean, their skin color, their hair, it's- they're still Asian. As if they walk out in the street, people are gonna say they're Asian even though they're born here. You know what I'm saying? Um so, just because you're born here doesn't mean like, you know like, you're not an American. It's like some people think, like, just because of your skin, your color, that's who you are. But they have to think that we're in the U.S. We're united. It should be everybody. You know? So I think it's good that my kid knows the background of where they came from, like, for knowing that their grandparents are Vietnamese. Their parents are born in Vietnam, you know. They're born here and maybe their next- their child is going to be born here, or are they going to be mixtures of you know. But it's always good for a child, even myself, to know where you came, you actually came from, so that you know um, your ancestor. But you don't have to remember the bad things of your ancestors. Like for me, even though Vietnam was a communist country and I left the country because of it, I wouldn't think poorly of my country because hopefully one day they would change, you know. They would become a more united, like here. Or more open. So being Vietnamese is kind of like a good thing, and more opportunity, or with any kind of nationality you are. Once you get to the US it's like, opportunities are there for you. It's either you take it or not. Kaitlyn: Okay, um. That makes sense. I guess, my next question is, we were talking about how you want your kids to know where they came from, preserve their background. Was this something you thought about? Like when you were marrying, or dating people? Like was it important for you like in your early 20s, I guess or, in your dating life, to like, to be committed to marry someone else who was like Vietnamese? Or you also talked about, how like, that never mattered to you also. So maybe like, this wasn't even a thought in your head. Victoria: No, I strongly believe in fate. I always teach my kids that. And I tell you, your journey in life you never know who you're going to marry, who you're going to meet. And, you can say no, you can say you only marry White you can only marry Black, you can only marry Asian you can only you know whatever it is. But at the end of the day, you don't know that answer because it's your fate. And I truly believe in fate. And I truly- if you have faith, or if you believe in something and you have faith in it, God will grant it to you. So I believe that to me back then it's not all Asian that I dated, I dated black, I dated white, I dated um many. Uh, other, you say races, but it's my parent. So it started with my parents where, they would only want- because they were raised, I guess, in a like I said, in a communist third world country. But when I came here, I was eight. So basically, I was raised here in the US where it's united and open-minded. And for me, it's like, there's no difference. I don't see that. I don't see, you know, like all the commotion now about going back. Why are you going back when you supposed to go forward? You know why are you going back to like slavery and think— why are you putting those things in your kid's head? You know, like, you should be going forward to move up, to improve. You shouldn't go like backward, you know? So for me, I think it doesn't matter. And to me back then, if, if my fate wasn't to marry my husband right now, which is Vietnamese, maybe if my fate �was to marry somebody might be different like my brother. He marry, you know, a white German, mixed, you know? So you can't say that you have a preference. I believe in fate. Kaitlyn: Okay [chuckles]. UmVictoria: Because my parents would love for him to marry an Asian, you know, whatever background or whatever it is. Kaitlyn: Okay. So I guess, your parents impose those views on you but you didn't really care or you didn't likeVictoria: It's not that I don't care. I respect my parents thinking and thought. But again like I say, you can't control a person's personality. And you can't control a person's mind. You can give your opinions and thought. But if they're all fate that they have to deal with. And they would have to see that themselves. And I can't speak for everybody. Kaitlyn: Yeah. Victoria: I can only speak for myself. And that's why I tell you, I truly believe in fate and I see it where, if you want to be someone, or, you know, not to be successful or whatever it is. You got to have an open mind and you have to know that this world is not just you. You, you know um, I don't want to say that God didn't bring like different colors of people for no reason. There's a reason behind everything and I think that, for me, it's more important of being united being open, being like- you have to understand people's point of view. I mean you can have your own opinion but you have to like also listen to other people's opinion. Doesn't mean that you're wrong or they're wrong. And it doesn't mean you're right or they're right. It's just, if I had, if my fate was to marry another race, then I would've been marrying another race, right? Um, but I marry my husband right now. You just have to learn to make it, not make it through in life. But you have to just to learn, like, how to deal with things when it comes. Kaitlyn: Yeah. Okay. Thank you for sharing that. Um, I guess still being on the topic of family, can you talk a little bit more about your family? Like your kids and like, where you lived? And just share like your experience with having a family in the U.S.? Victoria: Hm. To me, I think family is everything. So family comes first. And I think I've always put that in my kid's head. I don't know, you know if they're going to understand it [laughs], but I always tell them that family comes first. And I want to say I try to work hard so that I have a family, with my kids growing up where- I don't want them to be in a situation where you know digging through the trash cans or stepping on cans and selling at Safeway. So, every parent's gonna want something better for their kids. Every parent. You know what I'm saying? So, my parent might be the whatever, of course, they want the best for us but like I say, again, fate brings you to where you are. So I try hard to make stuff for �my kids where they have everything. But sometimes it's hard because we started off as um you know, you can't help it when certain situation happen. So, when I try hard back then and then I bump into a few bumps, with my life or with my fate, or with my journey- I mean, I wasn't happy with my kid living in one room when they were like five or six, you know? So I try to get my own place. You always try to work hard because everything you do I think as a parent, or for me, family comes first. So as a parent I always try to make things more for my kid. And hopefully they understand one day. Maybe sometime I'm probably rough or tough on them. Or more protective, or more secure, or whatever it is. It's only because I want good things to come out for my kids. So, I don't know how to tell you like, I mean, no parent is a perfect parent, no kids are perfect kids. And again, things happen for a reason. So by, God forbids, I'm gonna go back and tell you that I strongly believe in fate, and wherever it meant for you to be or where you are, uh that's how it's gonna be. It's just like, for example, I have cancer, I thought my life was over maybe 10 years ago. Uh 11 years ago actually, 2013. But I pray and I asked you know to stay a little longer with my kids, at least to give them enough time to grow up or to understand things or to help them a little. And God granted that or, you know, the higher up granted or whoever it is, my guardian angel, or whoever it is that granted the wish. So, I always think if you have a strong value in family, it's how your kid's gonna become. If a kid doesn't have a strong family bond, then I think they might get lost somehow on their way with their journey. You know? So I think it's important for you, as parents, to understand your kid and for your kids understand you. And it's hard sometimes for kids to understand you because they're, they grow up quick now. You know, they— how would I say it? I guess, back then we didn't grow up as fast as kids nowadays. You know like, the world is growing with new technologies so things are of course gonna be more improved. I mean it's a good thing. But I don't think schools nowadays are teaching them. Like, in school. Like before, you have handwriting classes. You don't have that in school now. And I mean, technologies is a good thing but it's only how you raise your kid and how your kids takes it, to make it the best. Kaitlyn: Okay. I’m tryna think. I guess I know you're talking a lot about your beliefs and your thoughts on how you wanna raise your kids and that's really important. And I always like to hear that, obviously. But I also want to hear about I guess, just your experience, and like, growing up Vietnamese in America . And like, was Maryland the only place you stayed? Like can you share anything about like, what it's just like being an immigrant? Victoria: Um, I can tell you being an immigrant, coming to the US, is a long way. And that's some big dreams for some people. And for some people— I guess uh because U.S. is all known as you know, freedom. And everybody, I guess, not everybody, I don't know if everybody thinks this way but communism, where the you know everything's controlled, and you don't have that freedom. So when you come to a country with freedom, of course you're going to cherish it and appreciate it and are grateful for it. So, by being an immigrant coming to the US, for me, because I came at a young age, at eight. But I know my parents always, always, say to me or always tells me, "you better be grateful, you better thank God that I brought you here", or "we brought you here." Right? And, so, that's been in my head where I know that I better appreciate. But then I also learn on my own that you appreciate things �that you don't have. So, when I see like other immigrants, now that's trying to come into the US, illegally, um that makes me kind of, I wouldn't say mad, but I think is unfair where I- we have to work our way to come here, legally. Seeking asylum and doing it the proper way. Not just like running through the border or getting on a you know, like nowadays. It's a lot of changes. So, I would say that coming here to the US during my time, you're more grateful. And you're more blessed. And you're more thankful. I can't speak that for now where the immigrant just come in now illegally, because it makes the people that's been here, you know, where they have to obey the law and pass the law and get here, like during my time or after my time. We work hard. Kaitlyn: I just, I guess I'm just like... I'm like, I'm happy that you're sharing like how you feel about things and stuff. But I guess I was wondering about just your experience, like being in the US. And not like, what you think of the other immigrants, like your own experience. Because I just wanted to knowVictoria: Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. Like, if my own experienceKaitlyn: Yeah, like, so my question, I guess, was asking, like- basically, do you have any storiesbecause I know, you came to Maryland. Like I wanted to hear more maybe about like, did you move anywhere else? Victoria: Ohhh. Kaitlyn: Did you, like how was that? Like finding your way in the US being an immigrant and things like that? If you have any stories like that. Victoria: So when you when you grow up and learning your way, umKaitlyn: Like, was it just Maryland? LikeVictoria: No, it wasn't just Maryland. I mean, I've uh go to Minnesota. Um but that's, that's like, as an immigrant, you have to learn your way around and you have to like know. But that's like not from being an immigrant, moving to Minnesota. That's like, I moved to Minnesota because after I graduate, I have a job offer. Or you know like, being like, it's like, it's like I'm telling you like, like my friend, we move to different state. And some friends go back to their own state. Um, so when I graduated from college, I moved to Minnesota because I have a job offer. So it's like, you take the best offer and you work hard and you know for me, it's like, opportunities. So it's like opportunities open, you take it. And I don't know if other immigrants feel that way but any opportunity that comes their way, they're gonna appreciate it and they're going to take it and they're gonna um you know, like, live the best out of it. And so for me, I live in Maryland all my life since I was eight, until I graduated from college. Then I moved to Minnesota for about a good 10 years, and then I moved back to Maryland! So you always go back where you came from. Um not as in country, but as in like, you know, like your parents or your family, �are there. So my family was still in Maryland. I was only one that moved to Minnesota. But that again, I tell you is because it's from- I graduate and an opportunity opened. So I want to get the experience in my first job. Get the experience so I can have it on my resume. And then I can apply for work here in Maryland. And when I went back, I mean, I have my first child in Minnesota. And then I moved back here and have the rest of my three children here in Maryland. Um, so it's, it's like— I already left my own country as a child moving to the U.S. And then I left the state that I was raised in to move to another state. So that tells you there's a big difference because once, when I left my country, it was it was not a choice. It was I have to go for the better life, or better uh, living. Or better whatever it is, that you know, at that time my parents wanted for me. So when I left the state, I had a choice. I didn't have to move to Minnesota. But I chose it because of jobs, because of opportunity. So it's more of a like, in a sense of a way where I think, like, just in general, um, maybe that's from the same feeling or thinking where if I have an opportunity, I'm going to take it. Kaitlyn: Okay. That makes sense. And I guess like with that in mind and like, I feel like there's a theme of like opportunities, freedom, and like, what America has to offer. Do you have any plans for the future? Are you thinking about anything specifically? Victoria: Um— if I had a choice and if life let me live longer, um— I would take all the opportunity given. Like if, if I can open up my own business. Or you know, that's always been a dream, that I have my own you know, um, working or my own place, that I work for myself. Um, and same thing goes for, like I say, for my children. If you know, every parent's going to want their children to be better than them. So if there's if I, if I have the time and you know if I can, if I know the future, and have choices, I would take every opportunity there is. Because I know that America have a lot to offer. Opportunities and everything else that other country might not. And um, I would actually if, if I could, I would help the people back in my country because I was given that opportunity— to have a better life. And I probably would want my children one day to know that um, like you say freedom and opportunity, that they have, that they can go a long way sharing it. And I already see that with you, my oldest child, um doing it not just because of immigrant, but you know like um, you are not an immigrant but you share like, my cancer situation. Where you pass it on and you know, like helping other kids.2 So that's the same way I feel. I mean like with immigrant um, not every immigrant want their life to be that way. They, try to you know, everybody wants to have a better life. And everybody wants freedom. And everybody wants opportunity. And everyone, you know, I think. And some people are given that, they're given choices, where they have choices. And there's people that aren't given any choices, where they have to fight, uh for it. So, if I was given like, more time? I would help. It would make me feel more better if I can help people, to think or to know, or to understand that you know that being an immigrant isn't easy. Um, It's a lot of uh, a lot of work. Not work as in like you do work physically, but a lot of challenge and like mentally and physically. And uh, every, how would I tell you? I don't want to Kaitlyn is the director of UMD’s chapter of Kesem. It is a national non-profit that supports children who are impacted by their parent’s cancer. Victoria is referring to this organization when she is talking about her cancer experiencing and Kaitlyn passing on help. 2 �separate or make the difference between immigrant and non-immigrant, I just tell you, every human beings are gonna want the best for themselves. That's I mean, my opinion. Kaitlyn: Okay. Um, awesome. Well I know that I'm taking a lot of your time up [laughs]. So we're nearing the end of the interview. But I guess I have two last questions! First one is, I'm curious to why you were interested in this interview? And is there anything else you would like to share about your immigration experience. Or about being an immigrant? I know, we have stories in our family about like, the ice cream truck. Or like, you said that you wanted to start a business but I remember stories about like the cell phone business we had. Like, is there anything you want to share, that's left? Or, you don't have to if you don't want to. Victoria: Um yeah. Like I told you, I always wanted to have a business, but there's business that fails and there's business that you know- cell phone business was not really my business. It was my dad's. And my brother's. So I just help out. That wasn't really my business. So if I have my own business one day, it might not be a cell phone business. Um, it might be something, where, maybe charity? To help you know, the poor, or you know like to go to other country to support you know like, third world country. To help childrens like myself at that age, to have better schooling, you know, like, you don't have to go through the trash can to dig for stuff or stepping on cans and, and stuff like that. Or go working at an early age that, nowadays people call uh childKaitlyn: Labor? Victoria: Labor. So there's many things but you know, like, child labor can be good or bad because child. [Alarm rings and pause in recording] Victoria: So as I was saying, child labor can be good or bad. But you know, like sometime, if child labor is a will from the child, then it’s not bad. But if it's a force or if it's have to, then it's bad. But that's just an opinion again like I say. Like, but selling ice cream with my dad. That was my dad's business too. Ice cream truck. So I have to like help out working after school. Um, every day go sell ice cream until like eight-nine o'clock, come home and still have homework. That's like an Asian culture where I tell you back in the days, where from my parents’ generation, not my generation, but my parents’ generation. In Asia it's always, you respect the elder and whatever say goes. Right? So that's a communism country. But you know, like— I think in most country to not just Asia, uh because I have some um, Hispanic friends or co-workers that they say they always respect their elder. They never like dare to speak back or whatever it is. Um, but I don't know if it's every culture are like that. Like America is freedom. The kids can say whatever they want, or how they feel. Because again, the word is freedom. They have too much freedom. But it's, it's, it's, it's like how I would say like— if like, I can't express it to you. But I can tell you that, just be glad. I am glad that I have the opportunity, the freedom, and the will �to do what I want to do. And I was- and I am grateful and thankful, um that I was given that opportunity and freedom to do so um, by coming here, to the U.S. And I would want to pass that along to many generation after me, to know that um, or to teach my kid that um, or to let my kid know that it's not easy. From my parents to me, to their generation might be a little easier. But of course, that's what every parent want. It’s easier and easier for the next generation, right? But when it gets out of hand and control where um, when it gets too easy, I think the kids doesn't— take it in as uh, being grateful anymore. They don't appreciate things. I don't know if you understand what I'm saying. Like they don't appreciate things. You don't learn to appreciate things until it's too late. Or you don't learn to appreciate things unless it happens to you. So um, if I have, uh to do it all over again, coming to the US, as uh, I wouldn't regret it. Kaitlyn: Okay. Alright. WellVictoria: It's like an experience. Kaitlyn: Yeah, I don't really have any more questions. I guess my last one is, what was it like to share your story? Victoria: I'm glad that you asked me to be in this interview, because I like to share my story so that people know that, not every immigrant is bad, or not every immigrant is good. It's how that human being bring themself um like, here. Or bring themselves to be known. Or how they treat others and themself. It's like, I'm glad that I share that um, I'm glad that you offer me this interview because it's kinda like, I want to share my point of view as being an immigrant. It's not easy on an immigrant, um, because they have to learn second language first of all. Second of all, when they come, not everything is free. They have to work for it. Um, so it's like, it's not easy? But it's not hard because you're given the freedom and opportunity and there- I know that there are some people out there that take advantage of it. And um, and that are not grateful. But for me, as a Vietnamese, or raised child or Asian, you call it uh, raised by my parents generation. Uh, It's a lot harder than then the new generation these days. Because uh like I say, as each day we improve. You know, we learn, we expand. So— if you go back in the old days, I would say I like to share that. If you as a human being, love yourself, think yourself, believe in faith. Believe in, you know fate, and things happen for a reason, and be more open minded to things instead of closure, um then I think you would be okay. Uh, anywhere you go. Even like, you know, other country, not just the U.S. Kaitlyn: Okay. Well, I think that’s all I have. I’m gonna ask one more time if you wanna share anything else but other than that, yeah. Victoria: Um— I just wanna share that, I, like I told you um, you’re probably gonna hear it over and over again, that I think, I can’t speak for other immigrants but I know that we are all grateful and we are �blessed, and we love America. Uh because, we are given that freedom and opportunity to be here. And to grow ourself, and to make life better for our children. And I hope society, uh, doesn’t take any difference in what status you are or what nationality you are, or you know like uh, who you are. But like, they would take you know like, into consideration that we’re all humans. We all have blood running through us and that we all should love each other. Uh, you know, love doesn’t mean like, intimately or whatever it is. But like care, you know like, like if we, if we appreciate each other and work together I think this country will probably be the strongest country. Because it’s, it’s already there. But it’s just, it’s just getting, I don’t know. Ever since COVID, or ever since whatever it is, it’s uh, it’s like going backwards and not forward. Victoria: Um, so I would like to share that um[Pause in recording] Victoria: I guess in one short sentence, that I can say, that um, I’m happy and I’m grateful, and thankful for your interview. And to share my thought of um, of my stories, um it’s like if I go on with stories from a little kid until now, you gonna have many and I can have many. Um, but the one thing that I’m blessed is that, I’m here in the U.S. now and this is my country. Um it doesn’t matter, you know, you left your country for a reason. So when you’re in this country, you need to make this country, your country. You shouldn’t like um, separate, make separations of you know, you know “your country, my country.” If you, if you left, I believe one good thing is that I learned, is that if you’re gonna leave your country to come to another country, you need to appreciate that country that you’re in. And um, I guess that’s all I can say, for myself. I don’t know if other people might think that way, um but they should, because why are you gonna um, talk about the country that you left, right? Um the reason you left, because, that country wasn’t good for you. So you came here to the U.S., you migrate here to the U.S., you should be grateful and thankful, and make this your country. And I just hope that in the future, where my kids um, well you know, I’m just being honest. My kids, your kids, the new generation kids, is all in one and united. And I think just because you have black hair, or your skin color, or whatever it is, you were born here in this country. That means you are the U.S., you know citizen. You are an American. And I still think, until this day, I believe that many people still have separations, of whatever color, whatever your skin color is, whatever your races is, you’re different. And I believe that there is no different. And all in one say is that you’re human beings. And there’s blood in you. And I think everyone here should be united like it say, united, you know? One country. It’s many different color to be one. Not just White or Black or you know, Asian, or whatever it is. It’s all together. So— migrating to the U.S. is one of um, of many immigrant dreams. And I’m thankful for my dad for bringing me over. And I hope my kids are thankful that they’re born here, and realize that later too. That’s all I can say. Kaitlyn: Okay. Thank you! That was uh, that was, you said one short sentenceVictoria: Oh, sorry. �[Both laugh] Kaitlyn: No, I’m kidding. I’m just kidding, umVictoria: Well you have to combine that now because I’m not good with words. Kaitlyn: It’s okay. It’s okay. [Continues to laugh] Um, okay! Thank you for doing the interview. Love you! Victoria: Love you too. [hugging] Victoria: Thank you for having me. Kaitlyn: [Laughs] Okay, alright, that’s it! Nothing else right? Do you have anything else, or that’s it? [Laughs] Victoria: I don’t really have anything else. I’m just, I’m just grateful you asked me to interview and asked me, finally let my feelings out, andKaitlyn: Okay. Victoria: Telling you how I feel, you know. Kaitlyn: Yeah! Victoria: So thank you. Kaitlyn: That’s it then, alright. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kaitlyn Kim Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Victoria Truong Location The location of the interview Maryland, USA Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Victoria Truong Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaitlyn Kim Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 5, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource This interview between Victoria Truong and Kaitlyn Kim explore Truong’s personal experiences and perspectives on immigration, highlighting the adversity of leaving a communist country in search of a better life. Truong discussed her experiences as a Vietnamese refugee in the US throughout her childhood, young adulthood, and adult life. She shares stories about her family dynamics and her difficult upbringing due to her socioeconomic status. Her strong belief in freedom and opportunity explains her appreciativeness for America, and throughout the interview Truong reiterates how she is grateful for where she is today, despite all the hardships she has faced. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR400 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Colleen Woods of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, mp4, jpeg Asia communism escape family reunification fate Freedom language Opportunity parents refugee Vietnam https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/2911abbe4b8a3dd137ca610b90c78525.jpg?Expires=1779321600&Signature=Qj1MNoRkvixX5i95-SSBlPS9dlDbDcuHV12iVgMPpDenfN%7E7u3x9UUCqbypFKPifi1GpGhMOyk5V1wqfCpNXb801Jk7UO%7EMtQ2ryRBWX345pFMPWODmOulXdkl1fzmlQQ4iAaYXXjcXX8tDMJPTIQnTs%7ETfeDUrFtUFUW1FvB52WdKD8ymnnyqbmjMWO1oPQASJoIM9uflRFqUpJZEJayyNXcANNuU-pS6XCUxNtt%7EUYk6ZLgl9UA7lpAbLo5B4TFKpb2pLxRnsB54Hn4txq6VuIABQuPfKFif856SgIeacRqM6ROkImV2dZDclVf%7EgM3FLbnLSwGJSx3MSascfFBg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM cefcd371c62b14cf98872b14c7fe3065 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6145abb0ef4571701ad338961170b8a6.zip?Expires=1779321600&Signature=noWyIiG3xnC5u00uLHwLmyE%7Ervxv4GpCuEEwq4ivODbcBhfiLvqBiWj3D-et24tUBSadDTs1qG%7EN%7E69yp3C-35-kqeU8vztOghO%7EbmBGhtgmPIHhYPsSH1JUsowW7u4fcnii9TNFK%7EwUVUriPPCCg1y7mQD9lc3Us1SVLuKPYK0MeOXDmNO-7mn2JqVglJEBRK1uKoLOYlaIvHp3ygCGEfaUMV8pDpJ7OvTHRSBlDbvvm5K3BRiK6Gvc7ElwQpyngnlvP0QsxOrTvRXptGXSVjVgKBLJya1ci1VQ%7Ex0WZvgYEZI5QldynpRtsDX%7EErMX8c8LLDdQFOTXGHG8k-%7EZFg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 741b7e57b84b4ca5c2d6f6113c71a792 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/e0e984dcf15ed157a1aaa82eeb94c5d0.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=R7yZyB9dhMZRTSUgiHTIkcmLhglPiotUN4o7E9GqjebgUTfBo94454L6NuPjTclll8TYPp8f4QKfnRkejm20xGLzwCSP0LFVJ-SqOyyFKhG4THzNwRInQL238WrchUbVn4O2toBhj2BJMk79%7EpZeQa4S18JorjA6lOPqRvclnl04nszg1J4Kax7uMunfRKtLASDZL%7E84iSH8aS2uynhtEi%7EKbQbIK2lIof4d59Zj3SjSlInjrEyTZKF4achsiLok3MUhQRKiK9g0esLdlLcoFmvzYQ5VJyHdmjxy4YqNW4Xdz7gGfnsSjZRZh88DUem%7EWEfJx0xZ-hztYmTAqMG2ww__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 6e78ff158fc2675d7f728fc62bc2f0f6 PDF Text Text Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland HIST 428M – Spring 2021 Instructor: Dr. Anne Rush Interviewer’s name: Shelly Justement Interviewee’s name: Margot Naessan Interviewee’s Country of Origin: Norway Interviewee’s Current Residence: Fairfax, Virginia, Fairfax County, U.S.A. Date of Interview: March 1, 2021 Place of Interview: Rockville, Maryland, Montgomery County, U.S.A. This interview between Shelly Justement and Margot Naessan explores Margot’s life and her immigration to the United States from Norway in 1992. Margot was born in Telemark, Norway in 1967. In this interview, Margot discusses her family and childhood in Norway, her reason for moving to Maryland, her family and career, and her community of Norwegian friends in the United States. Margot’s interview focuses on cultural comparisons between Norway and the United States, and briefly touches on Vietnamese culture from her ex-husband’s family. Margot also discusses the impact that the COVID pandemic has had on her experience as an immigrant in the United States. Keywords: Norway, culture, COVID, Jante, food, language, national costume Shelly: Okay. So, uh I'm here with Margot Naessan. Um, I'm Shelly Justement. And it is March 1, 2021, and Margo is in Northern Virginia. So, what can you tell me about what your childhood in Norway was like? Margot: What it was like? Shelly: Mm-hm. Margot: Uh it was great. I have four siblings, um and we're a tight-knit family, so we were outside playing a lot, no video games at that time. One channel on TV. Um it was, we were just outside a lot, a lot of uh walks and hikes and skiing and very active. Shelly: Okay. Margot: Yeah. Shelly: Um so, you mentioned your siblings. Do you want to talk a little bit about your family? Margot: Yes. I love my family. [Laughs] Um yes, so I'm the oldest of five siblings. I have two sisters that are one and two years younger than me. And then I have a brother that is five years younger, and then another one that's nine years younger. Um and so, were [sighs] growing up, my brothers were very close, um and they were sort of younger, and uh I don't know. So, the— the sisters were staying together, and the brothers were staying together. Now, we all have, uh we communicate almost well, I'd say daily. My—one of my brothers is in Australia, so I talk to �him every week and the others I chat with uh daily, I would say. And so yeah, we keep in touch. And um uh my, let's see, let’s see what else? Hmm I don't know. We're—we're very close. Shelly: That's good. Um, so since your brother lives in Australia, do the rest of your siblings live in Norway, or in the US? Margot: Uh well, so my, all my siblings live in Norway, except for my one brother, and they're all living fairly close to each other over there, so they—but now thanks to COVID they don't see each other a whole lot. Actually. Not at all. Um but they are within uh 15, 20 minutes of each other, all of them. Yeah. Shelly: Um, so when you were younger and going to school in Norway, um sort of what was— what was school like? And um yeah, what was school like? Margot: Um, well, I—we moved a lot around. Um and so when I was—I started elementary school uh we were in this tiny mountain community uh up in the north, well, not all the way up north, but like, closer to the north than the south, uh of Norway. Um and it was very few students. My dad was the principal of the school. And um yeah, so we were maybe 10, 15 people in the class uh at most. And we had, let's see, 45 minutes of class and then we had like, 10 to 15 minutes outside. Everybody. Uh and that was like six times during the day, we were all outside. And regardless of the weather, we had to just get out there. And in the winter, we were uh skiing or going skating, um because we had one longer break after we ate, so we had half an hour or so. Um and in the summer, we play games with balls, we did like baseball ish, or softball, I guess, ish things and soccer and, yeah, so we had a lot of fun, a lot of outdoor stuff. And um yeah, I mean, and in school in Norway, when you're little, and I think it still is like that today, you don't get grades. Uh you don't get grades before you get to middle school. And I turned out okay, so I guess it's okay [laughs]. But um, so it's a different system over there, but it still, it still works. It's focused on play more than it—here, it's a lot of sports. Um that's very, very important. It's also important over there, but it's more for play than serious as it is here. So yeah. Shelly: Okay. So where was your school near mountains or an area where it was easy to ski during your break? Margot: Yes. Shelly: Okay. Margot: Yes. So yeah, I mean, because it was—we lived between a couple of mountains. So, I mean, we didn't ski—we did the cross-country skiing um when we went to school and I actually went, I used my cross-country skis, walking to school when it was the wintertime, it was the easiest way [laughs]. So yeah. Shelly: Wow. Margot: No bus or anything, just always walking. �Shelly: Um in school did you learn how to speak English? Or was that more in your home? Margot: Uh I, we all had to learn when we were 10 years old, uh which was I guess, fourth grade then. Now they start in first grade. But back then it was fourth grade. And so yeah, it's and, but we mainly read stuff, uh we don't really talk a whole lot. So, when I came here to the US, I, I was quite quiet, because I didn't feel like I could talk yet, so it took me a while. [laughs] Shelly: Mm-hm. Margot: Yeah. Shelly: Um, and so I guess jumping ahead a little bit. [laughs] Margot: Okay. Shelly: Um, when, around what year did you decide to the move to the US? Margot: So, well, my sister was here as an au pair. Uh that was, she came here in ‘90, I guess 1990. Um and then, so I decided to go and visit her uh uh in 1991. So that's when I came the very first time. Shelly: And do you want to speak a little bit about why you decided to stay in the US after you visited your sister? Margot: Yes, sure. Uh yes. So I came here and I, my sister was sick, she had gone through some difficult times. She was here as an au pair. And so I took her to see her doctor. Um and uh [sigh] he um was very charming. [laughs] And uh so he asked, actually asked us out and uh long story short, he ended up uh becoming my [laughs] husband, and the father of my two children. Um but yeah, so I mean, we had only a couple of days left uh here in the US before I actually got to take her home with me. Um but before then, we saw him a couple of times. Um and then I went back to Norway, and I stayed there for a year, came back and forth a couple of times to visit and then um he came over there to visit and then eventually after that one year, so in ‘92 I came here to stay. Shelly: Okay. Um and, so how did your family react to your decision to move and stay in the US? Margot: They thought it was sad, because they sort of lost me. Uh but at the same time, they said, as long as you're happy, that's all we want. So they were happy for me. Um so um yeah, but yeah, it was hard. It was hard, and it was hard for them, and it was hard for me, um because I left everybody, and I was young. And yeah, I was like 21. Um so yeah, that was, that was, it was hard, but they were they were okay with it. They said as long as you're happy, and I was. So yeah. Shelly: Yeah. Um, has anyone else in your family—so, when your sister was an Au Pair, was she planning to just stay in the US temporarily? �Margot: Yes, uh she was gonna stay here for a year. Um but she's, she was five months in Baltimore with a family that was uh uh mistreating her. Um so and then she moved to Bethesda. She was there for three months with a very nice family. Uh but then when I came, uh she had sort of repressed everything that had happened. Um and when I came that was familiar from home, she broke down, um. So, uh she ended her au pair contract early. She was not uh really allowed to or supposed to without losing a whole lot of money. Um but so, we went to her doctor, um and he wrote, which then became my husband after a while. Uh he wrote this note saying that she was ill and that she needed to go home and so that took care of everything. So, I got to take her home with me. Shelly: Okay. Um and have any of your other family members ever expressed a desire to want to live anywhere else besides Norway? Margot: Yeah, so just my brother. My other brother, my youngest brother, nine years younger, he went to Australia also actually for a year. He studied in Melbourne. Um my other brother, he lives in Australia, right in um Adelaide right now. But the others, they, um they all want to stay in Norway, and they all want me to come back to Norway [laughs] and live there. But yeah, no, it's just uh the three of us. But my, my youngest brother that came to Australia, he came here too and stayed with uh uh my ex-husband and myself for mm six months, I think, uh back in ‘96? Yeah. So, but then he had enough of travel, and he wanted to go back. So that's it. It's just two of us that are out. Out and about. Shelly: Mm-hm. Do you ever see yourself going back to Norway? Margot: My daughters would love that. [both laugh] Although, uh yeah, because both of them are there now. I think my youngest will come back uh here. That's her plan. Um but no, because I've actually been here my entire adult life. And I have my friends here that are like my family. It's not the same as family. But still, it's my family here. Um and I have yeah, my work. And I don't think I could start from scratch working in Norway, it's a different work atmosphere. I don't know what I would be doing. Um so it would be hard to move back. And I love actually living here. And I love, I have the best of both worlds because I can live here and I can call Norway home, but at the same time when I'm there I call the US home, so I have two homes. So, I'm very fortunate. Shelly: Mm-hm. Margot: Yeah. Shelly: Yeah. So, you're a dual citizen of both Norway and the US. Um, so do you want to talk a little bit about the actual immigration process and obtaining citizenship in the US? Margot: Right, I can. Uh right now I'm a uh just an immigrant and not a dual citizen. But as of January of 2020, last year, Norway finally allowed um dual citizenship. They hadn't before. I would lose my Norwegian citizenship if I applied to become an American, and I didn't want that because having a European passport is gold. So, I, [laughs] I decided um that I wanted to wait �because I knew it was coming, and then finally January of last year, uh they decided, okay, I can keep my Norwegian citizenship. So now, then I wanted to apply and then COVID happened. And apparently [laughs], the immigration system is now really slow. It was slow already [laughs], but now it's slower. So, but I am going to apply to become an U, a US citizen because I live here. I love this country. And I do feel I belong here. So, and now I can have can have the best of both worlds legally. So that's good. I mean, I'm here legally anyways, [both laugh] but no that didn't sound good [laughs]. But yeah, I'm a resident, I’m a legal resident, so yeah. But yeah, I want to do that little extra step. And the yeah, the immigration process is generally um, for me now after I married, uh it's uh has its I just go and renew my green card every 10 years, and it's just a matter of, you know, paying them some money and fingerprints, a new picture and, and that's it, so it's not a big deal. Yeah. Shelly: Okay. So, um, when you first moved to the US, how long after—or did you marry before? Sort of when was, what time did you marry around? Margot: Yes. Okay. Shelly: After you came. Margot: So, well I came to live here in ‘92. Um and then uh I, I had to either get married or go back to Norway, because I'm not allowed to stay here, uh you know, after a certain time. So, I was going back and forth a little, but in ‘93, which actually, my family doesn't know. I did get married at the [laughs] at the courthouse. Oh, it's okay. Uh that it's not, it's not a secret. But I got married at the courthouse and we were actually going to have a wedding ceremony that year, but my father became ill. So, we decided to have it in ‘94 instead, so that's our official like wedding date is in ‘94. But in ‘93, we actually got married. I think it was in January of ‘93. And that's I think the date that says also on my green card, that I was like legal to stay here. So before then I was just a visitor. Shelly: Okay. Margot: Yeah. Shelly: Were you, did you ever see yourself living in the US prior to meeting your husband? Margot: Um, not really. I mean, I was always curious about the US because I mean, you see, uh see movies, and it looked very cool. So, I wanted to visit. And so, I was super excited to go and visit my sister. But I did not at all plan on or think that I would stay here. That was not in my plan. But yeah, it happened. Shelly: Mm-hm. Margot: Yeah. [laughs] Shelly: Um do you wanna speak a little bit more about what you thought of the US before you came? �Margot: Yes. So um, my impression of the United States w—was basically through movies. Um. I loved going to the movies, and I [laughs] really liked commercials like bubblegum commercials. And I was like, oh my gosh, it looks so cool in the US, and it's always, the sun is always shining, and it looks so nice. [laughs] Um but yeah, and I, I don't, I mean, I read some books and but I’m not like a history buff, so I was not into history as much. But I was uh interested, I'm very interested in culture, very interested in languages. Um and even though I didn't think my English was good, I think it was better than most people in my class, because I always liked languages, so I was always intrigued by the English language and the culture and, and I, I liked the pop culture, I like the um uh I thought, you know, I saw um, what do you call it? Um. Now I have it all in Norwegian in my head, because I'm like, regressing here. But I saw, you know, pictures or, or like, oh, foods, and I was like, oh, wow, they have burgers, they have like several layers of like, stuff that looks so [laughs] interesting and great. And everything is bigger over there, and, like here. And I just thought it looked really cool, and uh different from Norway. Everything is so small um compared to here. Uh food. Um. Well, yeah, I get back to food, I enjoy food [laughs]. But yeah, food, culture, language. I'm all, I'm interested in all of that. Shelly: Um, so how did language play a part in your immigration experience, besides the fact that at first you were a little shy to speak English? Margot: Um, well, I was really worried uh when, when uh Robert and I, my ex-husband, decided to get married. Um and he proposed and all of that. Um I heard, you know, that we had to go to the immigration. And I was so scared of talking and opening my mouth because I didn't know what to say. And then Robert was like, don't worry, I'll take care of it. And I'm like, I have to say something too you know. Um but I got there, and you know, people were friendly, they were nice and asked me questions, and I managed to I mean, it was, I mean I was sweating, I think and I was nervous for days before. [both laugh] But, but it was okay. I mean, people were generally nice. And that's what I see, that's since day one, since I've come to this country, people are always like, hi, how are you? So friendly. People are not like that in Norway, even people are nice, but they're very much more reserved than here. So, I really like that aspect of the US that people are welcoming, I feel. Shelly: Very nice. Um, earlier, you had talked about the community you've created with your friends? Margot: Mm-hm. Shelly: Um, are any of those friends from Norway also? Margot: I would say that 99% of them [laughs] are. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I came here, I felt alone. Not necessarily lonely, um there's a difference, I guess. But I felt alone for a long time um because I left my family. I didn't have any friends. Um I couldn't work in the beginning. Um I started working after I got married. Um. But in the beginning, I didn't really have any friends for a long time. So, I went into work where my husband was working at his medical clinic. Um and I sort of became friends with the nurse, and the receptionist, but that wasn't uh. Yeah, it wasn't like friends friends. So, I don't know. Um. Yeah, it took me a while to really get to know �anybody, so. Uh but when I then heard about this Norwegian group of women, um I was intrigued, and I got in touch with them. And I haven't looked back. I mean, it's, it's because we have so much in common, we have, we identify with, with each other, we all have a story, we all um you know, we have our language, our culture, we have so many similarities. So instantly, I felt at home here, even though I hadn't really felt at home for a good while. And then finally, things fit into place. And I, I felt like, okay, I'm good here now. Shelly: Okay. So does this Norwegian women's group, do you all do things that celebrate Norwegian culture and heritage? Margot: Absolutely. So yes, um I've been part of this group, since Isabella [her daughter] was born, uh that's when I heard about it. And so, every year, um I've been on the board three times uh as a secretary, because I like to write. Um and we plan two major events every year. One is our 17th of May uh celebration, which is our Constitution Day, uh where we can actually uh invite men. Um otherwise, forget men, it's all women [laughs]. So, we do that 17th, around the 17th of May, and it's a big celebration with uh we have speeches, we have songs, we like to sing a lot. And then we eat, and everybody brings traditional dishes. So, it's huge. Uh and we all look forward to it, we wear our, I have a national costume that I that I wear. Um and so that's quite special. Um it's actually, national costumes in Norway are really expensive, uh mine is like $4,000. So, I don't wear it a whole lot. But I wear it then. The other occasion that we have is Christmas, um which is also huge in Norway. And we have uh special dishes that we only eat for Christmas. And we all bring that, no men allowed this time. And uh we yeah, we have our traditional clothing, traditional food. Um otherwise, other than that we just get together once a month. Uh well, not now, um these days, but generally otherwise, when it's not COVID we get together. Um and we um we exchange recipes, we exchange, you know, Norwegian stories and just we just keeping our culture alive, I guess. Shelly: Very nice. So, um can you describe what the national costume is like? Margot: Yes, uh my national costume is uh a huge wool uh has like a big uh skirt. Um black with some embroideries in all over the place, uh. It's very, very warm. Um it has a vest that is also embroidered and then it has like jewelry uh in the front that's, that's the most expensive part. Um it's very um traditional, um I don't know how to describe it. But it's, and I have a white shirt inside the vest. Um and each region in Norway has a different national costume as they call it. And so mine is from Telemark because I was born in Telemark. Um. And so yeah, mine is from there. Yeah. Shelly: Do the costumes symbolize anything? Margot: That's a very good question. And they might. Um actually, I don't know, but they might. That's a good question. I will have to find that out. Yeah. Shelly: Okay. Margot: Yeah. [both laugh] �Shelly: Um, so when you first came to the United States, where did you live? What area? Margot: So, when I first came, uh I moved to this house, it was a farm out on River Road in Potomac [Maryland] because um Robert, at that time had horses, actually he still does. Um and so we had horses there. Um so it was like, sort of into the, far into the country, like way out River Road. Um and yeah, so it, but it was a beautiful area. Shelly: Um what kind of jobs have you had while living in the United States? Margot: I've had two jobs, um and one was uh, I became the office manager for Robert’s uh medical clinic. Um so I did all the invoicing, I did all the payrolls, um invoicing, ordered supplies, uh you know, whatever an office manager does. So that was my first job. And then I had two little babies, uh and I took a break. Um but so when they were little and started school, I went to school a lot and I volunteered there. Um I went there every week to help out. But then I got the job that I have now, uh which is working for an architect um out here in Virginia, which I love. So, I'm happy about my job, I just do some design work for him. It's a small firm, so it's mainly the architect, his wife, she's the office manager, and then it's me, who does all the design and all of uh you know, the interior design, and plus I do, I also do some invoicing and little office stuff, too. So yeah, it's fun. Shelly: Mm-hm. Um, would you like to talk about your daughters, Isabella and Alexandra, and how you maybe passed on some Norwegian heritage to them? Margot: Absolutely. My two daughters, they're now, Isabella is uh 23 and Alexandra's 21. Um and from day one, I decided I wanted to learn and teach them Norwegian, uh because it's such a strong culture in me, and I wanted them to have the opportunity to speak with their grandparents. Because not everybody in Norway, now the younger generation, yes, everybody speaks Norwegian [English]. But the older generation, not necessarily. [clears throat] So my father, for instance, didn't speak much uh Norwegian [she means English], so I wanted them to speak to him. Um. So, but it's very natural for little kids to not want to speak the language that nobody else speaks. So, I had to be very strict with them. I'm not a super strict person, but with my girls, I was strict in the language sense, and I told them that if, because they started uh answering me in English, when I uh spoke to them in Norwegian. And then I said, girls, if you speak to me in English, I'm not going to talk to you. You need to speak to me in Norwegian. And they're like, oh, okay, and so they did! And but I had to remind them again and again. But as they um got a little bigger, it was easier because they talk to each other in Norwegian whenever I was around, and I was always around. So, it became easier and easier. It was hard in the beginning, but then it was easier and easier. And so yeah, I and I fed them Norwegian food, and I took them to Norway every single year since they were born. And so they're very much immersed in the Norwegian culture. Shelly: Right, yeah, both of them are now living in Norway. Margot: Both of— Shelly: Um. Yeah. So how do you feel about that? �Margot: Oh, my gosh. Well, you know, [sigh] it's it um, first of all, I'm super happy that they are together, because I know that they've missed each other so much. Um they were apart for quite a while um much thanks to COVID. Um. Um for me, I know I don't own my children, so whatever they want to do in this world, they need to do it. They need to go out and live their lives. I would love to have them closer. Um I don't know if that's going to happen with Isabella um because I mean, she's engaged to a Norwegian. And she has a dog. [laughs] Um Alexandra, I know she's planning on coming back. Um I don't know what happens if she meets a Norwegian guy, for instance, uh if she I mean, it's a possibility that she would stay. It would be—I mean, I miss them terribly. Um because I mean, we're very, very close. So, it would be hard in a way but at the same time, if they are happy that’s all that matters. It's pretty, I'm pretty much like my parents, if my girls are happy, uh just like my parents said to me, if I'm happy, that's all that matters. Shelly: Okay. Um and so how do you think you have combined some US culture and some Norwegian culture amongst the three of you? Is there a way that you've done that? Margot: Um, huh, good question. I mean, we, we lived here, have lived here in the US um. And so, it's been important not just to show them, of course, the Norwegian culture, because I'm Norwegian. Uh, I've taken them around uh with their dad a lot to like Disney World, and, you know, all American traditional things that you do. Um or not everybody does not, not everybody can, of course, but we've been fortunate to be able to travel several places, um here in USA, US and that's a very good way to, to um get to know a country and, um but I was, I never really talked much English to my girls, it’s always been Norwegian. Now. And also, that was also when uh they had friends over when they were younger, I always spoke because I wanted to maintain that Norwegian. Now that they've gotten this big, I finally feel I could speak English to them, and they won't lose their Norwegian so it's okay. But to combine the two for a while it was strictly Norwegian, and the American part was just, you know, showing them America, and foods, we're very much into foods and trying new things and I’ve gone to Florida quite a while, quite a lot with the girls, and we just, yeah, love to be together and explore different areas of the country. Shelly: Yeah. Um this may be sort of difficult, but it's, do you think there's a way to maybe compare and contrast Norwegian foods and American foods? Margot: Yes. Let's see. Um Norwegian food, as I as I mentioned a little bit earlier, is uh everything is in a much [laughs] smaller scale. Um you come to a restaurant and, well, not necessarily a restaurant either. But yeah, everything is in a smaller on a smaller scale. Here, everything is so huge. Um and I, well, when I first came here, I was a little disappointed because my sister said, let's go and have a burger. Um and we went, and I, I didn't, I didn't find it that it tasted much. Um it was sort of tasteless, maybe we went to the wrong place. But in Norway, it's, it's even though salt and pepper were like the main spices for a long time, now we have Indian, we have Thai, we have Vietnamese food, we have like all kinds of fusion stuff going on. But for a while, salt and pepper was it, but and it was pretty much up until I came here. But I came here, and I was like, I was not too impressed about American foods. Um but now, of course, I've been around, uh, I've been to so many places, and I um yeah, I think Norwegian food is pretty amazing. Um and I love, for me being sort of more multicultural, I love the fusion ex—aspects of �what you can get here with the different mixes into the American cuisine so that it's more of a mix than just plain this or plain that, I like yeah, the fusion part. But um, and but you also do have that more in Norway now. It's becoming more assimilated, it's more similar. Norway and the US, it's more similar in food wise than it was like when I first came here, for sure. Shelly: Okay. So, another sort of compare and contrast um that I'm interested in asking you about is what you think of politics in Norway versus politics in the United States. Margot: Yes. Charged subject. [both laugh] Uh now, uh in Norway, we have a different political system. We have several parties. Um we have the Green Party, we have the Worker Party, we have the uh the right but the right-wing party is sort of more like the Democrats here so it's not like super right. Uh and then we have another one right. And so, I never got into I mean, it's complicated over in Norway, it's more simple here with like two parties, or an independent, so maybe three. Um but in what I, what I see here is that um, they throw dirt on each other here in the election process a lot. They don't do that to the same extent over Norway. Uh that's not what's important, they actually focus on the, you know, what's important, what they're trying to say, as opposed to here, they're attacking each other more, um and trying to find dirt, and this person did that and yeah, all of that. But, um, yeah. So. [sigh] But I've actually never voted here in the US, um I would have if I could, but so that's another reason why now I'm sort of, sorry. Getting off topic. But yeah, it's [laughs] it's, it's different. Yeah, several parties in Norway and just a couple here, and I think they're a little bit more clean over in Norway, you know, in the process of voting, but their getting to be a little influenced over there uh of things that are happening here as well, um so it's interesting to see. Shelly: All right. Uh, I guess, maybe a little bit of a less charged subject, [both laugh] so your exhusband was, he is an immigrant as well. Margot: Yes. Shelly: Um and can you tell me a little bit about what it was like raising children in the US when both of you were not originally from the US? Margot: Mm-hm. Yes. So, because he was originally born in Vietnam, uh he came here when he was 15, so I mean, and he was naturalized so he became an American citizen. But he had, he comes from a large family, he has very strong ties to his Vietnamese culture. So, we um, we had a household that was split. Not split, that doesn't sound good. That was a mix of Vietnamese and Norwegian culture. Um and his mom lived with us for 10 years. Um and so, we got uh some amazing food that we cooked uh together. And, yeah, so food is very important in the [both laugh] Vietnamese culture, and also in the Norwegian, I guess, also American culture. Um but so yeah, we had a mix of the two. So, whatever, whenever there was a Norwegian uh cause for celebration, uh one of our big days, we celebrated that. Whenever there was um Vietnamese tradition, uh which is uh, in his family rooted a lot in Buddhism, um, then we celebrated that and we all have Vietnamese outfits, um and we all dress up, and we all eat special food. And so, it's, it's great to have been able to [clears throat] to have both the Vietnamese, the Norwegian, and the American culture. �Shelly: Mm-hm. Margot: Mm-hm. Shelly: [laughs] Um have you noticed any very stark differences in culture between Vietnamese culture and Norwegian culture? Margot: Vietnamese and Norwegian? Shelly: Mm-hm. Margot: Yes. Uh and one thing, um, [pause] let's see, if uh I'm like trailing here now. But um in uh my, as they, they had—now I’m starting to speak Norwegian in my head here. [Shelly laughs] They have this matriarch system, uh where uh Robert’s mom, she was the boss of the family. And the el— you, the el—older you are, the more um you have uh a say in things. So, when I came here, uh when I was 21, I was pretty much the youngest within Robert’s family because he's one of the youngest siblings, so everybody were older than me, so I was at the bottom of the totem pole. So I, so it was hard in the beginning because um, I, you know, I was like, thrown into the kitchen. I had to do the dishes, whereas the others they could relax and just wait for me to finish or wait for me to finish cooking and with them my mother-in-law, um because it's, that's just part of the culture. I come from a culture where everybody's the same, you are equal to everybody. Um so uh that was new to me and uh not cool, I thought. [both laugh] Uh it was hard. But at the same time, I do really admire how they take care of their elders and how they value the elders. It's not the same here in the US, or in Norway. People are put in homes. People are, oh, no, they're too old to, to, I mean, here, uh in the Vietnamese countr—culture, they take the elders in, and they take care of them until they can, they're no longer walking on this earth. So, I, in that sense, I think it's pretty amazing. Shelly: Mm-hm. Um, and do you think that your daughters ended up inheriting more of, more of one culture than the other, or do you think it was more balanced? Margot: Um I definitely think the Vietnamese culture was more uh, it was fun, and it was the um little parties that we had, but that’s more in the background. It’s a split between the American and the Norwegian culture, for sure. Because they lived here. Um and all their friends were uh were American. And I had a very strong Norwegian influence on them. Mainly I think, but it’s interesting because I have, Isabella since she was very little, she said, mama, I want to go to Norway. I want to live in Norway. I said, because she said, it’s always dessert there. [both laugh] But I said, that’s because we’re on vacation. And she’s like, no, but it’s so great I love Norway. And then she ended up going there and living there, whereas Alexandra, she never said that, she said, no I love the US. I want to stay here. I want to visit, but then I want to come back. And that’s, that might be what happens, you know, eventually that Alexandra might come back here because she’s more drawn to the US than Isabella is, she’s more drawn to Norway. Yeah and they had the same upbringing, so I don’t know why that happened. [both laugh] Yeah. Shelly: Um do your daughters and your family in Norway have a very close relationship? Since you visited every summer? �Margot: Yes. Yes. They have cousins over there. Uh, they’re, um they have two girl cousins that are 1 and 2 years older. Um and then they have younger uh boys, boy cousins and one girl, but they’re sort of younger younger again, so. But yeah, they’re all close and they’ve all spent every summer together and every other Christmas for a long time, so yeah. They’re close. Yeah. Shelly: That’s good. Um so and do your daughters have, your daughters are US citizens, but are they also Norwegian citizens? Margot: Yes. Because uh it’s different rules for kids. So, because they were born here, they’re naturally American citizens, but because I’m uh as a mom Norwegian citizen, they automatically became Norwegian citizens. Whereas, but they lose the citizenship uh if they don’t spend some time in Norway for a while. Like Isabella, she’s now naturalized, she’s now dual. Um but Alexandra, she will lose her citizenship uh by the age of 21 uh in the summer when her birthday is unless they say that, no, okay you’re living here now, we’re gonna let you keep it. So, it’s a gamble for her, we’ll see how that goes. Um but they have requirements of you have to live there for at least a year, but I think she’s planning on probably staying there for about a year um. Unless something happens, I don’t know when she’ll come back. But, um yeah, so, we’ll see. Shelly: How long has um Isabella been in Norway? Living in Norway. Margot: She’s been there since, I think she moved there like right after high school, so she was what, 19? Is that right? Like so 4 years maybe. 4 or 5? 4 ish. 4 and a half how about that? Shelly: Okay. [both laugh] Margot: Yeah. Shelly: Has it been an interesting dynamic um going to Norway to visit her? Margot: Yes. Shelly: While she’s been living there? Margot: Yes, it is interesting because when I go now, she’s my guide. We go to Oslo and she’s been taking Alexandra and me around. I guess Alexandra will do the same thing now. Because I feel, I’m not connected to Norway the same way anymore as I used to be since I live here. I feel she is the local now, she is the Norwegian now, she’s taking me around and showing me everything because, yeah, so, the dynamic has changed. She’s the Norwegian one, I’m just visiting. [both laugh] Shelly: Um and so we talked earlier a little bit about what you thought of the US before you came. Um there’s this very sort of big idea of the American Dream. Um. Have you felt that in your life while you’ve been living in the US or prior to? �Margot: Absolutely. Because here I feel it’s the land of opportunities. In Norway we have an unwritten law that is uh it’s called the Jante Law, J-A-N-T-E. Um and it has several unwritten rules uh one of them is, don’t think that you’re better than anybody else. Don’t think that you uh should try to do some—uh you’re basically you’re not encouraged to be different. You’re not encouraged to try to achieve something great because people look down on you. Everybody’s supposed to be the same. Whereas here, you come here, and you do something you actually get rewarded for it. It’s like, oh good for you, you did, you did that? That’s great. You don’t get that in Norway. People are better about it now, but they still have that ingrained in them, that don’t even think, don’t try to like step uh up and become something because nu-uh it’s frowned upon. So, it’s yeah, it’s definitely, I feel, in that sense, I love living here because I feel like I can, I’m rewarded, if I do something great, then it should be rewarded. I mean you should be um not like rewarded, but it, it, it should be a good thing. So, and I do love that. Yeah. Shelly: Does your family that lives in Norway feel the same way that you do about that? Margot: Yes. They do because [laughs] I’ve come home so many times and I’ve told them, you know, this is how it is here, and you know you should be a little bit more like what it is in the US and they’re like, yeah we agree. I mean they see it. But you know they live there, and they’re so used to it and so their mindset is a little different. It’s just they, they adapt, I guess. But yeah, they see it. Shelly: Mm-hm. Margot: Mm-hm. Shelly: Um do you have any, sort of crowing achievements that you can think of that in the US you’ve gotten to celebrate in that way? Margot: Um well I’ve, yeah, I think yeah, my job for instance, um which is um. When I started my job where I am now, I started doing filing. I started at the bottom level. I, you know I had, you know I worked as an office manager at my previous job, but I came in and they basically just needed someone to organize their office. It was a huge mess. It was drawings, architectural drawings everywhere. My boss couldn’t find anything, he was like, oh, you need to help me. I’m like, yes, I’m super organized. Let me do it. And I organized everything. And I had no idea how to use Excel, so I taught my—I went through tutorials and I’m now very sufficient in using [both laughing] Excel. I put everything on Excel on where everything was in the office. Every single drawing that we had in the office. I organized everything and then my boss said, hmm looks like uh maybe you could uh do something else for us, because then you know, no more filing right? I did all of it. So, I was like, yeah, yeah I’m ready to do whatever, and he’s like, hmm can you do our permit process, can you get all our permits? Because they were using a permit agency to get all the building permits. For every project that we have, we have to have a building permit. And he was not happy with the service that he was using and I’m like, yeah, yeah sure. And, I gotta say, I love that part of the job because I, well now it’s all online, but back then, before COVID, before COVID, um I got to go to different jurisdictions, talk to different people, and show them architectural drawings, saying, this is what we’re doing. You need to approve this �for us. And I started to learn what the different jurisdictions required. And, and then I got positive feedback from them saying, oh it’s you, it’s so great because you’re always prepared, and I’m like, yeah! [both laugh] So, uh so I got really good at that. Um and then, we had uh um an interior designer um that worked for us and one day she’s like, I think I need to go and do something else, and she just left. And then my boss was again like, oh no! What are we gonna—Margot? [both laugh] he turned around and looked at me, do you think that you could,” you know and I’m like, “sure boss. Yes, I can do it.” And I had actually, you know, I was working with our designer when she was there, and I was observing what she was doing. I did not um, oh what do you say? Well, yeah, I did not do her job then, but I was helping her. She was always asking me, “what do you think about this color? What do you think about this scheme?” And I always had an opinion because I always, I have an instinct for what looks good and what doesn’t, and she’s like “oh, that’s what I first thought!” And I said, “always go with your instinct.” So, okay, anyways. Um so, I started doing design work uh and meeting with our clients, and showing them carpet books, and uh paint samples, and surface for their kitchen, backsplash, and I love it! It’s so much fun. And I get all these positive feedback from everybody saying, “oh, we love our new office, we’re so happy, thank you so much,” you know? So, yes, when I come, both from my boss and from th- our clients, I get a lot of positive feedback and that makes me really, really happy, so, so yeah. So, and I- it would not be exactly the same in Norway. It would be much more subdued, and people would be grateful, but it’s just different over here. So, here, yes, I love all the positive feedback. Shelly: Mhm. Margot: Yeah. [laughs] Shelly: Uh, and, so switching gears a little bit, how do you think COVID has impacted, maybe not even necessarily your experience as an immigrant, but just your experience living in the US period? Margot: Um, I- I mean, I see how my, how my native country is handling the crisis compared to here. Um, and, [sighs] so, so it’s hard because they’re much better at handling it over there. They’re actually shutting down when they need to shut down. And they’re getting it under control, their cases are so much lower. Um but at the same time I feel we’re all responsible for ourselves. Obviously, we’re responsible for you know people around us, but we can only do so much. So, I’m thinking if I do my share, that’s all I can do. I can’t tell anybody else to say- you know, what they need to do. If I’m careful, then I’m careful for myself and for everybody around and, and that’s all I can do really. But yeah, no I mean it’s hard because it’s a big country, and it’s a lot of people, and it’s a lot of different opinions. And here, you see a lot of conspiracy theories also, which doesn’t make it easier. And people are scared of vaccines, they’re scared of this, they don’t want to do that, and they don’t wanna wear a mask, they can’t breathe, um they have all kinds of opinions, and but I see that I, you know, I just have to do my share and that’s, that’s all I can do, so yeah. And so, I’m not feeling like oh, I should run to Norway [Shelly chuckles] because it’s better over there. I’m happy here and I’m doing my share here, and that’s all I can do. �Shelly: Mhm. Margot: Yeah. Shelly: Is there um anything else at all that you would like to talk about, about any point in your life? Margot: [both laugh] Oh yeah, do you have an hour? No, just kidding. Shelly: [laughs] Margot: [both laughing] Um. Hmm. I don’t know, uh, are you, you, you have no more questions for me? Shelly: No, I’m, [laughs] I’m done. Margot: Okay, well I’m very impressed uh at your questioning skills and uh your flow. I’m very impressed, I have to say. Shelly: [laughs] Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I learned a lot, this was a very nice interview. Thank you for agreeing to do it. Margot: Absolutely! Thank you, Shelly, it was good to see you. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2021 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Shelly Justement Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Margot Naessan Location The location of the interview Rockville, MD Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Margot Naessan Description An account of the resource The video of this interview can be found <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vE49GqssXU">here</a>. <br /><br />This interview between Shelly Justement and Margot Naessan explores Margot’s life and her immigration to the United States from Norway in 1992. Margot was born in Telemark, Norway in 1967. In this interview, Margot discusses her family and childhood in Norway, her reason for moving to Maryland, her family and career, and her community of Norwegian friends in the United States. Margot’s interview focuses on cultural comparisons between Norway and the United States, and briefly touches on Vietnamese culture from her ex-husband’s family. Margot also discusses the impact that the COVID pandemic has had on her experience as an immigrant in the United States. <br /><br />This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2021). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Shelly Justement Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 1, 2021 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource pdf, m4a Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Children culture food language marriage Norway https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6829b79f89b459ee9e1010e658e83a7e.png?Expires=1779321600&Signature=DN9jGjLD%7EQ8wJVaqUrSMsognp%7Erec4o7%7ECH0NlN6Red2VhSw-V7l7XfICIm7v8WjU0dUs1Kuf67tyJ99uLgHgm-qdI3Zb7bKKDIfnCG1sUCAdGj2olpWN-34BXrUt7Et88u%7ERdWZ21DsoY99eoHDFvPppJX4Ebf2LzXdWb5xFPAtqnd374pwfU4Yaun88dMfoWcwBuels7rC3B%7EwuUcCsCDbUESSYIkpyAY3FwJWAt2RHy8d1bgtg7RZCIm%7ETLXgteg17XMVY0Dc5zUcyD2pK3efLDjc2SQfaescQyY8cVcny1bZhmzLFjV2OPmGoqKRw--Nmz6XxpFheOPvVRiqqg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/f7a6274b6a1a29a6ee9ba75e20f34831.mp4?Expires=1779321600&Signature=MQqeSJL-N5e5gC-iQqBvXdugQ3-aUNm2TCU8UIIelJ30oMPH27cWwe1l6LIXucrld8a58MRE4xMzX51VkfqVRxPjws06o-d7bTfM0-epmzsXVIfYdoNJav5yLNwnC2NR3H4BnoAR64%7EfHRWs1ORWoBPAgrjk3JNHzzzTN6TCC%7EpnG2r5FEOs1S58gyvqw-V4m7X9uPftfU5f4bhJHz7sQGDhDpqPK2nsp8F3JjK-9GvUz2NQs8B0lKJoDYPAo31k9iJlFXWW0XWyMFVDBoqHpThQ3tXl2O%7EME0N%7EeIKK5EK6r9k1imhKYn2BNU1jnFjCmhzjcuuyUZijuGsZ00WmQw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM db5e11d1f53b9e3b9cc9506c95f58b8c https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b563224e7cb3596dac001089046ed20e.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=sV-hZUwuy4ju11lmQTDF13E3Psj7KKgyuiZCVxFeAVSY1TcikeITmEtgrBD3yLRvb1VpuAKE9FCOHPeXgP-rSbgoX0em%7Ed0GYbuuky-qvWysvbAF5KpgbiesCbiBONRgBZc5XHRXD2xQEpXEcsxgT4tFd-yrKnHfN-UBdBatixAH1wVUWLHaZl2zwTBkalXF39yeqLAp9eBYsk%7EDqha9XXA0zy1eOZ1tLLWjWvW9BnccBIBpYMOqdtJIWqakpYFhlJlp2eQEpefo3xXAyO2NFmA7IRrwdIYFTzuFaIph7Bjqq-kSYTU-JYGrELJEmVqnapmqGJTqGFJelEgzh8qHOg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM d60fee254a710facb8f85f7633392f03 PDF Text Text Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course IMMR400 — Spring 2020 Instructor: Dr. Robert Chiles Interviewer’s name: Abel Dereje Interviewee’s name: Tegest Kebede Interviewee’s Country of Origin: Ethiopia Introduction: This is an interview with Tegest Kebede conducted by Abel Dereje. In this interview, Tegest describes living in Ethiopia as a child and her personal experiences with the Derg, the military junta that ruled the country from 1974 to 1991. Tegest also speaks about her education in Ethiopia, the ways that her family helped her move to the United States, and how she learned English. Key Words: Ethiopia, Derg, school, politics, religion, language, family, visa Abel: Hi, I'm Abel Dereje and this is my mother, Tegest Kebede. Tegest: Hi. Abel: Um so, mom, I'm going to be interviewing you on uh your experiences of coming from Ethiopia to America. Tegest: Okay. Abel: Uh, so first of all, what kinds of things did you hear about America growing up? Tegest: Oh yeah, um I heard a lot of good things. Um, so um, my two—my aunt—my aunt’s two daughters and one of her son lived here, and they live a good life. Um I’m seeing picture but, uh you know, it was nice and I really wanted to come here after I finish my school. Abel: Okay. Uh, did you already—oh, well so you already had family in America, uh and did uh they help you out when you were here? Tegest: Yes, they help me. Uh, even to come [to the US] they help me. Abel: Okay. Tegest: Yeah, they pay my ticket, they—they help me with the process to come here. Yeah. �Abel: Okay. Um and were you allowed to practice your religion when you were in Ethiopia without any problems? Tegest: Yes. Abel: Okay. Tegest: But the—the only problem is um we can’t—um, we don’t have to be in trouble like in the politics [tried not to get in trouble for political reasons]. Other than that, all Ethiopian people, most of them, are Christian. We can practice our religion. Abel: Okay. Well, that's good. Ah, well, so um going more about the Derg, did they take away anything from your family while, uh, while you were there? Tegest: Yes, they did. So, um my—my father was uh working. He used to work in the bank. Uh, the—the bank director was, uh, he was—I was a kid, I don’t know what’s going on, but um he was in jail. Because of that, my father was out of the job, and then the Derg took uh my, um, my grandparents’ land, um. And um they took my father's house too because he's out of the job. So, so much—so much change happened to me especially. Abel: Wow. Tegest: Yeah. Abel: Okay um. And uh so when—how was your family doing more like financially when the Derg were around? Like, you know, how were you guys? Tegest: So, um, so what uh—after the—the everything gone, my father lost job and um we were devastated. So, we don’t have any support, and because of all that my dad has left, left the town, and we don’t know where he was. So, we was—my mom was struggling a lot. I was the only kid at the time, and um. So, uh my dad’s family uh was [doing] better. They have uh, you know, they were rich, I mean not rich-rich, but they have that better than my mom, so um my mom asked for help. So, what she can do, maybe if they can help me and my aunt said, you know, “If you don’t mind, uh can she stay with me.” So, she have her own like one—three kids, so I was went there and I was the fourth kid and um it was okay for a moment, but at the time, until I get to middle school, so. It was okay, sometimes I go visit my mom, my mom was always struggling, and in the middle uh she marry—she marry to my, um, my stepdad, so she have—she started another family after that. Abel: Okay. Wow. Um, well, so, when you were uh—while you were growing up and, you know, aside from what the Derg were doing to you, were you witnessing other bad things that were happening to people while you were there? Tegest: Yeah, just so many things happening. Um my aunt, always um she’s like, uh, she’s so afraid and everything, so she was always telling us, “If anybody go to jail, I’m not going to bring �you anything. You’re going to be starving to death and I don’t want any kids to be in trouble in this house!” (Abel laughing sounding shocked) Uh, you know, I don’t know much but—but outside it’s happening, there’s teenager, kids, and this—this like under-twenty-years-old kids they get to jail and they [the Derg] just get to somebody’s house in the middle of the night, grabbing them, put them in jail, and by—by two days, after three days, they kill them. And then it was too much trouble. And then even one time um me and my aunt’s family, all of us, we try—we went to go—it was a holiday, we trying to go out of—out of town. It was like around four o’clock in the morning, and we saw someone is dead on the ground and my aunt get out of the car and start crying and screaming and her husband is like trying to pull her to back to the car. But (sighs) it was traumatize life. And I'll never forget. So, I—I was sick of that. But, I mean, I know it’s passed now. Abel: I'm sorry to hear that. Um, okay. So obviously there was no lack—or there was no um free speech um when you were growing up there. Uh so how did this affect, Ethiopia or, you know, even just people from your experiences? Tegest: Yes. Um, it effect um Ethiopian people still—I think still now. There is [was] no freedom of speech. If someone said something about Derg, about, uh, about anything about the economy, you can’t ask any kind of question, anything, even uh sometimes uh people are jail if you, you know, ask any kind of question in front of police anything. You know, you got to jail yourself. After that, nobody can see you. I don’t know what they do to them sometimes. So, what I remember, um, it was like too much. Abel: Okay. Okay. Um so, on a different note how was your education, you know, while you were growing up when the Derg were there? Uh, would you send us to school in Ethiopia? Your children. Tegest: Uh, no, not at that time, I don’t think there’s nobody to go to Ethiopian school. Um, to know the culture, yes. But to educate, uh even for myself, um I had a poor education, you know? There is no—right now there is computer and everything, but back—back then, no, there is no help. You just someone—you know? It’s not good in general. Abel: Okay. Tegest: It wasn’t good. Abel: So, uh what like there was—how was the teachers, like did they—were they helping you even inside and outside of the classroom? Or, yeah. Tegest: Not outside. But inside, um you know, they’ll just try to teach us. There is uh—uh, you know, well-educated teachers, and then the [other] teacher doesn’t have enough education, and then he can’t even help us. Just they do whatever they want. I mean, (Abel: “Wow”) it was very hard. Abel: So, some are educated and some were not, but they just became teachers. �Tegest: Not really. They just being teacher and then get—get, you know, salary. Abel: Oh wow, okay. Tegest: That's all, they don’t—they’re a not experienced teacher. Abel: And you guys, did you have textbooks and other things like that? Tegest: No, not much there, we don’t. I mean um sometimes—the only thing I remember, we have English book, and then if I have that book, it’s not—I can’t own it. [Books were shared] between maybe two people or three people were allowed to own. Before I eat my lunch, I have to do my homework and then I pass it to the second person. One book for three people, that was English. That's the only book I have, I remember it was English book. The rest [of the classes] is like um no, we just lecture, uh the teacher lecture in the class and then he have to—we don’t have like, example, like biology book, I don’t have biology book. But the teacher have to write it on the chalkboard, it’s like we need to copy through chalkboard. Abel: Okay. Tegest: I mean like a notebook! We need to make notebook! (claps hands for emphasis) Abel: Okay. Tegest: Ourself, yeah. Abel: But was there—did they—you know, was there enough materials like notebooks and things like that or was that even hard to come by? Tegest: No, we don’t have—we don’t have any, uh enough notebook. I mean, notebook to buy notebook to write it down? Abel: Yeah. Tegest: Yeah! We have it. It was a little expensive, but yeah, we have pencil, we have, I remember, there is a small [area to buy] uh stationery. We used to go in and we’d buy exercise book, pencil, and pen. Abel: Okay. Tegest: Yeah. Abel: Interesting. So that means that learning was hard without the textbook, because when you got home you didn't have anything else to continue studying, right? Tegest: No but I have notes anyway. We need to copy the notes and sometimes I understand it, sometimes I don’t. �Abel: Oh, okay. Tegest: Well, we can’t uh go back to the school and ask the teacher, and you know, it—it was very hard. Abel: And there were no tutors, right? Tegest: No tutors. Um, no. Abel: Okay. Tegest: Nobody can tutor you; you have to tutor yourself. Abel: (laughs) Okay, um. All right, uh so, how did you get to America? Um and uh how hard was it to come here from start to finish, in the whole process? Tegest: Okay, um, to come here, uh to start from—from Ethiopia, it was a little bit—very difficult, you know? At the time, it was like age limited. So, um a family friend, um, a family friend asking somebody else [to help me], you know, through—through people, you go through people if you have—if you know somebody. If you don’t, you can’t [do the process]. So, we go through people and finally I got my passport, and after the passport is this process, you have to go here and there, you know, by—by a bus, or you can walk and—but the thing is, um, what I like about that, uh after you get your passport, it’s not really—I didn’t see it very difficult, but it takes time and you have to back and forth. But after that, uh I need to go to American embassy to get visa. And then by the first time when I go, I didn't get the visa. I went—I think I went two times or three times. So, you line up outside and you wait, when you get your turn, they will interview um whatever they feel like. They can see your face and they say no. They deny you. I don’t know the reason, but after that, you know, from what I did, what I did in the beginning, by the end. And um still family help me, you know. Through family member, you know, he had business back home, uh you know? A family member, and because of that he talk to the—the embassy who work here and then, you know? It was very hard, but I made it. Abel: Ha, congratulations. Tegest: Thank God! Abel: Right, thank God. Tegest: Yeah. Abel: Ah, okay. So, when you came here to America, what did you leave behind in Ethiopia and what or who did you intend to bring over someday? �Tegest: So, I, by my father’s side, they're good and, you know, they can—they can take care of themself, but, uh, the part I left there, my—my mom’s side, my mom have, um, my mom have like two children and um. But if I bring them, it would be nice. I have two sister and one brother. But unfortunately, right now my mom is passed away, but if I bring those [siblings] it will be nice. I'll be happy. Abel: Okay. Um so, what was it like getting settled into America? Did you have trouble getting used to the culture when you were first here or for the first few years or anything like that? Tegest: Hmm, not really. Um, what um was trouble me is the language. Abel: Okay. Tegest: So, I have a little difficult to understand. Some of the people speak louder, some of like they speak faster. But, um, I catch up real good, real in a—in a short time. In about a year. And, which—which really help me is um watching TV! Abel: Oh, okay. Tegest: My—my aunt's daughter have a baby, uh and I used to—I use to help them to take care of her. So— Abel: Leila. Tegest: Yeah, her name is Leila. So, it's really help me talking to her, watching TV, watching cartoon. I think that’s—that’s the thing that help me to catch up and understand English quick. Abel: Okay, so you didn't have, uh, like some kind of—nobody gave you a book of English terms or something and said this is what you need to know, like you just picked it up by conversation. Or what did you— Tegest: I pick it up by conversation, (Abel: “Okay”) really. Yeah, conversation and, um, and watching my TV. Abel: Oh, and was that difficult still? Tegest: Yeah, it was difficult. Yeah. Abel: Okay. Tegest: It was. Abel: Okay. Tegest: Not easy, so. �Abel: But you learned anyway. (laughs) Tegest: I learn it anyway. And um by—by that time, it was like, uh I miss Ethiopia, uh I was lonely here. Um even though, uh this—this my family members around, but I missing that [inaudible] back home. Abel: The experience of being with other Ethiopians? Tegest: Uh, yeah. I guess, let me see, it like make me cry for two years? And after that, you know, I felt comfortable here. Abel: Ha, aww. Tegest: I’m the one telling people, “It's okay you'll get used to it. When you get here it’s a little difficult, but you can do it. You will manage to escape this lonely and, you know, uh homesick and everything.” So. Abel: Wow, man. You lived very—you lived very different than I did. Tegest: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys are lucky you were born here, liji [child]. Abel: (laughs) We are. Um, and finally, uh do you consider yourself an American or are you really just Ethiopian? Tegest: No, I’m um, I live here long enough. When I came here, I was 24? 20, no—23 or 24. Abel: Only a couple of years older than me. Tegest: Yeah, and I don’t have anything there [in Ethiopia]. I mean, even my children, my oldest son is 22 now. Yeah, I'm considering I’m American. Abel: Okay. Tegest: And I'm proud of it! Abel: Well, congrats on being American. Tegest: Thank you! (both laugh) Abel: All right, thanks mom. Tegest: You’re welcome. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2020 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Abel Dereje Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Tegest Kebede Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data docx, MP4 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Tegest Kebede Description An account of the resource This is an interview with Tegest Kebede conducted by Abel Dereje. In this interview, Tegest describes living in Ethiopia as a child and her personal experiences with the Derg, the military junta that ruled the country from 1974 to 1991. Tegest also speaks about her education in Ethiopia, the ways that her family helped her move to the United States, and how she learned English. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2020). This course was led by Professor Robert Chiles of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Abel Dereje Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Spring 2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. 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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2019 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dercem Kaya Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nico Alvarez Location The location of the interview College Park, Prince George's County, Maryland, United States Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3, JPG Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Nico Alvarez Description An account of the resource This interview between Nico Alvarez and Dercem (Derc) Kaya explores Nico's experiences migrating as a child from Spain the United States. Nico discusses his experiences in school, his observations on cultural differences between Spain and the U.S., his parents' careers (which brought them to the U.S.), and the decision and ability to stay in the U.S. once his family moved back to Spain. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2019). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dercem Kaya Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 7, 2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, JPG, MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History accent assimilation childhood migration cultural differences cultural retention culture Culture Shock education employment engineering Europe food grandparents Green Card higher education language parents race return migration siblings Spain US politics visa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/688c29b754ed323f69d0f1d26d855865.jpg?Expires=1779321600&Signature=nDP8-j43XD59u4o8JRZQX6Q0wc-Gc5sA5B3Tng%7Eqgy5GKBOde6FntL9NQztB0KMIqGW7yEXGrtot8VKnhrWXDrhPKVmXacEy812MXmfUOlv0XSdNsFNPLNiSSE%7EiwmFM9SzqPiluTqLX7Os4tAC3ccm1rAP2rv1U6QwBLRc4e7auBbzmyJ7MjmhjuR9Ih6cDJ-MHuGWqj-3Pwk5-9qa4G%7EQFyHUTniRnVjV4VBz7s8Rm4hFx79hgKtQmWtY531SOq9UoAV9JMtnWCkGxz93-e0NK3ztugxHxA53EtN2P7jmFRUymOZKiCCaY9XU2PZEob8BT-6RJxDNitN8uOK2irA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 304db8a7852e4f4390d69d3fcadee785 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b361d9b32bc59b673ac6f99fde30dff7.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=C6wKtEjv9nvPnpvmfQqIXkirM1QkeSsXKbMBLEJQlYGJNxH02Y47yLam5lY7qMiz4H8hIClZQWvitYKtkyains4RpPg0cuf8-OGzyxyvNMHuVql5CSHQWbTl-AxQ1UiFanbeEqHiksas-JoYb6tGkii6Q3rsX397C7Pd0qbZCrubhwum5SsvqEMY6G1I5J%7EOQdeWUJvB8f5lFzGPlk-zga2xcVwj4fwiYJncSuIXny8GFoUC0l4hrituMleR7HtTlDJwBn9UOmdWTrJYa4rxdvqMEQhIwtW4wX-0U6Um3Zi29TwAwDyp4%7EYz2zHHaSL3rILoDRfISzSUqT44fCEnWA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 391e7ea9aab29d6fa8d1582334f59aa7 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/b0519eb4d6481ca2d234f8132ecebeee.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=ag9VrKtyJ4apwFUaaS6gBODfkLXXXMGTDjjayV5tNIJxWArWsFB8-pVZ6izOxb59o8WUf9MUc92LB9G0o5oqGBe9c3OGxHDAfeznZFf1R-F8tA80zxEILmC1NTmtkwNBWbYjQgtdUvWS78eMay%7E8PrO-c3gYu7E0DZ1pAPEOkyh2NT3ojZ9-%7Ebk47A1ZZRSIv2oubUt5F%7E0pc9Y4MTSTTifeIvcNt%7E2bhppcJikES2LmQ8M0uL-zpVHqTLtXsU0XD%7EiqIhF10ncIwnixWEwwsHeAb0bqdCKCkEh2dD35sdj9qvgZrAN9z1klKw1zysioxXd5TcFl51Jld8-z-c007w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 40006e0e3712f2e8d9c00f12765e63ad Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2019 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Ivonne Gonzales Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Blanca Henriquez Location The location of the interview Silver Spring, Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MP3, PDF, JPG Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Blanca Henriquez Description An account of the resource This interview between Blanca Henriquez and Ivonne Gonzalez explores Blanca's experiences growing up during the Salvadoran Civil War and how she came to the United States. Blanca and her family were able to immigrate due to her father's work visa. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2019). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ivonne Gonzalez Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 11, 2019 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3, PDF, JPG Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History American Dream Catholicism Central America childhood childhood migration Children civil war culture education El Salvador employment family family reunification gender roles grandparents Green Card higher education immigration process jobs language Language Barrier motherhood religion safety Salvadoran Civil War siblings traditions visa Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2019 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lennox Acheampong Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mark Brunner (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview Maryland, USA Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Mark Brunner Description An account of the resource In this interview, Mark Brunner (pseudonym) discusses his experience immigrating to the United States from the Philippines. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR 400 (Spring 2019). This course was led by Professor Rob Chiles of the History Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Lennox Acheampong Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource May 3, 2019 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu). Language A language of the resource English assimilation Catholicism childhood discrimination Donald Trump education employment family food Freedom holidays immigration process language Philippines school South Asia xenophobia https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/f08b867a71989744ca3765392b644042.jpg?Expires=1779321600&Signature=dj5mpAQyWKCu%7EvfNUUoSHj4-wA8RUaCuyzguqBXAuHqTrr-gNlIaFdSO2PniHzbiAaRJAWOUvUm8iRw-H4B1IZg3YCNIwIJNz8qwD7xB7gTWLmqLbHNauG224Z3CNy45-fLQ%7EoqeDxC7WrLxSIcQHmigka%7EYOqZg28PJOd2fTqSwYi33nf2GkoC7MK1ZU%7E-JYS94vK6Dn2h3NgXYvHoLRPVNdxp6wR4qU85nkzFADQUhMn0CFw80xEwgkzFUCLJtMOT4mRFQHW-mWyWvoE7Yf3S7uw3YJrfPwR1nMfgSfOytUHZuLub2pMUsJsKzCnssgv%7EU9tIbasg01PWejv%7EEwA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM e44943da4ee18bcfadeab7b3c4253948 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6e775801634b1a2aad21a9da4a82a221.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=FHNA%7EuTX%7E3ZWJhHYeqXANEx4oZu2YklCZSL6rMmFO3tjJkUvNDWyjF5IaYvbYFWUWzFiV2XnyshXeuz2MnYhS5XLc3msrNYXMZkPXRKqeJygNrYXoreL6EMR3KedAcuBsBTLke-hjg9hAjf-t1h1p9aJcMt1xriMUntpMc2IO-Qqvot31pLgmU6gi3x4s9Avt5Ha9wSAVOf6IT6ORTJk2r6pRTbfg6FFOaZEtTiBnYwXC1TXnkzDn8ME1NwzMzbaFBEo7x465E6TZF63FnfFSjCKBWXV3pCB-XsyAR35qKoD2fcj7eEzzlU2Ng22YSuqp2zU9rA-MvrKRqDiFBts7A__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 0303071b7b84e83c822ff2f476cf60df https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/6b8d409fe1fc4785356097d4671fa3f3.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=J7QCx6HQ4Cv0sAVH-0CwHWh-wGOvTrVH1qpzIS1ILM8lfZStfqJG1WM3k6KALyU8mGFkD9GKisAQ9sffLooGInR1hNMEorJUZjq-2L%7E04ed%7EtSE8t9e--S6%7EhjgDig2uUry8g3hzPpQIfHZyQRgDTssFH9gqAEHT68P5C-7k3tfPYis2StywVXDVgc6umabwXidZT4JUqJWmwTKTN0BWwejJySuP4Og9bIWU-gohWH6JmmzxROBOZS4LfijXiBxjb1D8UTmeiTFlxoMunWBI2UddLSRtY9D8nQyrxRt4nRO4dUgSyTe9-cYXhuTG%7Eb2DLbHCGYRUtdRroC0RSiEmOg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 525ee6187e71e662e4e7267c0d20b37b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2018 Interviews Description An account of the resource These interviews were conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park courses THET489V (Spring 2018) and HIST428M (Spring 2018). THET489V was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, HIST428M was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities. Both courses were sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview William Wiehnacht Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ilias Eliezer Location The location of the interview Maryland, USA Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Ilias Eliezer Description An account of the resource This interview between William Weihnacht and Ilias Eliezer explores Ilias' experiences moving to the United States from Greece to attend the University of Maryland. Their conversation spans topics like differences in educational styles between countries, cultural norms, and international cuisine. Ilias also delves into the supportive roles that his family members have played in his journey and the inspiration to follow in his father's footsteps. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST428M (Spring 2018). This course was led by Professor Anne S. Rush of the History Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource William Weihnacht Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 9, 2018 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource JPG, PDF, MP3 Language A language of the resource English assimilation culture Culture Shock driving economy education entrepreneur Europe family food Greece higher education language Opportunity sports travel https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/0e84df3ec6f5980f0c9eab306e302b13.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=X3oOxQl4kxlfYbMCebbtj7HrNJJKqqg6w1Lj3iQ8t6KQC9yHqdvJQqp-rH1iUbQfaSdvJ3%7EYfDIBi6KWHl8I26pG%7EHInUX90b08RwgrtGPJpzU90tEJPRxVc%7EBYR1KEYlhTNh8aEyad0Fzxs5ea1to-VP10D3R4AMb1thegp-Ojo0q2NuCKZzhBKRMjB4wUeGLnmU5k2TdhgPYrZRnrH8MuI6adcCtRttRj2L2NMlZea%7EhnxtPVC4L8vhi0XxhzamT4Nn2eJY30uMubx0ye0HGaFXhalbYJZZr4BLeTh-smG4SA67LrqHHqe7nv5n7m0HAe2iDRcdozx1BGPWi8cKw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 020d6d951345237c7ccadbb1d9d3e9bd https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/29fc95246d242828f5843561f28a968b.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=vIwSXApCe67C9dOCztEU0B%7EdjZt%7E09bnYhafXELV6TBQ8qvps08SR7xaIjZRv2XfecS-tfzk8LoMkTHAOZEn%7EYDBw5nTjfGYh%7E4MMhdvv-K%7EvTeuoF6kW5P5xnZB1i4i%7EDuhXXKt1whl00gx7W9J1RK1cKmuqRPFC%7EMHRy11d8PiVruCNIeZ9CRqIPaDwz2r4iaBTmerbTFhnhCPcQ57XionphC8CMM%7EqhannYPSc4W3%7EomTemnClBBVGb3US8WzjGcQqd3EAWBF40nXsLKYHJ0-R-hYmCe5l3sPEvnL5ZVud9rth3xqFt1mcyDEM0ZnlHxlpB7QcJKRqb5l0aaflg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM b12215c389e8fc3838d3ba441c36aa7a https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/17c4447063becfd00e58dda4b9965b15.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=SsOLuef1zPYWuX8azdzLtiAfDozZYSv78yK4FEKyt45SPRhV303ldJAghRuoPDMxvr%7EppYGWtA0hy-4347dIWUEEJDfJDb2HYs%7E6MQ%7EA07Y2c2zSpAU5v-0xLXn0R90mapVezGZUmWUuw2Xpk9Ci6YNk6lOO0sQDgQq1jNGCRKL5zglP6h1kN8gtUb95%7EW6rXmn-QuoQZaAj4OaWdPRLAswbY3FH5t427iRNSyokhRPB0fF-vZznLQ26ey1ZaXwfSYDdaraQ7W2jh6-7UA6jrjeFqhnnoUvS1rdw2yJl6fPMjtqeiEEmiQySGHFQbrzpSvJs3ItveMuNjMl-Kgx55g__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 864c9b217195b44b73dca69aff0cc787 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/c8eb227b359a4d00345718373c4926f8.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=ZA44AGH6aiBRH6dTIEDSWtx8VIyTYTcvu9Gw0FgwTRJx1Y2113D9VI12VsOBWQdHBJQwK3Cc4KIokJtRxjb4jOGxZ682wz82vfOurrLEJ87nuqk3-5IEQVwXA%7ET-FVG6WmV2w-oEQxve65adjr%7ExZybyOOCxW1IdbSB3R8A2z19XPK9zJyhIbyH8XS8Iu2W7PL-EqyVDTMYPnzreht3RQn%7EWTtDnKEtsb5aEpSmjcZkXhhwy1G50ZmdgfxymzxLQyRHomsJsNGfZDTMIeJ8fkaDiTiIrEV5KsHw%7ESRNklq5oNY1Nn70d6mo9pj-IIBD3skn44LUciKsRwJ9pfV7c0g__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM facf00af56b042a3950a37466ec6b6fc https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/d16386932d09615ee278a1beb3b043cc.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=GbZBE1qlsRGo6Pli%7EQJdnVj6PrcvrBCn2SxnDYONzUh%7Eo91MISFyx1D6AvTjSuRsTpgovsIYlMankwYOKwOIjeZ2TKuF5Q-cAsn-1wePgJmK7y1cyw%7EDC5TLxFUpU3e4jZeZbKooKxKtthdtr8QKESff7-YqxWy0B5xS1N2WqYqLCi85fnvjebPfgypPP4WGVAA-TZjysG2Vh%7ELf6768dA7mNp8xkTagJ9LyJCYPgbZ-UbR8SSKia9zphFN7XO0VEXVzMRX7CIQLWYzuFeHS3i0AI5BkgTXgVLUSuj3ZLwTPWR23NRoNyqfwoq-QVMk1BENBCsfOIpXxv6TjjehQGA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7e9ec38d2dfccc9f1f1c6467db44ae62 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/052c5eb9d8dd793d62c087fa9dfa1f7a.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=UIFFQPS5ZdVki63xGuP9xqhlOxiIeE5m2sGOYeyabD90OdQvTCVmIO9umE2uh4n6XioEh1tCl69hhDQe1cQWLz5L-QRjzrnog2r2oaUqlIoQgQ%7E7zuqRJelHDwZ2MnYwmbozh73knU0uFZlae2Ov4v6uat-y5I7gPwsakJmPIBRxz-TCm9dxkE6pIBzGRV0OhLiMN144XYweOMGMpU0xXVoSOb3P5x5kiCnpPNC64ORbfkGaaFEQHQXbY1VntTlF4XTDplXz%7EPTENT%7EsS1o5nWEpynNltc0k1ElbYDwTh92iWP3rmeKDZ3MtL2lsY-J8G5wMgEy20fhFnD2Uk2gdzg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 8d5e962d2fd15c7b66472b860f98e475 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/a431ee91495f324213bf66e2424f0853.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=garOIZiwdIQGVh6bytXgnU-gyAIduuATzCvMkQUlsaLJqs7LZ8coL83B1peJyvfZPBS7nv82FQUVjzx%7EEfgCwZm-9bbAPDNUJKY1JJOvMTgNLBXWsMo9ULE4lZM6gY9bENzmV1bi-2iTKOLA4AhK2u5Sw2Eg2V08fHtPWdEca-fAXlotOb7gx9a6xszUi7QvSGj8tjiaWPE6B%7E-177xDqBz6oBvJZQ0eJYOBfsJvse5lBLcw9LZBhn8l8m41giePeyZ59wI6cd8m7YPAS05HXE9stpg2ZCujvsl1mttjrJitN1rxUpOWqRK4TTgQaq7bTg-Lqx79Bfdke2%7E9o3hCng__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 0843b658ea2b75d606c6bad4b8622a2e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2018 Interviews Description An account of the resource These interviews were conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park courses THET489V (Spring 2018) and HIST428M (Spring 2018). THET489V was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, HIST428M was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities. Both courses were sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Dolma Gazan Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Tenzin Dolma (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Tenzin Dolma Description An account of the resource This interview between Dolma Gazan and Tenzin Dolma explores Tenzin's experiences as an immigrant to the United States from Tibet. The interview traces Tenzin's experiences in Tibet and growing up under Chinese occupation, and her escape through Nepal and to India, and ultimately her journey to the U.S. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course THET428V (Spring 2018). This course was led by Professor Esther Lee of the Theater Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dolma Gazan Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource May 9, 2018 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3 Language A language of the resource English, Tibetan, Chinese Buddhism childhood children left behind China Citizenship communism East Asia escape family Health higher education India language Nepal politics refugee religion siblings South Asia Tibet United Nations Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2018 Interviews Description An account of the resource These interviews were conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park courses THET489V (Spring 2018) and HIST428M (Spring 2018). THET489V was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, HIST428M was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities. Both courses were sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sonia Colon Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Elisa Jimenez Juarez Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Elisa Jimenez Juarez Description An account of the resource This interview between Sonia Colon and Elisa Jimenez Juarez explores Jimenez's experiences as an immigrant to the United States from Mexico. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course THET428V (Spring 2018). This course was led by Professor Esther Lee of the Theater Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sonia Colon Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 20, 2018 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu). Language A language of the resource English border crossing family food language Mexico https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/fe501f4f4854b245d817577538d812c7.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=MYlK29vrnkRsRITSFGQurFrG0SkKhvSvUZwNKLY%7EVvYfNgEOoLzVeAe9-H2oxvP-t%7EfbJntOONuj41MXsfbVkiN55qcsSokDw-ddSdqaOGAQPJco2J2MeakI6887dH-gOEKI2WoRkQzDS1xyvv6waQXn38oQ0R0RlxDfrfN9zwjOtrxYqMLBBFeOP8Sin9gbyY3eUWiN2JlBSoufs%7ES86mFIQXE3V21RXhsHLtbonGP61qnA8EOzlux-JrpMcEb7l1Rqn-rLHbIjtIp%7EUUKR8ybh05ioXiXRrf8fly6x5KceGTQJ94Qwt6NzWmEzfXo8mozzVX5qa41p-CL2EIhMVQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM bbc9b58577ff4910bf6fae215d31d1d1 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/3ef5e9f131684b89c33ba1fa82c64377.mp3?Expires=1779321600&Signature=PNe32nBt5WbYI098t%7EA1QJvJxvJZutqT0tgw3DnNTrFKjZQlJdUdz0KiNzjZ-xFTmPHEurtGQh7OUd5%7E9UExdprHNKz6wBPzg-AhyoMWkhq55hZWhb8%7Eq7%7ETA8HY-iLP087A6io9fPB%7EZ1tbOPBLAyRfWg8POnTmrWzMz75OzGY%7EWouC-kqIu58oRZpS1L%7ErKb-El1s1sjdb7Eq%7EbSJRPe0KnGpFijwUYK0jj2uJKfYgna%7EhoAPwgk6DnYnWODryWtD75XJXfTFPvEq8NA%7EomZ4JlZlK2xfq5%7EYqquXYbmnf%7E3MTUDgns%7EEOxC8cw%7EETYd439BcLoX9bnEyMetiHOQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM ae6e25b61f72ace73f72693be0958ecd Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2018 Interviews Description An account of the resource These interviews were conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park courses THET489V (Spring 2018) and HIST428M (Spring 2018). THET489V was led by Professor Esther Lee of the School of Theatre, Dance, and Performance Studies, HIST428M was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities. Both courses were sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sophia Mattison Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Bruno Diaz (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview Maryland, USA Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data PDF, MP3 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Bruno Diaz Description An account of the resource This interview between Sophia Mattison and Bruno Diaz (pseudonym) explores Diaz's experiences as an immigrant to the United States from Mexico. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course THET428V (Spring 2018). This course was led by Professor Esther Lee of the Theater Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sophia Mattison Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 28, 2018 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, MP3 Language A language of the resource English 2016 election assimilation childhood childhood migration Communication Donald Trump education family language Mexico music safety technology travel US politics visa