https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/75a8a29df90355802aefe4a4880a4509.jpg?Expires=1779321600&Signature=v79tposuQMnS7%7E9KxG3hAT-cWl2HDPNI%7EsgrA4%7Elzz8m2sJVcPJTvNOVMAIk-uIad3yd%7EWiXXd4Nm-6BW5qemz6LyO7Exe1fxPGOHDt-PRtBuprHyIk2n7U-WUuJVE%7EsM-yF1QiNKah1pNWy8i4AiIjwb7xA8t4Oa2RnsKFK1WekjSoxCAgVJ1EiOVpTeLBWbyVNXwNGTSAgb0NNqEtTyVHEgVu8fZR-jsQQSWlk-YGHFMipnxQl-xauo-dgBloOWgPliAofSRgmjX7KlNL-6IH0-dKP18QDIkWTe4WIcpDKgBloPbe1z5%7ECNS%7EKcmx6FvU%7EoZPq%7EAZGqAhlDtMHLQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 4939aef8ae70ac2cb391d00a7504edf1 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/2c8f7a1f63f585f3e494e1ce271c811c.pdf?Expires=1779321600&Signature=JuzcsE7ecqmpJWRAi1vu9UKq4JSlxRCzsXz5nP8VHgWs-7POFswquy94ppjtG%7EUnFEi5NZcU63C8EV1sDseu24eZfrE6qFY0QimFjecsGNlxn9Oz9Gsp5DugaKt1tKolFZUENXJYE2EEPd%7EjOCv%7EXfJ0E%7EQdIkG0lsZlrah7WLSPdcIfOKYeU87m5Vfc9ZUNVL0w-v%7EN6Lo0X3CAJJrTN5nPbXTHomg4yavJ-0ObQyMmCrA96L-VYituvMVRypPYkTIzgwNlVUCfwAoBf6PuhYNyA6Gjjl5lqql%7Et3k4XyeGvBf1OBsMG0Zzm-AXB762nLKTaKkPwrRthw4ECOUjqQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 80cf06db14b059ba23dfbb84ca1d862b PDF Text Text 1 Transcript for Oral History Interview Conducted for University of Maryland Course Hist 428M - Spring 2021 Instructor: Dr. Anne S. Rush Interviewer’s name: Antonio J. Palas Interviewee’s name: Antonia A. Sfiriou Interviewee’s Country of Origin: Greece Interviewee’s Current Residence: Baltimore City, Maryland, U.S.A. Date of Interview: February 28, 2021 Place of Interview: Baltimore City, Maryland, U.S.A. Introduction: This interview between Antonio Palas and Antonia Sfiriou is a comprehensive look at the experiences of Antonia as a female immigrant to the United States from Greece. Born on a small Aegean island, Antonia was brought to the United States by her parents when she was very young. She details her story of leaving Greece and settling in a Greek neighborhood in Baltimore, her struggles to learn English, her ambitions to enter the healthcare profession, and the obstacles that she faced to attain her dream. Antonia’s interview shines light on the attitudes and beliefs of Greek culture on women. She recounts how her story fit and broke the mold on women assembled by Greek culture. Keywords: Greece, Rhodes, Halki, Pondamos, respect, perspective, Baltimore, Catholic, women [Snoring may be heard throughout the interview; Interviewee’s father is an oncology patient which she did not want to be too far away from.] Palas: I am Antonio Palas, interviewing Antonia Sfiriou in her home in Baltimore, Maryland. So, let’s begin. Uh where were you born? Sfiriou: I was born in the island of Rhodes which is about an hour away from the island of Halki, which I am originally from. Palas: Uh, what were your memories of Greece before leaving? Sfiriou: My memory of Greece um, (pause) uh, I was young. And I remember going to the, our house was located like, five minutes away from the beach of Pondamos [Popular beach on the island of Halki]. I remember when I was younger, my dad would take me fishing on the fishing boat, uh. Going to the, we have olive trees too, I remember that. Going with my grandparents, my mom’s mother and father, going to the olive groves. I remember multiple things. I remember really good happiness and going down, seeing my aunts, my uncles. Walking with my dad and �2 my mom. We had goats. We had lambs. There was different areas on the island of Halki that we were going through, those were fantastic memories. Palas: How old were you when you left Greece? Sfiriou: I was about six or seven years old. Uh, didn’t know a word of English. I remember my dad and my mom getting us ready. And I just thought of, okay, it’s an adventure. It’s a vacation or, you know, you’re six or seven years old. You really don’t know. I didn’t know what to expect. Palas: What was it like leaving your home at such a young age? Sfirou: Um, I felt like it was an adventure. It was a journey. I was with my parents. Um, I really didn’t know much until we came here. And that’s when it really hit me. Palas: Do you remember any of the process of leaving Greece? Was it difficult in any way? Sfiriou: I remember from what my mother and my father was telling me, it’s not like it used to be. It’s not like it used to be now. Before you would have to wait. My uncle, my mom’s brother, was here. My uncle, my mom’s mother’s brother, was here too. So, you had to actually put in an application. I remember that process from what my mom and my dad were talking, but it was a process that you had to wait for approval. And then after you get approval, then you would come here. It’s not like it is nowadays where you would come here get a work visa. My parents didn’t have that. My parents had to wait for approval before coming to this country. They wouldn’t approve them without um, immigration, coming into the United States. Nowadays, I see multiple things happening. I see people coming in, under student visas and staying here. I see people that come here and work, which I’m not discriminating. It’s just a different process now. Now you have more things that are available to immigrants, where my parents did not have any of those things. I remember, we, you know, my parents were working hard. My mom worked as a seamstress in a factory. My dad was a painter. It was just, it’s not the same as it was back then. Palas: What can you recall that you were thinking, or what was going through your mind on the trip to America? Sfiriou: I really didn’t have much I, just like I said before, I just I was with my parents. I felt secure. Um, it was unknown. I didn’t know what to expect when I came here. I didn’t know anything about America. I didn’t know anything about that. So, it’s an unexpected journey. Palas: Did you have any hopes or expectations of what you wanted America to be? Sfiriou: Not at that age. Although when I went to school, that’s a different story. I don’t know if you want me to elaborate on that. Palas: We’ll get into that later. Um, what can you remember from what it was like when you arrived in America? Sfiriou: Pure craziness. I remember arriving at J.F.K. [International Airport]. My mom holding me tight, and I was holding her tight. My uncles came to pick us up. My dad was there, I had my little sister with me. It was just, J.F.K. was just madness. It was just crazy. I’ve never seen so �3 many people compared to where our island is nice and peaceful, everybody knew everybody, then I came here, and I didn’t know anybody. And it was just like a lot of people, a lot of commotion. It was scary, at the same time, but I felt secure because my parents were, you know, I was holding on to my parents. Palas: And do you know what the reasons were that you, your family moved to America? Was it political reasons in Greece? Was it economic reasons? Sfiriou: No, I think it was just because my mom’s brother was here, my uncle was here, and my parents wanted a better life for us. And I have to say, I love it. I’m glad that we came here. It was very, very, very challenging for my parents, and for myself, coming here, um but we came for a better life, you know, just like everybody else, they come for a better life. Greece, Greece’s way of life is different. They are enjoying life where, I’m not saying that we don’t enjoy it here in the United States. But now that I’m a U.S. citizen, which I chose to be, because that’s what I’m proud to be. I have so many opportunities here than I would have gotten in Greece. Uh, my way of life here is different than it would have been there. So, I’m actually happy that my parents made that decision, even though it was hard, and it was challenging. It gave us, it gave me a new perspective on life. Something that a young woman in Greece wouldn’t be able to do. Now they can, but it’s still not as it is here. The equal opportunity, the choice of what college I want to go to, the choice of going to college, the choice of working in a great career, you know, you don’t get those opportunities. The government dictates to you in Greece, according to what you sit on exams [on your exam results], on what your profession is going to be. I shouldn’t have to have them choose what I want to do. I want to do what my passion is, what my choice is. Palas: Do you know why your family chose to settle down in Baltimore? Sfiriou: Yeah, yeah, so from what my mom and my dad have told me in the past, we arrived in New Jersey, and we stayed there for a few weeks. But my mom’s brother was there. And they just, my parents decided to come to Baltimore because there was more of a Greek knit, it was a tight Greek family here in Highlandtown. Now, not so. But before it was, everybody knew everybody; it was more of a Greek community. So, I’m actually glad that they settled in Baltimore. My dad, at that point, found a job working as a painter. My mom found a job as a seamstress. Then my grandparents came from Greece, again, with the same process that we had to wait, you know, it’s not an easy process, you have to wait about a year or so. Even more sometimes. It’s not like it is now. I mean, I can’t emphasize how challenging it was for us. We didn’t have resources like they do now. Palas: Was the American way of life at the time different from that in Greece? Sfiriou: Yes. Yes. It’s still different now. It’s still different. I’m not saying that we don’t enjoy our life here too, but the whole way of work ethic there is different than here. There’s, I feel even me visiting in Greece, there’s no respect for women, especially in higher career paths, which shouldn’t be that way at all. You know, it should be that everybody should be treated equal and respect each other. But they don’t have it there. They don’t have that work ethic. I mean, they have a strong work ethic, like they work really hard. And it’s not everybody. It’s just, it’s a �4 different dynamic. I can’t explain it unless, unless you live it. I am more Americanized than Greek. My sister, on the other hand, is more Greek than Americanized. Palas: So, after you came to Baltimore, you settled down, moved in. What was your childhood like? What, what memories do you have of living here in Baltimore as a kid? Sfiriou: Oh, fantastic memories, fantastic. Um, I wish those memories could come back. (begins to get choked up) It was great. My parents didn’t spare us, they worked very hard for what we had. And they actually gave us an opportunity to progress in this life. To make it better for us, and I think they did. For me, I have to say, I’m very grateful. They gave up so much for us, so much. My mom working hard, nonstop in the factory. Those conditions in the factory are so different than they are now. Um, my dad working nonstop. So, but they never said no to us on anything. We never went without food, we never went out, you know, without clothes. They gave up what they needed for us, for my sister and I. And it was very hard. I mean, those fantastic memories. But it was hard in that school, it was very hard. I remember my mom having to pay tutors because it was so hard transitioning. When I came and they put me in first grade, I actually had to stay back a year, because I couldn’t understand. They didn’t take the time. I think the public-school system didn’t have translators. They did not have all that stuff. I remember going to the doctors where we would have to translate for my parents, where nowadays it’s not like that, you know, there’s laws that are implemented. Now, um, in the past that was it. But I have to say, nothing, we didn’t go without. We did everything, they put us in Greek School. Of course, we had to keep the same Greek traditions which was very hard going full time school in American School and then going to Greek School also. And then Sunday School, and then do all the extracurricular Greek so we wouldn’t be without knowing where we came from. So, to me, I had wonderful young memories, wonderful, because we never went without. They made it fun for us. Palas: Can you recall any specific instances where language was an obstacle for you in school? Sfiriou: Oh multiple! I remember, yeah it was extremely difficult. I mean, in my opinion, they should have had other things put in place in the school district, especially after my parents were paying tax dollars. And they should have implemented a lot of resources. My mom had to pay, work extra, and pay a tutor to help me with school. Um, I mean, I shouldn’t have to be kept back without helping. I mean, I remember being in a public school until third grade, and it was a very, I had to work so hard. I mean, endless times working and studying late until my mom transferred me to Our Lady of Fatima Catholic School. And that’s when I just flourished. I, they took the time, I remember those nuns taking the time, um to teach me, to help me read. Um, there was always extra time within that eight hours of being at school that they took that time, that extra half an hour having that nun help me to understand what each word was. I’ve never um felt so secure than I did in a Catholic school. But the public schools I have to say were, (sigh) were horrible, horrible. They didn’t understand the cultural aspect of it. Yes, they had a lot of Greek kids and, but the Greek kids that were here were already living here. I came from Greece and automatically placed in first grade. Do you know how hard that is? It’s very challenging, very challenging for a young person to read and to not understand and then, it’s hard. And not only that, but some of the teachers did not have that education and the cultural understanding of, you �5 know, how the family dynamic works. Like, yes, I go to American school, but I also have Greek homework that I have to do. And there was times I remember that I sitting for a test and I would write Greek instead of English. So yeah, I have to say, I think the public school system failed me. They could have easily helped me out or having a Greek teacher, because I know there was Greek teachers there. I think, yeah, the public schools failed me, and it failed my family. Palas: How did your parents react to the public school system and their neglect, so to speak? Sfiriou: My mom was upset; she wouldn’t say it in front of me. But I could hear her sometimes crying late because I couldn’t understand a word that they were telling me and then it was very hard. But I remember them conversing with my dad late at night and I could overhear. Not that they were loud, they weren’t arguing or anything, they were just conversing. And that’s when they made a decision that I transferred to Catholic school, even though they couldn’t even afford it. But they went without, for themselves, just so I can get a decent education and my sister. And that’s when I, like I said, I flourished in Catholic school. It was a smaller environment, they were more compassionate, they took the time out to understand. And they, I saw a lot of other kids, there were some Asian kids and some different kids that they took the time for every single one. They understood diversity, they, you know, that’s why in a young age, I understand as an immigrant coming here how important it is to have that other individual understand what you’re trying to explain to them. I think it’s very important for you to understand the different cultural aspects and what different cultures beliefs are, and you have to just go with it. Palas: Did language affect your social life in any way, making friends around the neighborhood or anything like that? Sfiriou: Oh yeah! My parents were, they did not let me socialize because they were so scared. Um, especially in grade school, with anyone who wasn’t Greek, like we had no non-Greek [friends], until I went to Catholic school, and I went into high school. And then my mom started trusting people. And I had really good friends that were Italian. There were a few friends from Spain. So, then it started getting better. But they still had us close, like it was still close knit, we weren’t allowed to do a lot of things. Because they were so, my parents were so scared. Plus, it’s also that Greek cultural, old mentality that the girl should stay home, you don’t do what, you know, there’s no need [for girls to leave the home]. Like, let me give you an example: Halloween. Yeah, we would buy costumes, they would buy us candy, but we weren’t allowed to go trick or treating. So, (laughs) I couldn’t understand the fact that I could get a costume and go to school dressed up, but then I can’t go trick or treating. And seeing all my friends go trick or treating (laughs). My parents would think that they would poison us. Like, that’s how scared they were. So, um yeah, I remember sneaking out one year (laughs), and my sister and I, when everybody else was leaving, trick or treating in our neighborhood. And finally, I remember this old lady next door she goes, we don’t have any more candy, but here, here’s some frozen steaks. (laughs) I’ll never forget it. And some pennies rolled up. I’m like, what are we gonna do with this, we can’t go home now with this. (both laughing) So we had to throw it out. So, it’s just some of the things that you do. It’s just funny. Yeah, so they would buy us, I’m telling you, we didn’t go without. We would get a whole bunch of candy that my mom and dad would buy, and �6 Halloween costumes. But what’s the point of getting dressed up if you can’t go trick or treating to experience that? Palas: So overall, would you say that your parents being really old-fashioned Greek was an impediment on your social growth? Sfiriou: No, I embraced it. But I also um, I also taught them to have an open mind about other people and trust other people. And just because they’re not non-Greek [not Greek], and that’s when they started learning. Palas: How so? Sfiriou: Like my friend Gia, they had to meet her parents and my mom knew some Italian but not a lot. My grandmother did, my grandmother, my mom’s mother who lived with us. But she had to like, you know, she had to feel them out. She had to know where the families were before we could actually go and socialize. But again, it didn’t impede my social life at all. Palas: Did your parents ever learn English fluently? Sfiriou: My dad um opened up a company, a painting company, he did well. And yes, my sister helped him a lot, and so did I. But he understood, and he could communicate with other people. He had a lot of government jobs [Government painting contracts]. And you know he really did, he had a successful business. My mom on the other hand um, so my dad had a successful business, and then he became uh an American citizen too. But I think I was the first person who became an American citizen first. (laughs) And then the whole family became an American citizen. My mom did not. Um, I don’t know why she just, she didn’t have to learn a lot of English, she could understand it, believe me. When we would talk English, she would understand it. She just couldn’t say anything. But again, I think she knew more than she let on. And she understood and she could speak broken [English], but not actually go into the doctors and understand exactly what they’re saying. Palas: Did your parents put forth a strong effort to learn? Sfiriou: Yes, they did. So did my dad and so did my mom, it’s just hard. I’m telling you, I don’t think they had the resources to learn. And just like other Greek families here, in my mom’s generation, they had the same thing. They didn’t have the resources. So, what do you want them to learn when they’re late? Like my dad had more resources than my mom. But again, it’s because he learned from my sister and me. I mean even though it was broken English, they still learned. And it’s the same with the Italian communities and the Polish community, especially my dad had a lot of um friends that were from different cultures and they were the same way. So. Palas: What effect did religion have on your upbringing? Sfiriou: Oh, religion is huge part of my upbringing. Um, we went to church and Sunday school every Sunday. We um celebrated all the holidays, all the holy holidays. Huge. My mom was a um huge Christian and so with my dad, but she was very um— Palas: Spiritual? �7 Sfiriou: —very spiritual, very spiritual. My dad not so, my mom, yes, super spiritual. And my sister’s the same way. I am too. I’m just more conservative than, my sister’s more pushy. Where I am more conservative, and I let people decide for their own what they want to do. You know, their choices in life and learn from their mistakes. Palas: So, the church was a big part? Sfiriou: Oh yes. Huge. We went to confession. We did communion we did the 40 days of fasting. We did the christenings, the weddings, everything. It was huge. Um, and it’s not just my immediate family. It was a huge part of our friends and our community, the Greek community. It still is. And I am very religious, and I consider myself very spiritual. I just don’t push it on people. I let them choose. Give them the facts and whatever they believe. It’s their choice. I can’t force them to believe in something they don’t believe in. Palas: Did the church ever play a social aspect of your life? Sfiriou: What do you mean social? Palas: Like um, so today you know how the church you’ve got the basketball teams at the church and stuff and people hang out at the church. What social aspect did the church play in your life? Sfiriou: Oh, yeah, I was part of the like the, I was, my sister was more with the Greek Orthodox G.O.Y.A. [Greek Orthodox Youth Association], the basketball. We did the G.O.Y.A. dancing. Yeah, it was huge. We had a lot, it was our little community, like our little Greek island, in the small community. We had the dances, we had the movie theaters, the church played a huge role in the youth bringing up so they wouldn’t be without. So, the church was a huge resource for the Greek immigrants. Huge. Um, learning, you know, whatever they needed, everybody pulled together. People that were um born here, the community, the church came too. St. Nicholas [Greek Orthodox Church] especially. I remember the priest there, Father George, was a huge advocate of just embracing the youth. He started a lot of the Greek youth, the basketball. So, the kids can have something to do. They had roller skating, they had movie theater, movie nights. Um, they had plays, they had brought actors from Greece, and they would sell tickets. But then it also gave to the people that didn’t have, no matter what their nationality no matter what their culture was. They had like soup kitchens, feeding the poor. So, we were all part of that, you know? So yeah, the church did play a huge role on who I am today. Palas: When your family eventually settled down in America, in Baltimore, did you feel a sense of loneliness, or was there like a community there to welcome you and to help you out? Sfiriou: No, in Baltimore, there was a community, St. Nicholas was a great community. I’m actually happy that we relocated here. Um, personally, I’m thinking of when we went to, I think it was Paramus, New Jersey, to stay with my uncle. There really wasn’t much to do. And there wasn’t a big Greek community there at all. And we stayed there for a few weeks. But thank God, we came to Baltimore, because when I came to Baltimore, like everyone on our street, understood kids that um were immigrants like myself, but there was also kids that were born here. So, I had cousins, also my dad’s side of the family, they were on the same street. So, they �8 embraced a lot of um, help us out. And we would hang out, we would do different things. So yes, they were welcoming, they would teach us certain things, you know, what’s going on in the community, how we should adapt to the American life. So yes, and it was a huge welcoming in Baltimore, especially in Highlandtown, not so much now. But it was before. And to this day, St. Nicholas, the Greek church, uh still does that. We still welcome new families that still immigrate here to the United States. And we have different [people] from different cultural backgrounds too, with intermarriages. We acknowledge each person, and we love them on how they are. Palas: Would you say that you found more of a community in the people from the same island in Greece, or just from in general people from Greece? Sfiriou: In general, in general. There’s different, there’s people from the island of Chios, there’s people from the island of Karpathos, they’re all from different parts. There were people from the Bahamas that immigrated to Baltimore (laughs). Um, people from Cameroon, Africa that immigrated to Baltimore. So no, it’s I think, our community here. Palas: Did, growing up, did the knowledge of being an immigrant ever affect or skew the way you saw your future going? Sfiriou: Um, no. I do understand diversity now, being an immigrant. I can understand people who immigrate here now and understand what they’re going through. But um, I just wish we had the resources that we have. I mean, I wish we had the resources they have now for us. Because they definitely have more benefits. They definitely have health care access, they have people who can assist with individuals who don’t speak the language and come from a different culture and understand, you know? So yeah, it has changed me to understand what people are feeling. When they come here, their fears, their, the feeling of unknown and just making sure they’re at ease and making sure that I can tell them there are resources to help. Palas: Have you lived anywhere else other than Greece and Baltimore? Sfiriou: Um, well I lived in Albany, New York for 10 years. Um, different way of life there, that’s for sure. I went to the Church of St. George, which is also a tight knit community. They’re more Americanized than they are here in Baltimore. Um much more Americanized than how we are here in Baltimore. Much more Americanized than we are here in Baltimore, I think. But the traditions are still there. The people are friendly, you still have all the traditions that we go through in Greece. So, you know, I went to Albany for 10 years. But again, each state, each city has their own unique um stance, meaning their own identities of what they, I mean, we have three different churches here in Baltimore, and the three different ones have different identities you can tell. Most kids yeah, you go to Greek school, but you really don’t speak Greek. You speak like American Greek. I can’t explain it. It’s not Greek Greek. Sfiriou: It’s like broken Greek. Palas: Um hum, would you rather have grown up in an area that was more Americanized? Or are you happy that you grew up in an area that’s more rooted in Greek culture? Sfiriou: Oh no! No, I’m definitely happy that I’m here in Baltimore, and I was raised in Baltimore, definitely for sure. �9 Palas: Why? Sfiriou: Because I don’t think I would have had that experience anywhere else other than Baltimore. They’re more, I’m more Americanized, I mean, more Greek here in Baltimore and learn different um traditions. Where in Albany, they don’t do some of that stuff. Or in some of the churches here in Baltimore don’t have those Greek roots. Um, from the dancing, from the way, you can tell if people are from, I don’t want to say any other, but you can tell if they’re, yes, they go to a Greek church, they’re a part of the Greek community. But you can tell when they speak Greek, where they come from (laughs) because it’s not Greek Greek. I can’t explain it unless without, you know, disrespecting someone else, and I don’t want to do that. Palas: (laughs) Growing up, and throughout your life, what jobs have you held? Sfiriou: Mostly healthcare, everything has been healthcare. Um, and I don’t know why it drove me there. I think maybe because when I was going to Greece, during the summers, I remembered the healthcare access is so limited there, like there is no healthcare like we have here in the United States. And my grandmother was sick when I was younger, and I always, I don’t know, for years I wanted to become a nurse. Now I’ve finished my Master’s in Public Health. I’m more emphasizing on patient safety, and how we can um prevent any harm. Especially for people that come from different cultures and different um diverse backgrounds. Because you should give them all their options and let them decide. But also, on the medical part, you have to make sure that they understand what you’re saying. So, we have to follow the rules and um policies that have been implemented for different healthcare organizations and laws. So. Palas: What was your first job? Sfiriou: My first job, um my very first job? Palas: Yes. Sfiriou: At 16 I was working at McDonalds. Um, and then I quickly found a medical receptionist job. And then immediately after that I went into school, I went into the X-ray uh, technology program. And then from that, I was offered a medical reception, and then after that went to medical assistant school. And ever since then it was just like that until I went to New York and finished my associates in nursing. And then I went, got divorced, came back, finished my bachelors and my masters. And I took care of both of my parents while working. And also did management too in a behavioral practice with autistic kids. Palas: Were you fluent enough in the language by the time you got your first job? Sfiriou: Oh yeah, I became an Americ—because when you are an immigrant, you have a Green Card. I’ll just explain the process back then. You would have to go into this downtown Baltimore, um I remember I was 18, downtown Baltimore down at this courthouse with a whole bunch of like, you would think it was like different people from all different backgrounds. Um and you would sit there in line like you were waiting at a deli. And I just sat in my chair waiting for my number to be called. And thinking, oh, this is not happening right now. I can’t do this. So, I, while I had my ticket (laughs) in my hand, I found this sign, there was always a person there, they said if you wanted to apply to become a U.S. citizen, I said, oh yes! So, while I was waiting �10 with my sticker, I went to the little table there. And I said, nope, I want to apply right now. I can’t do this anymore. Because you had to go every like, I don’t know how many years, to renew it [Green Card]. No, that wasn’t happening with me. So, I was actually the first out of my whole family to become a U.S citizen. So, I took it upon myself, and I went, I sat, that process of becoming an American citizen was very challenging, but it felt like so good to know that I had that opportunity to be an American citizen. Palas: Was the rest of your family as excited for citizenship as you were? Sfiriou: Yeah, my dad was, he got his afterwards. A few years after. And my mom at that point, became very ill, so, she couldn’t even like sit for the test because she had multiple strokes. But um she had her Green Card, and we renewed everything. But my dad was so excited. I remember my brother-in-law was helping him with the test, and he was so proud when he became an American citizen, he was holding his flag, he still has that flag. He’s just so proud to be an American citizen. I mean, it’s a huge accomplishment. It’s a huge honor that you can apply for it. Palas: And what about your sister, was she as excited or was it more of something that, you know, you just kind of did? Sfirou: My sister on the other hand (laughs) was more like my mom’s mentality. I don’t want to become. I said, well, you have no choice. Your whole family’s American so I suggest you go sit for your test, because you’re gonna have issues. So, then after she, you know, just smooth it over and I gave her all the options. And she’s like, yeah, I’m gonna go for it. So, she finally went for it. But yeah, she was happy when she became an American citizen. But again, she’s really Greek at heart. You know what I mean? But me on the other hand, I’m more Americanized than Greek. Like, I am proud to be an American, like when I go to Greece, um I have dual citizenship, but I am definitely happy to come back to the United States (laughing). Palas: So, would you consider yourself American, or Greek, or Greek American? Sfiriou: American Greek. Palas: American Greek, so American more than Greek? Sfiriou: Oh yeah. The United States gave me so many opportunities that I would’ve never had in Greece. So many opportunities and choices that I made that I would’ve never had the opportunity in Greece. Palas: So, your sister having the opposite mentality, do you think that that strained your relationship at all growing up? Sfiriou: Not strained, well I mean, like, siblings are siblings, but yeah, we have different perspectives. And I think kids see that. Um, definitely different perspectives with the way of life in Greece versus here. You could tell, even my family in Greece could tell, your sister’s totally Americanized. Or like when I go one vacation, I just want everybody to leave me alone because I’m going on vacation. I’m going to sit there and read a book. I work very hard to enjoy my life when I go to Greece, right? But there their mentality is so different. And I can’t explain it, unless your actually lived in the United States and lived in Greece. And people that lived in the United �11 States and relocated to Greece understand what I’m telling them, like they get it. My sister on the other hand, enjoys the way of life there. Me, I fear the life down there. (laughs) She enjoys it where I fear like, I just want to go on vacation and leave and come home. Do what I have to do. \ It’s just different from their banking to their banking hours, to them, let me give you an example, like I go to the bank to do something or pay taxes down there or whatever, and you actually have to wait in line. And when they are drinking their coffee, and they’re closed at two o’clock, that’s it, you have to come back the next day and wait in line again! So, you have to keep doing that. And make sure you’re the first in line to get done. Where here, you don’t do that. There’s respect about other person’s time. Palas: It’s a more relaxed and leisurely like— Sfiriou: Laxed! A lot leisurely! And that’s just all of Europe. It’s not just Greece, it’s Europe. Italy is like that. Spain’s like that. I mean, I have friends that are from Spain, and I have people, I have really good friends there from the Island of Dominica and Dominican Republic. So yes, I think different countries are different than the U.S. [Background noise of an air conditioning unit stops, and the room much quieter from this point until the end of the interview.] Palas: Um hum. So, growing up, did you feel you had a responsibility to hold on and continue the Greek culture at all? Sfiriou: Yes, absolutely. Um, it’s always a responsibility when you’re a Greek to uphold the Greek traditions and the culture and where you came from and continue uh your parent’s legacy and your ancestry. I mean, that’s just part of you. That’s part of your culture. And I wouldn’t have it, I mean, I’m proud to be Greek. Don’t get me wrong, I’m very proud to be Greek. It’s just, I don’t believe in certain Greek ways. I believe there’s different ways of doing things. And it’s not just the being narrowminded, and you just have to be objective, you know? I just feel like you have to be objective, you can’t just put um horse blinders, you know, you have to look at all aspects and what opportunities are available. Um, like, let me give you an example: I go to Greece, I do different things. But they’re like, oh, well, that’s not the way we do it here. Well, okay, just the way you do it here doesn’t mean that its always the right way. There’s different ways of doing things that um can be better. But sometimes the Greek mentality is, oh, Greece is better, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, well, if Greece was better, you guys wouldn’t be so behind. Um, you would have health care access for everybody, you would be able to um, have health care and hospitals and clinics on the island of Halki, and decent healthcare on the island of Rhodes. But because it’s a universal insurance, and because it’s a government-based um insurance, they just don’t give the good quality of care that the hospitals and the nurses here have, like being a nurse in Greece is not a good profession. They think all nurses do is clean people, and that’s it. Whereas they don’t realize that the nurse has a bigger position and a bigger role here in the United States where they’re the eyes and ears of the doctor. They are the front-line people before the doctors. They just look at you and they think it’s a disrespectful profession. They feel like a woman should have a job that’s for a woman or just stay home, be married, and have kids or they don’t realize that certain women don’t want that certain. I mean, not saying that it’s not possible. It’s just to certain people and see in different people’s lives. Um you have to go through different �12 things. I’m divorced, so they think divorce is so bad, but yet you look at other people and I have a good career. I have my own house. I took care of my parents, you know, I don’t really need that. Do you understand what I mean? Palas: Um hum, um hum. Sfiriou: They think a woman who is educated, um in other words, the men are very intimidated by a woman who is educated. But people, like I’ve met doctors down there that were educated here in the United States and they understand and are respectful of that. Where the doctors down there are not (laughs). Certain doctors they have that mentality and the way they talk to you is different too. But my sister learned firsthand when she went on vacation and she went to a hospital down there where they don’t take care of patients like they do here. Like the nurses they also have like 30 patients to one nurse. And you have to buy your own gauze, you have to buy your own medication before you get into the hospital. I mean, there’s just a lot of shady things, I think. Especially on the small islands I feel like there needs to be more um access. And I think they’re going for that. And it depends on the person who is like the mayor of the island, they have to put their community first and make sure that they have everything that’s possible. Palas: Would you say that, that sense of duty to carry on the Greek culture and traditions, was something that was more self-inflicted? Or something that your parents really pushed? Sfiriou: Oh no, it’s definitely my parents pushed. Um, but I’m glad that they did. Because when I went to New York, I sort of laxed, like I let some of the great traditions fade away. And I started feeling myself, because I wasn’t speaking Greek fluently, I was starting to lose that. So, I definitely, I didn’t like it. But I’m happy that my parents pushed me. Even when I came back and relocated, I’m happy, because I started feeling like I’m losing all the culture, all that close-knit communities. Um, (pauses) so I’m actually glad that my mom and my dad pushed me um more, and my sister, because she can become very overwhelming and pushy, um pushing me back to my Greek roots. Palas: Knowing that you come from a culture that’s very traditional, and uh especially when it comes to women and their role, has that affected, especially growing up and knowing that you come from this culture, has that affected where you wanted to go into the future? Sfiriou: Yeah, it was very conflicting. Um, because when you’re young, all you’re taught is, okay, yes, you’re going to have a good job. But you really need to get married, you really need to have children, you need to be at home, be a housewife. And me deep down, I really didn’t want any of that. Like, but, I was still going through the motions. So, and they were really pushing about you getting married before 30, pushing, pushing, pushing. Me, I wanted to be educated, I always wanted to learn, I always wanted to be my own. My sister got married before. And then, of course, in the Greek culture, the, the eldest first gets married, whereas my sister got married first, and then she had kids. Palas: She’s younger than you? Sfiriou: She’s younger than me. She’s three years younger. But I was happy for that. I didn’t have a problem with that. It’s just that um, I wanted different things. She wanted to do the whole �13 Greek thing. Me, on the other hand, I just wanted to go to college and just be career driven and not need anybody. I wanted to stand on my own two feet and not worry about depending on a man. That, I have to say my dad, like yes, my mom was pushing, and I could hear them arguing sometimes, why are you telling her? Well, I’m letting my daughter not depend on a man, that’s good. And so, my dad kind of taught me and gave me strength to like do what I wanted to do. Of course, he was scared to say it in front of my mom. (laughs) Um, but like he would teach me you don’t need to have a man. You need to be your own and not have to depend. Like and I’m so glad that I listened to him because me getting married, and I’ve been in a bad relationship, and I was really contemplating for 10 years, I was, 10 years we were dating, and then 10 years I was married, and I was miserable, miserable. I was away from my family; I missed my family. I’m very close knit to my family, my sister, the kids. So, it was very hard for me, very, very, very hard for me. Because he was more Americanized, but he was Greek also. But he wasn’t, he was just um (pause) he had issues, like psychological issues. Um, so that gave me the opportunity, thank God, that I finished school, graduated, because he wasn’t happy with that either, when I went to college, when I got accepted at um Maria College for Nursing. Even though he said he was proud of me, he really wasn’t. He was just feeling um very intimidated, I could tell. That I was educated, and I really did not need him. Um so that, to me, that shows how um a man in the Greek culture, not all men, again not all men, but some men in the Greek culture are very intimidated. Instead of being happy and proud of having a wife who’s educated and has a great career, uh they’re intimidated by their success. And in Greece it’s like that too. So, in that aspect, I’m not happy when I go to Greece um when I see that, because they look at me in a different, I could tell the way when they talk to me, not all the modern, the educated people, but the uneducated people. And you could tell the narrowmindedness, oh, oh your divorced? Oh, you’re by yourself? Oh! I said, you don’t need to feel pity for me. You do not feel sorry for me. I have more than what you guys have done in your whole lives. So, I think they’re kind of narrowminded because I don’t have children. But I have my niece and I have my nephews, and to me, that’s all I need. Palas: If you could go back and have stopped your family from coming to America, would you? Sfiriou: Heck no! My sister yes, me no. Um, I love the fact that they had guts to come to a different country, start all over, because we were well off in Greece, start all over from scratch, from nothing, and to establish and create something precious, that’s what you come to the United States for, it’s to build something better. And I, believe it or not, my parents were very proud, very proud that I accomplished everything. (gets emotional) And it’s deep down I’m very proud that I accomplished everything because not everybody does it. But now I’m so happy that I came to the United States because I can tell you, when I’m in Greece, I think I would’ve not been around. I would have been stuck in those narrowmindedness um disrespectful attitudes that they have and wouldn’t have an open mind of other different cultures or diversity, or respect that everybody deserves and everybody um needs to have time to prove and have those opportunities in life. I’ve seen people that finish with all these degrees, like a friend of mine finished psychology, and she works so hard, and never gets acknowledged for the hard work that she does. So no, I am definitely happy that I’m here in the United States. And definitely happy even though it was not easy, but it was very hard, and it was very challenging for myself and for my parents. But I’m glad that they gave me the opportunity to create something special here. Most �14 people don’t even get that. And I’m happy that I had the opportunity to become a U.S. citizen because, whoa, that immigration process was crazy. Crazy. I mean, it’s different from the way I’m telling you and different for you living it. It’s frustrating. It’s um, you just feel like you’re in an assembly line. It’s horrible. It’s a horrible feeling. I mean it’s streamlined now. For me when I had to renew my mom’s citizenship papers, um it’s definitely better. But man, when I was 18, I’m what 49 now, it was not easy. It was really bad. So, I’m glad that I had that opportunity to actually become a U.S. citizen. And I don’t regret that one minute. Palas: Are you proud that you come from a country like Greece? Sfiriou: I am proud. I am proud of my family. I am proud of everything that Greece stands for. I’m proud of our Greek culture and our heritage. Um, (pause) but um, I’m sorry what was the question again? Palas: (laughs) Are you proud that you come from a country like Greece? Sfiriou: Yes, absolutely! I’m very proud. But I’m also proud to be an American. Heck yeah! Um, but Greece has so many like beautiful places, and different whole traditions, that it’s from one island to another island that has different traditions. And there’s so many things that I still need to learn. Um, but when I go down there, I’m so limited because I only have like two weeks to go. And by the time you finish the Greek stuff, is what I’m saying, like I come back frustrated, because I still, when I go down, I have to meet up with accountants, I have to meet up with the taxing department, I have to meet up and pay, you know, everything. And even when you’re doing it here in the United States, and paying there, it’s so different. I mean, their system sucks. So, I’m happy that I’m Greek, but I’m proud to be an American. Palas: So, when you go down there for vacation it’s more of a chore instead of a vacation. Sfiriou: Yeah, it’s more like a burden than a vacation. Because the whole week I’m running around doing stupid stuff instead of relaxing. And then by that time I’m so frustrated. Plus, I am very like, like the example um, I went on vacation to do uh snorkeling. So, the difference between the United States and Greece is there’s not protocols or policies. Okay, so I go onto this, this boat for scuba diving, but yet, there is no safety jacket, there’s no um railing to it when you get out. Like he just left me in a cave to swim like I want to say half a mile, so he can come under the cave or the cavern to pick me up, in the middle of the ocean! Um, here in the United States, you would not leave your passengers uh to swim without you having safety protocols and policies. This is what I’m telling you is their policies and protocols, especially with safety, customer safety, or even people in general, they have no policies. Um, like, I also I have dual citizenship. And I can vote in Greece, but yet, you have to go to another island to vote. It’s messed up, the way of doing things is messed up. It’s just when you go into the doctors, they don’t even know, I mean, not all healthcare is like that. But it’s just the small islands. So, can you imagine what these small communities are going through? With not having these policies implemented. That why I can’t do well in Greece. I don’t do well, there is no structure. Everything to them is, oh, let’s go have a cup of coffee. I don’t want to have a cup of coffee. I want to get my stuff done and enjoy my vacation! Palas: Was it difficult maintaining a relationship with the family that is still in Greece. �15 Sfiriou: Oh yeah. It’s still hard because they don’t get, not all, not all my family, certain people, um they get it, but certain people don’t get it. Um, and a lot of my family doesn’t have a career. Most of the people who have a career like, such as mine is the men. They don’t have a college degree. Well, my cousin’s wife has an economics degree, bachelor’s. But she’s running a flourishing business. But not everybody’s like me. Not everybody has um, (sighs) not everybody has something that they do on their own. Like, mostly it’s their family that’s paying to create something for them, where I did it on my own. Does that make sense? Palas: Um hum. Sfiriou: Where their parents create a business and then they run it. Where I found my own job, on my own merits. I bought my own house on my own. They don’t do that. It’s like, it is different. And some, some of them understand, some of them don’t. And some of them that don’t understand, I just kind of learned to walk away now. So, they can keep talking. And I’m just walking away because they just don’t get it. Palas: Now before we finish up, was there anything else you would have liked to talk about? Sfiriou: No. Palas: All right. Sfiriou: I just have to say, I’m sorry that I’m taking care of my father and he’s in the other room sleeping because he’s just not well. Palas: So that’s what the snoring was? Sfiriou: Yes, I’m sorry. Palas: In case anyone on the interview hears it, that’s what that was. Sfiriou: Yeah, he’s an oncology patient, so. Palas: All right. Thank you so much for your time. This was a great opportunity. All right, thank you. Sfiriou: Thank you. Interview Ends � https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/16159/archive/files/5cab25810e5c6829db9504776629e007.m4a?Expires=1779321600&Signature=TOo8p73hwPrZPsieYClhvMWlEbmcSoO36NXXnWumLBQS23%7EAeRQLbpMJ0gwgVheIJkHWC46XK3q7EAZIanJD0mFKSA0yxIcacjctoRCX%7ESWcljoNp9xHc1%7EqNggznLqr05CqXZO7l8UelSl3-r-HTfC1IP6TET5PcmixJs9cYn-NhhA0XVyi1dqfWB-gFef28okediI48JObF3GaIUg9OZR6u3c4Ji7a9j29hJhhIa0q0P86n8wqdZKqs2-OJlo-RYtBLBNFz4beDSwLb2vwpe4bntpq3kGnSOERrl5wBRAD3pqRd2VLWm2F0y43GyVhUFIU-rTa-vz5oagZTQ9VIg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 358d08f53d65762d7997d1e55f742d63 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Spring 2021 Interviews Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Antonio Palas Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Antonia Sfiriou Location The location of the interview Baltimore City, MD Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview of Antonia Sfiriou Description An account of the resource This interview between Antonio Palas and Antonia Sfiriou is a comprehensive look at the experiences of Antonia as a female immigrant to the United States from Greece. Born on a small Aegean island, Antonia was brought to the United States by her parents when she was very young. She details her story of leaving Greece and settling in a Greek neighborhood in Baltimore, her struggles to learn English, her ambitions to enter the healthcare profession, and the obstacles that she faced to attain her dream. Antonia’s interview shines light on the attitudes and beliefs of Greek culture on women. She recounts how her story fit and broke the mold on women assembled by Greek culture. This interview was conducted as part of an undergraduate final project for the University of Maryland, College Park course HIST 428M (Spring 2021). This course was led by Professor Anne Rush of the Department of History, College of Arts and Humanities, and was sponsored by the Center for Global Migration Studies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Antonio Palas Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Center for Global Migration Studies Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The full rights of this oral history interview were given by the interviewee to the University of Maryland, College Park. This interview may be quoted from, published, or broadcast in any medium that the University of Maryland, College Park shall deem appropriate. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF, M4A, JPG Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 28, 2021 Catholic Catholicism education Greece Women Women's History