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For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Maryland Day 2016 Description An account of the resource The Center for the History of the New America sponsored a booth at the annual Maryland Day celebration at the University of Maryland (2016). In addition to other activities on immigration history, we performed a series of "mini" interviews with some of our visitors. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thomas Messersmith and Allison Gunn Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for the History of the New America Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 30, 2016 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewees to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Born Digital: MPEG-4, 3GPP Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Thomas Messersmith and Allison Gunn Location The location of the interview College Park, MD Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 16:05 Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Naime Okumusopiu, Jihye Park, Maryam, Vera T Drodds, Ahmad Khan, Krista McCall, Paula Barriga-Sanchez, Harutyun Shahumyan, Lulu Barnachea, Bernadetteeong, Jose Cerna, Felix Grandisson, Marina Veljanovska O'Brien, Lea Ordaniel, V. Boreland, Ingrid Robin, Mahesh Naidu, Xu Yang, Yuxi Dai Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Maryland Day 2016 Interviews Description An account of the resource The Center for the History of the New America sponsored a booth at the annual Maryland Day celebration at the University of Maryland (2016). In addition to other activities on immigration history, we performed a series of "mini" interviews with some of our visitors. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Thomas Messersmith and Allison Gunn Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for the History of the New America Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 30, 2016 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewees to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. 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Truong discussed her experiences as a Vietnamese refugee in the US throughout her childhood, young adulthood, and adult life. She shares stories about her family dynamics and her difficult upbringing due to her socioeconomic status. Her strong belief in freedom and opportunity explains her appreciativeness for America, and throughout the interview Truong reiterates how she is grateful for where she is today, despite all the hardships she has faced. Keywords: Vietnam, refugee, freedom, escape, fate, opportunity, family reunification, communism, Asia, language, parents Kaitlyn: Okay, it's starting to record can you state your — I'm starting, are you ready? Can you state your name and today's date? Victoria: My name is Victoria Truong. Today's date is April 5, 2024. Kaitlyn: Okay um. First question is, where did you immigrate from and how old were you? Victoria: I came from Vietnam. Um I was at age — hold on. Um age eight. Wait, I left the country at age seven. Kaitlyn: Okay. So you left at seven? Did you come here when you were eight? Victoria: To the US, 1981. Kaitlyn: Okay, and well, since you immigrated at a young age, can you tell me a little bit about growing up in Vietnam? �Victoria: My father had left or escaped it to America, in 1979? I was home with my mom at that time, um — with my two siblings, and um well, actually three, but my sister lives with my grandma. And then my mom had me and my two younger brothers. Kaitlyn: Okay, so you had siblings, do you remember like, if you guys did anything together, or your brothers, or like did you get to see your sister? Victoria: Um, no, because at the time my dad was in the – left the country for a better life, or to give us a better life, in America. And my mom raised us on her own for the time that my dad is gone. And we still um we kind of had an okay life because we were not too poor. But um, the country is communist. So everyone always want to leave the country. But I got to go to school and my brother and my two brother was younger, they didn't get to go to school. So I was probably in, like, kindergarten, back in Vietnam. Kaitlyn: Did your older sister get to go to school? Or was she older younger? Victoria: My sister was older but she was living with my grandma because she's mentally, uh epilepsy. So my grandma took care of her. My dad's mom took care of her. Kaitlyn: You also said that your dad escaped? What did you mean by that? Or can you talk a little bit more about that? Victoria: Okay. Um I said escape because you are not allowed to leave the country, at that time, because the country is communist. And if they find out you left the country um or catch you, you can get um jail time or even killed, in jail. So from what I know, from what my mom said was he left the country so that he can find a better place for us, or have more freedom so then he can sponsor us or help us get over. But at that time you were not allowed to sponsor straight from Vietnam. You either have to leave the country illegally, or um like to another country. Yeah. But we left the country, um after my dad was in the US, trying to get us over to the US. But you have to go through a lot of stages for that. For freedom. Kaitlyn: And I know you said that he left first. And I know you were young. How did you feel when he left? Victoria: I mean sad because I didn't have a dad. But I was still young, so I still have my mom. And my mom always tell me that we gonna be together soon. So I always think that I'm going to get to see my dad sooner or later, because at that time, they don't tell you — I'm telling you escape but at that time I doesn't know it’s an escape. I doesn't know that it's illegal. My mom always say my dad's like out of the country on a business trip, and soon we'll we will meet up with him. But after when we came to the US, that's when I realized that we actually escaped from Vietnam because we were boat people. We left the country by boat, and so did my dad. �Kaitlyn: So before you left, what kind of things did you do in preparation for leaving? Victoria: There is no preparation. You don't know between life and death, you don't know, if you're going to get caught by the communists, you don't know if um, you know, all you can do is leave quietly. So I would say the only preparation is that my dad has helped us because he left the country first. And he would send a map home to my uncle and mom, but in in little puzzle pieces, and they would have to put it together. Because if the government ever find out that you try to leave the country, um, that's a big punishment. You either go in jail or they would kill you at that time, and this was back in 1978-1979 after the war. So basically, you left the country in Vietnam, it's illegal, but when you go to other country it's not because they would take you in. Um you know, the country is communist and no one wants to stay in a communist country. Uh, so I mean there wasn't really a plan but I guess it was kind of planned out by my dad to help us in a way where we wouldn't get caught. So he sent the map in little puzzle pieces where my mom and my uncle had to put it together. And then my uncle's home already have a ship that was already, uh like for fishing. So they use the fishing ship as an escape ship, or a leaving ship out of the country to leave the country, and it was by water, like by the ocean that we have to leave. So, all I can remember was that we left that night and you're not allowed to make any noise. If the government or the communists catch you, um you're done. Kaitlyn: And I know we have stories in our family about like, you having a dog, um or things like that, do you remember like if you just left really abruptly or if there were other things you had to do before you left at night? Victoria: Um no, we just, from what I remember was my mom always told me we're visiting my grandmom. But we have to leave behind my dog. And I always ask her why at that time because I don't know that I'm leaving the country. All I know is that I'm going to go visit my grandmom, and then my grandmom is going to take us to my dad. And that's the story that was uh, told the people around so that you don't get or the government or the people around them get suspicious that you're trying to leave the country here. Um, so at that time, all I know as I'm going out to visit my grandmom and spend time with my cousins and you know, my uncles and my aunts and all that would be there. And which is true because all my grandma and uncles and aunts were on the ship. So all I can think of at that time was oh, we're gonna go see my dad now, um on his business trip or wherever he was. So for the time like I say, it was it was all kept secret by my mom because everything that was done cannot be known by the government, because you would get killed like I say or you would go to jail. And there'll be no way out for you if they ever catch you at that, in, back in those time of years. Kaitlyn: Then, okay. Do you remember how big the ship was? Or how many people were on it? And like, what your experience was like on the boat? �Victoria: [Chuckle] Yeah. So the ship is overflowing with people for safety. So it was hazardous. It's not enough food. Not enough water. Not enough. All I remember is the whole ship was crowded, and if there's a storm coming the ship can sink, in which it did happen the storm did come. But lucky we were saved by another ship when we were uh, out in the ocean. Um but at the beginning, when we travel at night like I say we have to leave at night, I always asked my mom, why can't we be loud and my little brother was a baby, he's only a couple months old. And he would cried. And my mom would have to hush him because if they can hear a baby crying, or if they catch us in any kind of way. So we take from a small little paddle boat out to the big ship. And from that big ship, we would leave. And that's a fishing ship. It's supposed to be for fishing, not for people, you know, like cruising or escaping or whatever it is. But there's so many people that want to leave the country at that time. Um, it was overcrowded, but we can't send them back because if we send them back, they would tell on us and we would all be caught. So there was some people on the boat that we don't even know and then there are some people in the boat that actually knows that they're going, which is our family. And so, when we travel, I think it was like almost three days before we reach the map where my dad has my mom and my uncle put together, that my dad has sent to the island where he was, and that was in Singapore. So a ship from Singapore saved us and we live in uh, those uh, what do you call that? Kinda like a home on the water. Uh I don't know what it's called by that time but it was like uh, it's not inside the country it's outside the country but the places they built for uh, people like us, would be immigrants to stay out until we get I guess kinda like, asylum. Um and then we get put in another country which is Indonesia: Galang 1 and Galang 2. Um, and we would stay there I think almost like a year before my dad actually sponsor us over to America. Then we left on the plane and flew over to America. But at that time we were on a big ship, American– I guess navy ship? I don't remember what kind of ship, but it was a U.S. ship that took us to Indonesia for asylum, I guess, until we um until we get into the country, legally. Sponsored by my dad. Kaitlyn: Okay so, just to be, or just to make sure. Like from what I studied, refugees stopped by, or many refugees stopped by a first destination as you were saying. So you stopped by Singapore first, and then you went to Indonesia? And then from Indonesia, you went on a ship to the US? Victoria: Yes. Kaitlyn: Okay, um I know you brought some pictures. Do you have any pictures from when you were in Indonesia and Singapore? And do you have any stories you can tell or remember from the time you were there for a year? Victoria: I don't have picture of us sailing on the ship, but I have pictures like, just like, where the island where we stay with my uncles and family that we took. Um, but I don't have like uh boat pictures because I guess my mom, um at that time doesn't really say or tell me because I was too little to know �that she actually like, we actually escaped the communist country. Um she wants us to just think that my dad is um sponsoring us over. But when I grown up, I realized that we were actually boat people. Like both people that escaped from Vietnam, from communist country over to America. For freedom. Kaitlyn: Can show me some of the pictures from when you were on the island? Victoria: Um yeah, I can show you like, like there's a temple, there's um of my mom and you know my little brother, and my sister, and my uncle, and her uncle, and my aunt um, right here. Kaitlyn: What is this picture? [Pointing at the photo she pulls out of an album] Victoria: This is in uh Galang 1 or Galang 2. Kaitlyn: And what were you guys doing here? Victoria: Um we were just taking pictures. We live in this uh country, for a while waiting from sponsorship from my dad, from America. Like saying like it's okay for us to come to the US, legally, um by plane. Kaitlyn: So you, wait. So you got — So you flew on a plane to America? Or you got on a boat to America? Victoria: No, We rode on a ship, a US ship, to America and that landed in Seattle, Washington. And then from Seattle, Washington, we flew over to DC. Kaitlyn: Okay, but okay. You're showing me this picture and– Victoria: This in Indonesia where we have to stay. Kaitlyn: Yes. Is this the temple you were talking about too or no? Victoria: Yes. Kaitlyn: Oh okay. Victoria: This is all– this is inside the temple in um, the island. Galang 1 or Galang 2, Indonesia. Part of Indo— it's an island in Indonesia. Kaitlyn: Okay. Do you have any other pictures? Or are these the only three? �Victoria: Those are the only three that's from the, from the island that we kept, I kept, that I have, of my mom and my grandma and my uncles. Most of my uncles are gone now or passed away. And so is my grandma. But that's, you know, the only picture that I have of them. I don't have a picture of um, I have pictures of my dad when I first came to America, with my grandma. That's like the first picture when we first came to America. [Shows image of family standing in front of a tree] Kaitlyn: And was this when you were in Seattle? Or was this is when you're in DC? Victoria: Um in Maryland. In Maryland. And yeah. [Flips through photo album] Kaitlyn: Okay, we can go back when we talk, or look at the pictures again, if we need to jog your memory or anything. Okay! So, do you remember, I think you said this already. But now we're going to talk about when you're in the US. But do you remember what year you arrived in the US and what your first impression of the United States was? I know you were really young. Victoria: So, we arrived, I remember as 1981. And I have here the um, the shot records for school. So, like you have to get all these immunizations before you're legally in school. So the date I have was the first um tetanus shot that I have was September 10, 1981. But I think I arrived here in January of '81. Or, or somewhere in around before school start. Kaitlyn: That's okay. We don't have to know the exact date, but just a general timeline. But yeah, back to my next question, the question that I asked though. I know you're really young you said you were like eight. Um but do you remember what you felt when you first came to the US? Or like, what you thought about it? Victoria: When I first came to the US, um, my dad pick us up in a green Camaro, I think it's a green like sport car. I think that's a Camaro, Chevrolet, whatever, sport car. And the seats were like [laughs] like holes in it. And you're, you know, it's illegal to sit with a lot of people in the back on a sport car. But there's like four of us and my mom, so there's five of us. So, I just think it's– I have all these memory where I don't want to say that we're poor, but we were immigrants so we're coming in as refugees. So we have green cards, um permanent resident alien they call us um from, we get all that paperwork done in Washington, Seattle. And then we got- flew over to Maryland where my dad actually was, at the time, and he sponsor us from there over here. Um, at once we got, you know into America. Um, so what I feel was like, oh wow, you know, like my first ride or anything in a car because we didn't have a car in Vietnam. We rode in like, motorcycles or you know um, if I go to school the neighbor would pick us up. And the neighbor came with us too to America, um, on the same boat. So the person who lived next to us came with us because I guess she knew that we're leaving Vietnam and we don't want to get in trouble by not, you know, like, she's like next door to us. �So we all say like, my mom's like, she tells us many different stories like where we're just visiting my Grandma, I'm going to see my dad, and all that. But when I first stepped to America, that's when I realized that my mom, um, wasn't lying, that I got to see my dad. But she actually came to tell us later on in life that, we actually escaped, we were both people arriving to America, as um, legal immigrant because we got sponsored in by my dad that was already here. Um— I don't know at that time, we lived in Riverdale. So the apartment, I mean everything is like, even if it's the poorest thing here in the US or the poorest neighborhood or whatever, to us it's uh, uh luxury. Because it's more than what we have back in the country. At that time, when you're a kid you don't, I don't know, I don't know any better except I know that I got to go to school. I got to ride in a car, even though the car's broken down [laughs]. I got to see my dad. Um, it was like, a happy moment. You know like for a kid who haven't seen you know, like your dad for two or three years. You're, you're happy. Kaitlyn: Yeah. Okay. Um, you know, so I wanted to ask you about– because you said you were happy and that it was better than, your living conditions were way better than in Vietnam, even though it might be considered poor over here. Can I ask you about how your parents made a living when they first came to the US and what they did? And did you ever have to help out, and stuff like that? Victoria: Umm, oh yeah. So back in the 80s um, minimum wage was like two dollars [laughs], and something per hour. So my, my dad worked as an assembly in a manufacturer. And then he got my mom to work in there. Um but when we first come over there, my mom didn't have a job until later. My dad was only working uh parent. So we get help from, I guess you call it welfare? And um you were on like food stamp? We were on food stamps for a while. We were on um, you know, the government helped us for awhile. And, but my dad also had an income where he had to go to work every day, supporting us. And I still remember um, I couldn't work because I was only eight. But I was still trying to help my mom like, we would dig through trash can for clothing. We would you know, like go to thrift stores. We're not, it's like, if you're talking about poor, I mean, that's I uh guess it's better than living in a communist country. Because they control you, but here it’s not really controlling. It's like you can find stuff in the trash can which you can't really find in Vietnam. But I didn't have to find stuff in Vietnam. Like I said, my mom, my dad came to the US first and he send like money home sometime to help out, and my mom works. So I was kind of living like an okay life. But if I think if I was to grow up my whole life in Vietnam I would have been in a more serious poor situation than the US. But even coming to the US in like, I say not like poor, maybe can poor consider to the people in America, but it's not poor consider to people in the communist country. Third World country. Um, so I would say like, we, we were doing like, finding cans. We would sell cans, we would, you know, to the Safeway store to get money here and there for like our candy or ice cream. We don't get the luxury of, you know, like kids nowadays, where whatever you want to eat you can just go out to the ice cream truck and buy. At that time, we would have to have, like, I would have to, you know, like, have the extra money to go buy. My dad wouldn't just, you know, take us to the ice cream truck and say here �[laughs], "this is your treat". Because money back then was real tight. But once my mom start working and then they work, they work hard, they worked their way up. And I guess we were in the apartment for awhile because, maybe like my parents came over, my mom came over '81. And my parent actually bought their first home in 1986. Before they bought their second home in 1991. So I mean, my parents was hard-working parents. And I would have to like, at that time you're not supposed to leave your kid at home [laughs], you know, illegally, but I was only eight and I have to watch my two siblings, and my sister. So that was kind of like, illegal, but that's what we have to do. You know like when you, you work um, your parent goes to work, and then you get stuck home and— my parent can't afford babysit. You know they don't have the money to babysit so we babysit each other. We looked after each other. So we would get in trouble all the time if something happened at home. Um, sometime my brother breaks the apartment door glass. Sometime it's like you know, like, c'mon now I'm only eight so I had to watch over like, my brother what, three years younger than five, five year old and a two year old um, of course they're not going to listen to me over my parents but both of my parents have to be at work. So yeah, I helped a lot out, it's kinda like, the older sibling took care of the younger sibling at a wrong age, but we made it through and we survived. And like I say the car, um, was a sport car. But there's six of us every time we go, we have to sit, like hiding on the floor, and hoping praying to God that we doesn't get caught by cop [laughs]. Because my dad would be in big trouble. But every time when we go somewhere it's always like nervous breakdown for my dad because if he gets pulled over, he's done. Like, with his license maybe, or suspended. But luckily, I am grateful for, like God blessed us because we never got caught in that green Camaro that he have, Chevrolet Camaro I think, that was the car. And that was the longest car time, before my dad can afford like another car. And even then we still–six people in a sedan [laughs]. So it's for, it's for a while, like until the kids actually grow up and get their own like, you know, money and work and stuff to help out. Um, so I mean, if you call babysitting one another taking care of helping out, yes. Picking up clothes from trash can, cans to sell to you know, yes. But, I would say that's probably the happiest moment. Because you get to be with your parents, and you get to be with your family [tears up]. Kaitlyn: And I know that you were talking about taking care of your brothers a lot and being with your parents. What about your sister? Was she there and were are you taking care of her too, or where was she? Victoria: So, we have two apartments. So my grandma helps out taking, um my sister at the time, because I guess my grandma was like still young, at that age, my age of eight. I mean, she was probably my parents age right now or younger. Younger than my parents age right now, which my mom right now is 74. My grandma is probably in her 50s or 60s. I don't know. But um, my grandma helped out. We all help out. We live in an apartment— Kaitlyn: You lived in two apartments? �Victoria: We lived in– uh yeah because my grandma have their own apartment, with my uncles and aunt. And then, my parents have us. It's a two bedroom apartment for six people. So the four of us would be in one room and then my parents would be in one room. Kaitlyn: So your sister was, your sister was there with you guys? Victoria: Yeah, during, during, like um nighttime. But daytime she would stay at my grandmom because it would be too much for me to take care because she's older than me, and then I have two smaller sibling, so I can only babysit my two brother. I can't babysit my older sister that's handicapped too because if something happened, I can't leave her, you know, because then, people probably get suspicious [laughs]. But yeah, like I say, we did most of the illegal stuff, like, not illegal, but like illegal as in your– it's kind of like babysitting. You're not allowed to stay home at certain age. You're not allowed to ride in a car without seatbelt. You know, those kinds of things. But otherwise, it's nothing else that's like, tremendous you call illegal. Kaitlyn: Right, okay. Yeah that's fine. I mean [laughs], I just, yeah. I also want to circle back because you said, you're talking about your family now and like your aunts or uncles are with you, grandma's with you, your mom, dad, your brother, your sister. What happened, whatever happened to that neighbor, that came with you? Victoria: Oh! So, we're boat people. So whoever sponsor you, whatever asylum you seek for, whoever sponsor you, so we all spread out to different state. There's some people in the boat that we don't know goes to different states that– I'm only eight. So I don't remember all of them. But I only remember that one neighbor because that one neighbor lived in Virginia. And it was near my dad, so they came in contact with my dad later. That's how I know that they are nearby us. But everyone else is spread out because whoever sponsor you in the US is where you go. It can be whatever state. Like I say, we were actually brought in by the ship to Washington, Seattle before my dad's sponsor us over to Maryland. From the plane—to live with him. Kaitlyn: Mhm. Okay! Yeah I just wanted to circle back on that but if she was in Virginia, do you know if she's still here and do you still talk to her anything? Victoria: Um, so she, my parent did have connection with them for awhile. But I guess after that everyone goes on their own way because you, you're busy in America, you're too busy for anything. You have your own life, you have your own family, and they're not, they're just our neighbor. They're not like family where we keep in touch. So maybe a couple time um they came, um to visit us, but that was about it. Kaitlyn: Okay! And, now I'm gonna start asking questions, I guess more focused on your adult experience, now that we've talked about your childhood and stuff. Um, so pivoting to this question, I �know that many people who migrate to the US often end up being translators for their parents in a new society. Was that your experience growing up? And I guess when did that start, if it was? Victoria: So [nervous laugh], that starts soon because my parents don't, didn't go to school here. So their English is— whatever I learned in school. I would have to talk to them in Vietnamese at home. So I would have to learn two language, um, to communicate, unlike my brother who can speak English later on and, and not have to worry about Vietnamese. But they still have to talk to my parent in somewhat Vietnamese, but not like the older– in Asia tradition the oldest always take care of the youngest. So it's more or more on me as a mirror image for my brother. So my parents always expect more from me. Um, my sister's mentally challenged so they can't expect anything from her. So I was kinda like, the route for my parents, if anything paperwork wise. Taking care of my sibling wise um. It's, it's a, I don't want to say it's a challenge for me but it's, it's a lot of things that you can't— it makes you grow up faster. So, maybe that makes me want my kid to grow up faster because I have that kind of trait, where I have to learn everything and do everything on my own. Um, learn everything quick, do everything quick, uh catch on to everything quick, because you have to survive in a country that is your second language. So, taking ESOL but I got out of ESOL quickly and that I end up helping ESOL kids, at times. Um, but all is, I know that if I have to do it, I am grateful and blessed that my dad had given us that opportunity, or you know, helping us to get here, and working his day off, hard, to get where we are. And it's like a lot of appreciation. If it wasn't for my dad, we wouldn't be in the US. We would be still in Vietnam, in the communist country and third world country. Where, if you really see the poor side of Vietnam, maybe that's where we would be right now but I'm not sure where we would be at. But I know that being grateful and appreciation, and even though it's suffering, for me as a child to pick up things or learning things, it's a will. It's like, I want to do it. At the same time, I don't think, I don't take it for granted like kids nowadays does, like things that kids have now. They take it for granted. We take everything in, not for granted. We take it in as a blessing, a gift, you know, something that God grant us. Kaitlyn: Okay, sounds like you had a lot of hardships growing up, but are so grateful for your experience in the US. So I guess, my next question is, since you had to do everything a lot on your own, and kind of be like, suffice for yourself, how did you make money when you're in the US, and when did that have to start, if you were helping your family out? Victoria: So I started working as soon as my minimum age was legal. Which is at that time, or back in time was 14 and 9 months. You can work like 20 hours per week. Um, so as soon as I was legal to work, I started working at McDonald's. And at that time it was $4.25 an hour. And every paycheck I would go give it to my mom. And that's when she bought our second home. Um, my mom at that time, my parents would use my name and I was only what [laughs]. 14 Something, I was on the mortgage with them, because I have an income coming in. Um, but it's like that's my first job and every penny earned is every penny you know you saved. Um, I started working at that age. I bought my own car! I got, I go pay for �my own tuition. So you work around where you save and you go to school and you try, you always try your hardest and your best when your second language is not your first language. Because—you have to um, I wouldn't say fight for your things but it's like you have to earn it, and you have to uh, uh work hard for it. So, it's not a day in my life where I just like lay back and say "oh, this is nothing", this is you know, every penny is something. Because when you have to pick things from a trash can or you know, selling cans or you know working at age 8, or doing all the work that you did to survive– you take everything and appreciate it. So [tears up], to me um, when I started working when I can is when I, when I can, and I do everything that I can [sniffles]. I try to get as many job as I can because, I just want to have, I guess a simple life. Or if I have a family and my holiday that my kids doesn't have to suffer of doing what I had to do. Kaitlyn: Okay, thank you for sharing that. Um, I guess on a more happier note. Now you started working at 14 and 9 months but that's also the same time you were in high school. And I know you also talked about paying for your tuition. Do you remember how you made friends here and what you liked to do together with them? Or do you remember any of those friends and who they were, and if they were still friends with them today? Victoria: Yes! Um, most of my friends, we stay in touch with uh Facebook. Um and I went out a couple time, I would say once or twice um. And I did go back and look for my high school, one of my best friend, um that's not Vietnamese, like Indian, but she moved. I don't know where she moved to. But her parents still live at the same house! One of my friend moved to Florida, in Miami. Her name is Nicole [...]. And there's a friend of mine that lives in Columbia, Maryland right now, in Howard County and his name is Matthew [...]. And then I have a David [...] that's in Virginia. A Joseph [...] in North Carolinayeah! We stay in touch, even though it doesn't seem or feel like we're still talking, but we do. We you know, text each other through Facebook or we comment things. We don't get, because like I say everyone have their own family and busy life. So if there's a chance, we might meet up one day all together, we might. But I can name you like Lavinia [...], that's here. Kaitlyn: [Laughs] That's okay, you don't have to name all of them! Victoria: Yeah, but they're the friends that you know, that's long, best friend or good friends because we still try to keep in touch. And they're my high school friends and they're my elementary school friends, um middle school friends. That we stay from elementary to middle school to high school, and through college. And then you know as you grow up, as I was growing up I meet like, one of my best friend, Diana [...], is from high school at High Point. And we still go eat, we still do things and I introduce like, you guys, my kids to her. Um and then I have college friend like Margaret [...] and Jane [...]. And then I have like– it's always good to have at least a close friend, you know, from [laughs] your younger ages. But I don't know if they have to come over the way I do but I know they're also immigrants, um, my college friends. And probably the same way that I did but maybe like [sniffles] not boat people but �maybe sponsor by plane. Um but I was one of the friends that came over by boat, by like seeking asylum um, and I worked my way up. Um you know, I don't want to say rags to riches because we're not rich but to be rich is uh, when you know that you have food on your table or when you have like you said, still hang around with your friends, or when you are grateful for everything you have. Kaitlyn: Okay [smiles]. Thank you for sharing that again. Do you remember, I know you were talking about your college friends, being immigrants as well. Do you think that shared experience is, is why you guys are friends? Or why you guys, do relate to them in any way? Victoria: Um, that's not why we became friends, but we learned from each other once we became friends that, you know like, when we talk, oh, "were you like sponsor here?" It's the same condition where like, you know, they would tell me, my college friend would tell me- oh, like my friend Jane [...], she would have to take care of her siblings. She have to work the same age I have to work. Or she would have to you know, help out her parents where you know, like on welfare and opening up restaurants and you know? Try to better ourselves. So it's kind of like make, it made us stay friends like best friends, probably forever. Uh because we have that kind of relationship, or that we can understand where we came from, uh, but I also have, like I said, like my friend, Nicole [...]. She always asked me to come over to Florida because that's where she is. Like, I was her friend and she's like uh, we have sleepover when we were kids. And um, it's not that I distance myself but it's like I don't have time in my life, or you know, like, maybe one day I will when my kids are older where I have time to myself to go visit all my friends that I tell you that I still, keep in touch with through Facebook or stuff, and go see. But um, my college friend is more closer as um. It's like we build relationship because we can understand our, I guess our life is more alike. And we all work hard to get where we are today. Kaitlyn: And, do you feel like, well, I know who they are, so I know they're both Asian. Do you feel like you were more like, I guess attracted to making friends with people since you're alike? And because they're Asian, or because they're Vietnamese? And it was easier for you guys to understand each other. Or was that not something that you're thinking about when you became friends with them? Victoria: Umm, no that was not something I think about because I have all kinds of friends, like my, my best uh elementary school friend. Uh her name was Lakisha [...]. And she's, we just um, when I move was like at that time, I was only what, sixth grader? So I lost contact, and when I tried to go back to the same house to visit when I was older, and she's gone. Like she moved. So we all move on our own ways. But, it's not because they're Asian that I stay close with. But it's the personality. It's the kind of like um, you know, like the understanding the environment, or you know, like when you're in college and you have a best friend or you do things. And it's like, I have uh I want to say not like, all color friends? You oh, you call it color people or whatever it is they call it now. But I have White friends, Black friends, Asian friends, you know. We don't, we don't, how would I say? Uh like nowadays racist this and racist that. We don't have those back in our days. We are all like together, we're you know like one. We play �with each other, there's no difference in how we become friends. But it's how, it's how we, our personality, our you know like, what we like as one another, how we feel. It's free. You know like, we're we were more open. We're not like, I don't want to say today is more or whatever it is. But uh, I want, and I don't know, like how I, like the question you asked me is like, I want to say that we're opened. We're, we love each other for who we are and what we do and how we can relate to each other. And how not just because of where we come from, but like our, you know like our personality. Kaitlyn: Yeah. No, I understand what you're saying. I just asked that question because like in my experience, like my friend who's Vietnamese, I can relate to her on more things and stuff. Because we're both Vietnamese because we have the same shared experience. So I go to her to talk about that. But I might not go to my other friends to talk about that. And it just sounded similar to what you were saying. Victoria: Mhm. Kaitlyn: Yeah. Okay [laughs]. But I guess on the same topic, did you think about your Vietnamese identity growing up a lot in the U.S.? And how did that influence like school, your work, your family, and your social life? Victoria: Um, so the funny thing is, back then, it's more of, you feel like you're a uh, what do you call that? There's a word I can't think of it. Um. Kaitlyn: Can you describe it? Victoria: Umm. Not. It's uh, it's kind of like you're a... oh my god, I can't think of the word. It's like, on paper, they always ask— a minority! Okay, so the word is minority. Um, so in school, we're minority, just like you know, every other minority. But the only thing I have problem was when I was a kid let's say back, if I have stories to tell, I have lots of story to tell. There's kid that picks on you that think no matter what, you're Vietnamese, you're Japanese, you're Chinese, you're Korean, you're whatever. The first thing they think in mind is you're Chinese. They don't care what kind of Asian or nationality or ethnic, or you know, you are. Um first come to mind, everyone thinks you're Chinese. They never once know I'm Vietnamese until I say I'm from Vietnam. Like, where they asked me, “where you're from?” That's when they'll know! But otherwise, they'll assume that I'm Chinese. And I guess because Chinese people came before, to the US, or have migrated here, um before us maybe? I'm not sure. Um but I don't feel any difference in school as for Vietnamese. But I know that it makes me, work harder study harder because I was fortunate to come to a country with freedom and with opportunities. Then a third world country, where I was told by my parents that if I was still there, I would be less of what I am today then, you know. Kaitlyn Kim: Mhm [nods]. �Victoria: When I'm- when I'm, you know, if I was still there. So, I don't know if that's how other people thinks, but I know that everyone– Oh, I can't speak for everyone. But the friends that I know and the friends that I have, work hard to get to where they are. Kaitlyn: So, I think that you answered the beginning of the question. Do you think about, or I know you were talking about like working hard and that's, even like if you were getting picked on and stuff, that just made you want to work harder. Do you think about your Vietnamese identity now? Like as an adult, or like, with your family, and things like that? Or not as often? Victoria: Um What do you mean? Like Vietnamese? Kaitlyn: Cause you talked about like, you have a lot of stories [laughs]. Victoria:Yeah! So for growing up as a Vietnamese, it's kind of like you're in the minority group. Kaitlyn: Okay. Victoria: Um, I mean, the chances you have is still the same. Like, let's say, example, if I go to apply for jobs, I probably get the same opportunity, as you know, any other, you know, nationality, you know? Nationality or races, or whatever it is. It's, it's like, you feel, I feel fortunate because I can speak two language. That I can you know, use that! It's America where everybody is here. Not just White, Black, Asian, you know um, whatever it is. You know it's like everyone is in the sameit's like- you don't- for me it's, I was taught not to differentiate yourself. You're no different, you're all the same. As long as you work hard and you have the mind to keep it, you shouldn't think less or more or whatever it is. You're, I guess, because the way my parents or my dad brought us up is, you always stay strong and you work for what you earn. You earn for what you work. You know? It's like you um— and I think this is how I teach my kid now too is like, you have to be strong because you have to be independent. You have to know how to take care of yourself. It doesn't matter the color, the race you are, the ethnic you are or whatever it is. It's you, your personality. You are yourself. So Vietnamese, or white, or whatever it is, I think I am, I'm probably the same way. Because I think it's how you were brought up, or how you're teached as a child is how you're going to grow up with yourself. Kaitlyn: Okay! So you were talking about how you raised your kids with these values and these morals. Is it or was it important for you, when you, like was it important for you to raise your kids with Vietnamese traditions and their culture then as well? Victoria: Um I would say, important, I wouldn't use the word important. But it's good if they know their culture because then they can know their background of where they came from. Um, t's like I would send my kids to school1, so they could know the language. Or you know like, or it's like, I want to teach 1 In reference to Vietnamese Language School �them some tradition. Um you know, like, just for because they're Vietnamese. Their skin, I mean, their skin color, their hair, it's- they're still Asian. As if they walk out in the street, people are gonna say they're Asian even though they're born here. You know what I'm saying? Um so, just because you're born here doesn't mean like, you know like, you're not an American. It's like some people think, like, just because of your skin, your color, that's who you are. But they have to think that we're in the U.S. We're united. It should be everybody. You know? So I think it's good that my kid knows the background of where they came from, like, for knowing that their grandparents are Vietnamese. Their parents are born in Vietnam, you know. They're born here and maybe their next- their child is going to be born here, or are they going to be mixtures of you know. But it's always good for a child, even myself, to know where you came, you actually came from, so that you know um, your ancestor. But you don't have to remember the bad things of your ancestors. Like for me, even though Vietnam was a communist country and I left the country because of it, I wouldn't think poorly of my country because hopefully one day they would change, you know. They would become a more united, like here. Or more open. So being Vietnamese is kind of like a good thing, and more opportunity, or with any kind of nationality you are. Once you get to the US it's like, opportunities are there for you. It's either you take it or not. Kaitlyn: Okay, um. That makes sense. I guess, my next question is, we were talking about how you want your kids to know where they came from, preserve their background. Was this something you thought about? Like when you were marrying, or dating people? Like was it important for you like in your early 20s, I guess or, in your dating life, to like, to be committed to marry someone else who was like Vietnamese? Or you also talked about, how like, that never mattered to you also. So maybe like, this wasn't even a thought in your head. Victoria: No, I strongly believe in fate. I always teach my kids that. And I tell you, your journey in life you never know who you're going to marry, who you're going to meet. And, you can say no, you can say you only marry White you can only marry Black, you can only marry Asian you can only you know whatever it is. But at the end of the day, you don't know that answer because it's your fate. And I truly believe in fate. And I truly- if you have faith, or if you believe in something and you have faith in it, God will grant it to you. So I believe that to me back then it's not all Asian that I dated, I dated black, I dated white, I dated um many. Uh, other, you say races, but it's my parent. So it started with my parents where, they would only want- because they were raised, I guess, in a like I said, in a communist third world country. But when I came here, I was eight. So basically, I was raised here in the US where it's united and open-minded. And for me, it's like, there's no difference. I don't see that. I don't see, you know, like all the commotion now about going back. Why are you going back when you supposed to go forward? You know why are you going back to like slavery and think— why are you putting those things in your kid's head? You know, like, you should be going forward to move up, to improve. You shouldn't go like backward, you know? So for me, I think it doesn't matter. And to me back then, if, if my fate wasn't to marry my husband right now, which is Vietnamese, maybe if my fate �was to marry somebody might be different like my brother. He marry, you know, a white German, mixed, you know? So you can't say that you have a preference. I believe in fate. Kaitlyn: Okay [chuckles]. UmVictoria: Because my parents would love for him to marry an Asian, you know, whatever background or whatever it is. Kaitlyn: Okay. So I guess, your parents impose those views on you but you didn't really care or you didn't likeVictoria: It's not that I don't care. I respect my parents thinking and thought. But again like I say, you can't control a person's personality. And you can't control a person's mind. You can give your opinions and thought. But if they're all fate that they have to deal with. And they would have to see that themselves. And I can't speak for everybody. Kaitlyn: Yeah. Victoria: I can only speak for myself. And that's why I tell you, I truly believe in fate and I see it where, if you want to be someone, or, you know, not to be successful or whatever it is. You got to have an open mind and you have to know that this world is not just you. You, you know um, I don't want to say that God didn't bring like different colors of people for no reason. There's a reason behind everything and I think that, for me, it's more important of being united being open, being like- you have to understand people's point of view. I mean you can have your own opinion but you have to like also listen to other people's opinion. Doesn't mean that you're wrong or they're wrong. And it doesn't mean you're right or they're right. It's just, if I had, if my fate was to marry another race, then I would've been marrying another race, right? Um, but I marry my husband right now. You just have to learn to make it, not make it through in life. But you have to just to learn, like, how to deal with things when it comes. Kaitlyn: Yeah. Okay. Thank you for sharing that. Um, I guess still being on the topic of family, can you talk a little bit more about your family? Like your kids and like, where you lived? And just share like your experience with having a family in the U.S.? Victoria: Hm. To me, I think family is everything. So family comes first. And I think I've always put that in my kid's head. I don't know, you know if they're going to understand it [laughs], but I always tell them that family comes first. And I want to say I try to work hard so that I have a family, with my kids growing up where- I don't want them to be in a situation where you know digging through the trash cans or stepping on cans and selling at Safeway. So, every parent's gonna want something better for their kids. Every parent. You know what I'm saying? So, my parent might be the whatever, of course, they want the best for us but like I say, again, fate brings you to where you are. So I try hard to make stuff for �my kids where they have everything. But sometimes it's hard because we started off as um you know, you can't help it when certain situation happen. So, when I try hard back then and then I bump into a few bumps, with my life or with my fate, or with my journey- I mean, I wasn't happy with my kid living in one room when they were like five or six, you know? So I try to get my own place. You always try to work hard because everything you do I think as a parent, or for me, family comes first. So as a parent I always try to make things more for my kid. And hopefully they understand one day. Maybe sometime I'm probably rough or tough on them. Or more protective, or more secure, or whatever it is. It's only because I want good things to come out for my kids. So, I don't know how to tell you like, I mean, no parent is a perfect parent, no kids are perfect kids. And again, things happen for a reason. So by, God forbids, I'm gonna go back and tell you that I strongly believe in fate, and wherever it meant for you to be or where you are, uh that's how it's gonna be. It's just like, for example, I have cancer, I thought my life was over maybe 10 years ago. Uh 11 years ago actually, 2013. But I pray and I asked you know to stay a little longer with my kids, at least to give them enough time to grow up or to understand things or to help them a little. And God granted that or, you know, the higher up granted or whoever it is, my guardian angel, or whoever it is that granted the wish. So, I always think if you have a strong value in family, it's how your kid's gonna become. If a kid doesn't have a strong family bond, then I think they might get lost somehow on their way with their journey. You know? So I think it's important for you, as parents, to understand your kid and for your kids understand you. And it's hard sometimes for kids to understand you because they're, they grow up quick now. You know, they— how would I say it? I guess, back then we didn't grow up as fast as kids nowadays. You know like, the world is growing with new technologies so things are of course gonna be more improved. I mean it's a good thing. But I don't think schools nowadays are teaching them. Like, in school. Like before, you have handwriting classes. You don't have that in school now. And I mean, technologies is a good thing but it's only how you raise your kid and how your kids takes it, to make it the best. Kaitlyn: Okay. I’m tryna think. I guess I know you're talking a lot about your beliefs and your thoughts on how you wanna raise your kids and that's really important. And I always like to hear that, obviously. But I also want to hear about I guess, just your experience, and like, growing up Vietnamese in America . And like, was Maryland the only place you stayed? Like can you share anything about like, what it's just like being an immigrant? Victoria: Um, I can tell you being an immigrant, coming to the US, is a long way. And that's some big dreams for some people. And for some people— I guess uh because U.S. is all known as you know, freedom. And everybody, I guess, not everybody, I don't know if everybody thinks this way but communism, where the you know everything's controlled, and you don't have that freedom. So when you come to a country with freedom, of course you're going to cherish it and appreciate it and are grateful for it. So, by being an immigrant coming to the US, for me, because I came at a young age, at eight. But I know my parents always, always, say to me or always tells me, "you better be grateful, you better thank God that I brought you here", or "we brought you here." Right? And, so, that's been in my head where I know that I better appreciate. But then I also learn on my own that you appreciate things �that you don't have. So, when I see like other immigrants, now that's trying to come into the US, illegally, um that makes me kind of, I wouldn't say mad, but I think is unfair where I- we have to work our way to come here, legally. Seeking asylum and doing it the proper way. Not just like running through the border or getting on a you know, like nowadays. It's a lot of changes. So, I would say that coming here to the US during my time, you're more grateful. And you're more blessed. And you're more thankful. I can't speak that for now where the immigrant just come in now illegally, because it makes the people that's been here, you know, where they have to obey the law and pass the law and get here, like during my time or after my time. We work hard. Kaitlyn: I just, I guess I'm just like... I'm like, I'm happy that you're sharing like how you feel about things and stuff. But I guess I was wondering about just your experience, like being in the US. And not like, what you think of the other immigrants, like your own experience. Because I just wanted to knowVictoria: Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. Like, if my own experienceKaitlyn: Yeah, like, so my question, I guess, was asking, like- basically, do you have any storiesbecause I know, you came to Maryland. Like I wanted to hear more maybe about like, did you move anywhere else? Victoria: Ohhh. Kaitlyn: Did you, like how was that? Like finding your way in the US being an immigrant and things like that? If you have any stories like that. Victoria: So when you when you grow up and learning your way, umKaitlyn: Like, was it just Maryland? LikeVictoria: No, it wasn't just Maryland. I mean, I've uh go to Minnesota. Um but that's, that's like, as an immigrant, you have to learn your way around and you have to like know. But that's like not from being an immigrant, moving to Minnesota. That's like, I moved to Minnesota because after I graduate, I have a job offer. Or you know like, being like, it's like, it's like I'm telling you like, like my friend, we move to different state. And some friends go back to their own state. Um, so when I graduated from college, I moved to Minnesota because I have a job offer. So it's like, you take the best offer and you work hard and you know for me, it's like, opportunities. So it's like opportunities open, you take it. And I don't know if other immigrants feel that way but any opportunity that comes their way, they're gonna appreciate it and they're going to take it and they're gonna um you know, like, live the best out of it. And so for me, I live in Maryland all my life since I was eight, until I graduated from college. Then I moved to Minnesota for about a good 10 years, and then I moved back to Maryland! So you always go back where you came from. Um not as in country, but as in like, you know, like your parents or your family, �are there. So my family was still in Maryland. I was only one that moved to Minnesota. But that again, I tell you is because it's from- I graduate and an opportunity opened. So I want to get the experience in my first job. Get the experience so I can have it on my resume. And then I can apply for work here in Maryland. And when I went back, I mean, I have my first child in Minnesota. And then I moved back here and have the rest of my three children here in Maryland. Um, so it's, it's like— I already left my own country as a child moving to the U.S. And then I left the state that I was raised in to move to another state. So that tells you there's a big difference because once, when I left my country, it was it was not a choice. It was I have to go for the better life, or better uh, living. Or better whatever it is, that you know, at that time my parents wanted for me. So when I left the state, I had a choice. I didn't have to move to Minnesota. But I chose it because of jobs, because of opportunity. So it's more of a like, in a sense of a way where I think, like, just in general, um, maybe that's from the same feeling or thinking where if I have an opportunity, I'm going to take it. Kaitlyn: Okay. That makes sense. And I guess like with that in mind and like, I feel like there's a theme of like opportunities, freedom, and like, what America has to offer. Do you have any plans for the future? Are you thinking about anything specifically? Victoria: Um— if I had a choice and if life let me live longer, um— I would take all the opportunity given. Like if, if I can open up my own business. Or you know, that's always been a dream, that I have my own you know, um, working or my own place, that I work for myself. Um, and same thing goes for, like I say, for my children. If you know, every parent's going to want their children to be better than them. So if there's if I, if I have the time and you know if I can, if I know the future, and have choices, I would take every opportunity there is. Because I know that America have a lot to offer. Opportunities and everything else that other country might not. And um, I would actually if, if I could, I would help the people back in my country because I was given that opportunity— to have a better life. And I probably would want my children one day to know that um, like you say freedom and opportunity, that they have, that they can go a long way sharing it. And I already see that with you, my oldest child, um doing it not just because of immigrant, but you know like um, you are not an immigrant but you share like, my cancer situation. Where you pass it on and you know, like helping other kids.2 So that's the same way I feel. I mean like with immigrant um, not every immigrant want their life to be that way. They, try to you know, everybody wants to have a better life. And everybody wants freedom. And everybody wants opportunity. And everyone, you know, I think. And some people are given that, they're given choices, where they have choices. And there's people that aren't given any choices, where they have to fight, uh for it. So, if I was given like, more time? I would help. It would make me feel more better if I can help people, to think or to know, or to understand that you know that being an immigrant isn't easy. Um, It's a lot of uh, a lot of work. Not work as in like you do work physically, but a lot of challenge and like mentally and physically. And uh, every, how would I tell you? I don't want to Kaitlyn is the director of UMD’s chapter of Kesem. It is a national non-profit that supports children who are impacted by their parent’s cancer. Victoria is referring to this organization when she is talking about her cancer experiencing and Kaitlyn passing on help. 2 �separate or make the difference between immigrant and non-immigrant, I just tell you, every human beings are gonna want the best for themselves. That's I mean, my opinion. Kaitlyn: Okay. Um, awesome. Well I know that I'm taking a lot of your time up [laughs]. So we're nearing the end of the interview. But I guess I have two last questions! First one is, I'm curious to why you were interested in this interview? And is there anything else you would like to share about your immigration experience. Or about being an immigrant? I know, we have stories in our family about like, the ice cream truck. Or like, you said that you wanted to start a business but I remember stories about like the cell phone business we had. Like, is there anything you want to share, that's left? Or, you don't have to if you don't want to. Victoria: Um yeah. Like I told you, I always wanted to have a business, but there's business that fails and there's business that you know- cell phone business was not really my business. It was my dad's. And my brother's. So I just help out. That wasn't really my business. So if I have my own business one day, it might not be a cell phone business. Um, it might be something, where, maybe charity? To help you know, the poor, or you know like to go to other country to support you know like, third world country. To help childrens like myself at that age, to have better schooling, you know, like, you don't have to go through the trash can to dig for stuff or stepping on cans and, and stuff like that. Or go working at an early age that, nowadays people call uh childKaitlyn: Labor? Victoria: Labor. So there's many things but you know, like, child labor can be good or bad because child. [Alarm rings and pause in recording] Victoria: So as I was saying, child labor can be good or bad. But you know, like sometime, if child labor is a will from the child, then it’s not bad. But if it's a force or if it's have to, then it's bad. But that's just an opinion again like I say. Like, but selling ice cream with my dad. That was my dad's business too. Ice cream truck. So I have to like help out working after school. Um, every day go sell ice cream until like eight-nine o'clock, come home and still have homework. That's like an Asian culture where I tell you back in the days, where from my parents’ generation, not my generation, but my parents’ generation. In Asia it's always, you respect the elder and whatever say goes. Right? So that's a communism country. But you know, like— I think in most country to not just Asia, uh because I have some um, Hispanic friends or co-workers that they say they always respect their elder. They never like dare to speak back or whatever it is. Um, but I don't know if it's every culture are like that. Like America is freedom. The kids can say whatever they want, or how they feel. Because again, the word is freedom. They have too much freedom. But it's, it's, it's, it's like how I would say like— if like, I can't express it to you. But I can tell you that, just be glad. I am glad that I have the opportunity, the freedom, and the will �to do what I want to do. And I was- and I am grateful and thankful, um that I was given that opportunity and freedom to do so um, by coming here, to the U.S. And I would want to pass that along to many generation after me, to know that um, or to teach my kid that um, or to let my kid know that it's not easy. From my parents to me, to their generation might be a little easier. But of course, that's what every parent want. It’s easier and easier for the next generation, right? But when it gets out of hand and control where um, when it gets too easy, I think the kids doesn't— take it in as uh, being grateful anymore. They don't appreciate things. I don't know if you understand what I'm saying. Like they don't appreciate things. You don't learn to appreciate things until it's too late. Or you don't learn to appreciate things unless it happens to you. So um, if I have, uh to do it all over again, coming to the US, as uh, I wouldn't regret it. Kaitlyn: Okay. Alright. WellVictoria: It's like an experience. Kaitlyn: Yeah, I don't really have any more questions. I guess my last one is, what was it like to share your story? Victoria: I'm glad that you asked me to be in this interview, because I like to share my story so that people know that, not every immigrant is bad, or not every immigrant is good. It's how that human being bring themself um like, here. Or bring themselves to be known. Or how they treat others and themself. It's like, I'm glad that I share that um, I'm glad that you offer me this interview because it's kinda like, I want to share my point of view as being an immigrant. It's not easy on an immigrant, um, because they have to learn second language first of all. Second of all, when they come, not everything is free. They have to work for it. Um, so it's like, it's not easy? But it's not hard because you're given the freedom and opportunity and there- I know that there are some people out there that take advantage of it. And um, and that are not grateful. But for me, as a Vietnamese, or raised child or Asian, you call it uh, raised by my parents generation. Uh, It's a lot harder than then the new generation these days. Because uh like I say, as each day we improve. You know, we learn, we expand. So— if you go back in the old days, I would say I like to share that. If you as a human being, love yourself, think yourself, believe in faith. Believe in, you know fate, and things happen for a reason, and be more open minded to things instead of closure, um then I think you would be okay. Uh, anywhere you go. Even like, you know, other country, not just the U.S. Kaitlyn: Okay. Well, I think that’s all I have. I’m gonna ask one more time if you wanna share anything else but other than that, yeah. Victoria: Um— I just wanna share that, I, like I told you um, you’re probably gonna hear it over and over again, that I think, I can’t speak for other immigrants but I know that we are all grateful and we are �blessed, and we love America. Uh because, we are given that freedom and opportunity to be here. And to grow ourself, and to make life better for our children. And I hope society, uh, doesn’t take any difference in what status you are or what nationality you are, or you know like uh, who you are. But like, they would take you know like, into consideration that we’re all humans. We all have blood running through us and that we all should love each other. Uh, you know, love doesn’t mean like, intimately or whatever it is. But like care, you know like, like if we, if we appreciate each other and work together I think this country will probably be the strongest country. Because it’s, it’s already there. But it’s just, it’s just getting, I don’t know. Ever since COVID, or ever since whatever it is, it’s uh, it’s like going backwards and not forward. Victoria: Um, so I would like to share that um[Pause in recording] Victoria: I guess in one short sentence, that I can say, that um, I’m happy and I’m grateful, and thankful for your interview. And to share my thought of um, of my stories, um it’s like if I go on with stories from a little kid until now, you gonna have many and I can have many. Um, but the one thing that I’m blessed is that, I’m here in the U.S. now and this is my country. Um it doesn’t matter, you know, you left your country for a reason. So when you’re in this country, you need to make this country, your country. You shouldn’t like um, separate, make separations of you know, you know “your country, my country.” If you, if you left, I believe one good thing is that I learned, is that if you’re gonna leave your country to come to another country, you need to appreciate that country that you’re in. And um, I guess that’s all I can say, for myself. I don’t know if other people might think that way, um but they should, because why are you gonna um, talk about the country that you left, right? Um the reason you left, because, that country wasn’t good for you. So you came here to the U.S., you migrate here to the U.S., you should be grateful and thankful, and make this your country. And I just hope that in the future, where my kids um, well you know, I’m just being honest. My kids, your kids, the new generation kids, is all in one and united. And I think just because you have black hair, or your skin color, or whatever it is, you were born here in this country. That means you are the U.S., you know citizen. You are an American. And I still think, until this day, I believe that many people still have separations, of whatever color, whatever your skin color is, whatever your races is, you’re different. And I believe that there is no different. And all in one say is that you’re human beings. And there’s blood in you. And I think everyone here should be united like it say, united, you know? One country. It’s many different color to be one. Not just White or Black or you know, Asian, or whatever it is. It’s all together. So— migrating to the U.S. is one of um, of many immigrant dreams. And I’m thankful for my dad for bringing me over. And I hope my kids are thankful that they’re born here, and realize that later too. That’s all I can say. Kaitlyn: Okay. Thank you! That was uh, that was, you said one short sentenceVictoria: Oh, sorry. �[Both laugh] Kaitlyn: No, I’m kidding. I’m just kidding, umVictoria: Well you have to combine that now because I’m not good with words. Kaitlyn: It’s okay. It’s okay. [Continues to laugh] Um, okay! Thank you for doing the interview. Love you! Victoria: Love you too. [hugging] Victoria: Thank you for having me. Kaitlyn: [Laughs] Okay, alright, that’s it! Nothing else right? Do you have anything else, or that’s it? [Laughs] Victoria: I don’t really have anything else. I’m just, I’m just grateful you asked me to interview and asked me, finally let my feelings out, andKaitlyn: Okay. Victoria: Telling you how I feel, you know. Kaitlyn: Yeah! Victoria: So thank you. Kaitlyn: That’s it then, alright. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kaitlyn Kim Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Victoria Truong Location The location of the interview Maryland, USA Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Victoria Truong Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Kaitlyn Kim Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 5, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Description An account of the resource This interview between Victoria Truong and Kaitlyn Kim explore Truong’s personal experiences and perspectives on immigration, highlighting the adversity of leaving a communist country in search of a better life. Truong discussed her experiences as a Vietnamese refugee in the US throughout her childhood, young adulthood, and adult life. She shares stories about her family dynamics and her difficult upbringing due to her socioeconomic status. Her strong belief in freedom and opportunity explains her appreciativeness for America, and throughout the interview Truong reiterates how she is grateful for where she is today, despite all the hardships she has faced. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR400 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Colleen Woods of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, mp4, jpeg Asia communism escape family reunification fate Freedom language Opportunity parents refugee Vietnam https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/f006ac2d9990bc30f4586c671ba56eb4.png?Expires=1789603200&Signature=NnDg4%7EovF9HxWuJm%7ELmeIRvtZuuF%7EMqzjEZvZ4BN6WRAcRVNQ2cGy3derFlYA-O-8O9bY5mA-AkfpW3JgCAHfWlUq2swjNEbUvfAg0AEAaLHTqdVLfdhdG7HOr8pJGIF9b6kuTPt3YyB%7EAfOdhc2T4xu6JfzJuBIlBGNpx0v6rUD6E-b6fYUYh8%7EOaUKr-gUFcWoaywhOFeaAoM5a5iK1uCScQtcwLy56NleEIiAkQMdZlvbYUQR1tDoGwuQekEQgnLaZOoAnKIPKXEienvDqML3jVNBEGraHc64kH3HyIFwk45fhPPMu4KFiVg1xkmCcQiN4ckADtCGtnYoRkl3qA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bala Govindaraju Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Vasanthi Kandsamy Location The location of the interview <span xml:lang="en-us" lang="en-us" class="TextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0"><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0">Clarksville</span><span class="NormalTextRun SCXW171178747 BCX0">, Montgomery Country, Maryland, United States</span></span><span class="EOP SCXW171178747 BCX0"> </span> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Vasanthi Kandsamy Description An account of the resource This interview between Bala Govindaraju and Vasanthi Kandsamy discusses Vasanthi’s experience growing up in India and migration to the United States. Vasanthi recounts her experience in the Indian educational system, family relationships, and labor migration. She also considers her racial-ethnic identification in India and the US. Vasanthi reflects on the difficulties communicating with family back home and family reunification. Throughout the discussion, Vasanthi shares how much had changed since her migration -- from the city side to increasing educated migrants moving to foreign countries for better opportunities. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR400 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Colleen Woods of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bala Govindaraju Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 7, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Dharmapuri education family India maryland visa work https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/0d35d49fda04169d03882026be9edb67.png?Expires=1789603200&Signature=D6tWMxAscPyOzIcRCJA5XnpmVjCnTohe0jHVrtVlCr7Xl9iLiq8lUaU%7EuDYFhbYnLWKfoekCTpTQVcqBzR7w1crYLaZYs7kiwWKQz%7EZ12KweTP0LzHQtJUVS0-l0eWkHuwMVXcs1Cg84Gmh75k7qGjfNOJXYkW2EB--uJaRapwr-z8B0dW%7E0NcaV%7ERUqaXhvsoq6UxsHmTC3f9jq-qd8lHmxJ8Wf4oG6K9lJHx5cihgeH0crZGcqEtpzRQzForjNK3lPpoM5lCrHogQJ3dYNt7y3iatsVkKaS18sHT0thDH4RyIghayaXav8F3pMX8oy9ZOCHiu1CVN%7EwSpQHGEJrQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2023 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jade Shaw Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Suet Vu Location The location of the interview Rockville, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Suet Vu Description An account of the resource In this interview, Jade Shaw interviews Suet Vu and her experience as a young immigrant from Hong Kong to America. Suet Vu immigrated when she was 11 years old to Potomac, Maryland, and battled middle school as a non-English speaking immigrant with no friends or help. In time she was able to immerse herself and form an American identity, but later as an adult, she had to face the Anti-Asian semitism that came with COVID-19, which made her feel out of place. In this interview, we break down even more details about her life such as her childhood in Hong Kong, her family and children, her jobs in America, long-distance friendships that originated in Hong Kong, and most importantly, how happy she is to have been through it all. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2023). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jade Shaw Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 12, 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History city English family Hong Kong school https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/e3f91fbe2a816fa0c1a45087550a1999.JPG?Expires=1789603200&Signature=aRufFDmDAw7PEBrNy-skUFnTwvKEJsCOMn0yV4-y5it4y%7E2bFYCt5g5Dj2df50-55buZu9eM0D4nBE3ti3ioscOSO%7EvoDG3masyUhDAm9QWRYfdeyu32Qkx4Ku3dg2R1vjHGKhqCZPVrsUMvHTjCv77w6ohLZp8hepDAnaE9RmmY-bgCNMtA3-LorJEA0rTGUavA499fYuzR5HUc-nC7wk4QBuAHOmGYExZ8zo4aJfIc5FfP3kpgTBhKxdXGUPke3Bxt9KlI7dScxr-HrQa0yEXVTaErGsynTcg%7EwYo0yjED15CB870wXSwkdN0LoaJGcaKod4VKstaESF0M4vJtCw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM e2a075845502b7da22d0ac4794a29abc Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alyson Lynch and Silvia Nuñez Fowler https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/ab042a1a9d4bb16626437c6566ca99da.m4a?Expires=1789603200&Signature=BJ5rzw6bDtlvTtVuL2VEb4zoSIodqslsqKL-dSebz1rvjMKiBln8w-PxXWIepRQbKgjmkgtvPHX8ZHLnRWurexTUthUieznRnCFxheIjC%7ER9EreI%7EbB%7E-8Q7VdAHcwyvC6IPKvU-mMTUtVpBpzCfkX0QzRkEsMtJA-2gK5T1iyFLLrQJnyQYUFOGEI%7EeB0ZkkxojEgSW%7EFguk-C%7EbvTKaiLdwvWRzxA8YgCJsc-fzc511XF5CBwUGARBZJ7NZtK4MuZGaeqTMzSesEMZ%7EbhbkA%7EMzBTkwA-sGBAVllmh5Mr4GkVkVOSmEzG8qmV0JUhE2PLwcLgsoAWh%7EVDXOjGCZA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 213ce0dc79802dfd1b317386bc5a056b https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/002b55435f4c26a90b632f4e4b81960e.pdf?Expires=1789603200&Signature=L97KjCWYdSeHnwkAny3dxClhFuxI43Pceiasl6khRojiZKos%7E1pY1wiTIDczVB9cjKomxPI55XFH3JoG77qGy99KKqaa7d6jWYdBWUKEaWHmN%7EahOjNw9N-U4tATJ8aiIZI4FK2O63b1zrGZnVfpzcXHyZFP3ovPWhAAPe5ShANagwl-xy-zVa8RCMabpq5f-3b9g6yOqXhwvOgk-KM-YS%7ENsHwTco0Vi6VZyJsWJ9OfmSomJCjx5extXQN-D0mX6gLHAkATp8-Z1PT5-i4pav2iIJ3XADc3UQtU647V-tn86aiNeOm7HLjmbE3qc3ioTi1WlpuVDQbrsCIfUhZ3qg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 5a30d8c04347b6ddbe2be84648c81ae1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2015 Interviews Description An account of the resource This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST428M: "Foreigners as Citizens: Recording Oral Histories of Immigration" (Spring 2015). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the History Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies (formerly the Center for the History of the New America). Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies (formerly the Center for the History of the New America) Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Spring 2015 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of these oral history interviews were given by the interviewees to the University of Maryland, College Park. These interviews may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Mary A. Lynch Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Silvia Nuñez Fowler Location The location of the interview Salem, Virginia, U.S.A. Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 51:57 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Silvia Nuñez Fowler Subject The topic of the resource Silvia Nuñez Fowler describes her education in an American school in Tegucigalpa, Honduras as well as her eventual immigration to the United States in 1954. Her account also illuminates the shift in demographics and race relations in the United States. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST428M: "Foreigners as Citizens: Recording Oral Histories of Immigration" (Spring 2015). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the History Department, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for the New America. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for the History of the New America Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 18, 2015 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio: MPEG-4 Text Transcript: PDF Language A language of the resource English Central America education family Honduras memory Women Women's History https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/d3924d8607873d26e337ca2175ce215e.png?Expires=1789603200&Signature=CavjVDsSGYhJBWsig8Kd%7EhXma2w9Gk0AuHa6-CEs9lj04Ps8ZwCJP3KzxfL4nfBHXq8Jn1MiyE4FmeSGJUdIau8UxFQWWkkesZ2Frc84o8fmW7YOXWW6bffK0Oex39WZoVwGTO5jxP95GMpL2bE4Sz6WOB5stYBJ1gTdj%7EBvmACf7Ia7Yafp7Y46pciPfSVW02hbPm0JU8AeqE7B1LkZwBAF%7EAxgy8gum1XSaOU9kE13eq4UsDXp9-cg1FCvzBPG-ujzaQZzTms5naaXI15gDVHLZsaqGaZjlRr1shTM9s8%7EmEOJHQ4a2NElgAVcpbPNRk12zMEwi4-ugzALX0JhaA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sydney Black Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Samuel Price (pseudonym) Location The location of the interview College Park, Maryland, Prince George’s County, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Samuel Price (pseudonym) Description An account of the resource This interview between Sydney Black and Samuel Price (pseudonym) explores Price’s path of immigration from Dominica to the United States. Samuel is a graduate student in his mid-30s. In this interview, he shares his experiences living in Dominica, Florida, Trinidad, and Maryland. Price’s interview covers experiences with racism, shifts in identity, racial and ethnic presentation, and open-mindedness. ***This interview (transcript only) is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sydney Black Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 8, 2024 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Caribbean Dominica friends music race school https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/2ddb508b99677e148f72481466097897.png?Expires=1789603200&Signature=plgN4arCQPCsAVk4ajrtYhOWRUDekuG2zQqym%7EkmMIIcT0EWUdv5NBXjmFWxMpwr44oV7oNClqN0jRentsUhcNXmKlMovTzPBmuq1pVQbkW%7EQG1u28pF4A-Gwu5HOUB7AoPSlsqwyKOdPUOZxqll7CW-UQQGq9v5Ujr%7EBYPGWLvt1bjFqc52jfHJXugmJebvECBVDnu89uGwN9EMcZc%7EMCsZMD3vBPnHWZlLG0m6wNLH5oESrQ664VwCXZ0IaaT576xODpOhn%7E-eKR4F1KyywPnGkS5z1skUSXcGojzx6uPpVfHtCGR%7EitkoBQkhJGLa18ZzliKtv-u1I3jGZ1gbGg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2023 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Avani R. Katre Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ratnakar Katre Location The location of the interview Clarksburg, Maryland Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Ratnakar Katre Description An account of the resource This interview between Avani Katre and her father, Ratnakar Katre, delves into his childhood, overcoming the struggles of poverty, and finding his way to America to build a life for him and his family. He explains the difficulties of attaining his education and of finding a job in his chosen career field as well as the unique challenges of chasing ambition from rural India. The interview also explores the experiences of an immigrant coming on a work visa and becoming a naturalized citizen, hinting at the exploitation by companies of these immigrants. Throughout the interview Ratnakar focuses on his work ethic, his ambition, and gratefulness even in the face of all his struggles in both India and the U.S. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2023). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Avani R. Katre Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 12, 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History education H1B India jobs Poverty https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/8cca7d31e217957d9ddde97018b966dc.png?Expires=1789603200&Signature=MWQbAhQmncNcKm6RdBH9ycwvpehvULTi0RaEXTe9znQmHYYqNHVLdOGb--PmRfWWmwrt77Janthv7uFt3rKo9kbVUlMjx2hikPziLnBt2kwn1c-LKfqvjLywqv0P%7EPcvutgfV9GtX5587SHBiuqJJv8Azj9PZhJBCi8yKreiWwbDkUu3j1ykO2n5Z6AeNsjEL35l3I4Z2HdmRj4vysryyLLAbk9ZJ95uSMdmOxagVppGfmAwTWQGy3PCdG5-PLZM553-lbqlMwzcp7%7E5BEWI-TEwH-v0wx5LWjEiHoVhbRoZx9fzyMi1ySswwIqd3GVApMk51Vnuq8Cz%7Ev1P2ltOZw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/2752c0eac564ebd3d5bcea2666dee46e.pdf?Expires=1789603200&Signature=O9Ar811u%7ECEloJLnwyxzBjvN33QMJ3bEuWG248ii6CM2zPx13GQDPr893KSOjxv0LCaDU26b0bQHtgiB%7Et7FyMxf-lBCjHFFnfsk8Jw8Ef83kt1w-RwzX8RLNvnW-BBj9pBSusaazvvWn1haXUiDBKuMo3eADDWEHKilvuz2ITZDEOmFkKrB8fYjViPtnIAQmVQc0icUHQn5c-2-Yej0baLMf943sMkK%7EGH516yors1x5cwhF4kC1ZL2%7EbdS%7ERzDcCwluin%7E7Vc%7EqvmuzdBGHLk%7E-xJ5kKu6j-mQkGCvfL0F8XagDGtascc67cCHaNBvVJYMikGpnhmCgsK8DMer9A__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 1aa27daef38d4470f2448dc277fd02fe PDF Text Text Transcript of Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland IMMR400- Spring 2024 Instructor: Dr. Colleen Woods Interviewer’s Name: Claire O’Donnell Interviewee’s Name: Oleg Obolensky Interviewee’s County of Origin: Russia Interviewee’s Current Residence: Rockville, Montgomery Country, Maryland, United States Date of Interview: April 10, 2024 Place of Interview: In Person, College Park, Prince George’s County, Maryland, United States [via Voice Memo] Introduction: This interview between Claire O’Donnell and Oleg Obolensky discusses Oleg’s journey from Russia to the United States in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to complete postdoc research for one year on a J-1 visa. After he returned back to Russia, Oleg then traveled back to Pittsburgh to continue his research with an NSF NATO funded grant opportunity. In Pittsburgh, Oleg had his first son; then, he returned to Russia after one and a half years after his grant expired. After four months in Russia, Oleg moved to Frankfurt, Germany to work at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies. After remaining in Germany for a few years and having his second child, once Oleg’s first son reached school age, his family moved to permanently settle in Rockville, Maryland, where he currently works at the National Institute of Health. By mapping and sharing his immigration journey, Oleg describes assimilation into the United States compared to Germany and living through the collapse of the Soviet Union. Throughout this discussion, Oleg discusses how he received each work opportunity as being based on “luck”, presenting a theme of things happening to him by chance. Oleg’s story offers insights into how after the Fall of the Soviet Union, scientific collaboration between scientists in Russia, the United States, and Germany worked together to bridge research. In turn, these insights reveal how each scientific endeavor influenced Oleg’s immigration story. Keywords: Russia, Pittsburgh, Germany, Rockville, Physics, Science, Research, Opportunity, Soviet Union, Visa, Family �Claire: Thank you so much for agreeing to participate in this interview today. Before I begin, I would like to clarify that this interview will be recorded, transcribed and published in the Maryland Archive of Immigrant Voices. However, you have the option to have your name be omitted from the transcription and if you would like, you can read through the transcription yourself and request that certain information be left out of the published version after the interview. Would you like to be anonymous on the published version of this interview? Oleg: No. Claire: No? Okay, sounds good. Let's begin. So, thank you so much for agreeing to meet with me today and participate in this interview. Can we begin by having you state your name, age and tell me a little bit about yourself and your background? Oleg: My name is Oleg Obolensky, I’m 51 years old, uh (pause) no background? Claire: Like background? Oleg: Alright. I'm a (pause) staff scientist at the National Institute of Health. I'm educated as a theoretical physicist in, uh, St. Petersburg, Russia. And I worked as a theoretical physicist for many years and then at some point I came to the U.S. to be biophysicist. Claire: (pause) Thank you for that. So to begin, I would like to ask you questions about your childhood experiences and young adult life in Russia. So, I understand that you grew up in St. Petersburg. Can you tell me, um, about any stories that you have from your hometown? Oleg: Well, that's too general question. What kinds of stories? – Claire: – anything about growing up in that city, so like, what was it like for you? Anything like that? Anything you fondly remember? Oleg: Well, it was the typical Soviet large city. St. Petersburg is considered like the most, uh, educated, uh, and culture centered city in Russia. Uh, so it is an industrial city but it also has a lot of, uh, research and education, uh, centers and, uh, uh (pause) the citizens are proud to consider themselves, uh, culturally advanced – if you can say so – people. So, uh, so basically, if you don't take, uh, like suburbs where all the industry, uh, was located, you would end up with a lot of research institutions and uh people who were there were interested in, in culture, music theater, general, I don’t know, general knowledge, and that would be considered a cool thing to know about. �Claire: Can you expand a bit more on what like, so you mentioned there being a lot of culture, you mentioned theater and you mentioned art, and then you also mentioned industry being an important quality and it being a Soviet city. Could you expand a bit more on the culture aspect and then, like maybe later, talk about how it differentiates in like a Soviet city? Oleg: Well, Soviet city, I mean, it was typical for the time. Uh, the difference was that people there, uh, tend to pay more attention to culture, so as a kid, I was taken to theater and concerts regularly, even if I didn't want to (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) – Oleg: – uh, I didn't like Opera and [inaudible word] uh – the only thing I was, uh, so I was still not taken, not frequently, I resisted, but, uh, in the intermissions they would serve you like small sandwiches with caviar and uh like delicious sweets. So that was, (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) – Oleg: – I remember but I did like going to theater performances. It was both like for children and also like normal adult place– Claire: –Yeah. How often would you say that you went to these theater and opera performances? Oleg: Uh, I would say at least once a month, maybe more. Claire: That's cool. So, I was wondering if you could spend a bit more on what life was like growing up in the Soviet Union specifically. I know you mentioned a lot about like industry and that aspect of city life. Could you expand a bit more on that? Oleg: Well, industry, it was relatively high tech, uh, industry. So we lived, uh, actually across the street from a large plant called Svetlana and it was developing, uh, like, uh, optics, actually very high quality optics, which would be comparable to like, uh, [inaudible word] in Germany, and so they doing some space communication systems. And so my granddad worked in the Research Institute, uh, and they were also doing something, uh, related to, uh, communication, like regular electronic communication something, which I didn't understand and I suspect half of it was, uh, secret, so I don't know exactly what they were doing, but it was in some that direction. Claire: Interesting. So you mentioned, was that your father or your grandparents? Oleg: That was my maternal granddad. �Claire: Okay, cool. Um, how did your family and people around you discuss things, um, like the Soviet Union and things like that? And particularly, like, the fall of the Soviet Union, as well? Do you remember any like distinct things that shifted or anything? Oleg: Uh, well, I was too young, I just didn't know like, overheard what adults would say. Yeah. So my impression was that, uh, before the Perestroika1, 1985, uh, like late years for Brezhnev2, and then he was replaced by, uh, I forgot the name. There were like two old guys between him and Gorbachev3. One was KGB chief4 on drop off and there was some, also old but more like progressive, guy, but they were both very short lived. Anyway, so before that real fall of the Soviet Union, before Perestroika, my recollections were that people would tend to be, uh, moderately critical of the current, uh, political structure, uh, they could not imagine what else can be in place of the current structure, but they would criticize inefficiencies, uh, like, I don’t know, there were shortages of certain stuff in the stores, uh, there were inefficiencies of how schools are run, roads are bad, and so forth, so, and that the governance structure was that uh you have like, regular administrative uh government structure, like basically Mayor office and you have then some municipal, uh, entities, and they should take care of everyday stuff, garbage collection, what not. And then you had party, Communist Party, which would oversee that. So, in principle, you could go if you are not happy how your garbage is collected, then you would go to this municipal, uh, uh, government and say, I don't know, the garbage people don't do their job properly. So if it doesn't help, then you go to the party. And then the party would somehow apply pressure to make it, uh, better. So people could not imagine that it can be somehow different. And the criticism was mainly, uh, pointed at, you know, it's those small, everyday, uh, annoyances. And then, after Perestroika, it is, it was becoming quite rapidly worse and worse and people would complain that Perestroika led to collapse of a great state where people leave typically had no big problems at least, and now everything is just falling apart. And it was getting worse and worse. And the, uh, the worst time was like beginning of 90s. Claire: Okay. So, you said the beginning of 90s was when people were starting to complain that things were getting worse and worse – 1 During Perestroika, Mikhail Gorbachev attempted to reduce the influence of the Communist party in the Soviet Union by decentralizing power from communist leadership and re-directing these authorities towards local control. Although Gorbachev’s policies failed and deprived him of a political power base due to the Soviet Union’s corrupted economy, Perestroika led to increasing public revelations about the Soviet Party, inciting nationalist and independence movements inside and outside of the U.S.S.R. 2 Lenoid Brezhnev was the General Secretary of the Soviet Union from 1980-1982. Brezhnev’s leadership is remembered for improving the Soviet Union’s national standing while also stabilizing the position of his ruling party. 3 Mikhail Gorbachev was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in 1985-91, serving as president of Russia in 1990-91. Under his policies of Perestroika, his efforts led to the fall of communism in Russia. 4 The KGB was the Committee for State Security in the Soviet Union, responsible for foreign intelligence and domestic security agencies. �Oleg: – No, they would start after Perestroika. First of all, some of, some of them were conservative and they didn't like change. They would say what he's doing, uh, uh, he would, uh, destroy the relatively well functioning system, uh, why at all he needs to do that and so forth. Other, so, but most people would welcome that because they wanted, uh, uh, some kind of democracy. So they wanted that, uh, you know, in the newspapers in Soviet times, it was like a cryptic code. So you always had more or less the same, uh, headlines, same contents of the paper and the difference were on, in various small nuances and people will read that and they will try to deduce what's going on based on change of adjectives (pause) if it is like (pause) “brilliant” or “just talented.” (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) Interesting. So you mentioned a lot about how like, like, “they believed” or like “they said.” Um, how old were you during this time period? And like, how did you form this perception of like, what was going on around you? Or was this understanding more like things you picked up later on in life? Oleg: Uh, Well, I was, at the beginning of Perestroika, I was 12. Uh, and, um, my parents would invite relatives and friends from time to time, and they would, uh, sit, you know, at the table, eat and discuss stuff and I would go around and I had nothing else to do. Uh. Some of my uncles would play with me in, uh, table soccer or something like that. Table hockey. Uh, so I was like, in the same room. So we had only two rooms, one was my bedroom and my sister's bedroom, we were in the same room. Uh, and the other room was like a bigger room, it was parents room and living room together. So we didn't have a separate living room. So we've had just two rooms like you what would call it here, one bedroom. Claire: Okay. That's a great point to sort of segway into more like talking about your family. I was wondering if you could talk a bit more about your family. Um, what was your family dynamic like growing up? Oleg: (sigh) (pause) Well it was a normal family. (laughs) I had, uh, my both parents worked. Uh, My dad, well, my dad, uh, by education he was uh an architect (pause). Architect and like civil engineer or something like that. So he would work uh like normal, regular hours, nine to five. When I was very little he worked, uh, in relatively unusual place, he was, I don't know how it's called, he was like, uh, person responsible for all the engineering parts of big, one of the most famous Russian theaters, actually. So he wouldn't do any, you know, uh anything connected to the place, performances, but he will do all this, uh, technical support, like how you get smoke on the scene, and if they need something to fall down, how you do that safely, and so forth. So how everything functions. Uh, but later on he, but, still, I was too young, I don't remember that much. But later on, he would work from nine to five, he went to the, uh, like, it was called Institute – I �don't know you will not call it institute here – It was some organization which did, uh, architectural development for the whole city. So they would design buildings, they had architects, engineers, whatever, and they would do the whole cycle, like all the utilities you need for that building, they will calculate how much you need to work from where to take the water, electricity, they will design the building and so forth. My mom was, uh, school teacher and she worked more or less irregular hours, so she would go to school in the morning, and then she could stay on and off if she had some events there, like teacher parents meetings or she would come home early but then she would check homework. I had an older sister, five and a half years, who I fought a lot, but loved. Uh, so [inaudible phrase], I think we lived pretty happily. My grandparents lived in the same city and, uh, whenever I was sick, my parents would drive me, actually we took a taxi, maybe drove sometimes, I remember both ways actually. They would just send me to my grandparents and I would stay there for a week while I was sick. Maybe half the time, not every time maybe, but sometimes (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) Thank you for sharing that, um, well growing up did you have any close friends around you? What were they like? Oleg: I have a childhood friend whom I befriended, well uh, you know what dacha is? So in the 1960s, maybe late 50s, uh, government decided first that, uh, agricultural, uh, sector of Soviet economy was not doing well enough, not efficient enough. So they wanted first to get some extra source of uh food for the population. Plus, they wanted uh people to have something to do in their spare time, rather than you know, think about democracy (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) – Oleg: – but this is like later reconstruction, but the fact is that in starting from late 50s, maybe early 60s, they will, started giving away parcels of land to whoever wanted them and usually it was done through the organizations where people worked. So my granddad, uh, institute got a parcel of land, and distributed it among the people who were there. So my granddad, uh, got a piece of land and they built a house there, and it was like summer residence. So, especially in the beginning, it was prohibited to build like two stories building, it should be only one story, and they tried to discourage people from staying, uh, like in the winter months, so it was supposed to be only like from spring to the fall, and, uh, later it became looser enforced, uh, but, uh, so we had like a small house and we would come there every summer. And I, uh, I found a friend, uh, when I was, I don't know, five, six years old. So we would meet every summer we would spend there two three months, like from from the early till the night, uh, and at that time, people didn't, uh, try to control the whereabouts of their children as much as they do now, so the only thing I needed was to show up a dinner (laughs) say Mom, I'm still alive (laughs) Give me some food. Sometimes we will do even like eat together, so I will not come home. I will eat at my friend's �house. Uh, so we will just spend two months relatively freely, so that was the best time of my whole year at that time. Claire: That sounds really nice. How did you, like your relationships with family and also friendships, change as you began to like grow up into your young adult years? Oleg: (pause) I don’t know. Claire: You don’t know? Oleg: Nothing changed. Claire: Okay. Um, so, at what age did you first decide to immigrate to the United States? Oleg: Let's see. (pause) 36, I guess. Claire: 36? Oleg: Yes. Claire: Okay, um, so what did you like, what did you do after like you graduated high school and everything like before you decided to move to the United States? Oleg: Well, since, as I told you, we lived in a, uh, part of the city which was like highly educated, It was unthinkable not to go to university. So the only question was, uh, which one? And, uh, at that time, you could not apply to different universities. You should pick one. Submit your documents there, then, uh, you should hold exams, and then you are either admitted or not. So if you're not, then it's kind of catastrophe. Because, uh, first of all, it's unthinkable not to go to school and second, uh, it happens right after school and then, uh, then if you are not at the university, then you are conscript so you automatically go to the army, which nobody wanted. Claire: So to clarify, if you didn't get into university you’d automatically – Oleg: – then you're 18 years old, and uh, (pause) so, uh, the only reason for you not to be drafted, was to be at the university or work for some, uh, like military establishment. So if you didn't get into university then you may want it doesn't matter. Okay. So you are 18 years old. And this is full, and you're drafted. Claire: Okay. So what did you decide to study? �Oleg: Well, I wanted to study physics all my life. Claire: Why physics? Oleg: Because I wanted to know how things work. My, I, think it's influence of my granddad, uh, who would read with me, uh, like science, popular books about mathematics and physics. And they were quite entertaining. And, uh, I like them. Uh, and I don't know, since age five, I remember that I wanted to be a physicist, uh, that's because between our house and my grandparents house there was a bus route, uh, number 38, I still remember, and the, the endpoint uh of this route was Youth institute, which I later realized it was actually only like, off campus location, not main campus, but still on this, uh, tablet where you have this uh route number, one of the endpoints was this Youth Institute. And I remember I was five years old, I was going home from my grandparents, I’d remember this plate and I told my uh, that, I don't remember who was there, and I said, when I grew up, I will work in this Youth Institute and turned out I did (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) So what is that Institute? Like, what do you, what did you do? What did they do? Oleg: It is a part of Russian Academy of Sciences. And it does research. Uh, nowadays, it is mostly solid state and like semiconductor physics. Claire: So why do you think, like, that sign, like spoke to you at age five? Oleg: I don't know. (Pause) Well, I remember I asked what it is they told me, this is a good known, known, well known physical institution. And I said okay, I will work there. Claire: So kind of jumping forward a little bit. I'd like to transition to discuss more about your first immigration to the United States. You said you were 36, um – Oleg: – No. I did not immigrate to the United States. I was a postdoc. Claire: Postdoc? Oleg: Yeah, so I, uh, so I finished, uh high school. I went to, uh, university. Uh, and it's like here when you are in high school years, you already thinking about what university you would choose. Here you have some flexibility, there you are in a much more restricted situation. So you have to think even harder. So finally, we found a school, which had, uh, deep, uh, like deeper physics curriculum and it was connected to electrotechnical university. And (pause) I, I had to change schools, so I had to take a bus to get to the school, it wasn't, so, uh, in Russia, there are �no school buses. So you just, but there are more schools than here. They're smaller, but there are, there are more of them. Claire: Okay. Oleg: So you would just, uh, usually you have to walk to school it's I don't know two blocks three blocks away, at most. But I switched the school and I had to take bus and that school had this physics program and they had their graduates like better prepared and they had connections to that, uh, Institute. And then (pause), when I was in that school, I found out that, uh, at that university where I was going to live. That I actually don't remember clearly, maybe it was I knew about this, but I think it was, maybe I was just lucky. So when, at that school, and when we started going to that university like for after hours classes and some extra curriculum activities, I found out that there is one group, uh, (pause) which is based at this Youth Institute, so which is like attached to that Youth Institute. So it was like, uh, department which was organized by, at the time, not but now he's a Nobel Prize winner, Zhores Alferov who was head of the department there and since he was young scientist, he wanted to raise students to become scientists from like very early stage. So he organized this department at that university, electrotechnical university, and they will try to get the most, uh, uh, like promising students and they would, and who want to be scientists, and they will educate them at that department. So I learned that there is such a department And I, uh, uh, I signed up and I was chosen, uh, for that department and then we would start like uhh dividing our time between the regular university and this Youth Institute. So we would have regular classes like philosophy, history, P.E., whatever at the main university but all our, uh, major related classes were at the youth institute. Claire: Okay. Oleg: So we would spend – I don't know – three day there and two days at the University. Claire: Okay. Oleg: So I started working at the Youth Institute, like trying to do research since I was like a third year student, maybe even before that. Yeah, well, we started going there like from our first year, but first three years, but first I remember, so my friends at the University he had, his uncle, was quite famous physicist who created u, he was experimentalist, he created uh uh um (pause) scientific waves for uh transient industry in soviet union,you know, peinjunctions, LED, you know, led (pause) LED lights, pointed, you know whatever you have in city, players, everywhere, whatever you see in red spot now it can be blue or green. So, this is radiational in your remote control. This is, uh, radiation emitted when electrons go through, uh, the connection of two different materials to uh, different semiconductors so when they go through that, uh, junction they make light. It can be red light, it can be infrared light, your remote, uh, but uh, that �guy he created, uh, this, uh like he was, uh, scientific advisor when, uh, in Soviet Union they started semiconductor industry. So he put us, uh, uh, in a lab from our first year, but the only tasks we were trusted to was doing securital aux. I remember it was our project, it was a two story lab, big lab, and they wanted to open the door, uh, not going down but, uh, so we did the wiring and all the stuff, but since third year we started doing more, uh, science, like real science. And, uh, we were, uh, like, immersed into these activities. So I knew all the scientists in our department and after I graduated from the university, I went to what you would call a Ph. D program. And at that time I worked, uh, uh, I mean like a normal scientist already. And, uh, after you do your Ph. D, you, uh, it's normal to do a postdoc. So since I was working in a group there, uh, and we had collaborators all over the world, uh, my Russian boss knew a guy from Pittsburgh who worked in the similar, like, complementary direction. So he was working in, uh, studying a phenomenon called Bremsstrahlung.5 It's a radiation emitted by, uh, any charged particles when they bend their trajectory. And, uh, in Soviet Union, there was a guy who discovered that this standard radiation can be complemented by another type of radiation which is also branch strong, but the origin of this, not the accelerating particles, but the atoms in, uh, which create the field in which those, uh, particles travel. So that was like complimentary things about the same basically physical phenomenon, but taking them from different ends, like different subjects in the same, uh, picture. So they sent me to Pittsburgh as a postdoc, to like, bridge the gap, to try to build something which would be like unifying concept, uh, unifying formalism describing this, so I was going there for one year and then it was not like, I wanted to immigrate. Claire: Yeah. It was like a temporary – Oleg: – yeah, it was like a postdoc position. Claire: Did you have like uh, a temporary work status to gain permission to live in the United States or like – Oleg: – uh – Claire: – do you remember – Oleg: – the first time we went there, I was on J-1 Visa6, which is a scientific exchange. Uh, in principle, it requires you to return to your home country and spend at least two years there. Claire: Okay. So to clarify, it's like one year in Pittsburgh and then you go back to, for two years. 5 Bremsstrahlung is electromagnetic radiation that occurs when a charged particle decelerates due to deflection by another charged particle. During this process, the moving particle loses kinetic energy, which is converted into radiation. 6 J-1 exchange visitor visa for educational and cultural exchange programs that are designated by the Department of State, Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. �Oleg: Uh, it's supposed to work that way. It, it, there are loopholes, and I know people who somehow waived this J-1 one requirement, but on the other hand, where I work now there is a guy, uh, Leonardo. He had to return to his home country and spend their two years, even though, like scientific director of our institution wrote to USCIS7 asking this to be waived, but still didn't work. Claire: So, just to continue on with that timeline, so you went to Pittsburgh – Oleg: – so we went to Pittsburgh in 2000. Uh, originally, it was for one year and we started working, and my scientific supervisor was, uh, relatively happy with me. So he actually offered me to, uh, switch my position from this visiting, whatever it is called fellow something. And I said no, we want to go home. We agreed. Uh, but he couldn't find any suitable candidate to replace me. So we had to stay there longer. So instead of one year, we spent, stayed there, year and a half, maybe. Claire: Year and a half. Okay. Were you, um, like, how did you feel about this movement process? Like did you want to go back to Russia or do you want to stay in the United States? Like, how did you feel at the time about, like these moves and everything? Oleg: Uh, well, I was excited to, to work in a different country in different environment in different culture, because I only knew Soviet research culture. And it was very interesting to see how people work, uh, in the United States. Claire: What are some of the differences you noticed? Right away and then also like reflecting on your work now? Oleg: Uh, here people are more polite. So, they would, even if they see that, you are, you are completely wrong. And, uh, whatever you are doing is complete bullshit. They will not tell you that. Uh, they will just keep silent, they will say okay, and uh, yeah, they will not even try it later on to approach you well, some of them who would but, uh, only if they like know you. If it is a complete stranger and he tells me something wrong, I wouldn't argue. I would just keep, I would say to myself, forget about it, it's like, wasting two hours for this seminar. In Russia is much more direct and aggressive, so they would start arguing with the speaker. And sometimes it's even counterproductive. For, I don't know if a speaker devoted one month saying that this assumption and that assumption, uh, hold, and then the person who comes to a seminar listens to that first time, he starts arguing that those assumptions don't hold. And, uh, you know, the person said, you know, I studied this and I know this, (laughs), it's true. Uh, but, so in a sense, it is more, 7 USCIS is the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services. This is a government organization that oversees aspects of immigration related to obtaining citizenship and VISA status. �uh, (pause), it is more direct interaction in Russia than here. On the other hand, uh, (pause) on the other hand, people here (pause) probably, uh (pause), eh, so, on average, so average person here would (pause) spend more (pause) time working. Uh, (pause) no, so, you know, it's not, you know, apple to apple comparisons.Where I worked with there was like a place for fanatics. So people there would come to work with I don't know, with, uh, fire in their eyes, and they want to do that and they will. I myself, like slept in the office on put together chairs because I didn't want to spend time going home even though I lived like 15 minutes away. Uh, so those people would work harder than the average Western scientist, but there are people who would come like, two days a week for, I don't know, for several hours, just to you know, be around the scene and they will leave and they will not care about anything. Claire: Hm. Interesting. Oleg: But I don't think it's comparable. It's different time, different place. Different culture. Claire: Yeah, definitely. Could you talk a bit more about like, the culture of the United States that surprised you outside of your work environment. Like is there anything, I know it's not like super comparable, it's very different, but any like shocks or surprises? [Section of transcript cut out as someone came into the room to try to use the space] Oleg: Uh, I’m trying to recall, so you interested in that moment, what I felt then? Claire: Yeah, yeah. Oleg: Well, so we lived in Pittsburgh, and it was, uh, so University of Pittsburgh, it's like in the middle of the city. It is like a university area, and there are two universities: Pittsburgh University and Carnegie Mellon. They're very close. Uh, but still, it is a city. It's not like UMD here, where you have your own campus, and nobody else here. So there it was mixed. So it was kind of city but with a lot of students and, uh, teachers and researchers. And I think what struck me at that time is– it was, um (pause) so we had a lot of like (pause), uh a lot of people (pause) feeling not free, but (pause) like relaxing, like chilling out. So people would go into restaurants; we would go to a restaurant. We had group meetings at a restaurant every week. Uh, students would like sit on the grass, uh in the park. There was like a botanical garden and, uh, we saw a lot of students there like, some of them studying, probably like here, now. Claire: Yeah, very similar. Oleg: Yeah. And it was not typical at all for us. So, uh, in Russia, they were in Soviet Union. Well, it was Russia already, but still it was like, Soviet based, uh, reality. So people would not go �to restaurants that often. Uh, if they study they would study at home or in the library (pause). If you want to party with party at home, if you want to play with your friends, you would go, you wouldn't, you wouldn't do that just on campus. So you could see people like sitting on the benches and doing nothing but they will just wait till the next, uh, uh, we call it pairs. So we had like a 1.5, two 45 minutes joined, lessons, like 45 minutes, 5 break, and then 45, and then sometimes the lecture will not even make the break. And we had like them, uh, sequential, so we will have three or four such pairs and very rarely you would have like an empty pair. Then you would like, you would have one hour and 45 minutes free and then you will probably go to, we also had like a botanical garden across the street. But it wasn't typical and I would, I wouldn't go there, I would find some quiet place and do something. Yeah, so here I felt it's more like, like relaxed. Maybe. Claire: Did you know English prior to coming here or did you learn it when you came here? ` Oleg: (pause) Well, technically, I knew English, but, uh, I could not speak. Well, I could say something. But I could not understand people at all. So whatever they were saying, it was complete music to me. I couldn't, uh, figure out where one word ends and the next one starts. So it was like continuous (pause) because we didn't just have, so all our English studies, it was, uh, more or less theoretical. So we never watched movies, uh, in school, we never talk to real people, so it was only textbooks and we will read so I, I had relatively, (pause) relatively high level, so I could build more or less complicated phrases, sentences, but, uh, understanding was almost zero. Claire: Did that ever influence like your work aspect? Like when you first came here for your postdoc or like anything about navigating the city or anything like that? Oleg: Yeah, of course. Uh, sometimes, so my advisor was, he is a quite generous and kind man and he tried to help us. So he put us in his house. Claire: Oh, that’s nice. Oleg: He would, uh, he would do group meetings at a restaurant and he would pay for that. Uh, and he tried to give us tips on what to see, how to get there. Uh, but I remember many times when he would advise us to do something. And then, uh, when we started doing that, we realized that actually it's not like he, we thought told us and then it turned out that we just misunderstood him. Claire: Hm. That's interesting. How fast were you able to pick up the language then? Like, when do you feel like you were fully, like, able to learn how to understand people better? �Oleg: I still don't understand people sometimes. I cannot understand, uh, any songs which I hear on the radio. I can pick up a few words here and there, but, and then in American, or I don’t know, English music is completely different from Russian. So here you have very, well, I don't know about rap and such stuff, but even regular songs like pop music, they have very complicated sentences with no rhymes and, uh, so there are some, but it is very hard to do that. So Russian music is much simpler. So you have, uh, all your, you have rhymes, certainly. And then all your words would fit into music very, very easily. So they complement each other much better. It's much simpler. Claire: That makes sense. Oleg: So I still don't understand and when southern people talk I also understand 30% (laughs). Claire: (laughs) that’s fair. Um, I was wondering if you could, like extending the timeline a little bit more so, you came here for postdoc and then you went back to Russia after like a year and a half – Oleg: – Mhm – Claire: – when did you come back here again? Oleg: Ah. Yeah. So we went, (pause) actually, it was my wife who wanted to return, so for her there was no question that we coming back because she's very attached to her family. And I was more flexible. I didn't care much. I didn't like, really wanted to stay. Claire: She wanted to return to Russia? Oleg: She wanted to return to Russia, and I was more or less ambivalent and I would say we can stay here, we can go home. Don't care much. Uh, so we returned home and then, uh, (pause) I returned to my work and, uh, we had a group of people, uh, and we were more or less friends. And once I came, a guy at work told me, you know that (pause) so (pause) well here you have to apply for grants. Uh, so we had like stable salary, but if you want to go to a conference, if you want to buy some extra equipment or even if you want to increase your salary, you have to apply for grants. Uh, so it was like I don't know, I arrived like one week ago and I'm in our office and we shared an office. Uh, there were like three of us. Uh, and he told me, you know that, uh, now it's close to deadline for grant application for NSF NATO award and it's only two pages and, uh, basically they only look at your achievements and recommendations. So you don't have to go into details about your scientific program or project you're gonna work. So it was, uh, in bureaucratic terms, it was quite easy. So you have to describe your achievements, people you want to work with, and your like, the general idea of your project. And, uh, that’s it, like two �pages maybe. And he said, Why don't you apply for that? And since I just came, and I said why? And he said they will give you money and then the chances are very, very little, very small, because they give out only 20 awards per year for all, uh, fields. It's like science and arts and everything. But he said, uh, you have to play many stage games so you’ll win in one of them. So he said just do two pages, ask your professor Pratt to write your recommendation letter. And I did that and I did not expect that I would get it. So it wasn't like planned. Yeah, I didn't think I would get– the chances were, uh, almost zero– but somehow I got this grant and then, uh, once I get it, of course, why not use it? Yeah. So it took us, uh, so we came back in 2001. (pause) I think it’s like, took us a year for this project to be approved, and then all this bureaucracy stuff. So I think we came back to the US after one year, like in the late 2002. Claire: Okay. Where did you move to in the U.S.? Did you go back to Pittsburgh or somewhere else? Oleg: Yes. So, since it was– the project– a continuation of what I was doing in Pittsburgh, and Professor Pratt wrote me a recommendation letter and some of his friends. So it was, of course like, natural to go there. Claire: Yeah. Makes sense. Um, how did you feel about moving back to the United States? Oleg: Uh, I did like the idea. So, uh, so while we were here for the first time, as I mentioned, Professor Pratt, was very generous and kind and he helped us a lot and he would organize for us all sorts of things that we enjoyed staying here. So, for example, if we had a conference, he would arrange that we would rent a car, and then we would drive, and the conference could be in Texas for example. So we will drive, uh, in that car from here, well from Pittsburgh, to Texas or to Colorado or whatever. And, uh, (pause) he will say don't rush. Take your time drive carefully. You'll look at whatever you find on the way and then uh, when, when we wanted to travel, like we bought an old car and he would let me go like for one weekend. We would drive to Florida. So, I knew that can get a lot of interest and stuff. And I knew the guy and I liked him. I still like him a lot. So I was – Claire: – You were excited? – Oleg: – Yes. Claire: That's cool. Um, how long were you in Pittsburgh for this grant project? Oleg: Uh, again, one year and a half. Claire: About a year and a half. What did you decide to do after that? �Oleg: Uh, at that time, well, we decided to return to Russia. Uh, at that time, uh, my son was born, uh, and actually, so my project was for one year, so I got decent money, $42,600. It was grant for everything. So that was my salary. And it was, so my salary was like $30,000 and then I had $12,000 for conferences and stuff. And that was much more than I had when I was a postdoc. So when I was a postdoc, uh, so they, at the University of Pittsburgh, they had some, uh, fixed stipends. I don't know how they call it, (pause), uh, like fellowships, and it was, I don't know, like $10,000 a year. And I, when I, just, uh, when we were discussing it before we went, I asked some of my friends who, so my, uh, few of my, uh, school friends emigrated and I asked them, so what do you think, can we live off 10,000? And they say, Absolutely not. So anyway, I asked them to increase and they, I think the best they could do was $12,000 a year. And there were two of us. And it was quite hard. So we, had I remember, we were buying this bread for 67 cents in giant, which is like was the cheapest one and you could, you know, press it into a small bowl. And we would eat, uh, ground meat, like with pasta all day long, because it was the cheapest. Uh, but still, and then I will get more money and it was for one year. Uh, but then, my son was born and he was very young. (pause) So he was born in November. Yeah. So, uh, he was born in November. So, he basically was born when my grant, uh, expired. Yeah. So we asked for an extension, and, uh, the NSF, or NATO, probably it was NSF, so they said you can extend but we will not give you more money. So, uh, my professor had to come up with some, uh, financing. But we still are grateful to him [the professor] because he [the son] was very, uh, young. And we didn't want to travel with our newborn child. So we stayed till May 2004Claire: – Okay – Oleg: – No. Four, yes. Claire: And then you went to Russia. Oleg: So we went back to Russia. Claire: Okay. How long were you in Russia then? Oleg: Uh, I personally was in Russia for (pause) four months? It was 2000, it was 2004. So we came in, like in May, (pause), uh, and I got sick, and I got into, uh, these hospitals specialized in infectious diseases. And they couldn't figure out what with me and I stayed there for three weeks or so. Uh, and then I returned to work and I didn't like it a bit. Not, not the work but like – Claire: – the environment? �Oleg: Yeah, so I got used to American style of life. And when I came back, I didn't like all these Russian realities. Uh, ao I wasn't quite happy. And then in, uh, August 2004, uh, head of my Russian group, so he was collaborating with many people, I mean, our group, so we had like joint, uh, research projects. So one of the research directions was connected to Pittsburgh, but the other one was connected with, uh, research of, uh, Walter Greiner8, and he's actually very famous nuclear physicist who predicted, uh, super heavy nuclear to be stable. So all this, uh, acceleration experiments, where people collide, uh, heavy nuclei, what they try to achieve, they want to check if his prediction. So, you, is correct. So what you have, so our Mendeleev table, you have, uh, elements from one hydrogen and then you go to, I don't know, 90s, where you have very heavy elements and they become unstable. So when you have uranium, plutonium, they are radioactive and they spontaneously decay. So you cannot have them, uh, for a long time. So they have, their not nuclear are not stable. And if you go to even higher the decay even faster. So if your uranium can, depending on the isotope, uh, some of them stable, but some of them are not. If you go to higher, you cannot find anything. So people achieved, look at 107, highest charge of the nucleus, but it was very short lived when they collide in the in the, uh, collider particles, if you go to higher, so what he predicted that, then you can reach an island of stability. So if you go to like 130, then those, uh, elements will be stable. So he was quite famous because of this work. And he was influential enough to, uh, start a new institute. So he worked at Goethe University in Frankfurt, uh, and uh, he wanted to start a new institution, which would be like partially affiliated with University of Frankfurt, but partially independent. And he joined forces with another guy, who I don't know, he, I don't even remember his name. He's like neuro, neurosurgeon and neuroscientist, something with the brains. So they study how brains work and our guy was nuclear physicist. So those two guys, uh, they both like were famous. And they wanted to create like, Interdisciplinary Research Center. And they started what they call Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies. And they were like recruiting people for that institution. And since our group collaborated with Walter Greiner, he invited my, uh, group leader Andrei Soloviev, to be research fellow, which is basically like full professor there. And he said, uh, suggest me a couple of like low ranking people who we put in right. So, uh, Andre called me– he was in Frankfurt at the time– he called me and said, we are doing this, would you like to join us? Uh, and I said Yes. And it was like very, very early stages. So, there was no even director. They were just like founding fathers, but no administrative stuff. So she said, you can come, uh if you are interested. So I went to Frankfurt and it was like, end of August to beginning of September 2004. So I spent like four months in Russia. Claire: Okay. How long did you stay in Frankfurt after that, and what type of work were you doing there? Because it was such an institution. 8 Walter Greiner was a German theoretical physicist, who spent time researching atomic physics, nuclear physics, and elementary particle physics; he studied physics at the University of Frankfurt and became an assistant professor at the University of Maryland from 1962 to 1964. �Oleg: Uh, well there we actually continued what would they have started working on while I'm on while I was in the U.S., so they started doing cluster research, okay. So a cluster is a collection of several atoms, but it is not a molecule, so you can have, I don’t know, an alcohol molecule which you might be aware of like CT, C2H5OH.9 So this is like chemical molecule where your atoms are bound by chemical bonds. Clusters, it's when you have, uh, a collection of atoms that may be bigger than molecules, smaller than molecules, but they are not, uh, chemical molecules in traditional sense, you can have I don't know 10 sodium atoms together. So it is not a molecule. It's just like a small clump of matter. And at that time, it was relatively fashionable direction, people tried to understand how you go from, uh, atoms to solids to bulk properties, atoms and bulk properties, even if the same element if you if you have sodium, sodium atom, or sodium two, which is like natural molecule, chemical molecule, uh, have completely different, not completely but quite different, uh, properties and bulk sodium, uh, and they wanted to see what goes in between and at that time, technology, uh, developed, so that people were able to create such clumps of matter. So we were, and they started doing that, and when I came back from the U.S., I like I joined the group, and I started doing that and we continue doing that in Frankfurt. Claire: How did you like Germany? What did you think of it? Oleg: I loved Germany. Claire: You loved Germany? Oleg: Yes. I like that they have such a perfect order in everything. Claire: Mhm. What do you mean by that? Oleg: Everything, I mean, public transportation, all buses, uh, spotless. They go by minute. They, uh, the streets are cleaned. People are organized. If they tell you 2pm, it is 2pm. Uh, in the offices, they, I mean, they keep their stuff organized. I mean, it's (pause) so everything is very well oiled and organized. And, uh, aesthetically, it's also beautiful and I, it’s very old and I like history. So I liked it very much. Claire: Yeah, that's cool. Did your, um, wife and kid come with you as well when he went to Germany? Oleg: Uh, not initially. So I went alone, just to see what’s, what’s going on. If it is indeed, will be finally implemented.We did not have, so the building was still under construction. So we worked in the university. And at some point we had to move, uh, so it was not clear what's going on. And 9 C2H5OH is the compound for Ethanol, which is a volatile, flammable, colorless liquid. �we just came from the U.S. My son was very young. So it was not, uh, an option for us to go three of us. Claire: Yeah. When did they end up moving to Germany with you? Oleg: I think, so I went like August to September. Then I came back for the New Years. (pause) And I think then I returned, to Frankfurt, and then I came back for them. So I think it was like March 2005. Claire: Okay. That makes sense. Um, How did, like, what was it like moving a family to Germany, now? Like now that you have a kid. Oled: (pause) Uh (pause) I don't remember any particular difficulties. Uh, my wife was very easygoing. She does not collect stuff. She's not attached to stuff and she’s uh, she can do with what she have, what she has. So it wasn't a problem. I rented an apartment, uh, and now I don't remember about furniture. (pause) Uh, we had, yeah, I got, I think from IKEA, one bed. We had one small table. One chair. And then I think that’s it. Yeah, the second room was completely empty. Claire: Um, How long were you in Germany? Oleg: Until end of 2007. Claire: Okay. Where did you go after that? Oleg: We went directly to the U.S. Claire: Okay. And this was when you moved to Rockville? Oleg: Mhm. Claire: Why did you decide to move to rockville? Oleg: Because (pause) at that time (pause) by the end of 2006, sometime after a couple of years in Germany, we understood that (pause) it is very difficult to assimilate. So it's all good. Everything's fine, but you are an outsider, and uh you’re gonna stay an outsider. There is no way you will be accepted into that culture. German culture. Yes. So that was one reason so, if, but it wasn't, like a really urgent reason.The other reason was that my son was growing up. And we started thinking where we want him to grow up. And we had basically three options. We could go back to Russia and raise him as a standard Russian kid. We could raise him in Germany, �because I had basically job, uh, stability and it was developing well so there was no, uh, reason for us to be afraid that we would need to find something else in Germany, so I would work there 10 more years and should not be a problem. Uh, so that was the second option. And the third option was to go back to the U.S. and uh, since he was born in the U.S., so he is a citizen. So the third option was to raise him as a U.S. kid. Since he already is a citizen, so why not? And we decided which country and culture would be better for him. (pause) And since we felt, in Germany, that we will not be assimilated. And, uh, (pause) yeah, he was like closing to the school age and he didn't speak German and so we decided that it is either Russia or U.S. and we chose U.S. Claire: Why did you prefer the U.S. over Russia? Oleg: We felt that, I felt that, there he will have more opportunities and the quality of life is certainly higher. So I saw that if we can do that we should at least try. Claire: Was your wife, like, in support of that decision? Or was she when you worked with her? Oleg: Uh, she was ambivalent. So she wanted to go back to be with the family. Uh, on the other hand, she saw that, indeed maybe, uh, so, I think I pushed for the more – Claire: – to go to the U.S.? Oleg: Yeah, so I was telling her, let's go if I can find job in the U.S.. Let's go there for a few years. Uh, he will learn English, he wouldn't be a native speaker. Uh, he will grow up a little. Maybe we will get green cards and then we will have freedom to move between the countries as we wish. And then we decide later, do we want to stay in the U.S. or go back to Russia? Claire: Okay, that makes sense. And you had your second son in Germany, right? Oleg: Right. Claire: Okay. So how was his citizen status, like played into this? Did he have Russian citizenship or – Oleg: – he had Russian citizenship, he did not have German citizenship. Claire: Okay, so Germany doesn't have birthright citizenship? Oleg: No, they don't. And it would require many years for him to acquire German citizenship. �Claire: Okay, interesting. Um, so how did you find a job in the United States that would like lead you to? Oleg: Ah, I'm just a very lucky person. (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) – Oleg: Completely randomly. I mean, uh, I have a group mate, uh, my one of, maybe my best friend, we were in, so in Russia, you don't do as you do here, everybody takes their own class and then everybody takes different classes, so we had the concept of groups, where you have a certain number of people, usually like 20, and then they would go together to everything. Claire: Yeah. Oleg: (pause) I don't even think we had any subjects for choice. So we couldn't choose anything I think. So it was pre programmed. Claire: Yeah. Oleg: So we would like see the same people six, eight hours a day for five years. Claire: Yeah. Oleg: So this girl, uh, she started, uh, studying in another university and then she transferred to us and she got into our group and we just befriended, uh, she was (pause) no, yeah, so she came in this in the second year. So she, uh (pause), she got married and then she divorced, and then she moved to the U.S. not even finishing up University in Russia. Of course, her mom works here. She works at NIST, or she worked at NIST, I don't know where she works now. Uh, so she, she went to UMD I think. Claire: Okay. Oleg: (pause) and she, they lived here, in, uh, in Bethesda, near Montgomery Mall. So I just called her and I said, Masha, do you know any opportunities somewhere in the US? Uh, and I actually was thinking about even changing my career into, uh, into IT. Cause, uh, so, it was, everything was fine at work. But it was very, uh, intense. Yeah. So it was very competitive, uh, so we have had this, our group leader who like he was like, full professor, and I was like, uh, one step below him. And then we got, I don't know, seven, uh, graduate student and like, four postdocs, and we had visiting scientists and, uh, it was very hard, I worked a lot, cause, so, I had to help him with all these grant proposals, uh, all this, like, social net, not social, like scientific �networkings, so I had to prepare a draft for him to send letters to different scientists. Uh, and I would be involved in organizing like, seminars and conferences. So we invited people from all over the Europe and from the US, so he wanted to be on the map. So he wanted to have a lot of communications with other groups abroad, so everybody knows him, he is like in the network. So we had to organize a lot of events. Uh, so I was doing this more or less administrative stuff. But on the other hand, I had to, uh, oversee all our students and do work myself. And when you oversee work with student, you have to not just see what he or she is doing, you sometimes need to help or even do it yourself. So I was doing like three jobs for myself for students and this and it was very hard. Uh, so I even had doubts if I wanted to continue in science, and I was like playing with this idea of why not go to IT field where money is better and work is simpler. Yeah. So my friend, Masha told me, so she has, uh, she has a friend who was married to a guy who works who worked where I work now. And, uh, she said, let me ask Tatiana, maybe Lesha may help you. So this guy, send me coordinates of this person who hires, uh, uh, uh actually, IT guys so this is mostly IT. So, we, uh, our institution mostly maintains updates and whatever, various medical databases, so they need a lot of programmers. Claire: Yeah. Oleg: So he's, she, so that guy who worked there, send me the, uh, coordinates of that guy who is overseeing, who was overseeing, hiring. And he said we hire all the time, just email him and ask if you have anything. So I emailed him and he responded to me and he send me like a questionnaire like with different programming tasks. And since I'm not an educated coder, so I did, wrote a lot of codes but scientific codes, so I was mainly interested in efficiency in terms of the, uh, how you calculate, say integrals numerically without losing precision and fast, and maybe you can come up with another method where you don't have to do it at all, maybe you can approximate it somehow. So I was coding, but it was a completely different type of coding. So she sent me this questionnaire very with coding questions like, I don't know how better memory is allocated in code A or code B, and why. (pause) So I tried to reply and, uh, I sent it. I now understand that I was completely below level, whatever, (laughs) possibly even couldn't even hope for that. But since I submitted my application, the questionnaire was probably unsatisfactory. He didn't tell me of course, the guy. But my resume caught the eye of my current principal investigator who is a physicist by education. And we are probably the only one group doing physics at that place. And he was looking for people with exactly my qualifications, so he wanted, um, quantum calculations, quantum mechanics, and uh, since it was like, submitted in and then it was like, standard procedure when they distributed, he saw my resume and he, uh, called me, we did, uh, phone interview. Then he invited me to come here for in-person interview, and then we moved. Claire: Thank you for sharing that. Um, so you haven't gone back since, like you stayed since you moved to rockville, here? �Oleg: Yeah, so we went directly from Frankfurt to Rockville. Claire: Okay, cool. Um, how was, so you mentioned that a simulation in Germany was, like, harder. Um, would you say that it's easier in the United States or like, how were you able to form a community here? Oleg: Well, it's not harder in Germany than in the United States. It all depends on the, uh, on your group. On your, uh, professor or principal investigator, yeah. So there in Germany we were trying to establish a name. So we will completely over the grid and we tried to emerge as an advanced group doing advanced stuff. And to do that you have to work very hard. Yeah. Uh, here it is more relaxed. It is government and you have job security. Uh, and there is no point in, uh, you know trying to organize a conference, because first it is the government it is not possible to do basically, resolve the bureaucracy. (laughs) Second, there is no point, if you need to talk to your colleagues, you can go to some conference and talk to them there so you don't have to push for visibility. Claire: Okay, that makes sense. How was it able, like socially, to make friends here, like were you able to form communities in any way? Oleg: (Pause) Well, here it was relatively easy. Uh, (pause) So say in Pittsburgh, we befriended a Secretary at the Department who knew our professor for a very long time, she was his personal secretary for a while. Uh, so she was invited to all our group events, so we befriended her and one guy in the group. And that was basically it. Uh, we met few Russians in Pittsburgh, while I was working too much and there was basically no time. In Frankfort, it was very similar. I actually again befriended the Secretary of the Department. (laughs) But just because, uh, I was alone, uh, and again, I was, especially first months. Yeah. And she was a German lady she was like 50 years old. And she was very punctual. And she would show up at work, like 6:55 in the morning, and I had nothing else to do and I wanted to do some science, so I would come to work also like around seven, and we would, uh, intersect like near coffee machine. And, uh, she would help me with Germany, like with sketching around and knowing what to do, where to buy things, and that developed into a friendship. But again, no locals. Yeah, but when we moved to Frank–, to Rockville here, we had two kids, and we went to all these, you know, kids' places like the playground. I don't know, like gyms. And then you have a lot of parents. And while kids are playing you stay with parents and you're forced to communicate. So this way, we did acquire some friends, and we could even pick and choose which ones we wanted. (laughs) – Claire: – (laughs) That makes sense. I guess, thinking now on like, how long you've lived in Rockville? Do you have any like, thoughts on living so close to DC or anything or like, how like, that experience is? I guess. �Oleg: That's I don't understand what – Claire: – (laughs) I’m just gonna skip that question that’s not making any sense. Um, do you have any plans for the future regarding where you live? Do you think you'll stay here? Could you ever see yourself moving back to Russia or anywhere else? Oleg: (pause) Probably not, probably not. So we got settled in here, uh, so probably will just stay here. Claire: Yeah, that makes sense. Um, I think that kind of concludes everything. I don't want to keep you too long. Um, thank you so much for allowing me to interview you today. Is there anything else you would like to share with me about your story or experience? – Oleg: – No, If you have any questions which you think like later on, you realize that it would have been nice, nice to ask him, you still can do that. Claire: Okay, thank you so much. Oleg: No problem. � https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/eb2a48c683258cf5545caa74f1a8c010.mp3?Expires=1789603200&Signature=OYcCmuKF8CuPCglKqzJiMGkcCyvkEwEzhdMzL03cRmhf7%7EKyhDjw6LatnyedB2MgBs1-xlIZ2Seuun2Ktahm5Ehauov2MA5tb3tcrGJvECYJqvb4m5dPejUV2Xcoiof4sEjyT3yUIt%7ERNqBmtmtDn4HzfZeBjNaBv%7E3SIdW3JdBxiNgRhj6%7EJAs0ysEMcFpTAw98zEJxkUk6DNaxNecZPuy2dOqfZ0zeYzAYV6QeCM%7EcGR5ifMAMHWHIPXS7WKfstnHlZoY9y330u-%7ErLw4m8noBo6acK6v4iKBg-e9Nbsft1trrID3Edml0B0Cw8R-sALWpBV%7EitafD9%7EGbmVWmxQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 80b7fa32bbb7eaf1dfb327ce8c898deb Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Claire O’Donnell Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Oleg Obolensky Location The location of the interview Rockville, Montgomery Country, Maryland, United States Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Oleg Obolensky Description An account of the resource This interview between Claire O’Donnell and Oleg Obolensky discusses Oleg’s journey from Russia to the United States in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to complete postdoc research for one year on a J-1 visa. After he returned back to Russia, Oleg then traveled back to Pittsburgh to continue his research with an NSF NATO funded grant opportunity. In Pittsburgh, Oleg had his first son; then, he returned to Russia after one and a half years after his grant expired. After four months in Russia, Oleg moved to Frankfurt, Germany to work at the Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies. After remaining in Germany for a few years and having his second child, once Oleg’s first son reached school age, his family moved to permanently settle in Rockville, Maryland, where he currently works at the National Institute of Health. By mapping and sharing his immigration journey, Oleg describes assimilation into the United States compared to Germany and living through the collapse of the Soviet Union. Throughout this discussion, Oleg discusses how he received each work opportunity as being based on “luck”, presenting a theme of things happening to him by chance. Oleg’s story offers insights into how after the Fall of the Soviet Union, scientific collaboration between scientists in Russia, the United States, and Germany worked together to bridge research. In turn, these insights reveal how each scientific endeavor influenced Oleg’s immigration story. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course IMMR400 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Colleen Woods of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Claire O’Donnell Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource April 10, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, jpeg family Germany Opportunity Physics Pittsburgh Research Rockville Russia science Soviet Union visa https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/57b6078d28e38f05fc4b4a8a26e3af87.png?Expires=1789603200&Signature=g1Sh11hFU3kS%7EvMK0b47DS6HZhQ5fm14P7iJRU9qsaL%7EUmiJ1N%7Esl7vhkptffObxyUeTqUNBm0ZriazKLPXLqL4zXQqALBJ%7EgNfAxD5a9wIElTyXcTIxVf1tbkIZxD2B%7EQj0tYYbr%7EtOHBPE%7EXwgBDMyUGlohg9oiIXisDVVHSHiOCZPE0UEEay%7E0lV1bgKJuhDMbU58lhzrQckpKxkyAiRRYx2RS09ChKEnORwIU9NPPovX%7Eb2iWr86u5lWrcckSwMdnI89oi2x9NBx8Ne2mP9HkPVmTAXgOY7gIyrnkfv4P2MOMWpD6yrid9Rkg8csoc29gbX9mheW3z3PFAfErA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2024 Interviews Description An account of the resource Spring 2024 Interviews from Prof. Colleen Woods (IMMR400) and Prof. Anne Rush (HIST 465) at the University of Maryland. Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Jannatul Mia Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nayon Mia Location The location of the interview Frederick County, Maryland, U.S.A. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Nayon Mia Description An account of the resource The interview between Jannatul Mia and Nayon Mia delves into Nayon's experiences as an immigrant from Bangladesh to America. In 1993, Nayon, a Bengali, sought a better life in the United States. He recounts his upbringing in Satbiriya, Kumilla, Bangladesh, where he endured the hardships of war, pursued his education, and worked as a diesel mechanic for over 12 years. The interview details his journey to obtaining a visa and better income opportunities upon arriving in America. Nayon's narrative highlights the significant role of family and the cultural responsibility placed on him as the eldest son to provide for his parents and siblings, as well as his own wife and children. Throughout the interview, he emphasizes the importance of family and the need to secure financial stability, which influenced many of his critical life decisions. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST465 (Spring 2024). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jannatul Mia Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 2, 2024 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Marjorie Antonio America Bangladesh difficult family money work https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/771ebe932f09443849860b1585cd4761.png?Expires=1789603200&Signature=vQ5ApbOZa%7EOJS6YBFku1cC3jHlHrufUh0tUgcNn29xKuswT5R%7E03MWEUSJ-bK1WpvfsYUs844WgEFbVVH0ALyWa8eMGF%7EhnhrZrFvjonAN0lrPF1xmk7Li4xi9DfiQmJ86GCe9iQJhtrJEegCUXFEoXd3P9zb5vmdojG15dWgiSVHxCMwCpFisxekkFVefjCZ2krrrY3HNk45UWChNFXOfcQYqVQKSztAmHr9itv%7Ex0pGgsU5cQ9YZiUPZxi-kLhS2uWCoRMxVlLnThZLDIP6UOz3xN287DsgwCRsP-Z4LcBppOYVsc6dig4hMFreTOYdVSdix1SmyLrB4lnH8caJg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 7c1eeaf73a7efd1528441acae023166e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2023 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sheisa Naderi Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mehrdad Naderi Location The location of the interview Brookeville, MD Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview with Mehrdad Naderi Description An account of the resource This interview of Mehrdad Naderi, conducted by Sheisa Naderi, outlines Mehrdad’s experiences as an Iranian immigrant to the United States. Hoping to further pursue his education, Mehrdad immigrated to the DMV area in 1979, right around the time of the Iranian Revolution and the Hostage Crisis. He explains how the timing of his immigration impacted his ability to settle into America. Through his interview, he also recounts his experience as a foreign student in the United States and the many different struggles that came along with it, specifically the financial ones. He explains the many different jobs and responsibilities he had to take on just to make it in this country, when so many others couldn’t. He asserts the importance of hard work and dedication and just how far they can get you, using himself as an example. ***This interview is restricted to the University of Maryland College Park's campus. For more information, contact the Center for Global Migration Studies (globalmigration@umd.edu).*** This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2023). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sheisa Naderi Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource March 13th, 2023 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Farsi Hostage Crisis Iran revolution student